Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hi Phil, I believe in your dream Phil of one medicine. I know it will come, but not in our life-times. Kind regards Attilio D'Alberto Doctor of (Beijing, China) BSc (Hons) TCM MATCM 07786198900 attiliodalberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com I had the dream of ONE MEDICINE - ONE SCIENCE, but I am coming to believe that my dream is a hopeless illusion. Increasingly, western science & medicine is driven (funded, and therefore, ultimately controlled) by capitalism (industry, commerce) and the lust to exploit knowledge for monetary profit. The western machine will not share power / resources other systems that are perceived to compete for markets / resources. I also agree that the future of Chinese medicine is grim. As you said, it stands to be " Westernized " (even from WITHIN China),and thus greatly reduced. Should we be surprised? NO! The Law of Change is the ultimate law of Chinese (and many other) philosophies. Humanity has never seen such pace of social and scientific change as we have seen in the past 10-20 years. And the pace of change is accelerating. There is no going back now, but maybe we can influence some aspects of the future. Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 " One medicine " is in essence a totalitarian idea, like " one world government " . It ignores the diversity of human cultures, and attempts to assimilate everything into a grey mass. And you'd have to be an M.D. or underling to practice it. On Mar 13, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi Phil, > > I believe in your dream Phil of one medicine. I know it will come, but > not > in our life-times. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hi Zev, I tend to agree with you that one medicine is in essence a totalitarian idea. However, what I have wondered in this discussion is what is it that the people who we serve, wanting? If the people see the cause of illness as demon sprits, then they will want a medicine that recognises that. If the people see the cause of illness as germ based on bacteria and viruses, and that vaccines are effective they will want a medicine that recognises that. Even if it doesn't work and they acknowledge that it is damaging to their child / pet /self many will go back for the next shot and doctors will deny / dismiss / be blinded by the damage caused, I assume because of the acceptance of the belief of the culture. Take WM as the example, it personifies the mentality of 'attack the intruder', attack before it even gets to our border. We can see this in the sale of anti-bacterial kitchen clothes. We also see this in lst world foreign policy. So, the point is to see that a people's culture / philosophy is reflected in its medicine. So since one doesn't even need results to keep a type of medicine going, the medicine just has to fit the people's beliefs. Take a recent documentary of people dying from cancer, undertaking more chemo, against the doctors advise, because they want to do something, and they want to do the something that is standard in their philosophy. That is attack the cancer. Take the person doing painful physio three times a week for six weeks and are deteriorating. Or the person taking the painkiller and not only is not working, it causes them gut pain, but they still take the medicine. Medicine reflects the people who use it. [zrosenbe] Monday, 14 March 2005 5:53 AM Chinese Medicine Re: One medicine " One medicine " is in essence a totalitarian idea, like " one world government " . It ignores the diversity of human cultures, and attempts to assimilate everything into a grey mass. And you'd have to be an M.D. or underling to practice it. On Mar 13, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi Phil, > > I believe in your dream Phil of one medicine. I know it will come, but > not > in our life-times. > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 This is profound, Sharon. Yes, the mentality of people and their beliefs are the essence of what they look for in medicine. I think there is a growing awareness of the limitations of modern medicine, and an appreciation of the common sense approach underlying Chinese medicine. It is this aspect that must not be lost. Just in the last few years, I see trends in TCM school clinics and classrooms. In one clinic, white coats are now required, and interns encouraged to wear stethoscopes. The underlying mentality of WM is seeping in with the clothes. While I have no problem with referring to biomedicine and using its data sets for our own medicine, the core theory must be strengthened and taught. On Mar 13, 2005, at 2:00 PM, Sharon wrote: > Take WM as the example, it personifies the mentality of 'attack the > intruder', attack before it even gets to our border. We can see this > in the > sale of anti-bacterial kitchen clothes. We also see this in lst world > foreign policy. So, the point is to see that a people's culture / > philosophy is reflected in its medicine. Medicine reflects the people who use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Beautifully said Sharon. People often come to me because I don't do what the MD's do. I'm different, more " touchy-feely " , more spiritually open, more gentle and caring, more " organic " and " holistic " . Some patients are sick to death of Western medicine as it has failed them completely and even made their conditions far worse. They have lost faith in that monopoly and won't go back - even when their life depends on it. We as CM practitioners may never dominate the medical arena, but we have our niche and I don't think that is going away as long as we can offer results and an alternative to allopathic machine. I cringe at the idea of a wholly integrated " one medicine " . No thanks, not for me. I don't claim to be able to cure everything or treat everything. I absolutely honor and respect MD's and the work they do. I do not feel like I am in competition with them at all as what I offer is very different and I recognize that it may not be for everyone. I'm OK with that and I will spend my days deepening my understanding of CM and treating people from the many fascinating perspectives of CM rather than getting sucked into the Western allopathic machine. Sometimes I may not get results where an MD might. Other times I may get fantastic results where the MD's have given up hope. There are plenty of sick and hurting people in the world for all the different approaches that have stood the test of time I think. We don't need One medicine, we need a spirit of cooperation and common purpose or intent with all the healing professionals. Ultimately I want the same thing for my patients as the MD's want. That is to alleviate suffering and promote health and healing as much as possible. Why do we have to have the same tools to do that? Why is it at all important to standardize the tools if it means throwing out some of the best of each? Like you said Sharon, there will always be room at the table for those who offer viable alternatives, as long as those alternatives resonate with the people seeking help. Thanks! Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. Oasis Acupuncture http://www.oasisacupuncture.com 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte Suite D-35 Scottsdale, AZ 85258 Phone: (480) 991-3650 Fax: (480) 247-4472 Sharon [] Sunday, March 13, 2005 3:00 PM Chinese Medicine RE: One medicine Hi Zev, I tend to agree with you that one medicine is in essence a totalitarian idea. However, what I have wondered in this discussion is what is it that the people who we serve, wanting? If the people see the cause of illness as demon sprits, then they will want a medicine that recognises that. If the people see the cause of illness as germ based on bacteria and viruses, and that vaccines are effective they will want a medicine that recognises that. Even if it doesn't work and they acknowledge that it is damaging to their child / pet /self many will go back for the next shot and doctors will deny / dismiss / be blinded by the damage caused, I assume because of the acceptance of the belief of the culture. Take WM as the example, it personifies the mentality of 'attack the intruder', attack before it even gets to our border. We can see this in the sale of anti-bacterial kitchen clothes. We also see this in lst world foreign policy. So, the point is to see that a people's culture / philosophy is reflected in its medicine. So since one doesn't even need results to keep a type of medicine going, the medicine just has to fit the people's beliefs. Take a recent documentary of people dying from cancer, undertaking more chemo, against the doctors advise, because they want to do something, and they want to do the something that is standard in their philosophy. That is attack the cancer. Take the person doing painful physio three times a week for six weeks and are deteriorating. Or the person taking the painkiller and not only is not working, it causes them gut pain, but they still take the medicine. Medicine reflects the people who use it. [zrosenbe] Monday, 14 March 2005 5:53 AM Chinese Medicine Re: One medicine " One medicine " is in essence a totalitarian idea, like " one world government " . It ignores the diversity of human cultures, and attempts to assimilate everything into a grey mass. And you'd have to be an M.D. or underling to practice it. On Mar 13, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > Hi Phil, > > I believe in your dream Phil of one medicine. I know it will come, but > not > in our life-times. > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Christopher, I think the reason why 'we have to have the same tools' and that 'my tools' are better than..... is actually because we lack authentic power and we lack self esteem. So if I tear another down I may operate under the assumption that I build myself up. Which of course is stuff and nonsense. The same can be said, I suspect, if we have a need to prove 'our medicine'. We vive for the minds of the people and perhaps justify our own choices because we care what others think more than we care what we think, we just want to 'prove' this statistically. We perhaps confuse power with force. IMO a practitioner matures into his or her power when he or she accepts those that seek help and allows those who do not seek it, alone without the need to conquer or destroy them. And as you say, there are more than enough unwell people in this world to help, and they also want different kinds of help. There are those who believe that they have to accept their karma and then there are those who believe they are the masters of their own destiny. Both must seek then I think, different things in their medicine. Best wishes Why do we have to have the same tools to do that? Why is it at all important to standardize the tools if it means throwing out some of the best of each? Like you said Sharon, there will always be room at the table for those who offer viable alternatives, as long as those alternatives resonate with the people seeking help. Thanks! Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht. -- Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release 11/03/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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