Gate Points & Windows of the Sky; Wiseman anomaly; Scheid book

[Guest guest]

There are, as we all know, many points with " gate " in their name (e.g. men

or guan). For instance, P-6 " inner gate " , SJ-5 (opposite P-6 on the wrist)

" outer gate " ; St-7 " lower gate " , and GB-2 (opposite side of bone) " upper

gate. "

 

BTW: I just noticed in " Grasping the Wind " , and verified as the same in the

" Practical Dictionary " - shang-guan translated as " upper gate " , but

xia-guan as " below the joint " . Isn't the Wiseman system supposed to favor

uniform equivalence of English word to Chinese character? Understandably,

preposition-like characters like shang and xia may be rendered

" above/below " or " upper/lower " , or other, by context. But shang-guan as

" gate " , and the parallel xia-guan (same Chinese character guan) as " joint " ?

Or is it by idiom/character pair? i.e. shang-guan as a single entity and

xia-guan as a different one? But they are clearly parallel, anatomically

referred names, like nei-guan and wai-guan.

 

Actually though, a point I would like to make is to highlight a perceived

tendency to nit-pick along the lines of categorical concepts in the realm

of Chinese medicine. Case in point: the " Curtains for the Windows of the

Sky " article by John McDonald. Especially having just finished (a first)

reading (of) Volker Scheid's book on " Plurality and Synthesis " in

(contemporary) Chinese medicine. The point of Scheid's book, albeit

oversimplified here, is that, examined in terms of ethnographic observation

and analysis, as distinct from category-driven interpretation, Chinese

medicine is a plurality of constantly emerging systheses of multiple

agencies, and has always been so. I.e. a modern, innovative (and Western)

interpretation along the lines of " windows of the sky " is the kind of

activity that occurs repeatedly in the traditions of medicine in/from China

(to borrow Unschlud's viewpoint). Whether it's good or bad, or by whatever

judgmental criterion, it's very much the kind of process that goes on in

the practice of Chinese medicine.

 

One may be persuaded of another " school " or " stream " (pai) of thought, such

as focusing on literal interpretations, " evidence " , " academic rigour, " and

" foundations " (as in McDonald's conclusion). To take, however, the

imperious stance that this viewpoint is the " truth " of Chinese medical

traditions also runs the risk of being caught with one's pants down.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine ,

<@w...> wrote:

> BTW: I just noticed in " Grasping the Wind " , and verified as the same

in the

> " Practical Dictionary " - shang-guan translated as " upper gate " , but

> xia-guan as " below the joint " . Isn't the Wiseman system supposed to

favor

> uniform equivalence of English word to Chinese character?

 

Many Chinese characters have multiple meanings in different contexts.

For example, the character zhi is translated differently depending on

which word it occurs with: stanching (bleeding), relieving (pain),

suppressing (cough), checking (vaginal discharge or diarrhea), etc.

PD terminology does not rigidly equate words one-to-one, it attempts

to preserve the dynamic meaning of the characters while allowing them

to be consistent and accountable.

 

Guan can be translated as " pass, " as in a mountain pass or the points

TB-5 and PC-6 (wai guan and nei guan). It can be translated as

" gate, " as in the four gates. Yet the most common meaning of guan is

found in the compound guan jie, meaning joint. In written Chinese,

two character expressions are often shortened to a single character

for symmetry and brevity. Thus, perhaps the guan in upper guan

references the point as being a gate, whereas the guan in below the

guan indicates that the point is found below the joint, which is

anatomically true in this case.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine ,

<@w...> wrote:

> BTW: I just noticed in " Grasping the Wind " , and verified as the same

in the

> " Practical Dictionary " - shang-guan translated as " upper gate " , but

> xia-guan as " below the joint " . Isn't the Wiseman system supposed to

favor

> uniform equivalence of English word to Chinese character?

 

Many Chinese characters have multiple meanings in different contexts.

For example, the character zhi is translated differently depending on

which word it occurs with: stanching (bleeding), relieving (pain),

suppressing (cough), checking (vaginal discharge or diarrhea), etc.

PD terminology does not rigidly equate words one-to-one, it attempts

to preserve the dynamic meaning of the characters while allowing them

to be consistent and accountable.

 

Guan can be translated as " pass, " as in a mountain pass or the points

TB-5 and PC-6 (wai guan and nei guan). It can be translated as

" gate, " as in the four gates. Yet the most common meaning of guan is

found in the compound guan jie, meaning joint. In written Chinese,

two character expressions are often shortened to a single character

for symmetry and brevity. Thus, perhaps the guan in upper guan

references the point as being a gate, whereas the guan in below the

guan indicates that the point is found below the joint, which is

anatomically true in this case.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

At 05:59 AM 6/22/2005 -0000, you wrote:

>...

>Guan can be translated as " pass, " as in a mountain pass or the points

>TB-5 and PC-6 (wai guan and nei guan). It can be translated as

> " gate, " as in the four gates. Yet the most common meaning of guan is

>found in the compound guan jie, meaning joint. In written Chinese,

>two character expressions are often shortened to a single character

>for symmetry and brevity. Thus, perhaps the guan in upper guan

>references the point as being a gate, whereas the guan in below the

>guan indicates that the point is found below the joint, which is

>anatomically true in this case.

 

The temporal-mandibular joint? Anatomically xiaguan is significanly

anterior and slightly, if at all, inferior to the temporal-mandibular joint.

 

Shangguan is directly above the zygomatic arch, and xiaguan is directly

below; they line up exactly vertically, above and below.

 

A teacher who is usually rather sound in his classical interpretations

brought my attention once to the above/below pairing here, in a context of

similar pairings, such as nei/waiguan.

 

As always, it's a matter of interpretation, but, in lieu of other,

unmentioned evidence to support " below the joint " (in the book GTW), it

looks like oversight to me -- not noticing the spatial, name-corresponding

relationship between GB2 and ST7, perhaps because they are there treated

separately, each in the context of their respective channels.

 

The same teacher has noted that the connect-the-dots sense of channel is

relatively modern in CM (late Song-Jin/Ming era through the present), and

is less pronounced in earlier CM, when the names were largely attached. The

organ-name plus number system we use (and the Chinese, even today, do not

use) can be seen as giving us a somewhat distorted sense of the nature of

the point-channels. Also, points have, over time, migrated between

channels, and others added; maybe even in the future (why isn't YinTang a

part of the Du channel?).

 

 

[Guest guest]

Given our modern understanding of the TMJ joint, it is easy to say

that St-7 is not below a joint. However, there is an obvious

articulation site just lateral (including the region slightly

superior) to St-7. It is easy to see how the point could be described

as below the joint from a more primitive/palpation-based understanding

of anatomy. The jaw being the only really obvious joint in the area

makes it seem like naming the point based on the joint is not

unlikely. What the original point namer had in mind, I don't know.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

I once wrote an article that discusses the deeper meaning of words such as

" guan " . I titled it " The Middle Land " and it first appeared in the Winter 2002

issue of the AOM Alliance's newsletter. I thought of titling it " On Gates,

Doors, and Butterflies " and still kind of like that title. An excerpt is below

as well as a link to the full article. - Matthew Bauer

 

 

 

 

 

" The name " China " comes from " Chin " , the name of the state whose Emperor first

unified China after conquering the fighting independent states bringing an end

to the " Warring States " period (423-221 BCE). Before that term began to be

applied to that region and its people, the Chinese referred to their region as

the " Middle Land " or the " Central Territory " . Many historians believe the

ancient Chinese called their homeland the Middle Land because they thought China

was the center of the earth. While some Chinese may have thought this way, I

feel it more likely this practice had a much deeper, and very ancient, meaning.

 

 

 

..Ancient Taoist philosophy is full of references to a mysterious middle ground,

a state of being " in between " one reality and another. This concept was known by

several different names including " divine door " , " heavenly gate " , " mystical

pass " , " divine pivot " , etc. When you consider that gates and doors are

passageways between one thing and another, it is obvious this concept is not

concerned with a physical or geographic " middle " but rather, the potential for

transformation. The traditional names of dozens of acupuncture points have terms

that reflect this concept such as Life Gate (GV-4), Jade Pivot (CV-21), Stone

Pass (KI-18), and the somewhat redundant Pass Gate (ST-22). "

 

 

 

For the full article go to http://matthewdbauer.com/articles/a01.html

 

 

 

-

Eric Brand

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:59 PM

Re: Gate Points & Windows of the Sky; Wiseman anomaly; Scheid

book

 

 

Chinese Medicine ,

<@w...> wrote:

> BTW: I just noticed in " Grasping the Wind " , and verified as the same

in the

> " Practical Dictionary " - shang-guan translated as " upper gate " , but

> xia-guan as " below the joint " . Isn't the Wiseman system supposed to

favor

> uniform equivalence of English word to Chinese character?

 

Many Chinese characters have multiple meanings in different contexts.

For example, the character zhi is translated differently depending on

which word it occurs with: stanching (bleeding), relieving (pain),

suppressing (cough), checking (vaginal discharge or diarrhea), etc.

PD terminology does not rigidly equate words one-to-one, it attempts

to preserve the dynamic meaning of the characters while allowing them

to be consistent and accountable.

 

Guan can be translated as " pass, " as in a mountain pass or the points

TB-5 and PC-6 (wai guan and nei guan). It can be translated as

" gate, " as in the four gates. Yet the most common meaning of guan is

found in the compound guan jie, meaning joint. In written Chinese,

two character expressions are often shortened to a single character

for symmetry and brevity. Thus, perhaps the guan in upper guan

references the point as being a gate, whereas the guan in below the

guan indicates that the point is found below the joint, which is

anatomically true in this case.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click

on this link

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chris,

You are correct from where I stand, but the purpose of a

dictionary is not to establish the theoretical structure of how the

channels are interpreted, but to clearly state the data associated

with it. The channels, their points/holes and associated structures

are a flowing, flexible reality. However, I don't see how this

reflects on the use of dictionaries to get a sense of viable

terminology.

 

 

On Jun 22, 2005, at 12:43 AM, wrote:

 

> The same teacher has noted that the connect-the-dots sense of

> channel is

> relatively modern in CM (late Song-Jin/Ming era through the

> present), and

> is less pronounced in earlier CM, when the names were largely

> attached. The

> organ-name plus number system we use (and the Chinese, even today,

> do not

> use) can be seen as giving us a somewhat distorted sense of the

> nature of

> the point-channels. Also, points have, over time, migrated between

> channels, and others added; maybe even in the future (why isn't

> YinTang a

> part of the Du channel?).

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 04:36 PM 6/22/2005 -0700, wrote:

>Chris,

> You are correct from where I stand, but the purpose of a

>dictionary is not to establish the theoretical structure of how the

>channels are interpreted, but to clearly state the data associated

>with it. The channels, their points/holes and associated structures

>are a flowing, flexible reality. However, I don't see how this

>reflects on the use of dictionaries to get a sense of viable

>terminology.

 

I was just surprised at what struck me as an inconsistency, having earlier

learned of a relationship between shangguan and xiaguan in terms of naming

as reflecting their relative position. Hence the surprise and impulse to

comment.

 

I don't mind getting, at least encouraging everyone to be aware of what the

Chinese is behind our words, the best available source being the Wiseman et

al material. Granting, as I think has been voiced in this dialog, that I or

anyone can use other English terms when considered constructive, while

having some basis in the Chinese terms and/or context. Anyone's usage, even

Nigel's, being in the end interpretative.