Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. Laura Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Hi Laura, > Yes good question. > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong Chinese > style needling. > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious stomach qi > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a symptomatic > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > Best wishes, > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > Friday, 25 March 2005 5:44 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Morning sickness > > > > Hi Sharon and all, > > I wonder why we are always told that Sp 6 is contraindicated in > pregnancy when so many practitioners seem to use it safely? Any > thoughts anyone? > > Laura > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > David, > > I have just completed treatment number two for a women with all day > morning > > sickness, she has reduced the morning sickness over 50% from the first > > treatment and can now drink water and eat without throwing up. > > > > The approach was to use Yin Qiao extra ordinary vessel. One of its > > applications is for counter flow qi. > > > > I follow this with direct moxa to Sp 6 and taped intradermals to Sp 6. > > > > I also mentioned to her to add a little fresh lemon juice, sugar and > salt to > > water to settle the stomach. > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > nicolehohmann [nicolehohmann] > > Thursday, 24 March 2005 6:56 AM > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > David, > > I have had good results with P6, Ren 12 or 14 palpating for > > tenderness, st 36 , sp9 without alot of manual stimulation. But no > > lower abdominal points. > > In severe cases Huo Xiang Zheng Qi tang for a few days completely > > turned around a case where the lady was vomiting daily and could > > hardly eat anything. But I consider that somewhat aggressive for a > > severe situation. I have found that ginger isn't very effective for > > alot of people and acupressure is not usually done by the patient > > with enough force to benefit as much as acupuncture. > > Nicole Hohmann > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo > > <d1tarlo> wrote: > > > Your experience will help, > > > > > > Having not treated Morning Sickness in pregnancy, I > > > would appreciate some help from your experience... and > > > it would benefit everyone else.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David Tarlo, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > and > adjust > > accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > the group > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 I usually use sp6 to tonify, and sp9 to reduce dampness instead. BTW, what do you mean by very very tonifying technique, Laura? Mike L. heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. Laura Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Hi Laura, > Yes good question. > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong Chinese > style needling. > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious stomach qi > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a symptomatic > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > Best wishes, > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > Friday, 25 March 2005 5:44 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Morning sickness > > > > Hi Sharon and all, > > I wonder why we are always told that Sp 6 is contraindicated in > pregnancy when so many practitioners seem to use it safely? Any > thoughts anyone? > > Laura > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > David, > > I have just completed treatment number two for a women with all day > morning > > sickness, she has reduced the morning sickness over 50% from the first > > treatment and can now drink water and eat without throwing up. > > > > The approach was to use Yin Qiao extra ordinary vessel. One of its > > applications is for counter flow qi. > > > > I follow this with direct moxa to Sp 6 and taped intradermals to Sp 6. > > > > I also mentioned to her to add a little fresh lemon juice, sugar and > salt to > > water to settle the stomach. > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > nicolehohmann [nicolehohmann] > > Thursday, 24 March 2005 6:56 AM > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > David, > > I have had good results with P6, Ren 12 or 14 palpating for > > tenderness, st 36 , sp9 without alot of manual stimulation. But no > > lower abdominal points. > > In severe cases Huo Xiang Zheng Qi tang for a few days completely > > turned around a case where the lady was vomiting daily and could > > hardly eat anything. But I consider that somewhat aggressive for a > > severe situation. I have found that ginger isn't very effective for > > alot of people and acupressure is not usually done by the patient > > with enough force to benefit as much as acupuncture. > > Nicole Hohmann > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo > > <d1tarlo> wrote: > > > Your experience will help, > > > > > > Having not treated Morning Sickness in pregnancy, I > > > would appreciate some help from your experience... and > > > it would benefit everyone else.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David Tarlo, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > and > adjust > > accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > the group > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hi Laura, What follows are my mental imaging for making treatment, usually there is no needle insertion. I hope they may help you find your way with your techniques. Strong tonification means to me you have to go softly softly. It is like adding precious water to a glass, too much, too fast, too hard and the glass vessel may break. This tonification usually happens on yin channels. I typically use silver needles. Sometimes I just hear a song in my head and I work with its tune whilst on the point, this takes very little effort directly from me. For draining there are two thoughts, one is that I have to support the normal frequency in the channel, bit like getting rid of the white noise when tuning a radio. The other thought is that I am wrapping the rubbish around the tip of my needle from all the way along the channel and I am pulling it out through the point. A strong yet delicate cleaning operation. These techniques I typically make on the yang meridians with stainless steel needles. For the touchy Liver, I usually make a technique for blood stagnation unless the pulse suggests deficiency or the pulse suggest excess. One of the valuable teachings from the Toyohari tradition is to have another person monitoring the pulse whilst you make whatever technique on the point. The feedback from the pulse helps to guide and develop ones technique. Also I can reciprocate and give another practitioner the feedback from the pulse and later we can discuss what we were doing to get which result. With appropriate personalities this is quite a bit of fun. It is called the Kazato method, after the practitioner who I believe developed it. Best wishes, heylaurag [heylaurag] Saturday, 26 March 2005 7:54 AM Chinese Medicine Morning sickness: Sp 6 Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. Laura Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Hi Laura, > Yes good question. > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong Chinese > style needling. > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious stomach qi > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a symptomatic > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > Best wishes, > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > Friday, 25 March 2005 5:44 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Morning sickness > > > > Hi Sharon and all, > > I wonder why we are always told that Sp 6 is contraindicated in > pregnancy when so many practitioners seem to use it safely? Any > thoughts anyone? > > Laura > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > David, > > I have just completed treatment number two for a women with all day > morning > > sickness, she has reduced the morning sickness over 50% from the first > > treatment and can now drink water and eat without throwing up. > > > > The approach was to use Yin Qiao extra ordinary vessel. One of its > > applications is for counter flow qi. > > > > I follow this with direct moxa to Sp 6 and taped intradermals to Sp 6. > > > > I also mentioned to her to add a little fresh lemon juice, sugar and > salt to > > water to settle the stomach. > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > nicolehohmann [nicolehohmann] > > Thursday, 24 March 2005 6:56 AM > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > David, > > I have had good results with P6, Ren 12 or 14 palpating for > > tenderness, st 36 , sp9 without alot of manual stimulation. But no > > lower abdominal points. > > In severe cases Huo Xiang Zheng Qi tang for a few days completely > > turned around a case where the lady was vomiting daily and could > > hardly eat anything. But I consider that somewhat aggressive for a > > severe situation. I have found that ginger isn't very effective for > > alot of people and acupressure is not usually done by the patient > > with enough force to benefit as much as acupuncture. > > Nicole Hohmann > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo > > <d1tarlo> wrote: > > > Your experience will help, > > > > > > Having not treated Morning Sickness in pregnancy, I > > > would appreciate some help from your experience... and > > > it would benefit everyone else.. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David Tarlo, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link page, > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > and > adjust > > accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > the group > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Try this approach: 1. Find a grainy, indurated spot in the vague location of where the point should be, it may have wanderer away in any given direction by as much as 2 cm. 2. Find any remote trigger point by which you can assess the efficacy of treatment. 3. Gently place a # 2 Japanese 0.5 inch needle in the most central part of this induration, which can be as large as 1.5 cm. 4. Insert shallowly, may be .2 mm and let it hang there or stand. 5. Direction does not matter. 6. Soon as your trigger registers a release, remove the needle. 7. No need to plug, just swab with alcohol or whatever you use. With this approach you neither tone nor reduce, the body decides what to do. Holmes. heylaurag wrote: > > Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious > point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I > use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know > it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my > needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is > because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and > St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining > way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its > a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you > drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? > > I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. > > Laura > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > Yes good question. > > > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong > Chinese > > style needling. > > > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious > stomach qi > > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a > symptomatic > > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 The Sensitive Healer! These are born by a certain number, possibly the Moon number, or the one for Venus, or the Deep ones ruled by Saturn. Odd to say, all healers fall into one pf 9 classifications in a simplistic sense. Some will tend to push things, force things, bleed, cup, guasha. Some will look to designs and nuances. Some are hardly aware of deeper energies. Some are intensely sensitive to these and wont heal nay other way. Some will depend on imagery. Some will work by reading and research. Some will innovate and find an easier way. Some will follow older traditions to the letter. Some will use thoughts. Some will use imagery. Some will use words. And so on a full nine variations. Holmes. Sharon wrote: > Hi Laura, > What follows are my mental imaging for making treatment, usually there > is no > needle insertion. I hope they may help you find your way with your > techniques. > > Strong tonification means to me you have to go softly softly. It is like > adding precious water to a glass, too much, too fast, too hard and the > glass > vessel may break. This tonification usually happens on yin channels. I > typically use silver needles. Sometimes I just hear a song in my head > and I > work with its tune whilst on the point, this takes very little effort > directly from me. > > For draining there are two thoughts, one is that I have to support the > normal frequency in the channel, bit like getting rid of the white noise > when tuning a radio. The other thought is that I am wrapping the rubbish > around the tip of my needle from all the way along the channel and I am > pulling it out through the point. A strong yet delicate cleaning > operation. > These techniques I typically make on the yang meridians with stainless > steel > needles. > > For the touchy Liver, I usually make a technique for blood stagnation > unless > the pulse suggests deficiency or the pulse suggest excess. > > One of the valuable teachings from the Toyohari tradition is to have > another > person monitoring the pulse whilst you make whatever technique on the > point. > The feedback from the pulse helps to guide and develop ones technique. > Also > I can reciprocate and give another practitioner the feedback from the > pulse > and later we can discuss what we were doing to get which result. With > appropriate personalities this is quite a bit of fun. It is called the > Kazato method, after the practitioner who I believe developed it. > Best wishes, > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag] > Saturday, 26 March 2005 7:54 AM > Chinese Medicine > Morning sickness: Sp 6 > > > > Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious > point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I > use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know > it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my > needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is > because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and > St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining > way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its > a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you > drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? > > I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. > > Laura > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > Yes good question. > > > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong > Chinese > > style needling. > > > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious > stomach qi > > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a > symptomatic > > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > > Friday, 25 March 2005 5:44 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > Hi Sharon and all, > > > > I wonder why we are always told that Sp 6 is contraindicated in > > pregnancy when so many practitioners seem to use it safely? Any > > thoughts anyone? > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > wrote: > > > David, > > > I have just completed treatment number two for a women with all day > > morning > > > sickness, she has reduced the morning sickness over 50% from the > first > > > treatment and can now drink water and eat without throwing up. > > > > > > The approach was to use Yin Qiao extra ordinary vessel. One of its > > > applications is for counter flow qi. > > > > > > I follow this with direct moxa to Sp 6 and taped intradermals to > Sp 6. > > > > > > I also mentioned to her to add a little fresh lemon juice, sugar and > > salt to > > > water to settle the stomach. > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolehohmann [nicolehohmann] > > > Thursday, 24 March 2005 6:56 AM > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > > > > > David, > > > I have had good results with P6, Ren 12 or 14 palpating for > > > tenderness, st 36 , sp9 without alot of manual stimulation. But no > > > lower abdominal points. > > > In severe cases Huo Xiang Zheng Qi tang for a few days completely > > > turned around a case where the lady was vomiting daily and could > > > hardly eat anything. But I consider that somewhat aggressive for a > > > severe situation. I have found that ginger isn't very > effective for > > > alot of people and acupressure is not usually done by the patient > > > with enough force to benefit as much as acupuncture. > > > Nicole Hohmann > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 heylaurag wrote: > > I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. > Hi Laura! Is it? How many pregnancies per how many cases? Treat woman, man or both? Any other points or modalities used in the case? Very interested in this. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Some, Dr. K., will follow the Broad Path - making no distinctions between the healer and the healed, the method and the event, the time of reckoning or timelessness. - Matt Bauer - dkakobad Chinese Medicine Friday, March 25, 2005 4:22 PM Re: Morning sickness: Sp 6 The Sensitive Healer! These are born by a certain number, possibly the Moon number, or the one for Venus, or the Deep ones ruled by Saturn. Odd to say, all healers fall into one pf 9 classifications in a simplistic sense. Some will tend to push things, force things, bleed, cup, guasha. Some will look to designs and nuances. Some are hardly aware of deeper energies. Some are intensely sensitive to these and wont heal nay other way. Some will depend on imagery. Some will work by reading and research. Some will innovate and find an easier way. Some will follow older traditions to the letter. Some will use thoughts. Some will use imagery. Some will use words. And so on a full nine variations. Holmes. Sharon wrote: > Hi Laura, > What follows are my mental imaging for making treatment, usually there > is no > needle insertion. I hope they may help you find your way with your > techniques. > > Strong tonification means to me you have to go softly softly. It is like > adding precious water to a glass, too much, too fast, too hard and the > glass > vessel may break. This tonification usually happens on yin channels. I > typically use silver needles. Sometimes I just hear a song in my head > and I > work with its tune whilst on the point, this takes very little effort > directly from me. > > For draining there are two thoughts, one is that I have to support the > normal frequency in the channel, bit like getting rid of the white noise > when tuning a radio. The other thought is that I am wrapping the rubbish > around the tip of my needle from all the way along the channel and I am > pulling it out through the point. A strong yet delicate cleaning > operation. > These techniques I typically make on the yang meridians with stainless > steel > needles. > > For the touchy Liver, I usually make a technique for blood stagnation > unless > the pulse suggests deficiency or the pulse suggest excess. > > One of the valuable teachings from the Toyohari tradition is to have > another > person monitoring the pulse whilst you make whatever technique on the > point. > The feedback from the pulse helps to guide and develop ones technique. > Also > I can reciprocate and give another practitioner the feedback from the > pulse > and later we can discuss what we were doing to get which result. With > appropriate personalities this is quite a bit of fun. It is called the > Kazato method, after the practitioner who I believe developed it. > Best wishes, > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag] > Saturday, 26 March 2005 7:54 AM > Chinese Medicine > Morning sickness: Sp 6 > > > > Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious > point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I > use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know > it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my > needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is > because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and > St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining > way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its > a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you > drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? > > I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. > > Laura > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > Yes good question. > > > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong > Chinese > > style needling. > > > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious > stomach qi > > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a > symptomatic > > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > > Friday, 25 March 2005 5:44 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > Hi Sharon and all, > > > > I wonder why we are always told that Sp 6 is contraindicated in > > pregnancy when so many practitioners seem to use it safely? Any > > thoughts anyone? > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > wrote: > > > David, > > > I have just completed treatment number two for a women with all day > > morning > > > sickness, she has reduced the morning sickness over 50% from the > first > > > treatment and can now drink water and eat without throwing up. > > > > > > The approach was to use Yin Qiao extra ordinary vessel. One of its > > > applications is for counter flow qi. > > > > > > I follow this with direct moxa to Sp 6 and taped intradermals to > Sp 6. > > > > > > I also mentioned to her to add a little fresh lemon juice, sugar and > > salt to > > > water to settle the stomach. > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolehohmann [nicolehohmann] > > > Thursday, 24 March 2005 6:56 AM > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > > > > > David, > > > I have had good results with P6, Ren 12 or 14 palpating for > > > tenderness, st 36 , sp9 without alot of manual stimulation. But no > > > lower abdominal points. > > > In severe cases Huo Xiang Zheng Qi tang for a few days completely > > > turned around a case where the lady was vomiting daily and could > > > hardly eat anything. But I consider that somewhat aggressive for a > > > severe situation. I have found that ginger isn't very > effective for > > > alot of people and acupressure is not usually done by the patient > > > with enough force to benefit as much as acupuncture. > > > Nicole Hohmann > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Well said, and said well. Holmes Matt Bauer wrote: > Some, Dr. K., will follow the Broad Path - making no distinctions > between the healer and the healed, the method and the event, the time > of reckoning or timelessness. - Matt Bauer > - > dkakobad > Chinese Medicine > Friday, March 25, 2005 4:22 PM > Re: Morning sickness: Sp 6 > > > The Sensitive Healer! > > These are born by a certain number, possibly the Moon number, or the one > for Venus, > or the Deep ones ruled by Saturn. > > Odd to say, all healers fall into one pf 9 classifications in a > simplistic sense. > > Some will tend to push things, force things, bleed, cup, guasha. > Some will look to designs and nuances. > Some are hardly aware of deeper energies. > Some are intensely sensitive to these and wont heal nay other way. > > Some will depend on imagery. > Some will work by reading and research. > Some will innovate and find an easier way. > Some will follow older traditions to the letter. > > Some will use thoughts. > Some will use imagery. > Some will use words. > And so on a full nine variations. > > Holmes. > > Sharon wrote: > > > Hi Laura, > > What follows are my mental imaging for making treatment, usually there > > is no > > needle insertion. I hope they may help you find your way with your > > techniques. > > > > Strong tonification means to me you have to go softly softly. It is like > > adding precious water to a glass, too much, too fast, too hard and the > > glass > > vessel may break. This tonification usually happens on yin channels. I > > typically use silver needles. Sometimes I just hear a song in my head > > and I > > wor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2005 Report Share Posted March 26, 2005 Hi Mike, Yeah, I use those points in the same way. I tap the points in very gently and don't touch them---can visualize qi going in with the tap. Sometimes if the needle isn't standing up enough after I tap it in I will do one quick thrust in just a tad, and maybe half a turn clockwise. Laura Chinese Medicine , Mike Liaw <mikeliaw> wrote: > I usually use sp6 to tonify, and sp9 to reduce dampness instead. > > BTW, what do you mean by very very tonifying technique, Laura? > > Mike L. > > heylaurag <heylaurag@h...> wrote: > > Hi Sharon, Thanks for the clarification. I think Sp 6 is a mysterious > point. I've heard people use it for all kinds of things, but when I > use it, invariably strong yin and blood tonification occurs. I know > it can be used for dampness, for instance, but apparently with my > needling technique it makes damp conditions worse. I suppose this is > because I use a very, very tonifying technique on points like Sp 6 and > St 36. I would like to experiment with using it in a more draining > way to see how I might integrate it into my treatments. I suspect its > a great point to use with someone who is both yin xu and damp if you > drain it a little. Thoughts anyone? > > I know that moxa on Sp 6 is great for infertility. > > Laura > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > wrote: > > Hi Laura, > > Yes good question. > > > > Perhaps it is in the way the point is treated, or man handled! > > > > It is standard practice in Japan, for Sp 6 to have rice grain moxa daily > > during some stages of pregnancy as 'homework' by the woman. > > > > Furthermore the moxa style is tonifying and not dispersing. > > > > It pays to remember that in Japanese meridian therapy, whilst the > > practitioner may have a sensation at the point, there is no strong > Chinese > > style needling. > > > > It is a three way intersection point of the three leg yin. > > > > On this particular female Px, I did not needle the point, only moxa and > > lightly placed intradermal needle. The point was hard and painful on > > palpation, it was pain free and soft following the rice grain moxa. > > > > So I assume it has the ability to help counter act the rebellious > stomach qi > > in morning sickness. I consider the treatment of Sp 6 to be a > symptomatic > > treatment and the use of Yin Qiao to be the root treatment. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > > Friday, 25 March 2005 5:44 PM > > Chinese Medicine > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > Hi Sharon and all, > > > > I wonder why we are always told that Sp 6 is contraindicated in > > pregnancy when so many practitioners seem to use it safely? Any > > thoughts anyone? > > > > Laura > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > wrote: > > > David, > > > I have just completed treatment number two for a women with all day > > morning > > > sickness, she has reduced the morning sickness over 50% from the > first > > > treatment and can now drink water and eat without throwing up. > > > > > > The approach was to use Yin Qiao extra ordinary vessel. One of its > > > applications is for counter flow qi. > > > > > > I follow this with direct moxa to Sp 6 and taped intradermals to > Sp 6. > > > > > > I also mentioned to her to add a little fresh lemon juice, sugar and > > salt to > > > water to settle the stomach. > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolehohmann [nicolehohmann] > > > Thursday, 24 March 2005 6:56 AM > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Re: Morning sickness > > > > > > > > > > > > David, > > > I have had good results with P6, Ren 12 or 14 palpating for > > > tenderness, st 36 , sp9 without alot of manual stimulation. But no > > > lower abdominal points. > > > In severe cases Huo Xiang Zheng Qi tang for a few days completely > > > turned around a case where the lady was vomiting daily and could > > > hardly eat anything. But I consider that somewhat aggressive for a > > > severe situation. I have found that ginger isn't very > effective for > > > alot of people and acupressure is not usually done by the patient > > > with enough force to benefit as much as acupuncture. > > > Nicole Hohmann > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo > > > <d1tarlo> wrote: > > > > Your experience will help, > > > > > > > > Having not treated Morning Sickness in pregnancy, I > > > > would appreciate some help from your experience... and > > > > it would benefit everyone else.. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > David Tarlo, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web > link page, > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > > > > > > > and > > adjust > > > accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > > the group > > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > > academics, > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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