Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Phil The subject matter should be more inclusive regarding the future of ALL of CM whether herbs or any of the modalities under oriental medicine. As always there is the legal arena but only when handled by those who know how to accomplish key tasks (usually NOT the majority of lawyers). The other important component is the practitioners and suppliers who MUST come together to finance such a legal stance. Here in the USA.....CODEX can be stopped dead in it's tracks. Don't know what if anything can be done about it in EU or elsewhere. Additionally....the potential banning of potent singles of the Chinese Pharmacopoeia (including bungarus, centipede, cicada, lumbricus, moschus, scorpio, toad venom, etc) can be STOPPED and prohibitions such as ephedra CAN be reversed.............but again the only way is for practitioners and suppliers to join together backing a solid intelligent strategy. So far the suppliers and organizations have been spread thin all over the playing board...... scrambling for crumbs..... using strategies which will and have failed to stop what is coming. There is a saying a good friend and fellow 'pro se litigant' says all of the time and for those who are sensitive...please forgive the language.....'You can only screw yourself in life.' It appears that the CM/AP profession is doing a darn good job of it with or without knowing it. We have heard from certain people who thought they knew legally what they were talking about discussing Civil Rights. After my post several weeks ago......there has been no response. The point correctly posed and posted.....is that in the USA there is a HUGE difference between the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Civil Rights Act of 1866. In the end it is a SIMPLE choice which is up to the CM/AP community of pracitioners and suppliers to DECIDE for themselves if this is a hopeless cause and settle for the crumbs or we are going to FIGHT the battle intelligently. For if we are going to lose by battling....... we will lose no more than what we seemingly are going to lose anyway. Richard In a message dated 1/8/2005 1:13:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: Hi All, & IMO, Todd is more or less correct in his assessment of the future of herbal medicine, at least in the western world. The FDA, EU and other western drug regulation authorities increasingly insist on well documented evidence of safety, efficacy and quality control for medicinal agents. Legislation will allow, and practitioners' insurance companies cover, only registered (authorised) drugs and medicinals. It will become more and more difficult to source single ingredients that meet the approval of the regulators. Many of the potent singles of the Chinese Pharmacopoeia (including bungarus, centipede, cicada, lumbricus, moschus, scorpio, toad venom, etc) will be banned in the West, Western TCM herbalists will be left with a very depleted and sanitised stock of authorised formulas or extracts. The " right " to construct personalised formulas, or even to modify registered formulas by addition or subtraction of single herbs probably will be banned soon. This will cause traditional Chinese herbalism, as practised in the West, to run aground in a stagnant backwater, from which there will be no easy channel back to mainstream medicine. In contrast, oriental herbalism is developing towards a biomedical model, involving research to identify, isolate and synthesise the more potent active ingredients from traditional herbs and formulas. See for example the research at the Natural Products Research Institute in Seoul, S. Korea: http://plaza.snu.ac.kr/~napri/eng/faculties.htm Patents on specific molecules, or combinations of molecules (and their sale and distribution via the pharmaceutical companies) are the likely outcomes from this research. These new compounds will be used, alone or with WM drugs, in biomedical models, using WM diagnostic methods. TCM Dx, IMO, will decline. We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for expert TCM Dx by Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little solid research to confirm that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be it by herbs or by acupuncture. These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's mails in recent weeks have been pointing inexorably in this direction. So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what SHOULD we salvage, before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the West? Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / herbal concepts that should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by well controlled research data, that these concepts are valid? How do we popularise them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking pattern of western medicine? Happy New Year to all. Best regards, Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353- WWW: " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 In all actuality, the future of Chinese herbalism has yet to be determined. We may need to lobby to have a medical herbal category added to FDA for properly trained practitioners or FDA to stop its campaign against alternative supplements. The public needs to become more involved with helping us with this endeavor we cannot do this without them. People have and will continue to use plants for health as they are inexpensive and tend to be effective with fewer side-effects. WM has for years used the plant kingdom in order to get ideas for drugs. What is interesting is that now they are trying to legislate these substances away from the public. What about broccoli? I went on your linked site and looked under the heading for natural products and found that there is a rather large error in statement of fact. They are presuming that ephedrine is only found in ephedra. If that is so, than why the issue over ban xia and others? In the end, we will need to band together as a group with a large public support. I think we can do it. Education of our patients to this end is mandatory. Our associations need to create a network with others who would work with us on this. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " " < > > , >traditional_Chinese_Medicine >CC: vbma > The future of Chinese Herbal Medicine in the West? >Sat, 08 Jan 2005 18:11:47 -0000 > >Hi All, & > >IMO, Todd is more or less correct in his assessment of the future of >herbal medicine, at least in the western world. > >The FDA, EU and other western drug regulation authorities increasingly >insist on well documented evidence of safety, efficacy and quality >control for medicinal agents. > >Legislation will allow, and practitioners' insurance companies cover, only >registered (authorised) drugs and medicinals. It will become more and >more difficult to source single ingredients that meet the approval of the >regulators. Many of the potent singles of the Chinese Pharmacopoeia >(including bungarus, centipede, cicada, lumbricus, moschus, scorpio, >toad venom, etc) will be banned in the West, > >Western TCM herbalists will be left with a very depleted and sanitised >stock of authorised formulas or extracts. The " right " to construct >personalised formulas, or even to modify registered formulas by addition >or subtraction of single herbs probably will be banned soon. > >This will cause traditional Chinese herbalism, as practised in the West, >to run aground in a stagnant backwater, from which there will be no >easy channel back to mainstream medicine. > >In contrast, oriental herbalism is developing towards a biomedical >model, involving research to identify, isolate and synthesise the more >potent active ingredients from traditional herbs and formulas. > >See for example the research at the Natural Products Research Institute >in Seoul, S. Korea: http://plaza.snu.ac.kr/~napri/eng/faculties.htm > >Patents on specific molecules, or combinations of molecules (and their >sale and distribution via the pharmaceutical companies) are the likely >outcomes from this research. These new compounds will be used, >alone or with WM drugs, in biomedical models, using WM diagnostic >methods. TCM Dx, IMO, will decline. > >We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for expert TCM Dx by >Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little solid research to confirm >that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be it by herbs or by >acupuncture. > >These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's mails in recent weeks >have been pointing inexorably in this direction. > >So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what SHOULD we salvage, >before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the West? > >Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / herbal concepts that >should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by well controlled >research data, that these concepts are valid? How do we popularise >them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking pattern of western >medicine? > >Happy New Year to all. > > >Best regards, > > >Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353- >WWW: > " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - >Chinese Proverb > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Hi All, & IMO, Todd is more or less correct in his assessment of the future of herbal medicine, at least in the western world. The FDA, EU and other western drug regulation authorities increasingly insist on well documented evidence of safety, efficacy and quality control for medicinal agents. Legislation will allow, and practitioners' insurance companies cover, only registered (authorised) drugs and medicinals. It will become more and more difficult to source single ingredients that meet the approval of the regulators. Many of the potent singles of the Chinese Pharmacopoeia (including bungarus, centipede, cicada, lumbricus, moschus, scorpio, toad venom, etc) will be banned in the West, Western TCM herbalists will be left with a very depleted and sanitised stock of authorised formulas or extracts. The " right " to construct personalised formulas, or even to modify registered formulas by addition or subtraction of single herbs probably will be banned soon. This will cause traditional Chinese herbalism, as practised in the West, to run aground in a stagnant backwater, from which there will be no easy channel back to mainstream medicine. In contrast, oriental herbalism is developing towards a biomedical model, involving research to identify, isolate and synthesise the more potent active ingredients from traditional herbs and formulas. See for example the research at the Natural Products Research Institute in Seoul, S. Korea: http://plaza.snu.ac.kr/~napri/eng/faculties.htm Patents on specific molecules, or combinations of molecules (and their sale and distribution via the pharmaceutical companies) are the likely outcomes from this research. These new compounds will be used, alone or with WM drugs, in biomedical models, using WM diagnostic methods. TCM Dx, IMO, will decline. We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for expert TCM Dx by Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little solid research to confirm that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be it by herbs or by acupuncture. These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's mails in recent weeks have been pointing inexorably in this direction. So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what SHOULD we salvage, before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the West? Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / herbal concepts that should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by well controlled research data, that these concepts are valid? How do we popularise them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking pattern of western medicine? Happy New Year to all. Best regards, Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353- WWW: " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt man doing it " - Chinese Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 > > [] > > Western TCM herbalists will be left with a very depleted and sanitised > stock of authorised formulas or extracts. The " right " to construct > personalised formulas, or even to modify registered formulas by addition > or subtraction of single herbs probably will be banned soon. [Jason] I have a hard time believing this will happen... Western herbalists, supplement manufactures etc etc would be involved... I doubt they could just target TCMers.. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Good Day All, The future is not as bleak as you might think. The critical insights of the last email are relevant facts that must be placed in the proper context. I firmly believe the future for TCM is very exciting, however I don't believe it will resemble the traditional TCM practisioner of the past. As with every aspect of our society change is a factor. in this case change is being fostered on by an outside influence, so the reaction is fear and resentment. The truth is that change is not selective it is random...the forces of change are simply finding you now. It hit the business community with killer force in the 90's with the advent of technology and the Internet. Thousands of business model were suddenly obsolete! As the regulatory evidence creates new constraints is does not speak to the growing interest of the consumer for all things energetic, and the consumer will rule!! It is clear to me that the future is very bright if one understand how to align with the forces of change to meet the emerging needs of the market. The mission was adapt or perish. The market characteristics of supply and demand are not suddenly going to change as a result of new regulations, what must change is the context for the delivery of service. The world of TCM has the capacity to adapt and reinvent themselves as " Lifestyle Consultants " This new model is a solution provider to the stresses of the 21st Century. The to reinvention is creating effective and profitable models for Knowledge Transfer. The Western consumer wants information that can be incorporate better living principles into their daily life. The TCM as a value added resource is the only practitioner capable to fill that void in my humble judgment. The TCM practitioner of tomorrow will have the capacity to bring solutions to consumers in unique ways. Case in point, 50 years ago we had the neighborhood grocery, they gave way in the 60's to the Supermarket serving more regional needs. 20 years later the neighborhood grocery came back repacked as a convenient store. If the TCM community recognizes the challenges and see them as energy to adapt the future is bright, if on the other hand it see it as a doomsday message, its already over.... Just food for thought for a rainy Saturday morning. Regards, Lee --- < wrote: > Hi All, & > > IMO, Todd is more or less correct in his assessment > of the future of > herbal medicine, at least in the western world. > > The FDA, EU and other western drug regulation > authorities increasingly > insist on well documented evidence of safety, > efficacy and quality > control for medicinal agents. > > Legislation will allow, and practitioners' insurance > companies cover, only > registered (authorised) drugs and medicinals. It > will become more and > more difficult to source single ingredients that > meet the approval of the > regulators. Many of the potent singles of the > Chinese Pharmacopoeia > (including bungarus, centipede, cicada, lumbricus, > moschus, scorpio, > toad venom, etc) will be banned in the West, > > Western TCM herbalists will be left with a very > depleted and sanitised > stock of authorised formulas or extracts. The > " right " to construct > personalised formulas, or even to modify registered > formulas by addition > or subtraction of single herbs probably will be > banned soon. > > This will cause traditional Chinese herbalism, as > practised in the West, > to run aground in a stagnant backwater, from which > there will be no > easy channel back to mainstream medicine. > > In contrast, oriental herbalism is developing > towards a biomedical > model, involving research to identify, isolate and > synthesise the more > potent active ingredients from traditional herbs and > formulas. > > See for example the research at the Natural Products > Research Institute > in Seoul, S. Korea: > http://plaza.snu.ac.kr/~napri/eng/faculties.htm > > Patents on specific molecules, or combinations of > molecules (and their > sale and distribution via the pharmaceutical > companies) are the likely > outcomes from this research. These new compounds > will be used, > alone or with WM drugs, in biomedical models, using > WM diagnostic > methods. TCM Dx, IMO, will decline. > > We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for > expert TCM Dx by > Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little > solid research to confirm > that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be it > by herbs or by > acupuncture. > > These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's mails > in recent weeks > have been pointing inexorably in this direction. > > So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what SHOULD > we salvage, > before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the West? > > Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / herbal > concepts that > should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by > well controlled > research data, that these concepts are valid? How do > we popularise > them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking > pattern of western > medicine? > > Happy New Year to all. > > > Best regards, > > > Tel: (H): +353- or (M): +353- > WWW: > > " Man who says it can't be done should not interrupt > man doing it " - > Chinese Proverb > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Phil, " You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one " (John Lennon). As long as the public continues to demand Chinese and alternative/complimentary resources, there will be Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine works, and the forces that you describe are largely dictated by the huge largess of money and political power that are the tools of these forces. The direction I think we must take as a profession is not to try to placate and get approval from the established forces of medicine, but to build our own structures, our own insurance, our own hospitals, our own research facilities based on pattern differentiation and the complete, full structure of Chinese medicine. Who cares if it is small, local, and not accepted by the medical establishment? If only a few of us do this, it will be worthwhile. I've devoted most of my life to the study, practice, and promotion of Chinese medicine, and I'm not going to stop just because the forces of pharmaceutical companies, legal and economic forces are so overpowering. Civilizations rise and fall, structures rise and fall, and there is no way to predict the future. I personally think that the insights of Chinese medicine are the wave of the future, not the remains of the past. Yours, Professor Moonbeam (aka ) On Jan 8, 2005, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > > We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for expert TCM Dx by > Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little solid research to > confirm > that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be it by herbs or by > acupuncture. > > These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's mails in recent weeks > have been pointing inexorably in this direction. > > So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what SHOULD we salvage, > before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the West? > > Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / herbal concepts that > should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by well controlled > research data, that these concepts are valid? How do we popularise > them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking pattern of western > medicine? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Zev, Sounds good but you will need practitioners to go with your hospital, how about using grads from your new school? Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " " <zrosenbe >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine >Re: The future of Chinese Herbal Medicine in the West? >Sat, 8 Jan 2005 18:29:42 -0800 > >Phil, > " You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one " (John >Lennon). > > As long as the public continues to demand Chinese and >alternative/complimentary resources, there will be Chinese medicine. >Chinese medicine works, and the forces that you describe are largely >dictated by the huge largess of money and political power that are the >tools of these forces. > >The direction I think we must take as a profession is not to try to >placate and get approval from the established forces of medicine, but >to build our own structures, our own insurance, our own hospitals, our >own research facilities based on pattern differentiation and the >complete, full structure of Chinese medicine. Who cares if it is >small, local, and not accepted by the medical establishment? > >If only a few of us do this, it will be worthwhile. I've devoted most >of my life to the study, practice, and promotion of Chinese medicine, >and I'm not going to stop just because the forces of pharmaceutical >companies, legal and economic forces are so overpowering. > >Civilizations rise and fall, structures rise and fall, and there is no >way to predict the future. I personally think that the insights of >Chinese medicine are the wave of the future, not the remains of the >past. > >Yours, > >Professor Moonbeam >(aka ) >On Jan 8, 2005, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > > > > > We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for expert TCM Dx by > > Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little solid research to > > confirm > > that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be it by herbs or by > > acupuncture. > > > > These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's mails in recent weeks > > have been pointing inexorably in this direction. > > > > So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what SHOULD we salvage, > > before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the West? > > > > Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / herbal concepts that > > should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by well controlled > > research data, that these concepts are valid? How do we popularise > > them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking pattern of western > > medicine? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Coincidentally, John Lennon was a proponent of Eastern Medicine, and credited it with his wife's becoming pregnant with their son, Sean. JG --- <zrosenbe wrote: > Phil, > " You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the > only one " (John > Lennon). > > As long as the public continues to demand Chinese > and > alternative/complimentary resources, there will be > Chinese medicine. > Chinese medicine works, and the forces that you > describe are largely > dictated by the huge largess of money and political > power that are the > tools of these forces. > > The direction I think we must take as a profession > is not to try to > placate and get approval from the established forces > of medicine, but > to build our own structures, our own insurance, our > own hospitals, our > own research facilities based on pattern > differentiation and the > complete, full structure of Chinese medicine. Who > cares if it is > small, local, and not accepted by the medical > establishment? > > If only a few of us do this, it will be worthwhile. > I've devoted most > of my life to the study, practice, and promotion of > Chinese medicine, > and I'm not going to stop just because the forces of > pharmaceutical > companies, legal and economic forces are so > overpowering. > > Civilizations rise and fall, structures rise and > fall, and there is no > way to predict the future. I personally think that > the insights of > Chinese medicine are the wave of the future, not the > remains of the > past. > > Yours, > > Professor Moonbeam > (aka ) > On Jan 8, 2005, at 10:11 AM, wrote: > > > > > We have often debated the need (or otherwise) for > expert TCM Dx by > > Pattern Differentiation etc. But we have little > solid research to > > confirm > > that TCM Dx is essential to effective therapy, be > it by herbs or by > > acupuncture. > > > > These are sombre thoughts for 2005, but Todd's > mails in recent weeks > > have been pointing inexorably in this direction. > > > > So, Quo Vadis CHA? What can we salvage, what > SHOULD we salvage, > > before the Titanic of TCM runs aground in the > West? > > > > Can we identify a few dozen essential TCM / > herbal concepts that > > should NOT be lost? Can we prove to skeptics, by > well controlled > > research data, that these concepts are valid? How > do we popularise > > them, and maybe even slip them into the thinking > pattern of western > > medicine? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > The all-new My - Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hi all, I agree with Z'ev. should be differentiated from Western Medicine at the framework, foundation, and structure of medicine. There is no scientific evidence and ground to judge by means of Western Medicine's standards and approaches. In some senses, the relationship between and Western Medicine is similar to the relationship between Chinese language and English language. To judge by means of Western Medicine's standards and approaches is similar to judge the correctness of Chinese language by means of English grammar. Will this work? The correctness of Chinese language should be judged by Chinese grammar. Similarly, the efficacy and safety of should be judged by 's standards and methodologies. Bob Xu <zrosenbe wrote: Phil, " You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one " (John Lennon). As long as the public continues to demand Chinese and alternative/complimentary resources, there will be Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine works, and the forces that you describe are largely dictated by the huge largess of money and political power that are the tools of these forces. The direction I think we must take as a profession is not to try to placate and get approval from the established forces of medicine, but to build our own structures, our own insurance, our own hospitals, our own research facilities based on pattern differentiation and the complete, full structure of Chinese medicine. Who cares if it is small, local, and not accepted by the medical establishment? If only a few of us do this, it will be worthwhile. I've devoted most of my life to the study, practice, and promotion of Chinese medicine, and I'm not going to stop just because the forces of pharmaceutical companies, legal and economic forces are so overpowering. Civilizations rise and fall, structures rise and fall, and there is no way to predict the future. I personally think that the insights of Chinese medicine are the wave of the future, not the remains of the past. Yours, Professor Moonbeam (aka ) On Jan 8, 2005, at 10:11 AM, wrote: Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Dear Professor Moonbeam and Bob Xu Agreed that this is a great concept and plan. There is one huge problem. The system-controllers WILL prevent you/us/the profession from attending to these goals or in the least they WILL severely restrict the desired outcome or they will usurp control over it. The profession MUST first gain its independence by LAW (usually in the courts) as a separate and distinct branch of medicine/healing which it already is in reality. Richard In a message dated 1/10/2005 4:54:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, bxu6 writes: Hi all, I agree with Z'ev. should be differentiated from Western Medicine at the framework, foundation, and structure of medicine. There is no scientific evidence and ground to judge by means of Western Medicine's standards and approaches. In some senses, the relationship between and Western Medicine is similar to the relationship between Chinese language and English language. To judge by means of Western Medicine's standards and approaches is similar to judge the correctness of Chinese language by means of English grammar. Will this work? The correctness of Chinese language should be judged by Chinese grammar. Similarly, the efficacy and safety of should be judged by 's standards and methodologies. Bob Xu <zrosenbe wrote: Phil, " You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one " (John Lennon). As long as the public continues to demand Chinese and alternative/complimentary resources, there will be Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine works, and the forces that you describe are largely dictated by the huge largess of money and political power that are the tools of these forces. The direction I think we must take as a profession is not to try to placate and get approval from the established forces of medicine, but to build our own structures, our own insurance, our own hospitals, our own research facilities based on pattern differentiation and the complete, full structure of Chinese medicine. Who cares if it is small, local, and not accepted by the medical establishment? If only a few of us do this, it will be worthwhile. I've devoted most of my life to the study, practice, and promotion of Chinese medicine, and I'm not going to stop just because the forces of pharmaceutical companies, legal and economic forces are so overpowering. Civilizations rise and fall, structures rise and fall, and there is no way to predict the future. I personally think that the insights of Chinese medicine are the wave of the future, not the remains of the past. Yours, Professor Moonbeam (aka ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Richard- Right on target!!! Remember, history teaches us that the powers-that-be have always used the courts when their arguments and practices can not squash their adversaries. John Garbarini --- acudoc11 wrote: > > Dear Professor Moonbeam and Bob Xu > > Agreed that this is a great concept and plan. > > There is one huge problem. The system-controllers > WILL prevent you/us/the > profession from attending to these goals or in the > least they WILL severely > restrict the desired outcome or they will usurp > control over it. > > The profession MUST first gain its independence by > LAW (usually in the > courts) as a separate and distinct branch of > medicine/healing which it already is in > reality. > > Richard > > In a message dated 1/10/2005 4:54:24 AM Eastern > Standard Time, bxu6 > writes: > > Hi all, > > I agree with Z'ev. should be > differentiated from Western > Medicine at the framework, foundation, and structure > of medicine. There is no > scientific evidence and ground to judge Chinese > Medicine by means of Western > Medicine's standards and approaches. > > In some senses, the relationship between Chinese > Medicine and Western > Medicine is similar to the relationship between > Chinese language and English > language. To judge by means of > Western Medicine's standards and > approaches is similar to judge the correctness of > Chinese language by means of > English grammar. Will this work? > > The correctness of Chinese language should be judged > by Chinese grammar. > Similarly, the efficacy and safety of Chinese > Medicine should be judged by > 's standards and methodologies. > > Bob Xu > > > <zrosenbe wrote: > Phil, > " You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the > only one " (John > Lennon). > > As long as the public continues to demand Chinese > and > alternative/complimentary resources, there will be > Chinese medicine. > Chinese medicine works, and the forces that you > describe are largely > dictated by the huge largess of money and political > power that are the > tools of these forces. > > The direction I think we must take as a profession > is not to try to > placate and get approval from the established forces > of medicine, but > to build our own structures, our own insurance, our > own hospitals, our > own research facilities based on pattern > differentiation and the > complete, full structure of Chinese medicine. Who > cares if it is > small, local, and not accepted by the medical > establishment? > > If only a few of us do this, it will be worthwhile. > I've devoted most > of my life to the study, practice, and promotion of > Chinese medicine, > and I'm not going to stop just because the forces of > pharmaceutical > companies, legal and economic forces are so > overpowering. > > Civilizations rise and fall, structures rise and > fall, and there is no > way to predict the future. I personally think that > the insights of > Chinese medicine are the wave of the future, not the > remains of the > past. > > Yours, > > Professor Moonbeam > (aka ) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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