Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Hi Sharon and all There is some research (which I can look up the reference for if anyone wants it) which links statin use to an INCREASE in insulin resistance. Rather ironic when statins are so routinely given to diabetics. In the UK statins are being prescribed to diabetics even if their cholesterol is low on the basis that it still gives them protection from heart attacks. On another note, there is some evidence that a higher cholesterol level in the over 70s is linked to a longer life. And finally its worth pointing out that there are 2 types of diabetes and although type 2 (insulin resistance) diabetes represents more than 90 % of the diabetic population, the type 1 diabetics have a very different disease profile, so to make statements about " diabetes " without stating which type would be misleading. regards Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Hi Susie, I would be interested in your reference to increase in insulin resistance from statins. Px's reducing their carb intake all come back saying how much better they feel. Arthritic pain eases or disappears, weight reduces, energy goes up - no more after lunch sleepiness, skin is better, night time sleep is better, bloating and flatulence disappear (grains are no longer fermenting in their gut) etc etc. Since it is too difficult for most to follow low starch carb diet for long term, I tend to suggest to them to have a famine feast approach. They can enjoy some starchy carbs for a few days and then go back to a more simple diet. This at least easier the burden and gives the cells a chance to reduce their insulin resistance. They do notice a return of some symptoms upon eating the grains again especially wheat / bread. I encourage them to see it as a positive feed back to keep the grains low in the diet. And suggest there is probably an amount they maybe able to tolerate as their health returns. I also recommend if they want to use grains then make them well cooked grains such as barley or rice in soups or stews in small amounts and explain that it has to broken down by the outside cooking pot so their GIT can cope with it. I haven't seen papers on this approach, I am just going off their own assessment of their health status as well as their ability to comply with such an approach to a low starch sugar carb diet. I also do not recommend substitution with soy flour or artificial sweeteners. Best wishes, Susie Parkinson [susie] Friday, 11 February 2005 12:54 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Statins and insulin resistance Hi Sharon and all There is some research (which I can look up the reference for if anyone wants it) which links statin use to an INCREASE in insulin resistance. Rather ironic when statins are so routinely given to diabetics. In the UK statins are being prescribed to diabetics even if their cholesterol is low on the basis that it still gives them protection from heart attacks. On another note, there is some evidence that a higher cholesterol level in the over 70s is linked to a longer life. And finally its worth pointing out that there are 2 types of diabetes and although type 2 (insulin resistance) diabetes represents more than 90 % of the diabetic population, the type 1 diabetics have a very different disease profile, so to make statements about " diabetes " without stating which type would be misleading. regards Susie http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I would also have to say that clinically I have seen a low glycaemic index diet work best for diabetics and prediabetics that means restricting many fruit and vegetables that are normally thought to be healthy. This however means that the blood looks better and patients feel better. I have no idea if we are fixing one problem and creating another such as cancer for example. We are still functioning with much theory, belief systems and not enough evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi Sharon The reference is Effects of Diet and Simvastatin on Serum Lipids, Insulin, and Antioxidants in Hypercholesterolemic Men. A Randomized Controlled Trial Antti Jula, MD,PhD; Jukka Marniemi, PhD; Risto Huupponen, MD,PhD; Arja Virtanen, MSc; Merja Rastas, MSc; Tapani Rönnemaa, MD,PhD JAMA. 2002;287:598-605. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/5/598 Also, Emmanuel is quite correct in saying that insulin is required whatever food is eaten as it all breaks down to glucose + other nutrients. The cells need glucose to operate. I'm sure you realise this and have just misunderstood each other! I believe that a low glycaemic index diet is the best way of controlling both types of diabetes and enabling remission of type 2 diabetics. I suggest a book called " Eat yourself slim " by Michel Montignac - marvellous book that I'm sure you would enjoy. Its is great for diabetics as well as those who are overweight (not all diabetics are overweight!) Also I think I can answer your question about why people with insulin resistance keep eating carbohydrates. Its because their cells are not getting enough glucose, so the body keeps telling them to go out and get more sugar. People with high sugar levels feel very tired all the time and think they need a large sugary drink to give them energy! I think that people haver seen athletes having glucose drinks and think that a glucose hit must be good for you. Best wishes Susie > > Message: 2 > Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:29:04 +1000 > <> > RE: RE: Statins and insulin resistance > > Hi Susie, > I would be interested in your reference to increase in insulin resistance > from statins. > > Px's reducing their carb intake all come back saying how much better they > feel. > Arthritic pain eases or disappears, weight reduces, energy goes > up - no more > after lunch sleepiness, skin is better, night time sleep is > better, bloating > and flatulence disappear (grains are no longer fermenting in > their gut) etc > etc. > > Since it is too difficult for most to follow low starch carb diet for long > term, I tend to suggest to them to have a famine feast approach. They can > enjoy some starchy carbs for a few days and then go back to a more simple > diet. This at least easier the burden and gives the cells a chance to > reduce their insulin resistance. > > They do notice a return of some symptoms upon eating the grains again > especially wheat / bread. I encourage them to see it as a positive feed > back to keep the grains low in the diet. And suggest there is probably an > amount they maybe able to tolerate as their health returns. I also > recommend if they want to use grains then make them well cooked > grains such > as barley or rice in soups or stews in small amounts and explain > that it has > to broken down by the outside cooking pot so their GIT can cope with it. > > I haven't seen papers on this approach, I am just going off their own > assessment of their health status as well as their ability to comply with > such an approach to a low starch sugar carb diet. I also do not recommend > substitution with soy flour or artificial sweeteners. > Best wishes, > > > > > Susie Parkinson [susie] > Friday, 11 February 2005 12:54 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Statins and insulin resistance > > > Hi Sharon and all > > There is some research (which I can look up the reference for if anyone > wants it) which links statin use to an INCREASE in insulin resistance. > Rather ironic when statins are so routinely given to diabetics. > In the UK > statins are being prescribed to diabetics even if their > cholesterol is low > on the basis that it still gives them protection from heart attacks. > On another note, there is some evidence that a higher > cholesterol level in > the over 70s is linked to a longer life. > And finally its worth pointing out that there are 2 types of > diabetes and > although type 2 (insulin resistance) diabetes represents more > than 90 % of > the diabetic population, the type 1 diabetics have a very different > disease > profile, so to make statements about " diabetes " without stating > which type > would be misleading. > regards > Susie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Hi Susie, Thank you for the reference. Gosh, I do know that insulin is required by the body, however, excess, deficient or resistance in insulin is dangerous to the body. In the process of Lipolysis, that is the breaking down of lipids, glycerol from the triglyceride goes down the pathway of Glycolysis, the fatty acids get broken down into Acetyl Co enzyme A and enter the Krebs cycle. This breaking down of the fatty acids does not require insulin as far as I can tell from looking at the biochemical pathway. I am certainly prepared to be corrected. Insulin is required to turn glucose into fatty acids, to be stored as adipose tissue. The question I do ask is, Do we have to break down dietary fat into an intermediary or do we simply park it directly into adipose tissue? I understood we had to break it down and couldn't just park it directly. Now the point I raised with Alon was in regards to statins controlling cholesterol and I was not convinced that the benefits he saw in statins outweighed the dangers in statins. I was not aware at the time that he may be in more unique circumstances than many of us, and this may be his best option for his health - I am not in a position to pass any comment on that. However in general, I thought we could make use of the much maligned fatty acids which apparently will lower the cholesterol levels according to a number of studies. All of this maybe so for some people whilst others may lack the necessary chemical interactions. It is just that fat gets such bad press and I am not convinced that is appropriate. For some of us we can't break down lactose, others can't break down lentils, others ferment grains, others can't handle a specific aspect of gluten, others can't handle animal proteins, others can't handle fats. There is so much more I think to be understood and as Alon has said, maybe one solution creates another problem elsewhere. Best wishes, Susie Parkinson [susie] Saturday, 12 February 2005 9:42 AM Chinese Medicine RE: Statins and insulin resistance Hi Sharon The reference is Effects of Diet and Simvastatin on Serum Lipids, Insulin, and Antioxidants in Hypercholesterolemic Men. A Randomized Controlled Trial Antti Jula, MD,PhD; Jukka Marniemi, PhD; Risto Huupponen, MD,PhD; Arja Virtanen, MSc; Merja Rastas, MSc; Tapani Rönnemaa, MD,PhD JAMA. 2002;287:598-605. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/5/598 Also, Emmanuel is quite correct in saying that insulin is required whatever food is eaten as it all breaks down to glucose + other nutrients. The cells need glucose to operate. I'm sure you realise this and have just misunderstood each other! I believe that a low glycaemic index diet is the best way of controlling both types of diabetes and enabling remission of type 2 diabetics. I suggest a book called " Eat yourself slim " by Michel Montignac - marvellous book that I'm sure you would enjoy. Its is great for diabetics as well as those who are overweight (not all diabetics are overweight!) Also I think I can answer your question about why people with insulin resistance keep eating carbohydrates. Its because their cells are not getting enough glucose, so the body keeps telling them to go out and get more sugar. People with high sugar levels feel very tired all the time and think they need a large sugary drink to give them energy! I think that people haver seen athletes having glucose drinks and think that a glucose hit must be good for you. Best wishes Susie > > Message: 2 > Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:29:04 +1000 > <> > RE: RE: Statins and insulin resistance > > Hi Susie, > I would be interested in your reference to increase in insulin resistance > from statins. > > Px's reducing their carb intake all come back saying how much better they > feel. > Arthritic pain eases or disappears, weight reduces, energy goes > up - no more > after lunch sleepiness, skin is better, night time sleep is > better, bloating > and flatulence disappear (grains are no longer fermenting in > their gut) etc > etc. > > Since it is too difficult for most to follow low starch carb diet for long > term, I tend to suggest to them to have a famine feast approach. They can > enjoy some starchy carbs for a few days and then go back to a more simple > diet. This at least easier the burden and gives the cells a chance to > reduce their insulin resistance. > > They do notice a return of some symptoms upon eating the grains again > especially wheat / bread. I encourage them to see it as a positive feed > back to keep the grains low in the diet. And suggest there is probably an > amount they maybe able to tolerate as their health returns. I also > recommend if they want to use grains then make them well cooked > grains such > as barley or rice in soups or stews in small amounts and explain > that it has > to broken down by the outside cooking pot so their GIT can cope with it. > > I haven't seen papers on this approach, I am just going off their own > assessment of their health status as well as their ability to comply with > such an approach to a low starch sugar carb diet. I also do not recommend > substitution with soy flour or artificial sweeteners. > Best wishes, > > > > > Susie Parkinson [susie] > Friday, 11 February 2005 12:54 AM > Chinese Medicine > RE: Statins and insulin resistance > > > Hi Sharon and all > > There is some research (which I can look up the reference for if anyone > wants it) which links statin use to an INCREASE in insulin resistance. > Rather ironic when statins are so routinely given to diabetics. > In the UK > statins are being prescribed to diabetics even if their > cholesterol is low > on the basis that it still gives them protection from heart attacks. > On another note, there is some evidence that a higher > cholesterol level in > the over 70s is linked to a longer life. > And finally its worth pointing out that there are 2 types of > diabetes and > although type 2 (insulin resistance) diabetes represents more > than 90 % of > the diabetic population, the type 1 diabetics have a very different > disease > profile, so to make statements about " diabetes " without stating > which type > would be misleading. > regards > Susie > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. 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