Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hi can anyone tell me about using moxibustion to turn a breach baby who is now 32 weeks? To my horror a patient of mine came in and asked for a moxa stick. When asked why she replied that her physiotherapist wanted it to turn her baby!!! I pointed out the dangers of this to her and of course refused to sell her anything. Why do physos think they can do this? I would be most grateful if anyone in the group could let me know about the use of moxa in this situation thanks Pamela >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Digest Number 879 >24 Feb 2005 22:29:30 -0000 > > > >There are 7 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. request for formula ingredients > Elise Sachs <docelise > 2. Re: OPCA-MSA patient > jude <jsaxe > 3. Re: request for formula ingredients > " " < > 4. Re: OPCA-MSA patient > " kampo36 " <kampo36 > 5. Re: Shen Disturbance > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy > 6. RE: RSD - points > " Benjamin Hawes " <ben_laura > 7. Re: RE: RSD - points > Steve Smith <radicalneuro > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:11:57 -0800 (PST) > Elise Sachs <docelise >request for formula ingredients > > >Hi- > >Is anyone familiar with the formula Zheng Tian Wan (rectify heaven). Can't >seem to locate in any of my formula or patent books. The herbs and dose % >would be great if anyone knows this formula. > >Thanks > >Elise Sachs > >docelise > >(303) 931-8272 > > > > > > Mail - You care about security. So do we. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hi Pam, here's an abstract of a study on the subject: Acupuncture Conversion of Fetal Breech Presentation Dubravko Habeka, Jasna erkez Habekb, Mirjana Jaguštc Clinical Departments of aObstetrics and Gynecology and bInternal Medicine, Clinical Hospital Osijek, Osijek, and cDepartment of Obstetrics and Gynecology, General Hospital Gospi, Gospi, Croatia Address of Corresponding Author Fetal Diagnosis and Therapy 2003;18:418-421 (DOI: 10.1159/000073135) Key Words Fetal breech presentation Acupuncture Perinatal outcome Abstract Aim: The aim of this study was to assess the value of acupuncture (AP) in the conversion of fetal breech presentation into vertex presentation. Patients and Methods: A randomized prospective controlled clinical study included 67 pregnant women with fetal breech presentation: 34 women with singleton pregnancies treated with manual AP (urinary bladder 67, Zhiyin) and a control group which included 33 women with singleton pregnancies without AP treatment. The AP treatment lasted 30 min a day, and was conducted during and after 34 weeks of pregnancy with simultaneous cardiotocography. Results: The success rate of the AP correction of fetal breech presentation is 76.4% (26 women), and spontaneous conversion without AP in vertex presentation is observed in 15 women (45.4%; p < 0.001). Conclusions: We believe that AP correction of fetal malpresentation is a relatively simple, efficacious and inexpensive method associated with a lower percentage of operatively completed deliveries, which definitely reflects in improved parameters of vital and perinatal statistics. 2003 S. Karger AG, Basel taken from: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=73135 & ProduktNr=224239 & Ausgabe=229537 I believe there are some people that use this technique by themselves at home. Some midwifes are also familiar with the technique. This is from a newsletter for midwifes: Question of the Week Responses Q: Does anyone know how often to do moxibustion to turn a breech baby? I have read 10 minutes two times per day. My patient's acupuncturist said 10 times per day! [Please also share other ways you know of to turn a breech.] - Anon. A: This is an excerpt from " Obstetrics and Gynecology in " by Giovanni Maciocia: " The technique involves heating UB 67 Zhiyin [located at the lateral side of the base of the toenail on the little toe] on both feet for 15 minutes, once a day for 10 days in all; initially for 5 days only, then waiting a few days and monitoring the position of the fetus, and then, if its position has not been corrected, repeating the treatment another five days. It is important to pause and to monitor the position of the fetus rather than applying the treatment continuously, because the fetus may turn into the correct position and then, if the treatment is continued, may turn into the wrong position. " Treatment can be started as early as 28 weeks. The study reported in JAMA a few years ago started at 32 weeks. Maciocia points out that most research studies find week 34 to be optimum. In my experience this works well, but will not help if the cord is short or shortened because it is wrapped around the baby's neck. One woman's baby would correct position but then flip back to breech. If you do not have access to moxibustion, try incense, especially the Japanese kind that breaks easily. There are many techniques for applying moxa. Most of all, you don't want to burn the patient. Move forward and back from the point in a quick motion so that the heat does not get too intense. Be sure to keep a finger on your patient's skin near the point so you can monitor the heat as well. If you use incense, you may have to quickly brush the point with the stick to get her to feel it initially as the incense does not burn as hot as moxa. - Colleen Morris taken from http://www.midwiferytoday.com/enews/enews0312.asp Regards, Tom. ---- Pam D'Alberto 02/25/05 12:59:15 Chinese Medicine RE: Digest Number 879 Hi can anyone tell me about using moxibustion to turn a breach baby who is now 32 weeks? To my horror a patient of mine came in and asked for a moxa stick. When asked why she replied that her physiotherapist wanted it to turn her baby!!! I pointed out the dangers of this to her and of course refused to sell her anything. Why do physos think they can do this? I would be most grateful if anyone in the group could let me know about the use of moxa in this situation thanks Pamela >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Digest Number 879 >24 Feb 2005 22:29:30 -0000 > > > >There are 7 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. request for formula ingredients > Elise Sachs <docelise > 2. Re: OPCA-MSA patient > jude <jsaxe > 3. Re: request for formula ingredients > " " < > 4. Re: OPCA-MSA patient > " kampo36 " <kampo36 > 5. Re: Shen Disturbance > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy > 6. RE: RSD - points > " Benjamin Hawes " <ben_laura > 7. Re: RE: RSD - points > Steve Smith <radicalneuro > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:11:57 -0800 (PST) > Elise Sachs <docelise >request for formula ingredients > > >Hi- > >Is anyone familiar with the formula Zheng Tian Wan (rectify heaven). Can't >seem to locate in any of my formula or patent books. The herbs and dose % >would be great if anyone knows this formula. > >Thanks > >Elise Sachs > >docelise > >(303) 931-8272 > > > > > > Mail - You care about security. So do we. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hi Pam In this presentation ( http://tinyurl.com/4f9u9 ) you will find on page 41 to page 45 a treatment protocol for breech babies using moxa. Alwin Chinese Medicine , " Pam D'Alberto " <pdalberto@h...> wrote: > Hi can anyone tell me about using moxibustion to turn a breach baby who is > now 32 weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Report the incident to your state board of physical therapy or its equivalent and the physician in charge of her care usually an MD. Clearly, this is outside the scope of practice for this practitioner and their board needs to hear about it. As for using moxa to turn a baby in utero, it can work if the baby has not dropped down into canal. I have used this point with acupuncture to turn my own daughter who was face donw prior to her birth in the hospital. You did the right thing by not selling her the moxa. People today are out of control. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Pam D'Alberto " <pdalberto >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >RE: Digest Number 879 >Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:57:31 +0000 > >Hi can anyone tell me about using moxibustion to turn a breach baby who is >now 32 weeks? To my horror a patient of mine came in and asked for a moxa >stick. When asked why she replied that her physiotherapist wanted it to >turn >her baby!!! I pointed out the dangers of this to her and of course refused >to sell her anything. Why do physos think they can do this? I would be most >grateful if anyone in the group could let me know about the use of moxa in >this situation thanks Pamela > > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > >Chinese Medicine > > Digest Number 879 > >24 Feb 2005 22:29:30 -0000 > > > > > > > >There are 7 messages in this issue. > > > >Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. request for formula ingredients > > Elise Sachs <docelise > > 2. Re: OPCA-MSA patient > > jude <jsaxe > > 3. Re: request for formula ingredients > > " " < > > 4. Re: OPCA-MSA patient > > " kampo36 " <kampo36 > > 5. Re: Shen Disturbance > > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy > > 6. RE: RSD - points > > " Benjamin Hawes " <ben_laura > > 7. Re: RE: RSD - points > > Steve Smith <radicalneuro > > > > > >______________________ > >______________________ > > > >Message: 1 > > Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:11:57 -0800 (PST) > > Elise Sachs <docelise > >request for formula ingredients > > > > > >Hi- > > > >Is anyone familiar with the formula Zheng Tian Wan (rectify heaven). >Can't > >seem to locate in any of my formula or patent books. The herbs and dose % > >would be great if anyone knows this formula. > > > >Thanks > > > >Elise Sachs > > > >docelise > > > >(303) 931-8272 > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - You care about security. So do we. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Hi Pam I think there were some postings to this group a few months ago that gave individuals' specific findings regarding good protocols for administering BL-67 in cases of breech presentation - but sorry don't have the time to track down now for you. David Chinese Medicine , " Pam D'Alberto " <pdalberto@h...> wrote: > Hi can anyone tell me about using moxibustion to turn a breach baby who is > now 32 weeks? To my horror a patient of mine came in and asked for a moxa > stick. When asked why she replied that her physiotherapist wanted it to turn > her baby!!! I pointed out the dangers of this to her and of course refused > to sell her anything. Why do physos think they can do this? I would be most > grateful if anyone in the group could let me know about the use of moxa in > this situation thanks Pamela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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