Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Hi Dave, I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them and are not that potent. Hope that helps. Attilio www.attiliodalberto.com David Gordon <junhengclinic wrote: I and a fellow practitioner both find that using the standard moxa sticks irritates our lungs. My colleague has given up and uses a magic lamp, but I have soldiered on. The stuff I am using has " China National Medicines & Health Products Imp & Exp Corp Hunan Branch " written on the side. How many other people find this? Are the more superior grades of moxa less irritating? Can anyone recommend particular makes and/or distributors? Thank you for any thoughts. Best regards, David Gordon http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Thanks for that Attilio. Actually, I forgot to mention that I have some smokeless moxa (called " Wuyan Jiutiao " ) in my supplies, but I've seldom used it as it looks so uninspiring - just looks like a piece of charcoal. Looks more 'mineral' than 'vegetable'. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and try it out on some patients. Is that what your stuff is like? David Chinese Medicine , Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them and are not that potent. > > Hope that helps. > > Attilio > www.attiliodalberto.com > > David Gordon <junhengclinic> wrote: > I and a fellow practitioner both find that using the standard moxa > sticks irritates our lungs. My colleague has given up and uses a magic > lamp, but I have soldiered on. The stuff I am using has " China National > Medicines & Health Products Imp & Exp Corp Hunan Branch " written on the > side. > > How many other people find this? Are the more superior grades of moxa > less irritating? Can anyone recommend particular makes and/or > distributors? > > Thank you for any thoughts. > > Best regards, David Gordon > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Hi Dave, Yes, that sounds similar. Give it a try. You may be interested in a electric moxa machine. Small little unit, with a number of channels that lead to a hollow plug. Instead, you put the moxa and turn it on. A small electrical charge heats up the moxa. You can use the same bit of moxa for a week-month. No smoke. The only problem with this machine is that its a bit difficult to fix the plugs on the patient. Also, it lacks any CE certificate, no for insurance its a bit risky. You also have to be careful as the moxa plugs can heat up alot and burn the skin. But otherwise, its a great little machine which directs the moxa to a specific location, is concentrated and has good results. I've only ever seen it available for sale in China, that's where i bought my one. Attilio www.attiliodalberto.com David Gordon <junhengclinic wrote: Thanks for that Attilio. Actually, I forgot to mention that I have some smokeless moxa (called " Wuyan Jiutiao " ) in my supplies, but I've seldom used it as it looks so uninspiring - just looks like a piece of charcoal. Looks more 'mineral' than 'vegetable'. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and try it out on some patients. Is that what your stuff is like? David Chinese Medicine , Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them and are not that potent. > > Hope that helps. > > Attilio > www.attiliodalberto.com > > David Gordon <junhengclinic> wrote: > I and a fellow practitioner both find that using the standard moxa > sticks irritates our lungs. My colleague has given up and uses a magic > lamp, but I have soldiered on. The stuff I am using has " China National > Medicines & Health Products Imp & Exp Corp Hunan Branch " written on the > side. > > How many other people find this? Are the more superior grades of moxa > less irritating? Can anyone recommend particular makes and/or > distributors? > > Thank you for any thoughts. > > Best regards, David Gordon > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Another suggestion on the issue of moxa smoke is to invest in a quality air filter for your treatment rooms. Even the smokeless moxa sticks put out some unpleasant smoke. A good HEPA filter will clear out a small treatment room in minutes and no - I do not recommend any particular brand. There are many to chose from and they will have information about how much air they filter in what period of time. - Matt Bauer - Attilio D'Alberto Chinese Medicine Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:55 AM Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs Hi Dave, Yes, that sounds similar. Give it a try. You may be interested in a electric moxa machine. Small little unit, with a number of channels that lead to a hollow plug. Instead, you put the moxa and turn it on. A small electrical charge heats up the moxa. You can use the same bit of moxa for a week-month. No smoke. The only problem with this machine is that its a bit difficult to fix the plugs on the patient. Also, it lacks any CE certificate, no for insurance its a bit risky. You also have to be careful as the moxa plugs can heat up alot and burn the skin. But otherwise, its a great little machine which directs the moxa to a specific location, is concentrated and has good results. I've only ever seen it available for sale in China, that's where i bought my one. Attilio www.attiliodalberto.com David Gordon <junhengclinic wrote: Thanks for that Attilio. Actually, I forgot to mention that I have some smokeless moxa (called " Wuyan Jiutiao " ) in my supplies, but I've seldom used it as it looks so uninspiring - just looks like a piece of charcoal. Looks more 'mineral' than 'vegetable'. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and try it out on some patients. Is that what your stuff is like? David Chinese Medicine , Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them and are not that potent. > > Hope that helps. > > Attilio > www.attiliodalberto.com > > David Gordon <junhengclinic> wrote: > I and a fellow practitioner both find that using the standard moxa > sticks irritates our lungs. My colleague has given up and uses a magic > lamp, but I have soldiered on. The stuff I am using has " China National > Medicines & Health Products Imp & Exp Corp Hunan Branch " written on the > side. > > How many other people find this? Are the more superior grades of moxa > less irritating? Can anyone recommend particular makes and/or > distributors? > > Thank you for any thoughts. > > Best regards, David Gordon > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Also, for a very good strong effect try using three or four sticks bound together. Light them using a device (cant recall the name) which is available in kitchen supply shops. Bit like a Bunsen burner but re-fillable with lighter fluid, usually used to brown the top of crème Brule's. Unbeatable for speed, just don’t light it in the same room as your patient as it will scare the hell out of them! Regards Ray Ford Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of David Gordon Saturday, 21 May 2005 10:37 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs Thanks for that Attilio. Actually, I forgot to mention that I have some smokeless moxa (called " Wuyan Jiutiao " ) in my supplies, but I've seldom used it as it looks so uninspiring - just looks like a piece of charcoal. Looks more 'mineral' than 'vegetable'. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and try it out on some patients. Is that what your stuff is like? David Chinese Medicine , Attilio D'Alberto <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them and are not that potent. > > Hope that helps. > > Attilio > www.attiliodalberto.com > > David Gordon <junhengclinic> wrote: > I and a fellow practitioner both find that using the standard moxa > sticks irritates our lungs. My colleague has given up and uses a magic > lamp, but I have soldiered on. The stuff I am using has " China National > Medicines & Health Products Imp & Exp Corp Hunan Branch " written on the > side. > > How many other people find this? Are the more superior grades of moxa > less irritating? Can anyone recommend particular makes and/or > distributors? > > Thank you for any thoughts. > > Best regards, David Gordon > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/ > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Do other scents aromas also irritate? Holmes. David Gordon wrote: > I and a fellow practitioner both find that using the standard moxa > sticks irritates our lungs. My colleague has given up and uses a magic > lamp, but I have soldiered on. The stuff I am using has " China National > Medicines & Health Products Imp & Exp Corp Hunan Branch " written on the > side. > > How many other people find this? Are the more superior grades of moxa > less irritating? Can anyone recommend particular makes and/or > distributors? > > Thank you for any thoughts. > > Best regards, David Gordon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 just don’t light it in the same room as your patient as it will scare the hell out of them! Did someone say barbeque? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 I use smokeless moxa, and it seems to get the job done. Anyone else feel like it doesn't work as well? Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote: > > just don't light it in the same room as > your patient as it will scare the hell out of them! > > Did someone say barbeque? > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Mike, we are famous for barbies here. Ray Ford Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike Bowser Sunday, 22 May 2005 3:15 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Moxibustion irritating the lungs just don't light it in the same room as your patient as it will scare the hell out of them! Did someone say barbeque? Mike W. Bowser, L Ac http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Attilio, A few years ago the Chinese did a study of smokeless moxa sticks (different brand), and found that they released large amounts of carbon monoxide, so perhaps they are not so ideal. On May 21, 2005, at 4:00 AM, Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the > smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', > made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in > the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but > are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them > and are not that potent. > > Hope that helps. > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 It may work ok, but the alleged carbon monoxide, plus experiences in school clinics seeing pieces of the moxa stick suddenly break and fall off onto patients or tables turned me off to them. The ones I saw (and tried for a brief period) lit unevenly, burned unevenly, and consumed all the oxygen in the treatment room. On May 21, 2005, at 3:24 PM, heylaurag wrote: > I use smokeless moxa, and it seems to get the job done. Anyone else > feel like it doesn't work as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Hi people I'm combining all this on one email to conserve bandwidth:- Attilio, thank you for your recommendations to smokeless moxa and the special moxa machine. I'm trying out the smokeless now; the latter sounds intriguing and I'll keep my eyes open for one of these. Matt, thank you for your suggestion of quality air extraction: unfortunately this is out of budget at the moment, but could be the way ahead later. Ray, after I read your description of using 4 sticks at once I couldn't help visualizing the possibility of doing away with the moxa and just using the torch I can see the advert: " TCM; moxibust ALL your problems away! " [i'm only kidding - before someone tries it!!!] Dr Keikobad. Thank you for your enquiry. I don't think anything else irritates; it's not bad, but hey who wants this every day. BUT, posting my question on the forum yesterday emboldened me to experiment on myself with just a lump of moxa on the needle (with no paper). I don't think there was any reaction. MAYBE the problem is the paper (around the moxa stick) burning. Z'ev: your comments about smokeless moxa's carbon monoxide emissions are concerning; does anyone else have information on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Hey David, I laugh too, but doing moxa on really cold patients with one stick is pointless, lamps do not penetrate as well, still I use these also. The 'barbeque' method is employed from time to time when I really want to use moxa STICKS. It can be lit using the burner VERY quickly and applied with deep penetration without waving one stick around for an eternity, thereby saving time. As for harmful emissions, here the weather is rarely freezing as some parts of the world so I just open the windows and doors which clears the room in moments, it's a very quick procedure but very effective. Regards Ray Ford Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of David Gordon Sunday, 22 May 2005 3:07 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs Hi people I'm combining all this on one email to conserve bandwidth:- Attilio, thank you for your recommendations to smokeless moxa and the special moxa machine. I'm trying out the smokeless now; the latter sounds intriguing and I'll keep my eyes open for one of these. Matt, thank you for your suggestion of quality air extraction: unfortunately this is out of budget at the moment, but could be the way ahead later. Ray, after I read your description of using 4 sticks at once I couldn't help visualizing the possibility of doing away with the moxa and just using the torch I can see the advert: " TCM; moxibust ALL your problems away! " [i'm only kidding - before someone tries it!!!] Dr Keikobad. Thank you for your enquiry. I don't think anything else irritates; it's not bad, but hey who wants this every day. BUT, posting my question on the forum yesterday emboldened me to experiment on myself with just a lump of moxa on the needle (with no paper). I don't think there was any reaction. MAYBE the problem is the paper (around the moxa stick) burning. Z'ev: your comments about smokeless moxa's carbon monoxide emissions are concerning; does anyone else have information on this? http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 At 09:25 PM 5/21/05 -0700, you wrote: >It may work ok, but the alleged carbon monoxide, plus experiences in >school clinics seeing pieces of the moxa stick suddenly break and >fall off onto patients or tables turned me off to them. The ones I >saw (and tried for a brief period) lit unevenly, burned unevenly, and >consumed all the oxygen in the treatment room. > > I've used smokeless moxa often for years. Don't have the information here, but a common brand (e.g. from Helio or Supply Company) has consistently good quality -- burns evenly, doesn't break off, etc. Of course, it takes a bit of skill (the general meaning of " gong fu " ) in using and respecting it (fire). E.g. using a piece of foil and ashtray on top, with one of those metal moxa extinguishers with a bevel in the top so the moxa stick can also be laid down on it on its side while still burning. With good quality sticks one has to light it well, gently tap or brush (against edge of holder (on ashtray on foil) to clear the white ash. (It burns like charcoal -- glows red through chemical " reduction " to form the white ash.) Again, it takes some cultivation/skill, but not rocket science. I've never noticed any CO effects, having good ventilation. IMO, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Hi Zev, Yes, I wouldn't be surprised. Being an asthmatic all my life, I'm particularly sensitive to air quality, temperature and oxygen content. I've used smokeless moxa in a small treatment room for long periods of time with no ventilation and had no problems. I really can't use the traditional ones, the smoke literally kills me. I must get my electric moxa machine out but it does look like it lacks in quality, being made in Chinese, if you know what I mean. Kind regards, Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM 07786198900 attiliodalberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com " A human being is part of the whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest - - a kind of optical illusion in his consciousness. " (Albert Einstein) Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Z'ev Rosenberg 22 May 2005 05:19 Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs Attilio, A few years ago the Chinese did a study of smokeless moxa sticks (different brand), and found that they released large amounts of carbon monoxide, so perhaps they are not so ideal. On May 21, 2005, at 4:00 AM, Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I'm an asthmatic so can't use the standard moxa. I use the > smokeless variety. Called 'Smokeless Moxibustion Ointment Sticks', > made by Suzhou Shenlong Medical Factory, available from ShiZhen in > the UK. They take a while to get burning with a naked flame, but > are fine after that. Only a slight amount of smoke comes of them > and are not that potent. > > Hope that helps. > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Sounds good as we head into our summer barbeque season here as well. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " ray ford " <rford >Chinese Medicine ><Chinese Medicine > >RE: Moxibustion irritating the lungs >Sun, 22 May 2005 12:19:00 +1000 > >Mike, we are famous for barbies here. >Ray Ford > > >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike >Bowser >Sunday, 22 May 2005 3:15 AM >Chinese Medicine >RE: Moxibustion irritating the lungs > > >just don't light it in the same room as >your patient as it will scare the hell out of them! > >Did someone say barbeque? > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > >http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and >adjust accordingly. > >Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >group requires prior permission from the author. > >If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 I'm sure you will get a variety of opinions on this. I don't feel that it works as well. My understanding is that the vapors of the burning artemesiae (and what other herbs may be contained in a particular brand) plus the Yang heat are penetrating the area and instigating the influences of the acupuncture point. And I am sure there are some who will say that in certain situations the heat alone is sufficient. Maybe even me! That being said I tried the smokeless poles years ago and didn't find them adequate. Maybe to give patients for home treatment. I use mostly the stick ons and direct applications. I found the poles too heavy...especially when at the end of the day I am in a checkout line at food store and I sort of smell like I just got high! and I got headaches. I would be interested if anyone on this list has witnessed the use of smokeless moxa in Chinese hospitals and to what extent it was used. I wish there was a small strong smoke purifier shaped like a handheld hair dryer with a long venting tube which could be stuck into a small vent hole in an exterior wall. Simple. I'd pay hundreds for one if it worked well. My belief is if you're going to practice Acupuncture and Moxibustion get it together! And I speak to myself as well. - heylaurag Chinese Medicine Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:24 PM Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs I use smokeless moxa, and it seems to get the job done. Anyone else feel like it doesn't work as well? Chinese Medicine , " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote: > > just don't light it in the same room as > your patient as it will scare the hell out of them! > > Did someone say barbeque? > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Hi David, I don't know about CO emissions with smokeless moxa, but I can't abide the charcoal smell myself. Have you ever tried the " Tiger Warmer " ? - I use the sticks sometimes, without the metal warmer, to heat individual points. They are more compressed than the usual moxa sticks (and much smaller so, again, not very good for warming large areas) - so they seem to burn a little more cleanly (and have a smaller stream of smoke). And they smell much nicer than anything. I like direct moxa, too, but I believe it is verboten (by my malpractice insurance). I think the TDP lamp is a good suggestion for warming larger areas. Nora David Gordon wrote: > Hi people > > I'm combining all this on one email to conserve bandwidth:- > > Attilio, thank you for your recommendations to smokeless moxa and the > special moxa machine. I'm trying out the smokeless now; the latter > sounds intriguing and I'll keep my eyes open for one of these. > > Matt, thank you for your suggestion of quality air extraction: > unfortunately this is out of budget at the moment, but could be the > way ahead later. > > Ray, after I read your description of using 4 sticks at once I > couldn't help visualizing the possibility of doing away with the moxa > and just using the torch I can see the advert: " TCM; moxibust ALL > your problems away! " [i'm only kidding - before someone tries it!!!] > > Dr Keikobad. Thank you for your enquiry. I don't think anything else > irritates; it's not bad, but hey who wants this every day. BUT, > posting my question on the forum yesterday emboldened me to > experiment on myself with just a lump of moxa on the needle (with no > paper). I don't think there was any reaction. MAYBE the problem is > the paper (around the moxa stick) burning. > > Z'ev: your comments about smokeless moxa's carbon monoxide emissions > are concerning; does anyone else have information on this? > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 ---- Turiya Hill 05/23/05 17:50:03 Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs I would be interested if anyone on this list has witnessed the use of smokeless moxa in Chinese hospitals and to what extent it was used. I wish there was a small strong smoke purifier shaped like a handheld hair dryer with a long venting tube which could be stuck into a small vent hole in an exterior wall. Simple. I'd pay hundreds for one if it worked well. (Tom) Well, you wouldn't believe it, Turiya, but just today I spoke with a representative of an air-filter company. What he suggested me to use is what you described above: a funnel of varying diameters on a mechanical arm leading to a suspension with an extractor fan. He could not give me a link, but he promised to look into it and send me a catalog by postal mail. He told me that this is a system frequently used by welders and in medical laboratories. I have no idea how much it would cost or anything, or how it looks, but if you like I could send you some references when I get them? The mechanical arm would be more interesting since less heat is sucked away by it, as compared to the big cooker hoods. Gordon Peck published an article in the Journal of , named " moxa smoke and the acupuncturist " . His conclusion was that extraction close to the source of the moxa smoke worked best. I can send the article, if anyone wishes to read it. When I was in China, I have never seen anyone use smokeless moxa. Just the usual moxa, and heaps of it. A friend of mine had to interrupt her internship because she was allergic to the thick smoke. Thick smoke, plus the thick smoke of the doctors' and the patients' cigarettes : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Just a few suggestions on moxa treatment 1. Use a small hand operated roll your own cigarette machine using your best quality, (maybe sieve the punk moxa), plus or minus the herbs you like. It will burn with less smoke without the rough twigs etc. These 'cigarettes' can be given/sold to patients for home use. You can also pinch off small bits for burning atop needles (although there is an easier technique of rolling the punk moxa into a ball and placing on the needle), - please find someone to show you this or experiment on to fruit until you have the technique down; there are books explain these techniques in English. 2. Learn direct moxa. Perhaps if properly qualified it would be accepted by a person's insurance company. With the moxa techniques I now have, I would never go back to a moxa box with a room full of smoke. The tiger warmer is excellent to create heat with next to no smoke, in lieu of pole moxa. 3. Use a hand held hairdryer with a piece of cardboard with one or more sized holes in it. Blow the hot air through the holes to warm the area. Best wishes, Chinese Medicine Chinese MedicineOn Behalf Of Nora Tuesday, 24 May 2005 1:49 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs Hi David, I don't know about CO emissions with smokeless moxa, but I can't abide the charcoal smell myself. Have you ever tried the " Tiger Warmer " ? - I use the sticks sometimes, without the metal warmer, to heat individual points. They are more compressed than the usual moxa sticks (and much smaller so, again, not very good for warming large areas) - so they seem to burn a little more cleanly (and have a smaller stream of smoke). And they smell much nicer than anything. I like direct moxa, too, but I believe it is verboten (by my malpractice insurance). I think the TDP lamp is a good suggestion for warming larger areas. Nora David Gordon wrote: > Hi people > > I'm combining all this on one email to conserve bandwidth:- > > Attilio, thank you for your recommendations to smokeless moxa and the > special moxa machine. I'm trying out the smokeless now; the latter > sounds intriguing and I'll keep my eyes open for one of these. > > Matt, thank you for your suggestion of quality air extraction: > unfortunately this is out of budget at the moment, but could be the > way ahead later. > > Ray, after I read your description of using 4 sticks at once I > couldn't help visualizing the possibility of doing away with the moxa > and just using the torch I can see the advert: " TCM; moxibust ALL > your problems away! " [i'm only kidding - before someone tries it!!!] > > Dr Keikobad. Thank you for your enquiry. I don't think anything else > irritates; it's not bad, but hey who wants this every day. BUT, > posting my question on the forum yesterday emboldened me to > experiment on myself with just a lump of moxa on the needle (with no > paper). I don't think there was any reaction. MAYBE the problem is > the paper (around the moxa stick) burning. > > Z'ev: your comments about smokeless moxa's carbon monoxide emissions > are concerning; does anyone else have information on this? > > > > > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 All you really need is a small carbon-filter air purifier. If you hold the unit just above the smoke; smoke goes in and clean air blows out. You should be able to find one small but powerful enough to work. - Matt - Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Monday, May 23, 2005 12:36 PM Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs ---- Turiya Hill 05/23/05 17:50:03 Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs I would be interested if anyone on this list has witnessed the use of smokeless moxa in Chinese hospitals and to what extent it was used. I wish there was a small strong smoke purifier shaped like a handheld hair dryer with a long venting tube which could be stuck into a small vent hole in an exterior wall. Simple. I'd pay hundreds for one if it worked well. (Tom) Well, you wouldn't believe it, Turiya, but just today I spoke with a representative of an air-filter company. What he suggested me to use is what you described above: a funnel of varying diameters on a mechanical arm leading to a suspension with an extractor fan. He could not give me a link, but he promised to look into it and send me a catalog by postal mail. He told me that this is a system frequently used by welders and in medical laboratories. I have no idea how much it would cost or anything, or how it looks, but if you like I could send you some references when I get them? The mechanical arm would be more interesting since less heat is sucked away by it, as compared to the big cooker hoods. Gordon Peck published an article in the Journal of , named " moxa smoke and the acupuncturist " . His conclusion was that extraction close to the source of the moxa smoke worked best. I can send the article, if anyone wishes to read it. When I was in China, I have never seen anyone use smokeless moxa. Just the usual moxa, and heaps of it. A friend of mine had to interrupt her internship because she was allergic to the thick smoke. Thick smoke, plus the thick smoke of the doctors' and the patients' cigarettes : ) http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Dear Tom, I'd love to read the article. I just enter a different dimension when in the presence of moxa.... it is not a very awakened state........! it makes me intensly sleepy all the best Verena please visit my web site www.giftofhealth.com - Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Monday, May 23, 2005 3:36 PM Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs ---- Turiya Hill 05/23/05 17:50:03 Chinese Medicine Re: Moxibustion irritating the lungs I would be interested if anyone on this list has witnessed the use of smokeless moxa in Chinese hospitals and to what extent it was used. I wish there was a small strong smoke purifier shaped like a handheld hair dryer with a long venting tube which could be stuck into a small vent hole in an exterior wall. Simple. I'd pay hundreds for one if it worked well. (Tom) Well, you wouldn't believe it, Turiya, but just today I spoke with a representative of an air-filter company. What he suggested me to use is what you described above: a funnel of varying diameters on a mechanical arm leading to a suspension with an extractor fan. He could not give me a link, but he promised to look into it and send me a catalog by postal mail. He told me that this is a system frequently used by welders and in medical laboratories. I have no idea how much it would cost or anything, or how it looks, but if you like I could send you some references when I get them? The mechanical arm would be more interesting since less heat is sucked away by it, as compared to the big cooker hoods. Gordon Peck published an article in the Journal of , named " moxa smoke and the acupuncturist " . His conclusion was that extraction close to the source of the moxa smoke worked best. I can send the article, if anyone wishes to read it. When I was in China, I have never seen anyone use smokeless moxa. Just the usual moxa, and heaps of it. A friend of mine had to interrupt her internship because she was allergic to the thick smoke. Thick smoke, plus the thick smoke of the doctors' and the patients' cigarettes : ) http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 Any out of the ordinary reaction to an aroma can mean a LU yin def condition, granted, but that could also mean a HT yin def condition, which till now may not have been diagnosed. I have LU yin def patients who react to the slightest hint of perfume with a firm rejection, and to moxa smoke but to a lesser extent. Possibly this is because perfumery has a basis in alcohol or spirit, and this partaking of acid, and therefore Fire element, has a antithetic effect of LU people, whereas moxa arises from Wood who is Step Son to Metal.. I have learned through long experience to look up a HT bias in every LU yin def patient, even one whose tendency to asthma has been established. If Metal has injured Metal, this can be easily mended however old the illness. If Fire has injured Metal, this can be easily mended however old the illness but only by tending to the Fire yin.. Dr. Holmes www.acu-free.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2005 Report Share Posted May 24, 2005 This sentence did not turn out well in my last post. Here is the corrected version. Apologies. 'I have learned through long experience to look up a HT bias in every LU yin def patient, even one whose tendency to asthma has been established due to Metal def from Metal def, or from SP Mother not nourishing.' In any long drawn out case of LU yin def who is reacting to aroma in a certain way, a quick look at HT yin is mandatory. Many a HT yin def condition remains silent causing very visible problems on LU, and treatment which tends to Metal remains palliative at best. If a HT bias is indeed discovered, the most chronic case of LU yin def presenting with it's 101 symptoms, including an aberrant sense of smell and an ongoing asthmatic basis, settles down dramatically. The finest parameter of assessing a LU yin xu condition under treatment is by the sense of smell, the degree of dyspnea and, this one is odd but useful, the extent to which the person perspires, esp out of the armpit, or can step out into the sun, when in the tropics. Holmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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