Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 A simple question... If a prescription of loose herbs for the day totals 100g and is decocted and drunk twice, then how much concentrated powder (5:1) should be administered to give an equivalent dose - is it 20g once or twice a day? Angelo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Chinese Medicine , " Angelo DAlberto " <angelo_dalberto> wrote: > > A simple question... > > If a prescription of loose herbs for the day totals 100g and is > decocted and drunk twice, then how much concentrated powder (5:1) > should be administered to give an equivalent dose - is it 20g once or > twice a day? > > Angelo 20g once per day or 10g twice. In other words if 100g crude herbs is decocted and halved, then the dosage for the crude herbs would be 50g in decoction twice per day... so divide that figure by 5 to get the equivalent dosage for the granules (KPC, Sun Ten et al). robert hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 I'd be interested in it if there is a written guidline that does the translation but so far I am not able to find it. However, I do take the caution to think about how much the decotion process extracts the medicinal. For example, if one uses 30g of Long Gu (Dragon Bone) in the formula for twice a day in decotion, which is not uncommon, I would use much much less than 3g (30/2/5) for each application. Why? Think about how much of Long Gu is remaining after the decotion and how much of it was actually desolved into the decotion. I won't be surprised if the patient develops kidney stone after some time. Take similar extra caution for all of the mineral medicinals, Ci Shi (magnetic stone) being another example. Mike L. kampo36 <kampo36 wrote: Chinese Medicine , " Angelo DAlberto " <angelo_dalberto> wrote: > > A simple question... > > If a prescription of loose herbs for the day totals 100g and is > decocted and drunk twice, then how much concentrated powder (5:1) > should be administered to give an equivalent dose - is it 20g once or > twice a day? > > Angelo 20g once per day or 10g twice. In other words if 100g crude herbs is decocted and halved, then the dosage for the crude herbs would be 50g in decoction twice per day... so divide that figure by 5 to get the equivalent dosage for the granules (KPC, Sun Ten et al). robert hayden http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Yes, I agree especially about the minerals. I think the formula extracts in which Long Gu or Mu Li, etc, is an ingredient are less problematic than assembling a formula from single herb extracts. I think we've had discussions on this before -- the water extraction of minerals is usually pretty inefficient so especially in the case of minerals I think you're probably ingesting the mineral more or less whole. Generally I would start with a formula and either augment it with single herb extracts or combine it with another entire formula. I would generally do this by percentage of the total dosage -- ie add 5% Long Gu or whatever, which would keep the dosage fairly low. I found a little Long Gu and/or Mu Li goes a long way with the extract method. I do think that the extracts are a different enough modality from decoctions that one should be cautious in their administration at least until one has enough experience to be able to judge what an adequate dosage of a given formula or substance should be. Attilio was asking a simple question and I endeavored to give him a simple answer. But the reality is not always so simple. For formulas the 5:1 ratio is probably more or less accurate but if using the individual herbs extracts the figure can vary widely, from what I understand. The best textual resource I've found regarding using extract preparations is Andrew Ellis' book Notes from South Mountain, which began as the KPC product manual but is a very good formula reference even if one doesn't use KPC extracts. robert hayden Chinese Medicine , Mike Liaw <mikeliaw> wrote: > I'd be interested in it if there is a written guidline that does the translation but so far I am not able to find it. > > However, I do take the caution to think about how much the decotion process extracts the medicinal. For example, if one uses 30g of Long Gu (Dragon Bone) in the formula for twice a day in decotion, which is not uncommon, I would use much much less than 3g (30/ 2/5) for each application. Why? Think about how much of Long Gu is remaining after the decotion and how much of it was actually desolved into the decotion. I won't be surprised if the patient develops kidney stone after some time. Take similar extra caution for all of the mineral medicinals, Ci Shi (magnetic stone) being another example. > > Mike L. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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