Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 I've had good luck using Dr.Tan's points and laser (red 660 - 30 mw) on the Ah Shi points. Usually resolves completely in 4-6 treatments. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hello everybody, I need help. I have a patient male, 32 years old, en general good condition, but from 6 month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis (In the insertion of flexors). I've treated with every thing that I've imagined (cups, needles, triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing works, just a little less painful, but the problem remain. Any suggestion? Have to send him for an infiltration? Thanks, Fdo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Is it R or L elbow? Was there an injury? Does he have one shoulder higher than another? A tight GB 21 on the side of pain? Hip pain on contra lateral side? Median fissure on tongue? Dr. Holmes Fernando Dougnac wrote: > Hello everybody, I need help. > > I have a patient male, 32 years old, en general good condition, but from 6 > month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis (In the > insertion of flexors). I've treated with every thing that I've imagined > (cups, needles, triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing > works, just a little less painful, but the problem remain. > > > > Any suggestion? Have to send him for an infiltration? > > > > Thanks, > > Fdo. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Is it R or L elbow? Left Was there an injury? No. Does he have one shoulder higher than another? No. A tight GB 21 on the side of pain? I have to test. Hip pain on contra lateral side? No. Median fissure on tongue? No. Dr. Holmes Fernando Dougnac wrote: > Hello everybody, I need help. > > I have a patient male, 32 years old, en general good condition, but from 6 > month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis (In the > insertion of flexors). I've treated with every thing that I've imagined > (cups, needles, triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing > works, just a little less painful, but the problem remain. > > > > Any suggestion? Have to send him for an infiltration? > > > > Thanks, > > Fdo. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Fernando Dougnac wrote: > > Is it R or L elbow? Left > Was there an injury? No. > Does he have one shoulder higher than another? No. > A tight GB 21 on the side of pain? I have to test. > Hip pain on contra lateral side? No. > Median fissure on tongue? No. > > Dr. Holmes > > Thank you. The challenge is not to treat this by local points but by remote ones which address the precondition and not the presenting symptoms. To reconsider: < male, 32 years old, en general good condition > Is he L handed? Is he athletic, a tennis player? < 6 month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis > That must be in October, when Winter set in, and also Cold. Does Heat help? Does Cold aggravate? Did he sleep on a side, was exposed to cold, rain, snow? This condition has an element of Cold in it, and also K and Water Yin. < I've treated with every thing that I've imagined (cups, needles, triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing works, just a little less painful, but the problem remain. > Either is local and due to Cold because it presented in October, in which case moxa would help. Or it is not a local but a remote problem on the LI channel. One more thought comes to mind. Is he asymmetric in spine? Scoliosis, even a slight one. Checking out the spine will help. Sit in good light, mark each vertebral spine with marker, stand back and see if there is a sway to one or other side. Also palpate Du and Huato points at T 3, 4, 5 [to rule out LU & HT, these go together]. Palpate Shu points at random, for HT, LU, SI. Once saw a similar case where nothing worked. Palpating Mu points found a tender HT and when needled at once gave relief. Dr. Holmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 First, thanks for your help, I hadn't oportunity for test your suggestions, but meanwhile I can give you a little more information. The patient is Left Handed, goes to gym 3 times a week and practice with machines. The pain have a little relief with hot, but not very long. We are in Santiago,Chile (southamerica), the weather is very kind. He not have signs Scoliosis, but I'm going to test the Huato points and Du. Greatings, Fdo. dkakobad [dkaikobad] Lunes, 21 de Marzo de 2005 09:23 a.m. Chinese Medicine Re: Help with elbow epicondilitis... Fernando Dougnac wrote: > > Is it R or L elbow? Left > Was there an injury? No. > Does he have one shoulder higher than another? No. > A tight GB 21 on the side of pain? I have to test. > Hip pain on contra lateral side? No. > Median fissure on tongue? No. > > Dr. Holmes > > Thank you. The challenge is not to treat this by local points but by remote ones which address the precondition and not the presenting symptoms. To reconsider: < male, 32 years old, en general good condition > Is he L handed? Is he athletic, a tennis player? < 6 month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis > That must be in October, when Winter set in, and also Cold. Does Heat help? Does Cold aggravate? Did he sleep on a side, was exposed to cold, rain, snow? This condition has an element of Cold in it, and also K and Water Yin. < I've treated with every thing that I've imagined (cups, needles, triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing works, just a little less painful, but the problem remain. > Either is local and due to Cold because it presented in October, in which case moxa would help. Or it is not a local but a remote problem on the LI channel. One more thought comes to mind. Is he asymmetric in spine? Scoliosis, even a slight one. Checking out the spine will help. Sit in good light, mark each vertebral spine with marker, stand back and see if there is a sway to one or other side. Also palpate Du and Huato points at T 3, 4, 5 [to rule out LU & HT, these go together]. Palpate Shu points at random, for HT, LU, SI. Once saw a similar case where nothing worked. Palpating Mu points found a tender HT and when needled at once gave relief. Dr. Holmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 More information: The patient feel more pain at pressure L GB21 than R GB21. What mean? He have the L shoulder little higher tan R. Thanks, Fdo. dkakobad [dkaikobad] Lunes, 21 de Marzo de 2005 09:23 a.m. Chinese Medicine Re: Help with elbow epicondilitis... Fernando Dougnac wrote: > > Is it R or L elbow? Left > Was there an injury? No. > Does he have one shoulder higher than another? No. > A tight GB 21 on the side of pain? I have to test. > Hip pain on contra lateral side? No. > Median fissure on tongue? No. > > Dr. Holmes > > Thank you. The challenge is not to treat this by local points but by remote ones which address the precondition and not the presenting symptoms. To reconsider: < male, 32 years old, en general good condition > Is he L handed? Is he athletic, a tennis player? < 6 month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis > That must be in October, when Winter set in, and also Cold. Does Heat help? Does Cold aggravate? Did he sleep on a side, was exposed to cold, rain, snow? This condition has an element of Cold in it, and also K and Water Yin. < I've treated with every thing that I've imagined (cups, needles, triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing works, just a little less painful, but the problem remain. > Either is local and due to Cold because it presented in October, in which case moxa would help. Or it is not a local but a remote problem on the LI channel. One more thought comes to mind. Is he asymmetric in spine? Scoliosis, even a slight one. Checking out the spine will help. Sit in good light, mark each vertebral spine with marker, stand back and see if there is a sway to one or other side. Also palpate Du and Huato points at T 3, 4, 5 [to rule out LU & HT, these go together]. Palpate Shu points at random, for HT, LU, SI. Once saw a similar case where nothing worked. Palpating Mu points found a tender HT and when needled at once gave relief. Dr. Holmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 This means you have found the reason for the pain and the treatment for it. Thank you for patiently following up. The man is suffering from shoulder - hip asymmetry, which shows up as a raised L shoulder coupled with a lowered R hip. This causes problems with channels which run on L shoulder esp SI and LI. If you can level the 2 shoulders I am betting the pain will disappear on its own without being treated. Holmes. Fernando Dougnac wrote: > More information: > The patient feel more pain at pressure L GB21 than R GB21. What mean? > He have the L shoulder little higher tan R. > > Thanks, > Fdo. > > > dkakobad [dkaikobad] > Lunes, 21 de Marzo de 2005 09:23 a.m. > Chinese Medicine > Re: Help with elbow epicondilitis... > > > > Fernando Dougnac wrote: > > > > > Is it R or L elbow? Left > > Was there an injury? No. > > Does he have one shoulder higher than another? No. > > A tight GB 21 on the side of pain? I have to test. > > Hip pain on contra lateral side? No. > > Median fissure on tongue? No. > > > > Dr. Holmes > > > > > Thank you. > The challenge is not to treat this by local points but by remote ones > which address the precondition > and not the presenting symptoms. > > To reconsider: > < male, 32 years old, en general good condition > > Is he L handed? Is he athletic, a tennis player? > > < 6 month ago this guy have a very rebel elbow external epicondilitis > > That must be in October, when Winter set in, and also Cold. Does Heat > help? Does Cold aggravate? Did he sleep on a side, was exposed to cold, > rain, snow? This condition has an element of Cold in it, and also K and > Water Yin. > > < I've treated with every thing that I've imagined (cups, needles, > triangle needle and cup, electro acupuncture) but nothing works, just a > little less painful, but the problem remain. > > > Either is local and due to Cold because it presented in October, in > which case moxa would help. > Or it is not a local but a remote problem on the LI channel. > > One more thought comes to mind. Is he asymmetric in spine? Scoliosis, > even a slight one. > Checking out the spine will help. Sit in good light, mark each vertebral > > spine with marker, stand > back and see if there is a sway to one or other side. > > Also palpate Du and Huato points at T 3, 4, 5 [to rule out LU & HT, > these go together]. > > Palpate Shu points at random, for HT, LU, SI. > > Once saw a similar case where nothing worked. Palpating Mu points found > a tender HT > and when needled at once gave relief. > > Dr. Holmes > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 A good treatment for Left tennis elbow will be treating the right knee, which mirrors the elbow. If the pain is on the Large Intestine channel on the insertion of the muscle to the bone, you may balance this by using the Liver channel (Yang Ming balances with JeuYin). Find a tender area on the knee, anterior to the traditional Liver 8 point, on the Tibia bone and superior to Spleen 9. Palpate the whole bone and find several Ashi points. Needle them horizontally with strong DE-Qi and re-check the tender point in the forearm. You can also balance hand YangMing with contra-lateral Foot YangMing. Check for tender points around Right side St 36 and perhaps a little above and closer to the bone, imaging that muscle, Tibialis Anterior as the Hand Extensors. You can balance this by needling Lung 5 area (feel for ashi) on the Right hand. This is the Balance Method work of Dr. Richard Tan in San Diego. I have treated successfully many clients with this protocol. Request them to work the elbow less for a few weeks until they feel better, otherwise they will continue tearing the tendons’ attachments. Give two-three treatments per week for 2-3 weeks. Please let us know of their progress. Ilan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 How do things stand? Holmes. Fernando Dougnac wrote: > More information: > The patient feel more pain at pressure L GB21 than R GB21. What mean? > He have the L shoulder little higher tan R. > > Thanks, > Fdo. > > > dkakobad [dkaikobad] > Lunes, 21 de Marzo de 2005 09:23 a.m. > Chinese Medicine > Re: Help with elbow epicondilitis... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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