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Hi Sharon,

 

Could you please share the Matsumoto adrenal treatment protocol.

 

Speaking of blown out adrenals! I currently have a 30 year old male

patient that is stressed to the hilt, can't sleep, suffers from OCD,

suffers from depression, impotence, smokes, drinks and basically on the

fast track to a major meltdown. His job is majorly stressful, he

recently ended a significant relationship, lives alone, just bought a

house and is a classic type A personality.

 

He has the Kidney Yin pulse of a post menopausal woman and his Heart

pulse is practically non-existent with an almost excess Liver pulse.

His Kidney Yang pulse is much stronger than his Kidney Yin, but is very

wiry (a classic " adrenal " pulse), Spleen feels good, but Lung has a

" tired " feel to it. He is way out of balance energetically, which I can

feel with the pulses alone. I'm trying to get him to take herbs, modify

his diet and do some emotional work, but he just wants acupuncture. His

tongue looks pretty normal, pale red, slightly thick white coating in

the Spleen and Kidney root.

 

He was having great success with an acupuncture Dr. in Michigan when he

was visiting his mother. This doc. was using a lot of electricity and

laser on him and also seeing him twice a day sometimes. I'm trying to

get the treatment protocols this other doctor was using, but he will not

return my calls.

 

I've done an aggressive energy treatment while also tonifying Kid, Sp

and Liver. I've done Yin Tang, Ear NADA protocol, St-25, Ren-4, Ren-12,

Ren-15, Ren-17 with needles, electricity and laser plus a dozen or so

other Kidney (Kid-3, 7, 9) Spleen (Sp-3, 6, 10) and Liver (Liv-3) points

(also LI-4, SI-3, SJ-5, Lu-7, Lu-9, LI-11). He may get an hour or two

of relief after a treatment, but then gets right back into his routine.

I haven't had much success with tonifying his Yin with acupuncture (it

works wonders with some patients) and he doesn't seem too interested in

taking herbs right now even after explaining how limiting that makes my

treatments. He likes a lot of needles and strong stimulation,

basically very Yang.

 

I have talked to him about my concerns, but he is confident that I can

reproduce the great results he was getting with the other acupuncturist.

I'm not so sure as I feel he is looking for someone to " fix " him and not

taking personal responsibility for his health and wellbeing.

 

I want to help this guy, but I get the feeling that I am on a slippery

slope and that even the best acupuncture treatments in the world won't

counteract his lifestyle. I'm open to any kind of treatment that may

make a breakthrough with him. He is willing to see me 3 times a week,

and right now I am his only " positive " support apart from his mother who

is paying for the treatments, which is another possible issue. His

mother is the one that found me and after talking with her on the phone

she felt I was the best acupuncturist she talked to in the area to help

her son.

 

Thanks!

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

Suite D-35

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

Fax: (480) 247-4472

 

 

 

The points I use are a Matsumoto adrenal treatment, and I added the

notion

of getting them to connect to their stuff. I suppose any adrenal

treatment

protocol would do.

Best wishes,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Chris,

Wow what a case!

 

From what you were saying, I did get the feeling of him wanting someone to

keep him on the track he is currently running on.

 

I see that a bit too, where any tonification is just used to support the

current coping mechanism. I wonder about what I am doing in such

circumstances. For me it has felt like this person is on a collision

course, like a runaway train, and somewhere down the track he is going run

into something that his current coping mechanism is not going to be able to

handle. I suppose we could call this hitting rock bottom.

 

Now the pulses Matsumoto gives are Rapid thin and wiry, or Sinking and slow,

she calls it Master Nagano Dx for adrenal exhaustion. The rest of what

follows is from seminar notes and misses the visual of watching the

treatment process so you will probably need to feel your way. Hope it

helps!

 

Adrenal Exhaustion Protocol - trauma, infection, inflammation, surgical

procedures, drugs and medications, restrainment, debilitating disease, lack

of oxygen

Target area - Kd 16 around navel at 45 degrees (8 and 4 o'clock) - Adrenal

Reflex - Renal Artery Reflex

 

Kd 16 area may palpate as hard like a stone - especially for meds taking or

surgery patient; or it may feel tight

Kid 27 may feel tender; look for gummy feeling at interior border of the

sterno-clavical joint

When doing local needling at the navel, the more onion like layers the more

the number of treatments

 

Step 1. Kd 6, Kd 27 and Lu 5

Kd 6 usually 10 degree insertion toward the calcaneus tendon some times 90

degrees works better

Kd 27 10 degree insertion towards the manubrium of the sternum. Find the

gummy feeling

Lu 5 is usually needled 45 degrees downward with the flow of the channel; pt

can be more superior, inferior or lateral.

 

Step 2 Sp 9, GB 25 applied when Step 2 release is less than 50-60% - Dai Mai

release, and suggests a structural imbalance of abdominal muscles and linea

alba

Sp 9 is needled at about 10-15 degrees upwards with the mai flow - look for

and needle into gummy feel. If effective underlying Spleen Xu.

GB 25 is palpated and needled towards spine, at the location that relieves

umbilicus. If GB effective may suggest underlying Kd Xu.

 

Step 3 Only applied when the umbilicus is not totally released by Steps 1

and 2

At the 8 and 4 o'clock one at a time, insert to the depth of the first layer

(that onion concept written about earlier) and wait 1-2 minutes before

attempting next layer, repeat.

Stone like naval area - use moxa etc

Magnets Nth pole Kd 16 Sth Kd 27, stimulate electrically or mechanically.

(I'm not certain to what she is referring her exactly as I don't usually

find I need to go this far in the treatment also I can't give a reference to

her Nth and Sth pole in magnets).

 

 

Best wishes,

 

 

Chris said......

I'm not so sure as I feel he is looking for someone to " fix " him and not

taking personal responsibility for his health and wellbeing.

 

I want to help this guy, but I get the feeling that I am on a slippery

slope and that even the best acupuncture treatments in the world won't

counteract his lifestyle. I'm open to any kind of treatment that may

make a breakthrough with him. He is willing to see me 3 times a week,

and right now I am his only " positive " support apart from his mother who

is paying for the treatments, which is another possible issue. His

mother is the one that found me and after talking with her on the phone

she felt I was the best acupuncturist she talked to in the area to help

her son.

 

Thanks!

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

 

 

 

--

 

 

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

 

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Hi Chris - here's a first cup of coffee in the morning hit:

 

if you treat the way your patient wants, you will become responsible for his

balance, he will rely on you rather than on himself. If he were my patient, a

major treatment goal would be to get him - through the needles, through

talking, something - to see that I am not a lifestyle adjunct.

 

With all compassion for him, his Will is in overdrive and he needs to

find a way

to take responsibility for how he contributes to at least some of his health

problems.

 

I would look to his Water, his Will and try to see what part Fear is

playing in

his life.

 

Karen

 

ps maybe he would agree to take time off after a treatment - or see him

late in

the day? from such little steps...

 

 

Quoting " Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler:

 

> Hi Sharon,

>

> Could you please share the Matsumoto adrenal treatment protocol.

>

> Speaking of blown out adrenals! I currently have a 30 year old male

> patient that is stressed to the hilt, can't sleep, suffers from OCD,

> suffers from depression, impotence, smokes, drinks and basically on the

> fast track to a major meltdown. His job is majorly stressful, he

> recently ended a significant relationship, lives alone, just bought a

> house and is a classic type A personality.

>

> He has the Kidney Yin pulse of a post menopausal woman and his Heart

> pulse is practically non-existent with an almost excess Liver pulse.

> His Kidney Yang pulse is much stronger than his Kidney Yin, but is very

> wiry (a classic " adrenal " pulse), Spleen feels good, but Lung has a

> " tired " feel to it. He is way out of balance energetically, which I can

> feel with the pulses alone. I'm trying to get him to take herbs, modify

> his diet and do some emotional work, but he just wants acupuncture. His

> tongue looks pretty normal, pale red, slightly thick white coating in

> the Spleen and Kidney root.

>

> He was having great success with an acupuncture Dr. in Michigan when he

> was visiting his mother. This doc. was using a lot of electricity and

> laser on him and also seeing him twice a day sometimes. I'm trying to

> get the treatment protocols this other doctor was using, but he will not

> return my calls.

>

> I've done an aggressive energy treatment while also tonifying Kid, Sp

> and Liver. I've done Yin Tang, Ear NADA protocol, St-25, Ren-4, Ren-12,

> Ren-15, Ren-17 with needles, electricity and laser plus a dozen or so

> other Kidney (Kid-3, 7, 9) Spleen (Sp-3, 6, 10) and Liver (Liv-3) points

> (also LI-4, SI-3, SJ-5, Lu-7, Lu-9, LI-11). He may get an hour or two

> of relief after a treatment, but then gets right back into his routine.

> I haven't had much success with tonifying his Yin with acupuncture (it

> works wonders with some patients) and he doesn't seem too interested in

> taking herbs right now even after explaining how limiting that makes my

> treatments. He likes a lot of needles and strong stimulation,

> basically very Yang.

>

> I have talked to him about my concerns, but he is confident that I can

> reproduce the great results he was getting with the other acupuncturist.

> I'm not so sure as I feel he is looking for someone to " fix " him and not

> taking personal responsibility for his health and wellbeing.

>

> I want to help this guy, but I get the feeling that I am on a slippery

> slope and that even the best acupuncture treatments in the world won't

> counteract his lifestyle. I'm open to any kind of treatment that may

> make a breakthrough with him. He is willing to see me 3 times a week,

> and right now I am his only " positive " support apart from his mother who

> is paying for the treatments, which is another possible issue. His

> mother is the one that found me and after talking with her on the phone

> she felt I was the best acupuncturist she talked to in the area to help

> her son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

> Oasis Acupuncture

> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

> 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

> Suite D-35

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

> Fax: (480) 247-4472

>

>

>

> The points I use are a Matsumoto adrenal treatment, and I added the

> notion

> of getting them to connect to their stuff. I suppose any adrenal

> treatment

> protocol would do.

> Best wishes,

>

 

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Guest guest

Thanks Sharon:

 

Anne

 

Sharon wrote:

 

> Hi Chris,

> Wow what a case!

>

> >From what you were saying, I did get the feeling of him wanting

> someone to

> keep him on the track he is currently running on.

>

> I see that a bit too, where any tonification is just used to support the

> current coping mechanism. I wonder about what I am doing in such

> circumstances. For me it has felt like this person is on a collision

> course, like a runaway train, and somewhere down the track he is going run

> into something that his current coping mechanism is not going to be

> able to

> handle. I suppose we could call this hitting rock bottom.

>

> Now the pulses Matsumoto gives are Rapid thin and wiry, or Sinking and

> slow,

> she calls it Master Nagano Dx for adrenal exhaustion. The rest of what

> follows is from seminar notes and misses the visual of watching the

> treatment process so you will probably need to feel your way. Hope it

> helps!

>

> Adrenal Exhaustion Protocol - trauma, infection, inflammation, surgical

> procedures, drugs and medications, restrainment, debilitating disease,

> lack

> of oxygen

> Target area - Kd 16 around navel at 45 degrees (8 and 4 o'clock) - Adrenal

> Reflex - Renal Artery Reflex

>

> Kd 16 area may palpate as hard like a stone - especially for meds

> taking or

> surgery patient; or it may feel tight

> Kid 27 may feel tender; look for gummy feeling at interior border of the

> sterno-clavical joint

> When doing local needling at the navel, the more onion like layers the

> more

> the number of treatments

>

> Step 1. Kd 6, Kd 27 and Lu 5

> Kd 6 usually 10 degree insertion toward the calcaneus tendon some times 90

> degrees works better

> Kd 27 10 degree insertion towards the manubrium of the sternum. Find the

> gummy feeling

> Lu 5 is usually needled 45 degrees downward with the flow of the

> channel; pt

> can be more superior, inferior or lateral.

>

> Step 2 Sp 9, GB 25 applied when Step 2 release is less than 50-60% -

> Dai Mai

> release, and suggests a structural imbalance of abdominal muscles and

> linea

> alba

> Sp 9 is needled at about 10-15 degrees upwards with the mai flow -

> look for

> and needle into gummy feel. If effective underlying Spleen Xu.

> GB 25 is palpated and needled towards spine, at the location that relieves

> umbilicus. If GB effective may suggest underlying Kd Xu.

>

> Step 3 Only applied when the umbilicus is not totally released by Steps 1

> and 2

> At the 8 and 4 o'clock one at a time, insert to the depth of the first

> layer

> (that onion concept written about earlier) and wait 1-2 minutes before

> attempting next layer, repeat.

> Stone like naval area - use moxa etc

> Magnets Nth pole Kd 16 Sth Kd 27, stimulate electrically or mechanically.

> (I'm not certain to what she is referring her exactly as I don't usually

> find I need to go this far in the treatment also I can't give a

> reference to

> her Nth and Sth pole in magnets).

>

>

> Best wishes,

>

>

> Chris said......

> I'm not so sure as I feel he is looking for someone to " fix " him and not

> taking personal responsibility for his health and wellbeing.

>

> I want to help this guy, but I get the feeling that I am on a slippery

> slope and that even the best acupuncture treatments in the world won't

> counteract his lifestyle. I'm open to any kind of treatment that may

> make a breakthrough with him. He is willing to see me 3 times a week,

> and right now I am his only " positive " support apart from his mother who

> is paying for the treatments, which is another possible issue. His

> mother is the one that found me and after talking with her on the phone

> she felt I was the best acupuncturist she talked to in the area to help

> her son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

>

>

>

> --

>

>

> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hi Christopher!

 

Just a couple of practical two-cents worth:-

 

When he refuses your various lifestyle recommendations, you could try

to persuade him to make just *one* or *two* lifestyle changes that

are *very small*, but clearly identifiable and can be focussed on.

Those one or two lifestyle changes might produce a change in his

condition in a week or two and that revelation might be a wake up

call for him.

 

Another idea is to give him a guided meditation tape/CD. This might

be a great *user-friendly* way of getting him *started* in the world

of relaxation and meditation (without him having to go to a qigong

master for lessons). If his stressful job is of the executive office

worker type, you might be able to present this as something trendy to

his profession!? You know, the latest stress-busting trend, along

with stress balls and mini zen gardens, etc, etc... :)

 

All the best, David

 

Chinese Medicine , " Christopher

Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler@a...> wrote:

> Hi Sharon,

>

> Could you please share the Matsumoto adrenal treatment protocol.

>

> Speaking of blown out adrenals! I currently have a 30 year old male

> patient that is stressed to the hilt, can't sleep, suffers from OCD,

> suffers from depression, impotence, smokes, drinks and basically on

the

> fast track to a major meltdown. His job is majorly stressful, he

> recently ended a significant relationship, lives alone, just bought

a

> house and is a classic type A personality.

>

> He has the Kidney Yin pulse of a post menopausal woman and his Heart

> pulse is practically non-existent with an almost excess Liver pulse.

> His Kidney Yang pulse is much stronger than his Kidney Yin, but is

very

> wiry (a classic " adrenal " pulse), Spleen feels good, but Lung has a

> " tired " feel to it. He is way out of balance energetically, which

I can

> feel with the pulses alone. I'm trying to get him to take herbs,

modify

> his diet and do some emotional work, but he just wants

acupuncture. His

> tongue looks pretty normal, pale red, slightly thick white coating

in

> the Spleen and Kidney root.

>

> He was having great success with an acupuncture Dr. in Michigan

when he

> was visiting his mother. This doc. was using a lot of electricity

and

> laser on him and also seeing him twice a day sometimes. I'm trying

to

> get the treatment protocols this other doctor was using, but he

will not

> return my calls.

>

> I've done an aggressive energy treatment while also tonifying Kid,

Sp

> and Liver. I've done Yin Tang, Ear NADA protocol, St-25, Ren-4,

Ren-12,

> Ren-15, Ren-17 with needles, electricity and laser plus a dozen or

so

> other Kidney (Kid-3, 7, 9) Spleen (Sp-3, 6, 10) and Liver (Liv-3)

points

> (also LI-4, SI-3, SJ-5, Lu-7, Lu-9, LI-11). He may get an hour or

two

> of relief after a treatment, but then gets right back into his

routine.

> I haven't had much success with tonifying his Yin with acupuncture

(it

> works wonders with some patients) and he doesn't seem too

interested in

> taking herbs right now even after explaining how limiting that

makes my

> treatments. He likes a lot of needles and strong stimulation,

> basically very Yang.

>

> I have talked to him about my concerns, but he is confident that I

can

> reproduce the great results he was getting with the other

acupuncturist.

> I'm not so sure as I feel he is looking for someone to " fix " him

and not

> taking personal responsibility for his health and wellbeing.

>

> I want to help this guy, but I get the feeling that I am on a

slippery

> slope and that even the best acupuncture treatments in the world

won't

> counteract his lifestyle. I'm open to any kind of treatment that

may

> make a breakthrough with him. He is willing to see me 3 times a

week,

> and right now I am his only " positive " support apart from his

mother who

> is paying for the treatments, which is another possible issue. His

> mother is the one that found me and after talking with her on the

phone

> she felt I was the best acupuncturist she talked to in the area to

help

> her son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

> Oasis Acupuncture

> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

> 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

> Suite D-35

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

> Fax: (480) 247-4472

>

>

>

> The points I use are a Matsumoto adrenal treatment, and I added the

> notion

> of getting them to connect to their stuff. I suppose any adrenal

> treatment

> protocol would do.

> Best wishes,

>

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Guest guest

Thanks David,

 

Good advice. Being a hypnotherapist I have had plans on a stress

reduction / relaxation CD for some time, but the demands of family and

building a practice have so far made that not possible. I think it is

an excellent idea in fact. I think I need to make the time to get this

done.

 

During my last treatment with this patient, he came in talking about how

he has not held up his end of the bargain. He finally read a link to a

webpage (http://www.radiantrecovery.com/) that I knew could help him, if

he would only take 15 minutes to read it (before he said that he didn't

read much and so when I recommended the book, he said honestly he

wouldn't read it). Now his is going to buy the book and said he will

start the program. He also said that his smoking is probably the number

1 health issue for him right now and I would agree. He has committed to

set a date to end his smoking when he travels back to Michigan to visit

with his mom with the support of the other acupuncturist. I told him I

thought that was an excellent idea and I would support him in anyway I

could to that end.

 

Something shifted in the last treatment I did with him I think. He

realized that he has to do the work himself and take responsibility for

his life. Perhaps it was the acupuncture, perhaps something else, I

don't know. Nice to see the shift, regardless of how it occurred.

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

Suite D-35

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

Fax: (480) 247-4472

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of David

Gordon

Friday, June 03, 2005 11:51 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Adrenal treatment

 

 

Hi Christopher!

 

Just a couple of practical two-cents worth:-

 

When he refuses your various lifestyle recommendations, you could try

to persuade him to make just *one* or *two* lifestyle changes that

are *very small*, but clearly identifiable and can be focussed on.

Those one or two lifestyle changes might produce a change in his

condition in a week or two and that revelation might be a wake up

call for him.

 

Another idea is to give him a guided meditation tape/CD. This might

be a great *user-friendly* way of getting him *started* in the world

of relaxation and meditation (without him having to go to a qigong

master for lessons). If his stressful job is of the executive office

worker type, you might be able to present this as something trendy to

his profession!? You know, the latest stress-busting trend, along

with stress balls and mini zen gardens, etc, etc... :)

 

All the best, David

 

Chinese Medicine , " Christopher

Vedeler L.Ac. " <ckvedeler@a...> wrote:

> Hi Sharon,

>

> Could you please share the Matsumoto adrenal treatment protocol.

>

> Speaking of blown out adrenals! I currently have a 30 year old male

> patient that is stressed to the hilt, can't sleep, suffers from OCD,

> suffers from depression, impotence, smokes, drinks and basically on

the

> fast track to a major meltdown. His job is majorly stressful, he

> recently ended a significant relationship, lives alone, just bought

a

> house and is a classic type A personality.

>

> He has the Kidney Yin pulse of a post menopausal woman and his Heart

> pulse is practically non-existent with an almost excess Liver pulse.

> His Kidney Yang pulse is much stronger than his Kidney Yin, but is

very

> wiry (a classic " adrenal " pulse), Spleen feels good, but Lung has a

> " tired " feel to it. He is way out of balance energetically, which

I can

> feel with the pulses alone. I'm trying to get him to take herbs,

modify

> his diet and do some emotional work, but he just wants

acupuncture. His

> tongue looks pretty normal, pale red, slightly thick white coating

in

> the Spleen and Kidney root.

>

> He was having great success with an acupuncture Dr. in Michigan

when he

> was visiting his mother. This doc. was using a lot of electricity

and

> laser on him and also seeing him twice a day sometimes. I'm trying

to

> get the treatment protocols this other doctor was using, but he

will not

> return my calls.

>

> I've done an aggressive energy treatment while also tonifying Kid,

Sp

> and Liver. I've done Yin Tang, Ear NADA protocol, St-25, Ren-4,

Ren-12,

> Ren-15, Ren-17 with needles, electricity and laser plus a dozen or

so

> other Kidney (Kid-3, 7, 9) Spleen (Sp-3, 6, 10) and Liver (Liv-3)

points

> (also LI-4, SI-3, SJ-5, Lu-7, Lu-9, LI-11). He may get an hour or

two

> of relief after a treatment, but then gets right back into his

routine.

> I haven't had much success with tonifying his Yin with acupuncture

(it

> works wonders with some patients) and he doesn't seem too

interested in

> taking herbs right now even after explaining how limiting that

makes my

> treatments. He likes a lot of needles and strong stimulation,

> basically very Yang.

>

> I have talked to him about my concerns, but he is confident that I

can

> reproduce the great results he was getting with the other

acupuncturist.

> I'm not so sure as I feel he is looking for someone to " fix " him

and not

> taking personal responsibility for his health and wellbeing.

>

> I want to help this guy, but I get the feeling that I am on a

slippery

> slope and that even the best acupuncture treatments in the world

won't

> counteract his lifestyle. I'm open to any kind of treatment that

may

> make a breakthrough with him. He is willing to see me 3 times a

week,

> and right now I am his only " positive " support apart from his

mother who

> is paying for the treatments, which is another possible issue. His

> mother is the one that found me and after talking with her on the

phone

> she felt I was the best acupuncturist she talked to in the area to

help

> her son.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

> Oasis Acupuncture

> http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

> 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

> Suite D-35

> Scottsdale, AZ 85258

> Phone: (480) 991-3650

> Fax: (480) 247-4472

>

>

>

> The points I use are a Matsumoto adrenal treatment, and I added the

> notion

> of getting them to connect to their stuff. I suppose any adrenal

> treatment

> protocol would do.

> Best wishes,

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and

adjust accordingly.

 

Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

group requires prior permission from the author.

 

 

 

 

 

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