Guest guest Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 Hi Dave, I never managed to find how the 5 point NADA protocol was actually formulated. What i have found through my personal experience is that electric acupuncture on the Lung point, thus following in part the original research by Wen et al back in the 70s, is very effective in reducing addictive cravings. I use this, other auricular and body points as well as craving reducing patents formulas such as Jia Wei Xiao Yao Wan. I believe that cravings greatly relate to the Liver and formulas such as this help to regulate Qi, balance the Ethereal soul, clear excessive heat and tonify Yin. I believe that by balancing the Ethereal soul or rather allowing it to flow freely, it greatly reduces the need for addictive substances. Such interventions as nicotine and cannabis react with the Liver and the Ethereal soul, over exaggerating its presence in the body, giving the high. Take the drug away and you feel moody, sluggish and unhappy. Anyway, that's my ideas and another paper in itself. Attilio Chinese Medicine , " sydneytcm " <sydneytcm> wrote: > Attilio, > > I am actually writing my thesis on Auriculotherapy and its > treatment of addiction (primarily chemical dependency). I came > across your critique while doing some web based article search > (Can't recall where at the moment, but i'm sure it would be the > one your talking about). I found it fascinating. Something that i > am strongly trying to introduce into the health care system here > in Australia is Auriculotherapy. And i believe the best method of > this is through its efficacy in the treatment / management of > Herion and Crack/Cocaine. > > I was originally introduced to Auricular Acupuncture at a very > young age, mainly the Chinese version, and it was Terry > Olesons work that boosted my interest and study of the > European / Nogier system. It truely is an excellent text. > > Thanks for the link, > > David White. > Clinical Director / Practitioner > Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & > Founder SydneyTCM > > > Chinese Medicine , " Attilio > D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > Hi David, > > > > I wrote a critique on the use of auricular acupuncture in the > treatment of > > cocaine/crack abuse which was published in the JACM Dec > 2004, see > > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articlesenglish.htm I hope you > find it > > interesting. > > > > A very good auricular acupuncture book is Terry Oleson's > 'Auriculotherapy > > Manual', ISBN 0-443-07162-4. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM > > 07786198900 > > attiliodalberto > > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, > a part > > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his > thoughts and > > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of > optical > > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > Chinese Medicine On > Behalf Of sydneytcm > > 27 May 2005 14:50 > > Chinese Medicine > > Auriculotherapy > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > My name is David White, i practice alot of Auriculotherapy in my > > clinic and i would be very interested in the practlitioners of this > > forums' experiences and knowledge on this well known > > micro-system of Acupuncture. Do any of you practice it? And if > so, > > do you combine it with body Acupuncture or use it solo?? > > > > I have found that i mostly use it for pain, and as an adjunct to > > other TCM modalities. I am, however, getting more and more > > interested in AcuDetox programs and the like. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > David White > > > > Clinical Director / Principal Practitioner > > Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & > > Director SydneyTCM > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link > page, > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine/joi > n and adjust > > accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication > outside the group > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2005 Report Share Posted May 29, 2005 Hi Attilio, The NADA protocol was formulated through the Lincoln Hospital, New York through a collabaration of various studies, including many by the reseacher you discussed, Wen. I also believe Nogier may have had some early findings on the subject (correct me if i'm wrong, no true reliable source on that). NADA protocol is based on alot of clinical experience in the field. I have come across some old TCM texts that describe Auricular prescriptions for Weight management, and food cravings (ShenMen, Stomach, Kidney, San Jiao etc) and i have applied similar approaches in my clinic with ok results - i find the European approach much more effective. In terms of differential diagnosis, my studies have led to a similar experience, that of Liver patterns and hence the involvement of the Hun. However, i have also found that with Smoking that the Lung, and Heart have a large involvement aswell. Obviously the Heart and Shen disturbance is seen in more severe cases where some psychological factors may be taking place. This generally manifests in the nervous, anxious patient rather than the Emotional, stressed type. The Lung comes into it obviously because there is an direct attack on the organ itself. I find the impairment of the Lung leads to an impairment of the Po, or " corporeal Soul " . The Po, being the Yin counterpart of the Hun. This would manifest in patients with constrained feelings, that of grief/sadness etc. Which may lead to stagnant Qi, and hence Liver patterns. Unfortunately my experience with Electro Acupuncture to the Auricle is very limited. I would be fascinated if you (or anyone else) could expand on this subject. I must admit, i'm a bit " old School " in my approach. Also what instruments (Electro - Acupuncture devices) do you use. Kindest Regards, David White Clinical Director / Practitioner Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & Chinese Medicine , " Attilio DAlberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I never managed to find how the 5 point NADA protocol was actually > formulated. > > What i have found through my personal experience is that electric > acupuncture on the Lung point, thus following in part the original > research by Wen et al back in the 70s, is very effective in reducing > addictive cravings. I use this, other auricular and body points as > well as craving reducing patents formulas such as Jia Wei Xiao Yao > Wan. I believe that cravings greatly relate to the Liver and > formulas such as this help to regulate Qi, balance the Ethereal > soul, clear excessive heat and tonify Yin. I believe that by > balancing the Ethereal soul or rather allowing it to flow freely, it > greatly reduces the need for addictive substances. Such > interventions as nicotine and cannabis react with the Liver and the > Ethereal soul, over exaggerating its presence in the body, giving > the high. Take the drug away and you feel moody, sluggish and > unhappy. Anyway, that's my ideas and another paper in itself. > > Attilio > > > Chinese Medicine , " sydneytcm " > <sydneytcm> wrote: > > Attilio, > > > > I am actually writing my thesis on Auriculotherapy and its > > treatment of addiction (primarily chemical dependency). I came > > across your critique while doing some web based article search > > (Can't recall where at the moment, but i'm sure it would be the > > one your talking about). I found it fascinating. Something that i > > am strongly trying to introduce into the health care system here > > in Australia is Auriculotherapy. And i believe the best method of > > this is through its efficacy in the treatment / management of > > Herion and Crack/Cocaine. > > > > I was originally introduced to Auricular Acupuncture at a very > > young age, mainly the Chinese version, and it was Terry > > Olesons work that boosted my interest and study of the > > European / Nogier system. It truely is an excellent text. > > > > Thanks for the link, > > > > David White. > > Clinical Director / Practitioner > > Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & > > Founder SydneyTCM > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Attilio > > D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > > Hi David, > > > > > > I wrote a critique on the use of auricular acupuncture in the > > treatment of > > > cocaine/crack abuse which was published in the JACM Dec > > 2004, see > > > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articlesenglish.htm I hope you > > find it > > > interesting. > > > > > > A very good auricular acupuncture book is Terry Oleson's > > 'Auriculotherapy > > > Manual', ISBN 0-443-07162-4. > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > > BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM > > > 07786198900 > > > attiliodalberto > > > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > > > > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, > > a part > > > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his > > thoughts and > > > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of > > optical > > > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Chinese Medicine On > > Behalf Of sydneytcm > > > 27 May 2005 14:50 > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Auriculotherapy > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > My name is David White, i practice alot of Auriculotherapy in my > > > clinic and i would be very interested in the practlitioners of > this > > > forums' experiences and knowledge on this well known > > > micro-system of Acupuncture. Do any of you practice it? And if > > so, > > > do you combine it with body Acupuncture or use it solo?? > > > > > > I have found that i mostly use it for pain, and as an adjunct to > > > other TCM modalities. I am, however, getting more and more > > > interested in AcuDetox programs and the like. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > David White > > > > > > Clinical Director / Principal Practitioner > > > Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & > > > Director SydneyTCM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link > > page, > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine/joi > > n and adjust > > > accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication > > outside the group > > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > > academics, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2005 Report Share Posted May 29, 2005 In a message dated 5/28/2005 6:24:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, attiliodalberto writes: I never managed to find how the 5 point NADA protocol was actually formulated. I went to NY a few years ago and worked in the original NADA clinic under the original author of the protocol. It was great! Although most of the people int he cliic were court enforced, they all seemed to be genuinely happy to be there. In a life style that people can be a little " hard " , most of these people were patient, generous and appreciative. As far as I remember, the story of the beginning of NADA goes like this. A patient came to the hospital and needed some work that would be painful but because of a drug dependency, the DR. decided on acupuncture for pain control. The patient was currently craving drugs, but when the Dr. put the needles in, the patient mentioned the " DT's " went away. Being intrigued, the Dr. put a hold on the procedure and asked the patient to let him know when the craving returned. When that happened, the Dr. retreated. Over time, the Dr. experimented with different points to find a consistent protocol that would help most people. The five points he came up with is the current NADA protocol. That is a pretty close remembrance of the " story " . I can't remember exactly why the patient was in the hospital, but you get the gist of it. Hope that helps, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2005 Report Share Posted May 29, 2005 Hi David, Yes, Dr Michael Smith formulated the 5 point NADA protocol at the Lincoln hospital in New York. However, I never found the original search paper that provided the foundational theory for the selection of the 5 points over others. Yes, they seem like the right points to use, but why? They just seemed to have 'appeared'. Actually, Wen et al's original research just used electric stimulation on the Lung point. The vagus nerve runs very shallowly at the Lung point. Any stimulation, especially electrical, will greatly stimulate the vagus nerve causing a release of endorphins. This gives the patient a natural high. The NADA point prescription does not use electric acupuncture on the Lung point as far as I'm aware. I think your comments about the interactions of the souls is very interesting. To my knowledge, there isn't any discussion of the five soul interactions, nor how they could be deficient, excessive, stagnate, etc. I am really interested in this area. This ties in with my ideas on cellular memory as well and is something I will follow further. I don't use electric acupuncture much. I don't really agree with having to use such a strong intervention to treat the meridians. I only use it as a last resort. It's like watering the garden with a fire truck. I use the Huan Tiao electric acupuncture machine, its small, easy to use and is the only one that conforms with European Union safety laws. So for insurance purposes I'm covered. Warm regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM 07786198900 attiliodalberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of sydneytcm 29 May 2005 04:32 Chinese Medicine Re: NADA and Crack Abuse Hi Attilio, The NADA protocol was formulated through the Lincoln Hospital, New York through a collabaration of various studies, including many by the reseacher you discussed, Wen. I also believe Nogier may have had some early findings on the subject (correct me if i'm wrong, no true reliable source on that). NADA protocol is based on alot of clinical experience in the field. I have come across some old TCM texts that describe Auricular prescriptions for Weight management, and food cravings (ShenMen, Stomach, Kidney, San Jiao etc) and i have applied similar approaches in my clinic with ok results - i find the European approach much more effective. In terms of differential diagnosis, my studies have led to a similar experience, that of Liver patterns and hence the involvement of the Hun. However, i have also found that with Smoking that the Lung, and Heart have a large involvement aswell. Obviously the Heart and Shen disturbance is seen in more severe cases where some psychological factors may be taking place. This generally manifests in the nervous, anxious patient rather than the Emotional, stressed type. The Lung comes into it obviously because there is an direct attack on the organ itself. I find the impairment of the Lung leads to an impairment of the Po, or " corporeal Soul " . The Po, being the Yin counterpart of the Hun. This would manifest in patients with constrained feelings, that of grief/sadness etc. Which may lead to stagnant Qi, and hence Liver patterns. Unfortunately my experience with Electro Acupuncture to the Auricle is very limited. I would be fascinated if you (or anyone else) could expand on this subject. I must admit, i'm a bit " old School " in my approach. Also what instruments (Electro - Acupuncture devices) do you use. Kindest Regards, David White Clinical Director / Practitioner Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & Chinese Medicine , " Attilio DAlberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I never managed to find how the 5 point NADA protocol was actually > formulated. > > What i have found through my personal experience is that electric > acupuncture on the Lung point, thus following in part the original > research by Wen et al back in the 70s, is very effective in reducing > addictive cravings. I use this, other auricular and body points as > well as craving reducing patents formulas such as Jia Wei Xiao Yao > Wan. I believe that cravings greatly relate to the Liver and > formulas such as this help to regulate Qi, balance the Ethereal > soul, clear excessive heat and tonify Yin. I believe that by > balancing the Ethereal soul or rather allowing it to flow freely, it > greatly reduces the need for addictive substances. Such > interventions as nicotine and cannabis react with the Liver and the > Ethereal soul, over exaggerating its presence in the body, giving > the high. Take the drug away and you feel moody, sluggish and > unhappy. Anyway, that's my ideas and another paper in itself. > > Attilio > > > Chinese Medicine , " sydneytcm " > <sydneytcm> wrote: > > Attilio, > > > > I am actually writing my thesis on Auriculotherapy and its > > treatment of addiction (primarily chemical dependency). I came > > across your critique while doing some web based article search > > (Can't recall where at the moment, but i'm sure it would be the > > one your talking about). I found it fascinating. Something that i > > am strongly trying to introduce into the health care system here > > in Australia is Auriculotherapy. And i believe the best method of > > this is through its efficacy in the treatment / management of > > Herion and Crack/Cocaine. > > > > I was originally introduced to Auricular Acupuncture at a very > > young age, mainly the Chinese version, and it was Terry > > Olesons work that boosted my interest and study of the > > European / Nogier system. It truely is an excellent text. > > > > Thanks for the link, > > > > David White. > > Clinical Director / Practitioner > > Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & > > Founder SydneyTCM > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Attilio > > D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > > Hi David, > > > > > > I wrote a critique on the use of auricular acupuncture in the > > treatment of > > > cocaine/crack abuse which was published in the JACM Dec > > 2004, see > > > http://www.attiliodalberto.com/articlesenglish.htm I hope you > > find it > > > interesting. > > > > > > A very good auricular acupuncture book is Terry Oleson's > > 'Auriculotherapy > > > Manual', ISBN 0-443-07162-4. > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > > BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM > > > 07786198900 > > > attiliodalberto > > > <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com > > > > > > " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, > > a part > > > limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his > > thoughts and > > > feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of > > optical > > > illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Chinese Medicine On > > Behalf Of sydneytcm > > > 27 May 2005 14:50 > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Auriculotherapy > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > My name is David White, i practice alot of Auriculotherapy in my > > > clinic and i would be very interested in the practlitioners of > this > > > forums' experiences and knowledge on this well known > > > micro-system of Acupuncture. Do any of you practice it? And if > > so, > > > do you combine it with body Acupuncture or use it solo?? > > > > > > I have found that i mostly use it for pain, and as an adjunct to > > > other TCM modalities. I am, however, getting more and more > > > interested in AcuDetox programs and the like. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > David White > > > > > > Clinical Director / Principal Practitioner > > > Macquarie St. Clinic of Acupuncture & > > > Director SydneyTCM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link > > page, > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine/joi > > n and adjust > > > accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication > > outside the group > > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > > academics, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2005 Report Share Posted May 29, 2005 Here is some more information on the evolution of the NADA protocols. I don't have 100% of the story as Michael seems to like to leave some details to speculation just for fun. Dr. Michael Smith is a psychiatrist who specialized in treatment of drug abuse. At one NADA-style facility I worked at in Los Angeles' Skid-Row, I saw research papers Michael had written in the 1960's where he was observing/researching/helping people who were overdosing or having bad drug experiences at concerts and the like in San Francisco. In other words, he has worked at the street level on the drug phenomenon since that time. He had a partner (I believe a senior partner) and they ran a methadone clinic for heroin addicts at the Lincoln hospital in New York's South Bronx area - a very bad part of town. They heard about acupuncture being used to treat opium addicts in China (perhaps Hong Kong?) and went there to observe as they thought it could be helpful for heroin addicts as the substances are in the same family. They were impressed with what they saw and came back and began experimenting with different protocols. They tried using differential diagnosis (I believe with licensed acupuncturists doing the treatments) and body points but eventually found by trial and error that ear points seemed to work the best. They may well have been influenced Wen as the Lung point was stressed as very important but overall, Michael talks about how much more effective the points on the concave (yin) aspects of the ear are than the raised (yang) points. Most of the points are those that deal with elimination/detoxification - lung, liver, and kidney. Shen-men of course helps deal with emotional/spiritual issues. Some NADA clinics used a variation and may have only used 3 or 4 points with lung, shen-men, and liver or kidney points being always used. Now here is the remarkable part of the story: Within a year or so of experimenting with acupuncture, they did away with methadone entirely and only used acupuncture for detox. Their success rate went up and the clinic grew in popularity with addicts. It did not grow in popularity with the local drug dealers however, who began experiencing a loss of business. They began threatening the two doctors who continued their work. One morning - the legend goes - Michael comes into work and finds his partner stuffed in a closet - shot full of heroin - murdered by the drug dealers. Michael takes over the clinic and continues the work despite continued threats on his life. Another aspect of the story that bears attention is the professional animosity Michael was subject to because of his work. He was brutally ridiculed by his psychiatrist/drug specialist colleagues for using this protocol. They thought he was a hippie, California flake and he was laughed off stage at conferences and ripped in journals. He was also vilified by the acupuncture profession here in the states because he was not a licensed acupuncturist (he eventually took and passed the NCCAOM exams) and he used a set protocol of points instead of individualized treatment. Leaders of acupuncture organizations and others made him out to be an enemy of the profession because he taught drug counselors to do the needling. Of course, he was taking this protocol to any jail, Indian reservation, or otherwise destitute place that would have him and there were no acupuncturists there to do the treatments, but that didn't seem to matter to our profession's self-appointed leaders. After working with Michael, I came to appreciate just how important the whole NADA protocol was. It is MUCH more than a set of ear points. Every aspect of a NADA-style clinic has been refined to improve success. Even the name " NADA " , which is Spanish means " nothing " , reflects Michael's Taoist perspective and the counseling skills and manner in which the clinic is managed are crucial to this protocol. Many acupuncturists thought the success of this protocol was due to the acupuncture alone and that Michael took advantage of this to become famous even though he was not an acupuncturist himself. I know this to be true because I was involved with trying to smooth-out relations with these acupuncture groups who were fighting against NADA clinics using councilors to do acupuncture. Michael tried to tell these people that they should be more concerned with having acupuncturists run these types of programs rather than worry about who is doing the needling. Here in California, NADA can still not get legislation passed allowing drug councilors to do NADA treatments. Although I stress how important the entire NADA clinic/counseling protocol is, Michael will be the first one to point out that the acupuncture is crucial. And while I believe Michael is a truly remarkable man who has almost single-handedly done more to help one of the most socially scorned classes of society, he will emphasize that the story of NADA's development is a team effort involving many people over many years. While I have met several doctors/healers in our field whose work I admire, I can't think of anyone who has had to undergo more ridicule and resistance than Michael while pioneering treatment for a segment of society few would bother with. Those in the acupuncture profession who were so quick to point out that he was a psychiatrist - not an acupuncturist - when they were fighting against him, should consider themselves lucky that Michael considers himself an acupuncturist now that the NADA protocols have brought the practice of acupuncture worldwide attention. - Musiclear Chinese Medicine Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:04 AM Re: NADA and Crack Abuse In a message dated 5/28/2005 6:24:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, attiliodalberto writes: I never managed to find how the 5 point NADA protocol was actually formulated. I went to NY a few years ago and worked in the original NADA clinic under the original author of the protocol. It was great! Although most of the people int he cliic were court enforced, they all seemed to be genuinely happy to be there. In a life style that people can be a little " hard " , most of these people were patient, generous and appreciative. As far as I remember, the story of the beginning of NADA goes like this. A patient came to the hospital and needed some work that would be painful but because of a drug dependency, the DR. decided on acupuncture for pain control. The patient was currently craving drugs, but when the Dr. put the needles in, the patient mentioned the " DT's " went away. Being intrigued, the Dr. put a hold on the procedure and asked the patient to let him know when the craving returned. When that happened, the Dr. retreated. Over time, the Dr. experimented with different points to find a consistent protocol that would help most people. The five points he came up with is the current NADA protocol. That is a pretty close remembrance of the " story " . I can't remember exactly why the patient was in the hospital, but you get the gist of it. Hope that helps, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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