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Hi David & All,

 

> I am actually writing my thesis on Auriculotherapy and its treatment of

> addiction (primarily chemical dependency). I came across your critique

> while doing some web based article search (Can't recall where at the

> moment, but i'm sure it would be the one your talking about). I found

> it fascinating. Something that i am strongly trying to introduce into

> the health care system here in Australia is Auriculotherapy. And i

> believe the best method of this is through its efficacy in the

> treatment / management of Herion and Crack/Cocaine. I was originally

> introduced to Auricular Acupuncture at a very young age, mainly the

> Chinese version, and it was Terry Olesons work that boosted my

> interest and study of the European / Nogier system. It truely is an

> excellent text. Thanks for the link, David White. Clinical Director /

> Practitioner Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

> Founder SydneyTCM

 

The late Dr. Meg Patterson pioneered NET (Neuro-electric therapy) in

the treatment of addictions. Those interested will find many references

to her on Google. See: http://tinyurl.com/9ph6v

 

Meg learned of the usefulness of acupuncture in addiction while working

in the Tung Wah Hospital with Dr HL Wen. See one of Wen's papers at:

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16554

 

The first book on NET that I know was: " Addictions Can Be Cured : the

treatment of drug addiction " by Meg Patterson (Lion Publishing , 1975).

 

She was a great person and correspondence with her in the early 1970s

stimulated my interest in TCM. She died in 2002 after long post-stroke

illness.

 

No review or thesis on acupuncture and related methods in addiction

would be complete without reference to Meg's work.

 

May her Spirit find great peace.

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Phil,

 

Thankyou for that reference, i have come across some of megs

work (that was referenced through someone elses work). Much

appreciated.

 

David.

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Phil

Rogers " <@e...> wrote:

> Hi David & All,

>

> > I am actually writing my thesis on Auriculotherapy and its

treatment of

> > addiction (primarily chemical dependency). I came across

your critique

> > while doing some web based article search (Can't recall

where at the

> > moment, but i'm sure it would be the one your talking about).

I found

> > it fascinating. Something that i am strongly trying to introduce

into

> > the health care system here in Australia is Auriculotherapy.

And i

> > believe the best method of this is through its efficacy in the

> > treatment / management of Herion and Crack/Cocaine. I was

originally

> > introduced to Auricular Acupuncture at a very young age,

mainly the

> > Chinese version, and it was Terry Olesons work that boosted

my

> > interest and study of the European / Nogier system. It truely is

an

> > excellent text. Thanks for the link, David White. Clinical /

> > Practitioner Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & Chinese

Medicine

> > Founder SydneyTCM

>

> The late Dr. Meg Patterson pioneered NET (Neuro-electric

therapy) in

> the treatment of addictions. Those interested will find many

references

> to her on Google. See: http://tinyurl.com/9ph6v

>

> Meg learned of the usefulness of acupuncture in addiction

while working

> in the Tung Wah Hospital with Dr HL Wen. See one of Wen's

papers at:

> http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16554

>

> The first book on NET that I know was: " Addictions Can Be

Cured : the

> treatment of drug addiction " by Meg Patterson (Lion Publishing

, 1975).

>

> She was a great person and correspondence with her in the

early 1970s

> stimulated my interest in TCM. She died in 2002 after long

post-stroke

> illness.

>

> No review or thesis on acupuncture and related methods in

addiction

> would be complete without reference to Meg's work.

>

> May her Spirit find great peace.

> Phil

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users who are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield, but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, " Mr Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox phase and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

 

 

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

 

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Guest guest

This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

terms of dollar value!

So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long way

off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an acupuncturist

and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio at

the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you do

not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

RayFord

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users who

are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield, but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, " Mr

Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox phase

and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

 

 

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

 

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

 

I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional rural

area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of the

larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course as a

test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes of

things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a large

scale health issue.

 

It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples can

radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

Best wishes,

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

terms of dollar value!

So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long way

off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an acupuncturist

and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio at

the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you do

not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

RayFord

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users who

are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield, but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, " Mr

Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox phase

and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been working my

arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go right

ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for them

not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer to see

what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of positive

thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

Ray Ford

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

 

I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional

rural

area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of

the

larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course

as a

test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes

of

things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a

large

scale health issue.

 

It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples

can

radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

Best wishes,

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

terms of dollar value!

So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long

way

off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

acupuncturist

and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio

at

the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you

do

not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

RayFord

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users

who

are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield,

but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, "

Mr

Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

phase

and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point in a

nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I believe full

context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond of

life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This is

mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

(study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets of the

ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

" positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

 

To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at best and

head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite, a

very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot down

in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for ourselves.

Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my care

for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will truly be

devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been working my

arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go right

ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for them

not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer to see

what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of positive

thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

Ray Ford

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

 

I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional

rural

area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of

the

larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course

as a

test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes

of

things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a

large

scale health issue.

 

It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples

can

radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

Best wishes,

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

terms of dollar value!

So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long

way

off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

acupuncturist

and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio

at

the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you

do

not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

RayFord

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users

who

are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield,

but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, "

Mr

Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

phase

and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Ray,

We are all entitled to our perspectives and sharing them is great!

 

However, I prefer my softly shared and not shoved down my neck.

Best wishes,

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 4:38 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point in a

nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I believe full

context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond of

life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This is

mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

(study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets of the

ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

" positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

 

To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at best and

head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite, a

very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot down

in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for ourselves.

Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my care

for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will truly be

devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been working my

arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go right

ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for them

not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer to see

what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of positive

thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

Ray Ford

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

 

I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional

rural

area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of

the

larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course

as a

test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes

of

things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a

large

scale health issue.

 

It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples

can

radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

Best wishes,

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

terms of dollar value!

So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long

way

off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

acupuncturist

and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio

at

the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you

do

not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

RayFord

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users

who

are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield,

but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, "

Mr

Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

phase

and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Ray and all,

 

I'm afraid I totally agree with Ray. That's the painful truth of our

profession. It's a constant uphill battle. But to be honest I like a fight,

being the underdog and if your the same, you'll get on ok. If you like to be

spoon-fed patients, then this isn't the field for you.

 

And it's true, any article that comes out with the word acupuncture on it

doesn't mean its a step forward. We need quality studies of good

methodological protocol otherwise they'll be slammed and not given any

credit, which damages our profession.

 

Alot of research as we know, ends up with a miss-mash of results,

conclusions and recommendations. This is largely because of the studies

inclusion/exclusion criteria. As it's set to WM disease analysis, it doesn't

take into account any TCM pattern analysis. As there is no pattern analysis,

how can you expect the treatment protocol to work on a number of different

patterns. WM doesn't want to except the theories of TCM but rather just the

needles, meridians and acupoints and its having a hard time excepting just

them. We need to push the theories of TCM into the inclusion/exclusion

criteria of a study, where a number of practitioners will agree on a pattern

analysis of a particular group of patients. I know, practitioners agreeing

on a pattern analysis, tuff one.

 

Warm regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM

07786198900

attiliodalberto

<http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com

 

" A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part

limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and

feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical

illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein)

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray ford

02 June 2005 07:38

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point in a

nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I believe full

context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond of

life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This is

mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

(study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets of the

ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

" positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

 

To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at best and

head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite, a

very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot down

in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for ourselves.

Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my care

for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will truly be

devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been working my

arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go right

ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for them

not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer to see

what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of positive

thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

Ray Ford

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

 

I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional

rural

area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of

the

larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course

as a

test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes

of

things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a

large

scale health issue.

 

It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples

can

radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

Best wishes,

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray

ford

Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

 

This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

terms of dollar value!

So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long

way

off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

acupuncturist

and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio

at

the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you

do

not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

RayFord

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

Sharon

Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi David,

I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

being

based in Sydney.

Regards,

 

 

 

Print Email

 

Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

with

acupuncture.

 

Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users

who

are

in the process of detoxing.

 

The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield,

but

says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

 

New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

 

The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

 

" Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, "

Mr

Long

said.

 

" So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

that

we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

 

Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Association says a hour long session a day can help.

 

" Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

phase

and

then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

 

Print Email

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

 

--

Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

 

 

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Sharon,

 

I recently recieved some info on just that, and, as Ray pointed out,

heard it on the Radio. Thanks.

 

David White

Clinical Director / Practitioner

Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

Founder: SydneyTCM

 

 

Chinese Medicine ,

wrote:

> Hi David,

> I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

being

> based in Sydney.

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

> Print Email

>

> Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug

addicts with

> acupuncture.

>

> Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and Chinese

Medicine

> Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating

users who are

> in the process of detoxing.

>

> The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

> establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in

Fairfield, but

> says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

treatment.

>

> New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

>

> The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it

could

> become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

>

> " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

pharmacotherapy

> treatments which as you know have been a very traditional

approach, " Mr Long

> said.

>

> " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

people to

> get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

that

> we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

>

> Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and Chinese

Medicine

> Association says a hour long session a day can help.

>

> " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

phase and

> then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

>

> Print Email

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of

Phil

>

> --

>

>

> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date:

1/06/2005

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Ray,

 

We have'nt met but i taught some of those very students who you

refer to at the Sydney Institute of Traditional , so

HI!

 

Unfortunately Dr. Woback didn't know jack$! & % about the subject he

was asked to discuss. And i agree with your previous posts, that

this negative bombardment that TCM recieves every time we " threaten "

the medical " professionals " is ridiculous. That is why i plan on

taking something positive to the right people, like Attilio

said " fight back " .

 

Acupuncture is a medical system to be reckond with!

 

But i'll do it in a nice way. I believe that through the efficacy of

Auriculotherapies treatment of addiction we can open up another

avenue to gain the respect that Acupuncture deserves. Then from

this, and other methods, teach and educate people about the TCM

approach to healthcare.

 

Kind Regards,

 

David White

Clinical Director / Practitioner

Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

Founder SydneyTCM

 

Chinese Medicine , " ray ford "

<rford@p...> wrote:

> My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point

in a

> nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I

believe full

> context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

> acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond

of

> life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This

is

> mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

> (study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets

of the

> ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

> scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

> " positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

>

> To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at

best and

> head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite,

a

> very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

> acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot

down

> in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for

ourselves.

> Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

> profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my

care

> for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will

truly be

> devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

ray

> ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been

working my

> arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

> If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go

right

> ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for

them

> not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer

to see

> what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of

positive

> thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

> Ray Ford

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

>

> I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the

regional

> rural

> area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had

one of

> the

> larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first

course

> as a

> test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger

schemes

> of

> things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture

on a

> large

> scale health issue.

>

> It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the

ripples

> can

> radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

> Best wishes,

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of

ray

> ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who

claimed

> that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month "

he was

> completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he

is the

> area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my

breath for

> the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He

favours

> methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there

is in

> terms of dollar value!

> So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in

reality the

> funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long

long

> way

> off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

> acupuncturist

> and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the

radio

> at

> the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake.

If you

> do

> not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality

check.

> RayFord

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf

Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Hi David,

> I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

> being

> based in Sydney.

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

> Print Email

>

> Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug

addicts

> with

> acupuncture.

>

> Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and Chinese

Medicine

> Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating

users

> who

> are

> in the process of detoxing.

>

> The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

> establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in

Fairfield,

> but

> says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

> treatment.

>

> New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

>

> The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it

could

> become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

>

> " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

> pharmacotherapy

> treatments which as you know have been a very traditional

approach, "

> Mr

> Long

> said.

>

> " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to

encourage

> people to

> get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make

sure

> that

> we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

>

> Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and Chinese

Medicine

> Association says a hour long session a day can help.

>

> " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the

detox

> phase

> and

> then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

>

> Print Email

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf

Of Phil

>

> --

>

>

> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date:

1/06/2005

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi David,

The interview was so one sided it was ridiculous, perhaps someone with

your experience should be asked to comment on air. I have always failed

miserably with drug addicts over the years and ALWAYS refer them on now.

I am interested in this area but admit I am hopeless with these patients

as they are so recalcitrant. Someone specialising as you do is a great

idea and I offer to help you in any way I can including referring these

patients who still turn up from time to time.

When I was in New York Mark Seem told me that a drug rehab centre using

acupuncture in the Bronx was showing VERY promising results and

receiving money and a great deal of interest from the local health

authorities. I don't have the details but I am sure you have the

details. Dr Terry Olesen an expert in the field of auriculo-therapy has

also told me that he believes that this area has a lot of promise but

needs funds and quality studies.

Good luck with your quest.

Regards

Ray ford

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

sydneytcm

Thursday, 2 June 2005 9:39 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi Ray,

 

We have'nt met but i taught some of those very students who you

refer to at the Sydney Institute of Traditional , so

HI!

 

Unfortunately Dr. Woback didn't know jack$! & % about the subject he

was asked to discuss. And i agree with your previous posts, that

this negative bombardment that TCM recieves every time we " threaten "

the medical " professionals " is ridiculous. That is why i plan on

taking something positive to the right people, like Attilio

said " fight back " .

 

Acupuncture is a medical system to be reckond with!

 

But i'll do it in a nice way. I believe that through the efficacy of

Auriculotherapies treatment of addiction we can open up another

avenue to gain the respect that Acupuncture deserves. Then from

this, and other methods, teach and educate people about the TCM

approach to healthcare.

 

Kind Regards,

 

David White

Clinical Director / Practitioner

Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

Founder SydneyTCM

 

Chinese Medicine , " ray ford "

<rford@p...> wrote:

> My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point

in a

> nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I

believe full

> context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

> acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond

of

> life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This

is

> mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

> (study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets

of the

> ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

> scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

> " positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

>

> To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at

best and

> head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite,

a

> very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

> acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot

down

> in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for

ourselves.

> Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

> profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my

care

> for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will

truly be

> devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

ray

> ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been

working my

> arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

> If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go

right

> ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for

them

> not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer

to see

> what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of

positive

> thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

> Ray Ford

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

>

> I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the

regional

> rural

> area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had

one of

> the

> larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first

course

> as a

> test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger

schemes

> of

> things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture

on a

> large

> scale health issue.

>

> It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the

ripples

> can

> radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

> Best wishes,

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of

ray

> ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who

claimed

> that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month "

he was

> completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he

is the

> area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my

breath for

> the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He

favours

> methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there

is in

> terms of dollar value!

> So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in

reality the

> funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long

long

> way

> off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

> acupuncturist

> and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the

radio

> at

> the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake.

If you

> do

> not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality

check.

> RayFord

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf

Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Hi David,

> I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

> being

> based in Sydney.

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

> Print Email

>

> Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug

addicts

> with

> acupuncture.

>

> Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and Chinese

Medicine

> Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating

users

> who

> are

> in the process of detoxing.

>

> The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

> establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in

Fairfield,

> but

> says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

> treatment.

>

> New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

>

> The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it

could

> become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

>

> " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

> pharmacotherapy

> treatments which as you know have been a very traditional

approach, "

> Mr

> Long

> said.

>

> " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to

encourage

> people to

> get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make

sure

> that

> we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

>

> Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and Chinese

Medicine

> Association says a hour long session a day can help.

>

> " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the

detox

> phase

> and

> then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

>

> Print Email

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf

Of Phil

>

> --

>

>

> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date:

1/06/2005

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

It would then make sense to start in the beginning by ID of channels and

points phsyiologically (Dr. Bonghan/Soh theories come to mind) and by other

properties to create a single source of info (electromagnetic, light

propagation, chemical flow etc).

 

I would champion the idea of duplication of the Korean research into

physical and chemical constructs of the channels. From here we should then

consider examination of chemical contents and actions in the channels.

Finally, studies that focus on what happens when things do not flow or there

is a lack of channel flow. This should keep us busy for awhile. Then we

add our own theory and ideas to the mix.

 

This stuff makes much more sense to me when I combine the above in my

discussions with students and to them as well. I see their light bulbs go

off in their heads.

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:08:28 +0100

>

>Hi Ray and all,

>

>I'm afraid I totally agree with Ray. That's the painful truth of our

>profession. It's a constant uphill battle. But to be honest I like a fight,

>being the underdog and if your the same, you'll get on ok. If you like to

>be

>spoon-fed patients, then this isn't the field for you.

>

>And it's true, any article that comes out with the word acupuncture on it

>doesn't mean its a step forward. We need quality studies of good

>methodological protocol otherwise they'll be slammed and not given any

>credit, which damages our profession.

>

>Alot of research as we know, ends up with a miss-mash of results,

>conclusions and recommendations. This is largely because of the studies

>inclusion/exclusion criteria. As it's set to WM disease analysis, it

>doesn't

>take into account any TCM pattern analysis. As there is no pattern

>analysis,

>how can you expect the treatment protocol to work on a number of different

>patterns. WM doesn't want to except the theories of TCM but rather just the

>needles, meridians and acupoints and its having a hard time excepting just

>them. We need to push the theories of TCM into the inclusion/exclusion

>criteria of a study, where a number of practitioners will agree on a

>pattern

>analysis of a particular group of patients. I know, practitioners agreeing

>on a pattern analysis, tuff one.

>

>Warm regards,

>

>Attilio D'Alberto

>Doctor of (Beijing, China)

>BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM

>07786198900

>attiliodalberto

> <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com

>

> " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part

>limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and

>feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical

>illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein)

>

>

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray ford

>02 June 2005 07:38

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

>My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point in a

>nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I believe full

>context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

>acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond of

>life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This is

>mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

>(study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets of the

>ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

>scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

> " positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

>

>To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at best and

>head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite, a

>very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

>acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot down

>in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for ourselves.

>Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

>profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my care

>for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will truly be

>devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray

>ford

>Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been working my

>arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

>If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go right

>ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for them

>not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer to see

>what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of positive

>thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

>Ray Ford

>

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

>Sharon

>Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

>Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

>

>I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional

>rural

>area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of

>the

>larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course

>as a

>test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes

>of

>things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a

>large

>scale health issue.

>

>It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples

>can

>radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

>Best wishes,

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

>Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray

>ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

> that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

> completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

> area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

> the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

> methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

> terms of dollar value!

> So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

> funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long

>way

> off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

>acupuncturist

> and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio

>at

> the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you

>do

> not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

> RayFord

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Hi David,

> I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

>being

> based in Sydney.

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

> Print Email

>

> Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

> with

> acupuncture.

>

> Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

> Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users

>who

> are

> in the process of detoxing.

>

> The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

> establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield,

>but

> says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

> treatment.

>

> New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

>

> The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

> become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

>

> " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

> pharmacotherapy

> treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, "

>Mr

> Long

> said.

>

> " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

> people to

> get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

>that

> we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

>

> Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

> Association says a hour long session a day can help.

>

> " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

>phase

> and

> then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

>

> Print Email

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

>

> --

>

>

> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

I wish to chime in and say that there will always be those who abhore others

helping people and may in fact see us as competition. Just because we have

a study, even a good one, does not mean that they will jump up and down and

exholt us. These same individuals will most likely pick that one apart as

well. If we try to constantly defend ourselves than we are loosing momentum

and focus. The current system of WM is a thing of the past, outdated at

best and dangerous at worst. They have not kept up with the times and

become a cult unto themselves. Do not expect to change a fundamentalist

easily nor expect that they have an open mind. They simply will decrease

over time as more medical schools are changing curricula to keep up with

changes in economic times and desires of the patients. In ending of my

dissertation I would like to point out that the US office of technology

assesment study on medicine found that only about 15-20% of procedures had

any scientific validity. Makes one wonder, huh?

 

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> <>

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:42:55 +1000

>

>Dear Ray,

>We are all entitled to our perspectives and sharing them is great!

>

>However, I prefer my softly shared and not shoved down my neck.

>Best wishes,

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

>Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 4:38 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My point in a

> nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I believe full

> context should be applied. Just because a study has the " word "

> acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the pond of

> life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace. This is

> mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

> (study) was slammed by the medical profession before it even gets of the

> ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never pass

> scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

> " positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

>

> To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading at best and

> head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the opposite, a

> very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor " that

> acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good idea shot down

> in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide for ourselves.

> Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the medical

> profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in my care

> for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will truly be

> devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of ray

> ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been working my

> arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

> If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel good go right

> ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns are for them

> not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer to see

> what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of positive

> thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to do.

> Ray Ford

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

>

> I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in the regional

> rural

> area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just had one of

> the

> larger employers indicate they will send one person on the first course

> as a

> test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger schemes

> of

> things however, it is another step towards utilising acupuncture on a

> large

> scale health issue.

>

> It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the ripples

> can

> radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

> Best wishes,

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of ray

> ford

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

>

> This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak who claimed

> that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the month " he was

> completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As he is the

> area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my breath for

> the government to hand over any research money " just yet " He favours

> methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource there is in

> terms of dollar value!

> So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in reality the

> funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are a long long

> way

> off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

> acupuncturist

> and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off the radio

> at

> the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft milkshake. If you

> do

> not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality check.

> RayFord

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> Sharon

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Hi David,

> I just had this come in and thought it might be up of interesting

> being

> based in Sydney.

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

> Print Email

>

> Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug addicts

> with

> acupuncture.

>

> Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

> Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating users

> who

> are

> in the process of detoxing.

>

> The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against the

> establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in Fairfield,

> but

> says it is committed to offering drug users the latest methods of

> treatment.

>

> New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

>

> The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long says it could

> become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

>

> " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

> pharmacotherapy

> treatments which as you know have been a very traditional approach, "

> Mr

> Long

> said.

>

> " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to encourage

> people to

> get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make sure

> that

> we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales Health. "

>

> Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

> Association says a hour long session a day can help.

>

> " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during the detox

> phase

> and

> then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

>

> Print Email

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Phil

>

> --

>

>

> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release 1/06/2005

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Ray,

 

I'm not that experienced yet, not to be called a " specialist " any,

but thankyou anyway. I would, of course, very much appreciate

any referals in this field as this would build my experience. I

agree these patients are very uncoperative, especially if its not at

a specific " detox " centre.

 

I would also kindly accept any help that you may be able to give,

we should organise a " swap " of ideas one day.

 

Warm regards,

 

David White

Clinical Director / Practitioner

Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

Founder SydneyTCM

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " ray

ford " <rford@p...> wrote:

> Hi David,

> The interview was so one sided it was ridiculous, perhaps

someone with

> your experience should be asked to comment on air. I have

always failed

> miserably with drug addicts over the years and ALWAYS refer

them on now.

> I am interested in this area but admit I am hopeless with these

patients

> as they are so recalcitrant. Someone specialising as you do is

a great

> idea and I offer to help you in any way I can including referring

these

> patients who still turn up from time to time.

> When I was in New York Mark Seem told me that a drug rehab

centre using

> acupuncture in the Bronx was showing VERY promising

results and

> receiving money and a great deal of interest from the local

health

> authorities. I don't have the details but I am sure you have the

> details. Dr Terry Olesen an expert in the field of

auriculo-therapy has

> also told me that he believes that this area has a lot of promise

but

> needs funds and quality studies.

> Good luck with your quest.

> Regards

> Ray ford

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On

Behalf Of

> sydneytcm

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 9:39 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Hi Ray,

>

> We have'nt met but i taught some of those very students who

you

> refer to at the Sydney Institute of Traditional ,

so

> HI!

>

> Unfortunately Dr. Woback didn't know jack$! & % about the

subject he

> was asked to discuss. And i agree with your previous posts,

that

> this negative bombardment that TCM recieves every time we

" threaten "

> the medical " professionals " is ridiculous. That is why i plan on

> taking something positive to the right people, like Attilio

> said " fight back " .

>

> Acupuncture is a medical system to be reckond with!

>

> But i'll do it in a nice way. I believe that through the efficacy of

> Auriculotherapies treatment of addiction we can open up

another

> avenue to gain the respect that Acupuncture deserves. Then

from

> this, and other methods, teach and educate people about the

TCM

> approach to healthcare.

>

> Kind Regards,

>

> David White

> Clinical Director / Practitioner

> Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

> Founder SydneyTCM

>

> Chinese Medicine , " ray

ford "

> <rford@p...> wrote:

> > My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My

point

> in a

> > nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I

> believe full

> > context should be applied. Just because a study has the

" word "

> > acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the

pond

> of

> > life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace.

This

> is

> > mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

> > (study) was slammed by the medical profession before it

even gets

> of the

> > ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never

pass

> > scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

> > " positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

> >

> > To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading

at

> best and

> > head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the

opposite,

> a

> > very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor "

that

> > acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good

idea shot

> down

> > in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide

for

> ourselves.

> > Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the

medical

> > profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in

my

> care

> > for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will

> truly be

> > devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Chinese Medicine

On Behalf Of

> ray

> > ford

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> > Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been

> working my

> > arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

> > If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel

good go

> right

> > ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns

are for

> them

> > not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer

> to see

> > what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of

> positive

> > thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to

do.

> > Ray Ford

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Chinese Medicine

On Behalf Of

> > Sharon

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> >

> > Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

> >

> > I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in

the

> regional

> > rural

> > area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just

had

> one of

> > the

> > larger employers indicate they will send one person on the

first

> course

> > as a

> > test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger

> schemes

> > of

> > things however, it is another step towards utilising

acupuncture

> on a

> > large

> > scale health issue.

> >

> > It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the

> ripples

> > can

> > radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

> > Best wishes,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> >

Chinese MedicineOn

Behalf Of

> ray

> > ford

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> >

> > This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak

who

> claimed

> > that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the

month "

> he was

> > completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As

he

> is the

> > area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my

> breath for

> > the government to hand over any research money " just yet "

He

> favours

> > methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource

there

> is in

> > terms of dollar value!

> > So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in

> reality the

> > funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are

a long

> long

> > way

> > off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

> > acupuncturist

> > and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off

the

> radio

> > at

> > the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft

milkshake.

> If you

> > do

> > not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality

> check.

> > RayFord

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Chinese Medicine

On Behalf

> Of

> > Sharon

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> > Hi David,

> > I just had this come in and thought it might be up of

interesting

> > being

> > based in Sydney.

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Print Email

> >

> > Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> > Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> > A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug

> addicts

> > with

> > acupuncture.

> >

> > Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Chinese

> Medicine

> > Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating

> users

> > who

> > are

> > in the process of detoxing.

> >

> > The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against

the

> > establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in

> Fairfield,

> > but

> > says it is committed to offering drug users the latest

methods of

> > treatment.

> >

> > New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

> >

> > The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long

says it

> could

> > become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

> >

> > " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

> > pharmacotherapy

> > treatments which as you know have been a very traditional

> approach, "

> > Mr

> > Long

> > said.

> >

> > " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to

> encourage

> > people to

> > get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make

> sure

> > that

> > we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales

Health. "

> >

> > Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Chinese

> Medicine

> > Association says a hour long session a day can help.

> >

> > " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during

the

> detox

> > phase

> > and

> > then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

> >

> > Print Email

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> >

Chinese MedicineOn

Behalf

> Of Phil

> >

> > --

> >

> >

> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date:

> 1/06/2005

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

OK David, we should do that.

Ray

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

sydneytcm

Friday, 3 June 2005 10:35 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Auriculotherapy and addiction

 

Hi Ray,

 

I'm not that experienced yet, not to be called a " specialist " any,

but thankyou anyway. I would, of course, very much appreciate

any referals in this field as this would build my experience. I

agree these patients are very uncoperative, especially if its not at

a specific " detox " centre.

 

I would also kindly accept any help that you may be able to give,

we should organise a " swap " of ideas one day.

 

Warm regards,

 

David White

Clinical Director / Practitioner

Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

Founder SydneyTCM

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " ray

ford " <rford@p...> wrote:

> Hi David,

> The interview was so one sided it was ridiculous, perhaps

someone with

> your experience should be asked to comment on air. I have

always failed

> miserably with drug addicts over the years and ALWAYS refer

them on now.

> I am interested in this area but admit I am hopeless with these

patients

> as they are so recalcitrant. Someone specialising as you do is

a great

> idea and I offer to help you in any way I can including referring

these

> patients who still turn up from time to time.

> When I was in New York Mark Seem told me that a drug rehab

centre using

> acupuncture in the Bronx was showing VERY promising

results and

> receiving money and a great deal of interest from the local

health

> authorities. I don't have the details but I am sure you have the

> details. Dr Terry Olesen an expert in the field of

auriculo-therapy has

> also told me that he believes that this area has a lot of promise

but

> needs funds and quality studies.

> Good luck with your quest.

> Regards

> Ray ford

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

> Chinese Medicine On

Behalf Of

> sydneytcm

> Thursday, 2 June 2005 9:39 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Auriculotherapy and addiction

>

> Hi Ray,

>

> We have'nt met but i taught some of those very students who

you

> refer to at the Sydney Institute of Traditional ,

so

> HI!

>

> Unfortunately Dr. Woback didn't know jack$! & % about the

subject he

> was asked to discuss. And i agree with your previous posts,

that

> this negative bombardment that TCM recieves every time we

" threaten "

> the medical " professionals " is ridiculous. That is why i plan on

> taking something positive to the right people, like Attilio

> said " fight back " .

>

> Acupuncture is a medical system to be reckond with!

>

> But i'll do it in a nice way. I believe that through the efficacy of

> Auriculotherapies treatment of addiction we can open up

another

> avenue to gain the respect that Acupuncture deserves. Then

from

> this, and other methods, teach and educate people about the

TCM

> approach to healthcare.

>

> Kind Regards,

>

> David White

> Clinical Director / Practitioner

> Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture &

> Founder SydneyTCM

>

> Chinese Medicine , " ray

ford "

> <rford@p...> wrote:

> > My original point was missed, as I did not spell it out. My

point

> in a

> > nutshell is this: When offering information to each other I

> believe full

> > context should be applied. Just because a study has the

" word "

> > acupuncture does not mean that it is a little " pebble " in the

pond

> of

> > life spreading throughout the world creating love and peace.

This

> is

> > mystical thinking at its worst IMO. The fact is that this article

> > (study) was slammed by the medical profession before it

even gets

> of the

> > ground. The size of the study will ensure that it will never

pass

> > scientific scrutiny. These are facts they are not " negative " nor

> > " positive " just facts containing NO emotion.

> >

> > To pass this article up as a positive message is misleading

at

> best and

> > head in the sand lie at worst as it is without doubt the

opposite,

> a

> > very poor public announcement by a " leading medical doctor "

that

> > acupuncture cannot help drug addiction. This was a good

idea shot

> down

> > in flames. We are adults we can face facts and can decide

for

> ourselves.

> > Personally I have no problem as I am used to this from the

medical

> > profession so do not get surprised. I want to prepare those in

my

> care

> > for the reality they will face not some fantasy where they will

> truly be

> > devoured without knowledge of the full picture. Ray Ford

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Chinese Medicine

On Behalf Of

> ray

> > ford

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 2:29 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> > Sharon, your post was just a tad condescending. I have been

> working my

> > arse off for 20 years so I know solutions are required.

> > If you think one person in a smoking group makes you feel

good go

> right

> > ahead. I have seven students in my clinic and my concerns

are for

> them

> > not you or myself. Positive spinning everything is fine I prefer

> to see

> > what is actually happening " beneath " the very thin veneer of

> positive

> > thinking, this helps to know what we are actually required to

do.

> > Ray Ford

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Chinese Medicine

On Behalf Of

> > Sharon

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:58 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> >

> > Every day is a day closer Ray, any little steps are useful.

> >

> > I have just launched this week a stop smoking program in

the

> regional

> > rural

> > area where I live in South East Queensland, and I have just

had

> one of

> > the

> > larger employers indicate they will send one person on the

first

> course

> > as a

> > test case for further support. It may not be much in the bigger

> schemes

> > of

> > things however, it is another step towards utilising

acupuncture

> on a

> > large

> > scale health issue.

> >

> > It is one of my little pebbles, I am casting on the water so the

> ripples

> > can

> > radiate outwards. Solutions Ray is what we need!

> > Best wishes,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> >

Chinese MedicineOn

Behalf Of

> ray

> > ford

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 1:13 PM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> >

> > This was also on the radio an interview with DR Alex Wodak

who

> claimed

> > that this acupuncture treatment was just " flavour of the

month "

> he was

> > completely dismissive of acupuncture for drug addiction. As

he

> is the

> > area medical officer with a lot of clout I wouldn't hold my

> breath for

> > the government to hand over any research money " just yet "

He

> favours

> > methadone and thinks it is far and away the best resource

there

> is in

> > terms of dollar value!

> > So the news looks promising(the one Sharon posted) but in

> reality the

> > funds needed to really show how acupuncture can help are

a long

> long

> > way

> > off. In the interview NO counter argument was given by an

> > acupuncturist

> > and the announcer kept calling it " akapuncha " I turned off

the

> radio

> > at

> > the end of the interview and went back to my Zoloft

milkshake.

> If you

> > do

> > not like hearing about this I am sorry but this IS a reality

> check.

> > RayFord

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> > Chinese Medicine

On Behalf

> Of

> > Sharon

> > Thursday, 2 June 2005 11:00 AM

> > Chinese Medicine

> > RE: Auriculotherapy and addiction

> >

> > Hi David,

> > I just had this come in and thought it might be up of

interesting

> > being

> > based in Sydney.

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Print Email

> >

> > Last Update: Wednesday, June 1, 2005. 10:43am (AEST)

> > Acupuncture to offer alternative drug addiction treatment

> > A trial is being planned in Sydney's south-west to treat drug

> addicts

> > with

> > acupuncture.

> >

> > Fairfield Council is working with the Acupuncture and

Chinese

> Medicine

> > Association to investigate a trial that would involve treating

> users

> > who

> > are

> > in the process of detoxing.

> >

> > The new drugs policy reaffirms the council's stance against

the

> > establishment of a medically supervised injecting room in

> Fairfield,

> > but

> > says it is committed to offering drug users the latest

methods of

> > treatment.

> >

> > New South Wales Health will be asked to get involved.

> >

> > The method is used overseas and the council's Brian Long

says it

> could

> > become an alternative treatment in the Fairfield area.

> >

> > " Allow people opportunities to get off drugs without using

> > pharmacotherapy

> > treatments which as you know have been a very traditional

> approach, "

> > Mr

> > Long

> > said.

> >

> > " So we're certainly interested in looking at new ways to

> encourage

> > people to

> > get off illicit drugs, but it will be important to us to make

> sure

> > that

> > we've got the support and involvement of New South Wales

Health. "

> >

> > Christine Berle from the Australian Acupuncture and

Chinese

> Medicine

> > Association says a hour long session a day can help.

> >

> > " Normalising the organs that are being overworked during

the

> detox

> > phase

> > and

> > then also reducing the stress levels, " Ms Berle said.

> >

> > Print Email

> >

> >

> > Chinese Medicine

> >

Chinese MedicineOn

Behalf

> Of Phil

> >

> > --

> >

> >

> > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date:

> 1/06/2005

> >

> >

> >

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