Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi Sharon, The Carley case is very sad. Quackwatch has an article on the court case in which she was suspended from practising medicine on grounds of psychiatric delusional state. See: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/carley1.html IMO, like all powerful drugs, vaccination has its share of undesirable adverse reactions, some of which may trigger fatal disease. One should not vaccinate lightly, especially with live (albeit attenuated) vaccines. Vaccination of high-risk groups in the face of a definite challenge with specific infection is warranted. However, I am against routine mass vaccination and consider simultaneous multi-antigen vaccination to be undesirable, in that it can confuse the immune system with conflicting signals. Best regards, MVB, MRCVS T: 353-0; E-mail: Homepage : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/search.htm TECNOTES: _______________ Sign up for eircom broadband now and get a free two month trial.* Phone 1850 73 00 73 or visit http://home.eircom.net/broadbandoffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi Phil, I suppose for me inoculations are either safe and effective or dangerous and disastrous. I don't think there is a middle ground of 'vaccination of high risk group..... " . It is either good science or it is not, IMO. And that is what I would like to resolve. Does humoral immune system become suppressed if antigen specific system operating? Does this lead to autoimmune diseases? Is this reasonable theory, fact or just silly science? The idea that to introduce into the blood and avoid the gut's immune response, sounds reasonable to me. Does inoculations lead to SIDS? Are the high levels of ADD ADHD, immune issues, etc in kids result from inoculations? Are kids sicker today than previous generations? Best wishes, [] Monday, 27 December 2004 11:34 PM Chinese Medicine Re: - INOCULATIONS Hi Sharon, The Carley case is very sad. Quackwatch has an article on the court case in which she was suspended from practising medicine on grounds of psychiatric delusional state. See: http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/carley1.html IMO, like all powerful drugs, vaccination has its share of undesirable adverse reactions, some of which may trigger fatal disease. One should not vaccinate lightly, especially with live (albeit attenuated) vaccines. Vaccination of high-risk groups in the face of a definite challenge with specific infection is warranted. However, I am against routine mass vaccination and consider simultaneous multi-antigen vaccination to be undesirable, in that it can confuse the immune system with conflicting signals. Best regards, MVB, MRCVS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Sharon: I am going to go out on a limb here in response to your last paragraph. I am in the U.S. When I was adopting my son from Guatemala (he is 12 - so this was 12 years ago) I heard a statistic that children from Latin America had a higher incidence of ADHD. Children in this part of the world get a lot less vaccinations (I heard one in 4 die of measles before the age of 2 because of no vaccines.) than in the U.S. My son however got them through the adoption process and yet another one not required here at the time (Hep B). He has had some problems with this phenomena ADHD. So was it genetic or that he got the vaccines, or both? Who knows. My daughter(15 yrs old) also got a barage of vaccines - she 's biological born in U.S., Georgetown hospital as a matter of fact. She had no signs of ADHD. However, my son, born in the third world, under pretty poor conditions seems to be the healthiest and heartiest of us all really. My conclusion about vaccines is that it is better to have one, when you have a 25% chance of making it past 2 years old. And yes we have to evaluate the risks vs. the return in developed countires. I do think they are way overused and I am glad we are questioning it. Anne Sharon wrote: > > Hi Phil, > I suppose for me inoculations are either safe and effective or > dangerous and > disastrous. I don't think there is a middle ground of 'vaccination > of high > risk group..... " . It is either good science or it is not, IMO. > > And that is what I would like to resolve. Does humoral immune system > become > suppressed if antigen specific system operating? Does this lead to > autoimmune diseases? Is this reasonable theory, fact or just silly > science? > > The idea that to introduce into the blood and avoid the gut's immune > response, sounds reasonable to me. > > Does inoculations lead to SIDS? Are the high levels of ADD ADHD, immune > issues, etc in kids result from inoculations? Are kids sicker today than > previous generations? > Best wishes, > > > > > [] > Monday, 27 December 2004 11:34 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: - INOCULATIONS > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Here's a recent article you may want to read. Here are also a few links for you to look at: http://curezone.com/topic/vaccination/ http://www.nvic.org/ http://www.nmaseminars.com/ http://www.vaccineinfo.net/ http://www.thinktwice.com/ Good luck in your decision. Brian N Hardy A User-Friendly Vaccination Schedule By Donald W. Miller, Jr., M.D. dwm December 10, 2004 Vaccination is a controversial subject, and many parents worry about subjecting their children to them. Readers of my article " Mercury on the Mind, " about vaccines and dental amalgams, have asked what vaccines I would recommend their children receive. This article addresses that question. In the Recommended Childhood Immunization Schedule put out by the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), 12 vaccines are given to children before they reach the age of two. Providers inject them against hepatitis B, diphtheria, tetanus (lockjaw), pertussis (whooping cough), polio, pneumococcal infections, Hemophilus influenzae type b infections, measles, mumps, rubella (German measles), chickenpox, and influenza (the flu). Infectious disease was the leading cause of death in children 100 years ago, with diphtheria, measles, scarlet fever, and pertussis accounting for most them. Today the leading causes of death in children less than five years of age are accidents, genetic abnormalities, developmental disorders, sudden infant death syndrome, and cancer. A basic tenet of modern medicine is that vaccines are the reason. There is growing evidence that this is so, but perhaps not quite in the way conventional medical wisdom would have it. A 15-member Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices at the CDC decides which vaccines should be on the Childhood Immunization Schedule. It calls for one vaccine, against hepatitis B, to be given on the day of birth; 7 vaccines at two months; 6 more (including booster shots) at four months; and as many as 8 vaccines on the six month well-baby visit. Before a child reaches the age of two he or she will have received 32 vaccinations on this schedule, including four doses each of vaccines for Hemophilus influenzae type b infections, diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis – all of them given during the first 12 months of life. Seven vaccines injected into a 13 lb. two-month old infant are equivalent to 70 doses in a 130 lb. adult. The schedule states, " Your child can safely receive all vaccines recommended for a particular age during one visit. " Public health officials, however, have not proven that it is indeed safe to inject this any vaccines into infants. What''s more, they cannot explain why, concurrent with an increasing number of vaccinations, there has been an explosion of neurologic and immune system disorders in our nation’s children. Fifty years ago, when the immunization schedule contained only four vaccines (for diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and smallpox), autism was virtually unknown. First discovered in 1943, this most devastating malady in what is now a spectrum of pervasive developmental disorders afflicted less than 1 in 10,000 children. Today, one in every 68 American families has an autistic child. Other, less severe developmental disorders, rarely seen before the vaccine era, have also reached epidemic proportions. Four million American children have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. One in six American children are now classified as " Learning Disabled. " Our children are also experiencing an epidemic of autoimmune disorders – Type I diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, and bowel disorders. There has been a 17-fold increase in Type I diabetes, from 1 in 7,100 children in the 1950s to 1 in 400 now. Juvenile rheumatoid arthritis afflicts 300,000 American children. Twenty-five years ago this disease was so rare that public health officials did not keep any statistics on it. There has been a 4-fold increase in asthma, and bowel disorders in children are much more common now than they were 50 years ago. Health officials consider a vaccine to be safe if no bad reactions – like seizures, intestinal obstruction, or anaphylaxis – occur acutely. The CDC has not done any studies to assess the long-term effects of its immunization schedule. To do that one must conduct a randomized controlled trial, the lynchpin of evidenced-based medicine, where one group of children is vaccinated on the CDC’s schedule and a control group is not vaccinated. Investigators then follow the two groups for a number of years (not just three to four weeks, as has been done in vaccine safety studies). Concerns that vaccinations in infants cause chronic neurologic and immune system disorders would be put to rest, and their safety certified, if the number of children who develop these diseases is the same in both groups. No such studies have been done, so vaccine proponents cannot say that vaccines are indeed as safe as they think they are. (One proponent, interviewed by Dan Rather on 60 Minutes, who has financial ties to the vaccine industry that he did not disclose, claims that vaccines " have a better safety record than vitamins. " He neglected to mention that the U.S. government has paid out more than $1.5 billion in its Vaccine Injury Compensation Program to families of children who have been injured or killed by vaccines.) There is a growing body of evidence that implicates vaccines as a causative factor in the deteriorating health of children. The hypothesis that vaccines cause neurologic and immune system disorders is a legitimate one – vaccines given in multiple doses, close together, to very young children following the CDC’s Immunization Schedule. This hypothesis should be tested by a large-scale, long-term randomized controlled trial. Rather than obediently following the government’s schedule, there is now sufficient evidence, grounded in good science, to justify adopting a more user-friendly vaccination schedule, one which is in the best interests of the individual as opposed to what planners judge best for society as a whole. New knowledge in neuroimmunology (the study of how the brain’s immune system works) raises serious questions about the wisdom of injecting vaccines in children less than two years of age. The brain has its own specialized immune system, separate from that of the rest of the body. When a person is vaccinated, its specialized immune cells, the microglia, become activated (the blood-brain barrier notwithstanding). Multiple vaccinations spaced close together over-stimulate the microglia, causing them to release a variety of toxic elements – cytokines, chemokines, excitotoxins, proteases, complement, free radicals – that damage brain cells and their synaptic connections. Researchers call the damage caused by these toxic substances " bystander injury. " (Pediatricians and other professional colleagues who question this should read these two reviews by the neurosurgeon Russell L. Blaylock: " Interaction of Cytokines, Excitotoxins, Reactive Nitrogen and Oxygen Species in Autism Spectrum Disorders, " in the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association [JANA 2003;6(4):21–35], with 167 references. And " Chronic Microglial Activation and Excitotoxicity Secondary to Excessive Immune Stimulation: Possible Factors in Gulf War Syndrome and Autism, " in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons [JAPS 2004;9(2):46–52], posted online, with 54 references.) In humans, the most rapid period of brain development begins in the third trimester and continues over the first two years of extra uterine life. (By then brain development is 80 percent complete.) Until randomized controlled trials demonstrate the safety of giving vaccines during this time of life, it would be prudent not to give any vaccinations to children until they are [at least] two years old. From a risk-benefit perspective, there is growing evidence that the risk of neurologic and autoimmune diseases from vaccinations outweigh the benefits of avoiding the childhood infections that they prevent. An exception is hepatitis B vaccine for infants whose mothers test positive for this disease. A user-friendly vaccination schedule prohibits any vaccines that contain thimerosal, which is 50 percent mercury. Flu vaccines contain thimerosal, which is reason enough to avoid them. (See my article " Mercury on the Mind " for more on this subject.) One should also avoid vaccines that contain live viruses. This includes the combined measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine; chickenpox (varicella) vaccine; and the live-virus polio (Sabin) vaccine. This stricture would not apply to the smallpox vaccine (also a live-virus one), if a terrorist-instigated outbreak of smallpox should occur. Finally, a user-friendly vaccination schedule requires that vaccinations, after the age of two, be given no more than once every six months, one at a time, in order to allow the immune system sufficient time to recover and stabilize between shots. Which vaccines should be put on this schedule (among those that do not contain live viruses or thimerosal) is not entirely clear. The top four would be the pertussis (acelluar – aP – not whole cell), diphtheria (D), and tetanus (T) vaccines – given separately (not together, as is usually the case); and the Salk polio vaccine, with an inactivated (dead) virus, one that is cultured in human cells, not monkey kidney cells. Perhaps it should only contain these four vaccines. A good case can be made (for example, see Gary Null’s Vaccines: A Second Opinion) for avoiding the three other newer vaccines on the CDC’s schedule – the hepatitis B, pneumococcal conjugate (PCV7), and Hemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) vaccines. Your pediatrician will not like this schedule. They are taught in medical school and residency training that childhood immunizations are essential to public health. As one pediatrician puts it, " Achieving adequate and timely vaccination of young children is the single most valuable thing a doctor can do for a patient. " They do not question what their professors teach them, nor are they inclined to critically examine studies in Pediatrics and the New England Journal of Medicine that tell them vaccines are safe. There were 482,000 cases of measles in the U.S in 1962, the year before a vaccine for this disease became available. Now, with all fifty states requiring that children be vaccinated against measles in order to attend school, there were only 56 cases of measles in a population of 290 million people in 2003. These facts are well known and proudly cited by vaccine proponents. What is less known, and doctors are not taught, is that the death rate for measles declined 97.7 percent during the first 60 years of the 20th century. The mortality rate was 133 deaths per million people in the U.S. in 1900, and had dropped to 0.3 deaths per million by 1960 [i.e. 1 in 10 million-ST]. Measles caused less than 100 deaths a year in the U.S. before there was a vaccine for this disease (in 1963). The same thing happened with diphtheria and pertussis. Mortality rates dropped more than 90 percent in the early 20th century before vaccines for these diseases were introduced. This was due to better nutrition (with rapid delivery of fresh fruit and vegetables to cities and refrigeration), cleaner water, and improved sanitation (removing trash from the streets and better sewage systems), not to vaccines. The World Health Organization promotes mass vaccination, but knowing these facts states, " The best vaccine against common infectious diseases is an adequate diet " – fortified, one might add, with vitamin A. [THESE ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DISEASES WITHOUT VACCINES—ST] Since the measles vaccine came into widespread use in this country this disease has virtually disappeared, and it has prevented 100 deaths a year. But now, instead, several thousand normally developing children become autistic after receiving their MMR shot. Termed " regressive autism, " it accounts for about 30 percent of the 10,000 to 20,000 children who are diagnosed with autism in this country each year. To put to rest concerns that MMR vaccination might cause autism (in a small percentage of children), the New England Journal of Medicine, in 2002,published a population-based study from Denmark, where its authors concluded, " This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism. " The NEJM did not disclose that the " Statens Serum Institute, " where three of the authors work, is a for-profit vaccine manufacturer, Denmark’s largest, or that four other authors have financial ties to this company. Only one of the eight authors is not associated with this institute, and the CDC employs him. The study compares the prevalence of autism in 440,000 MMR vaccinated and 97,000 unvaccinated children in Denmark born in the 1990s. A statistical slight-of-hand in age adjustment makes the study show no causal effect; but when unmasked and reformatted, the data actually shows a statistically significant association between MMR vaccine and autism (as Carol Stott and her coauthors make clear in " MMR and Autism in Perspective: the Denmark Story, " in the Fall 2004 Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, posted online). Pediatrics and the Journal of the American Medical Association also have published studies like this supporting U.S. vaccine policy, written by authors with similar, undisclosed conflicts of interest. Looking elsewhere, however, one comes across a number of disquieting facts about vaccines. Investigators have found, for example, live measles virus in the cerebral spinal fluid in children who become autistic after MMR vaccination. Antibodies to measles virus are elevated in children with autism but not in normal kids, suggesting that virus-induced autoimmunity may play a causal role. A study published in Neurology this year implicates hepatitis B vaccine as a causative factor in multiple sclerosis. A communitarian ethic increasingly governs health care in the U.S. It places a greater value on the health of the community, on society as a whole, than on the health of particular individuals. Public health officials have put together a vaccination schedule designed to eliminate infectious diseases to which the population is prey. These officials recognize that these vaccines will harm a small percentage of (genetically susceptible) individuals, but it is for the common good. The communitarian code posits that it is morally acceptable, if necessary, to sacrifice a few for the good of the many. Or as one observer more bluntly puts it, " Individual sheep can be sheared and slaughtered if it is for the welfare of their flock. " In this framework, health care providers become agents of the state charged with injecting vaccines into people that the central planners deem necessary. Physicians who remain true to their Hippocratic Oath and place the interests of their patient above that of the herd are considered to be out of step with the times, if not an anachronism. Like central planners everywhere, the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) promulgates a self-serving, one-size-fits-all vaccine policy. Members of this committee have ties to vaccine makers, such that the CDC must grant them waivers from statutory conflict of interest rules. Even so, and with little evidence to show that it is safe to subject young children to the ACIP’s crowded immunization schedule, states nevertheless dutifully make its vaccine recommendations compulsory. All 50 states require children to be immunized against measles, diphtheria, Hemophilus influenzae type b, polio, and rubella in order to enroll in day care and/or public school. Forty-nine states also require vaccination against tetanus; 47, against hepatitis B and mumps; and 43 states now require vaccination against chickenpox. In order to shield themselves from any liability for making vaccinations compulsory, all states grant religious and medical exemptions. Eighteen states, in addition, allow a philosophical exemption. Some require only a letter from a parent and others, from a physician or church leader. Doctors who conclude that the risks of the government’s immunization schedule outweigh its benefits are placed in a difficult position. If they counsel parents not to have their children follow it, health care plans, which track vaccine compliance as a measure of " quality, " will find them wanting. And if their patient should contract and develop complications from the disease the vaccine would have prevented they may find themselves confronting a lawsuit. If a child becomes autistic following a vaccination, however, the doctor is protected from any liability because the government requires it and the child’s parents, if they had chosen to do so, could have obtained an exemption. (Anti-vaccine advocates call developing autism, asthma, and Type I diabetes after vaccinations " vaccination roulette. " ) Parents should have the freedom to select whatever vaccination schedule they want their children to follow, especially since health care providers and the government (except via its Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) cannot be held accountable for any adverse outcomes that might occur. But if parents elect to not follow the CDC’s immunization schedule, delaying some vaccinations, refusing others, or avoiding them altogether, then they must accept the risk that their child might contract the disease that the vaccine against it most likely would have prevented. [WHICH MOST PARENTS WHO CHOSE NOT TO VACCINATE ARE WILLING TO DO—ST] One consideration, which vaccine proponents do not address, is this: Could contracting childhood diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox play a constructive role in the maturation of a person’s immune system? Or, to put it another way, does removing natural infection from human experience have any adverse consequences? Our species’ immune system – a one-trillion-cell army that patrols our (100-trillion-cell) body – serves two main purposes. It destroys foreign invaders – viruses, bacteria, and other pathogens. And it destroys aberrant cells in the body that run amuck and cause cancer. Behind the barricades of skin and mucosa, our innate immune system (composed of phagocytes, natural killer cells, and the 20-protein complement system), which all animals have, is the body’s first line of defense. It reacts to invaders lightening fast and indiscriminately, but it is not very good at eliminating viruses and cancerous cells. Vertebrates have evolved a second line of defense – the adaptive immune system. It targets specific viruses and bacteria and has better artillery for eliminating cancerous cells. This system matures during childhood, and it has a cellular (Th1) and humoral (Th2) component (Th = helper T cell). The viruses that cause measles, mumps, and chickenpox have infected countless generations of humans, akin to a right of passage for each member of our species. Contracting these diseases strengthens both parts of the adaptive immune system (Th1 and Th2 ). Mothers who have had measles, mumps, and chickenpox transfer antibodies against them to their babies in utero, which protect them during the first year of life from contracting these infections. Vaccinations do not have the same effect on the immune system as naturally acquired diseases do. They stimulate predominantly the Th2 part of this system and not Th1. (Over-stimulation of Th2 causes autoimmune diseases.) The cellular Th1 side thwarts cancer, and if it does not become fully developed in childhood a person can be more prone to have cancer as an adult. Women who had mumps during childhood, for example, are found to be less likely to have ovarian cancer than women who did not have this infection. (This study was published in Cancer.) Could the fact that cancer has become a leading cause of death in children be a result of vaccinations? Only a randomized controlled trial can conclusively answer this question With rare exception, a well-nourished child who contracts measles will recover smoothly from the infection. Fifty years ago almost all children in the U.S. had measles. And after contracting this disease, one has life-long immunity to it. The protection provided by vaccination is temporary. Adults who contract measles (when the protective effects of the vaccine wears off) are much more likely to have neurological, testicular, and ovarian complications. Likewise, rubella is a benign disease in children, but if a woman acquires it during pregnancy fetal malformations may develop. One can argue, heretical as such an argument may be, that it would be better to let children have measles, at an age when the infection helps the adaptive immune system mature in a balanced Th1/Th2 fashion and complications from this disease are minimal, rather than vaccinate them against this disease (especially considering the risks of vaccination). Pertussis and Diphtheria are a different matter. These diseases are more virulent. Children who contract whooping cough (pertussis) can be incapacitated for more than a month. Polio can be devastating in susceptible individuals. And no one wants to get tetanus (lockjaw). A user-friendly vaccination schedule would include vaccines against these diseases. Whatever vaccination schedule one chooses, mothers should breast-feed their child for as long as possible – a year or more. Failing that, add Omega-3 fatty acids, especially DHA (docosahexaenoic acid), to the child’s formula. In summary, this is a vaccination schedule that I would recommend: ¨ No vaccinations until a child is two years old. ¨ No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury). ¨ No live virus vaccines (except for smallpox, should it recur). ¨ These vaccines, to be given one at a time, every six months, beginning at age 2: ¨ Pertussis (acellular, not whole cell) Diphtheria. Tetanus, Polio (the Salk vaccine, cultured in human cells) American children are the most highly vaccinated kids in the world. This schedule is an alternative to the one that rules our " vaccine nation " (as the Village Voice terms it). In contrast to the CDC’s immunization schedule, it is user-friendly. Donald Miller (send him mail) is a cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington in Seattle and a member of Doctors for Disaster Preparedness and writes articles on a variety of subjects for LewRockwell.com, including bioterrorism. His web site is www.donaldmiller.com. 2004 LewRockwell.com Anne Crowley <blazing.valley wrote: Sharon: I am going to go out on a limb here in response to your last paragraph. I am in the U.S. When I was adopting my son from Guatemala (he is 12 - so this was 12 years ago) I heard a statistic that children from Latin America had a higher incidence of ADHD. Children in this part of the world get a lot less vaccinations (I heard one in 4 die of measles before the age of 2 because of no vaccines.) than in the U.S. My son however got them through the adoption process and yet another one not required here at the time (Hep B). He has had some problems with this phenomena ADHD. So was it genetic or that he got the vaccines, or both? Who knows. My daughter(15 yrs old) also got a barage of vaccines - she 's biological born in U.S., Georgetown hospital as a matter of fact. She had no signs of ADHD. However, my son, born in the third world, under pretty poor conditions seems to be the healthiest and heartiest of us all really. My conclusion about vaccines is that it is better to have one, when you have a 25% chance of making it past 2 years old. And yes we have to evaluate the risks vs. the return in developed countires. I do think they are way overused and I am glad we are questioning it. Anne Sharon wrote: > > Hi Phil, > I suppose for me inoculations are either safe and effective or > dangerous and > disastrous. I don't think there is a middle ground of 'vaccination > of high > risk group..... " . It is either good science or it is not, IMO. > > And that is what I would like to resolve. Does humoral immune system > become > suppressed if antigen specific system operating? Does this lead to > autoimmune diseases? Is this reasonable theory, fact or just silly > science? > > The idea that to introduce into the blood and avoid the gut's immune > response, sounds reasonable to me. > > Does inoculations lead to SIDS? Are the high levels of ADD ADHD, immune > issues, etc in kids result from inoculations? Are kids sicker today than > previous generations? > Best wishes, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 People, I hear the words that vaccination is acceptable for this or that situation. That is ridiculous and I would encourage all of us to get better educated to this by spending some time at a medical school library. I spent time at UCSD in a room that was devoted entirely to vaccines and most books focused upon terrible side effects. What we tend to forget do to our propaganda like upbringing is that there is no long term safety studies which support this mode of treatment. Many of the long term declines in illness have come pre-vaccination when people develop immunity to the illness. Lets not forget that major contributions to our health came from internal heating, sanitation and water treatment. These as well have their problems but these adaptations solved many issues. What we need to ask for is good accountable common sense and study. Lastly, vaccines have been shown to create intercranial bleeding, which can lead to SIDS. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " " < >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Re: - INOCULATIONS >Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:33:31 +0000 > >Hi Sharon, > >The Carley case is very sad. Quackwatch has an article on the court case in >which she was suspended from practising medicine on grounds of psychiatric >delusional state. See: >http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/carley1.html > >IMO, like all powerful drugs, vaccination has its share of undesirable >adverse reactions, some of which may trigger fatal disease. One should not >vaccinate lightly, especially with live (albeit attenuated) vaccines. > >Vaccination of high-risk groups in the face of a definite challenge with >specific infection is warranted. > >However, I am against routine mass vaccination and consider simultaneous >multi-antigen vaccination to be undesirable, in that it can confuse the >immune system with conflicting signals. > >Best regards, > MVB, MRCVS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi Mike & All, Mike Bowser wrote: > Many of the long term declines in illness have come pre-vaccination > when people develop immunity to the illness. Mike did you mean " Many of the long term declines in illness have come AFTER vaccination when people develop immunity to the illness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi Anne, It certainly comes down to a parent making what he/she thinks is in the best interest of the child. The difficulty in that is the lack of information. In NZ, both the pros and cons of vaccinating are given and the parent/s choose. Problem is world wide parents often go for vaccination out of fear, never a good decision making tool. I suspect higher disease incident in 3rd world countries, due to emotional distress, hygiene and nutrition.... at least in part. Many epidemic disease came under control with improvement in hygiene years before the population was vaccinated. There is an argument for children going through measles etc as part of the maturation of the immune system... use to have in UK measles parties where mums would bring their well children into exposure of sick child to get the disease. In lst world countries more children die from measles vaccination than from measles. I don't recall the scientific details, but the reason ADD ADHD is higher in boys has to do at least in part with their testosterone in relationship to vaccinations. The other two problems with vaccinations even if you believe the poor quality of science that I have come across as to their efficacy, is that they contain adjuncts of mercury (the second most toxic metal known to humans kids get it in doses 1'000s greater than what is considered safe) and aluminium and are grown on such material as aborted foetus, animal organs, chicken yolk. So these are foreign proteins that may, as the article said cause autoimmune diseases. I have read also problem with vaccinations is that the immune system directly related to the brain is set off and does not stop after vaccination. Humans can't sustain prolonged immune response. There is so much in this topic, separating possible theories and speculations from facts and philosophical belief is a major problem in coming to conclusion. There is over whelming evidence of the dangers of vaccination. In usa, no insurance company will cover vaccinations so Federal government covers it. If the insurance companies won't cover the risk, you have to wonder about its safety and efficacy. Personally my animals don't get vaccinated, and if I had kids I would consider vaccination as child abuse... but each has to make up their own minds if they are responsible for another's well being, be that kids or animals. Best wishes, Anne Crowley [blazing.valley] Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:34 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS Sharon: I am going to go out on a limb here in response to your last paragraph. I am in the U.S. When I was adopting my son from Guatemala (he is 12 - so this was 12 years ago) I heard a statistic that children from Latin America had a higher incidence of ADHD. Children in this part of the world get a lot less vaccinations (I heard one in 4 die of measles before the age of 2 because of no vaccines.) than in the U.S. My son however got them through the adoption process and yet another one not required here at the time (Hep B). He has had some problems with this phenomena ADHD. So was it genetic or that he got the vaccines, or both? Who knows. My daughter(15 yrs old) also got a barage of vaccines - she 's biological born in U.S., Georgetown hospital as a matter of fact. She had no signs of ADHD. However, my son, born in the third world, under pretty poor conditions seems to be the healthiest and heartiest of us all really. My conclusion about vaccines is that it is better to have one, when you have a 25% chance of making it past 2 years old. And yes we have to evaluate the risks vs. the return in developed countires. I do think they are way overused and I am glad we are questioning it. Anne Sharon wrote: > > Hi Phil, > I suppose for me inoculations are either safe and effective or > dangerous and > disastrous. I don't think there is a middle ground of 'vaccination > of high > risk group..... " . It is either good science or it is not, IMO. > > And that is what I would like to resolve. Does humoral immune system > become > suppressed if antigen specific system operating? Does this lead to > autoimmune diseases? Is this reasonable theory, fact or just silly > science? > > The idea that to introduce into the blood and avoid the gut's immune > response, sounds reasonable to me. > > Does inoculations lead to SIDS? Are the high levels of ADD ADHD, immune > issues, etc in kids result from inoculations? Are kids sicker today than > previous generations? > Best wishes, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hi Sharon, Here in Australia, I had my twin daughters vaccinated at age 6 weeks (12 years ago). One of them had what i now know as " hypotonic episode " that is a brain storm of the flaccid type. A well documented side effect to the triple antigen. At the time neither the ambulance officers nor the peadiatricians at the childrens hospital told me anything. They all commented that her vital signs were in tact and she was alive. In fact she stopped responding to me and increased her sleep for the next 2 weeks and remained glassy eyed and grey coloured. At the 2 week post injection time a friend visited who was a homeopath. He gave her a vaccination antidote and the next morning she was " alive " and repsonding to me again. When i tried to find out what happened and went to the Health Department, the Childrens Hospital, our vaccinating doctor, nobody could tell me. I wanted to know the risk factors of the side effects of the vaccinations as opposed to the same for the disease. I could find this information no-where. It was only 8 months later when a clinical nurse consultant was trying to talk me into another inoculation of my babies that i discovered what the real effect on my child had been. I subsequently got the information from a senior doctor in the field who said that if all parents were given the correct information on the risks of vaccinations then they would most likely not vaccinate. It was therefore detemined by the patriachs of public health. that the good of the whole was worth sacrificing a few babies for. But how could we know this as fact if statistcal evidence about numbers was being suppressed. and worse, doctors not even being required to notify it there is an adverse reaction. I have subsequently determined to no longer vaccinate,and feel very suspicious of any pressure to do so unless i can be furnished with good scientific data that shows me the risks out weigh the benefits. One last point, the requirement to register adverse vaccination events was abolished 13 years before my daughters were born., and the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories , repsonsible for producing most of the vaccinations in Australia was privatised a few years before they were born! Best Wishes Anita -- Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release 12/26/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 No, the actual decline in most serious epidemics came before there was any vaccine. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > >Chinese Medicine >Chinese Medicine > Re: - INOCULATIONS >Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:32:32 -0000 > >Hi Mike & All, > >Mike Bowser wrote: > > > Many of the long term declines in illness have come pre-vaccination > > when people develop immunity to the illness. > >Mike did you mean " Many of the long term declines in illness have come >AFTER vaccination when people develop immunity to the illness? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Sharon: My children were vaccinated 15 and 12 years ago respectively, long before I was aware of the dangers. I do believe it is a law to have them vaccinated or they can't attend public (and possible private) schools. I saw one report where a lady in Wash. D.C. (or some county nearby) was held criminally responsbile to vaccinate her child. I can't recall the details. Now, if I were starting all over, I would go to the school board and try to fight this but as I understand it, it is a law to have them vaccinated. Anne Sharon wrote: > > Hi Anne, > > It certainly comes down to a parent making what he/she thinks is in > the best > interest of the child. The difficulty in that is the lack of information. > > In NZ, both the pros and cons of vaccinating are given and the parent/s > choose. > > Problem is world wide parents often go for vaccination out of fear, > never a > good decision making tool. I suspect higher disease incident in 3rd world > countries, due to emotional distress, hygiene and nutrition.... at > least in > part. Many epidemic disease came under control with improvement in > hygiene > years before the population was vaccinated. > > There is an argument for children going through measles etc as part of the > maturation of the immune system... use to have in UK measles parties where > mums would bring their well children into exposure of sick child to > get the > disease. In lst world countries more children die from measles > vaccination > than from measles. > > I don't recall the scientific details, but the reason ADD ADHD is > higher in > boys has to do at least in part with their testosterone in relationship to > vaccinations. > > The other two problems with vaccinations even if you believe the poor > quality of science that I have come across as to their efficacy, is that > they contain adjuncts of mercury (the second most toxic metal known to > humans kids get it in doses 1'000s greater than what is considered > safe) and > aluminium and are grown on such material as aborted foetus, animal organs, > chicken yolk. So these are foreign proteins that may, as the article said > cause autoimmune diseases. > > I have read also problem with vaccinations is that the immune system > directly related to the brain is set off and does not stop after > vaccination. Humans can't sustain prolonged immune response. > > There is so much in this topic, separating possible theories and > speculations from facts and philosophical belief is a major problem in > coming to conclusion. There is over whelming evidence of the dangers of > vaccination. In usa, no insurance company will cover vaccinations so > Federal government covers it. If the insurance companies won't cover the > risk, you have to wonder about its safety and efficacy. Personally my > animals don't get vaccinated, and if I had kids I would consider > vaccination > as child abuse... but each has to make up their own minds if they are > responsible for another's well being, be that kids or animals. > > Best wishes, > > > > > Anne Crowley [blazing.valley] > Tuesday, 28 December 2004 2:34 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS > > > > Sharon: > > I am going to go out on a limb here in response to your last paragraph. > I am in the U.S. When I was adopting my son from Guatemala (he is 12 - > so this was 12 years ago) I heard a statistic that children from Latin > America had a higher incidence of ADHD. Children in this part of the > world get a lot less vaccinations (I heard one in 4 die of measles > before the age of 2 because of no vaccines.) than in the U.S. My son > however got them through the adoption process and yet another one not > required here at the time (Hep B). He has had some problems with this > phenomena ADHD. So was it genetic or that he got the vaccines, or > both? Who knows. My daughter(15 yrs old) also got a barage of > vaccines - she 's biological born in U.S., Georgetown hospital as a > matter of fact. She had no signs of ADHD. However, my son, born in the > third world, under pretty poor conditions seems to be the healthiest and > heartiest of us all really. > > My conclusion about vaccines is that it is better to have one, when you > have a 25% chance of making it past 2 years old. And yes we have to > evaluate the risks vs. the return in developed countires. I do think > they are way overused and I am glad we are questioning it. > > Anne > > Sharon wrote: > > > > > Hi Phil, > > I suppose for me inoculations are either safe and effective or > > dangerous and > > disastrous. I don't think there is a middle ground of 'vaccination > > of high > > risk group..... " . It is either good science or it is not, IMO. > > > > And that is what I would like to resolve. Does humoral immune system > > become > > suppressed if antigen specific system operating? Does this lead to > > autoimmune diseases? Is this reasonable theory, fact or just silly > > science? > > > > The idea that to introduce into the blood and avoid the gut's immune > > response, sounds reasonable to me. > > > > Does inoculations lead to SIDS? Are the high levels of ADD ADHD, > immune > > issues, etc in kids result from inoculations? Are kids sicker today > than > > previous generations? > > Best wishes, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Thanks Brian! Brian Hardy [mischievous00] Tuesday, 28 December 2004 3:12 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS Here's a recent article you may want to read. Here are also a few links for you to look at: http://curezone.com/topic/vaccination/ http://www.nvic.org/ http://www.nmaseminars.com/ http://www.vaccineinfo.net/ http://www.thinktwice.com/ Good luck in your decision. Brian N Hardy A User-Friendly Vaccination Schedule By Donald W. Miller, Jr., M.D. dwm December 10, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Hi Anita, Your story is heart breaking and I suppose true for more people than are accounted for. The concept 'of best for the herd' might just be theory until it is your own child or grandchild, or one of your patients, and then maybe it gets questioned. The science on safety and efficacy of vaccinations is really weak, it is much more a philosophical rationale (a bit of an oxymoron). If philosophies were logical they would be science and not philosophies. I wonder how much 'soft' neurological damage is done that isn't seen, let alone the your brain storm, ADD's, SIDS etc. I recently treated a dog which came down with epilepsy after its jabs and the vet wanted to put it down. Happy to say we had a good recovery, along as the owner keeps the Staffy off processed meats and grains, she is slow taking it off its western meds without further incidents and the Shen is now very much present! I wonder if natural therapist could start a campaign to undermine vaccinations? Perhaps that is what we need to do is select an issue and world wide whittle it away, and start a paradigm shift in morphological fields. A sort of brick by brick breaking down of the worst aspects of wm and the drug monopolies that it supports. Other possible topics anyone?!? Best wishes, Anita Binnington [abinnington] Tuesday, 28 December 2004 9:24 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS Hi Sharon, Here in Australia, I had my twin daughters vaccinated at age 6 weeks (12 years ago). One of them had what i now know as " hypotonic episode " that is a brain storm of the flaccid type. A well documented side effect to the triple antigen. At the time neither the ambulance officers nor the peadiatricians at the childrens hospital told me anything. They all commented that her vital signs were in tact and she was alive. In fact she stopped responding to me and increased her sleep for the next 2 weeks and remained glassy eyed and grey coloured. At the 2 week post injection time a friend visited who was a homeopath. He gave her a vaccination antidote and the next morning she was " alive " and repsonding to me again. When i tried to find out what happened and went to the Health Department, the Childrens Hospital, our vaccinating doctor, nobody could tell me. I wanted to know the risk factors of the side effects of the vaccinations as opposed to the same for the disease. I could find this information no-where. It was only 8 months later when a clinical nurse consultant was trying to talk me into another inoculation of my babies that i discovered what the real effect on my child had been. I subsequently got the information from a senior doctor in the field who said that if all parents were given the correct information on the risks of vaccinations then they would most likely not vaccinate. It was therefore detemined by the patriachs of public health. that the good of the whole was worth sacrificing a few babies for. But how could we know this as fact if statistcal evidence about numbers was being suppressed. and worse, doctors not even being required to notify it there is an adverse reaction. I have subsequently determined to no longer vaccinate,and feel very suspicious of any pressure to do so unless i can be furnished with good scientific data that shows me the risks out weigh the benefits. One last point, the requirement to register adverse vaccination events was abolished 13 years before my daughters were born., and the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories , repsonsible for producing most of the vaccinations in Australia was privatised a few years before they were born! Best Wishes Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 My teacher told me that in olden days in China, when some warm pathogen come to a village (I think she was talking about chicken pox), people would have taken liquid from skin eruptions of the first effected child and introduce it by scratching to all other children in a village. My teacher was not very specific. It started me thinking that if that approach had some effect. It would from TCM point of view be a better way to be exposed to a pathogen: not to a blood level but to a Wei Qi level. Any comments? Peter Pavolotsky --- Sharon <> wrote: Hi Anita, Your story is heart breaking and I suppose true for more people than are accounted for. The concept 'of best for the herd' might just be theory until it is your own child or grandchild, or one of your patients, and then maybe it gets questioned. The science on safety and efficacy of vaccinations is really weak, it is much more a philosophical rationale (a bit of an oxymoron). If philosophies were logical they would be science and not philosophies. I wonder how much 'soft' neurological damage is done that isn't seen, let alone the your brain storm, ADD's, SIDS etc. I recently treated a dog which came down with epilepsy after its jabs and the vet wanted to put it down. Happy to say we had a good recovery, along as the owner keeps the Staffy off processed meats and grains, she is slow taking it off its western meds without further incidents and the Shen is now very much present! I wonder if natural therapist could start a campaign to undermine vaccinations? Perhaps that is what we need to do is select an issue and world wide whittle it away, and start a paradigm shift in morphological fields. A sort of brick by brick breaking down of the worst aspects of wm and the drug monopolies that it supports. Other possible topics anyone?!? Best wishes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Chinese Medicine , Peter Pavolotsky <peter911cm> wrote: > > My teacher told me that in olden days in China, when > some warm pathogen come to a village (I think she was > talking about chicken pox), people would have taken > liquid from skin eruptions of the first effected child > and introduce it by scratching to all other children > in a village. My teacher was not very specific. > It started me thinking that if that approach had some > effect. It would from TCM point of view be a better > way to be exposed to a pathogen: not to a blood level > but to a Wei Qi level. > Any comments? > > Peter Pavolotsky > I can't remember the date that they did it, but I believe that the Chinese took the scabs from people with smallpox and placed them in the nose of unaffected people. I think this was the first documented use of something akin to a vaccine. Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 IMO - the debate over the benefit to risk ratio of vaccinations/inoculations reveals an uncomfortable weakness in the promise of science as the means by which we can come to know the truth. The fact is it is virtually impossible to use statistical analysis to predict the future - in this case the question of what would be the consequence of not vaccinating. We can only look back and try to project past experiences into the future. In doing so we are forced to make many subjective choices that are essentially opinions rather than facts. Personal bias then enters the equation - those who are inclined to believe inoculations are among the greatest achievements of modern medicine will interpret the data differently than those who believe that manipulating nature inevitably brings negative consequences. Mark Twain once commented that there are three types of liars in life: " Liars, damn liars, and statisticians. " Even without outright lying, statistically based science is riddled with subjective opinion, especially when it comes to trying to know the future. Both of my children and the family dog had near-fatal reactions to vaccinations. However, I am not so sure I want to see all inoculation programs stopped around the world. Matt Bauer - Sharon Chinese Medicine Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:36 AM RE: Re: - INOCULATIONS Hi Anita, Your story is heart breaking and I suppose true for more people than are accounted for. The concept 'of best for the herd' might just be theory until it is your own child or grandchild, or one of your patients, and then maybe it gets questioned. The science on safety and efficacy of vaccinations is really weak, it is much more a philosophical rationale (a bit of an oxymoron). If philosophies were logical they would be science and not philosophies. I wonder how much 'soft' neurological damage is done that isn't seen, let alone the your brain storm, ADD's, SIDS etc. I recently treated a dog which came down with epilepsy after its jabs and the vet wanted to put it down. Happy to say we had a good recovery, along as the owner keeps the Staffy off processed meats and grains, she is slow taking it off its western meds without further incidents and the Shen is now very much present! I wonder if natural therapist could start a campaign to undermine vaccinations? Perhaps that is what we need to do is select an issue and world wide whittle it away, and start a paradigm shift in morphological fields. A sort of brick by brick breaking down of the worst aspects of wm and the drug monopolies that it supports. Other possible topics anyone?!? Best wishes, Anita Binnington [abinnington] Tuesday, 28 December 2004 9:24 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS Hi Sharon, Here in Australia, I had my twin daughters vaccinated at age 6 weeks (12 years ago). One of them had what i now know as " hypotonic episode " that is a brain storm of the flaccid type. A well documented side effect to the triple antigen. At the time neither the ambulance officers nor the peadiatricians at the childrens hospital told me anything. They all commented that her vital signs were in tact and she was alive. In fact she stopped responding to me and increased her sleep for the next 2 weeks and remained glassy eyed and grey coloured. At the 2 week post injection time a friend visited who was a homeopath. He gave her a vaccination antidote and the next morning she was " alive " and repsonding to me again. When i tried to find out what happened and went to the Health Department, the Childrens Hospital, our vaccinating doctor, nobody could tell me. I wanted to know the risk factors of the side effects of the vaccinations as opposed to the same for the disease. I could find this information no-where. It was only 8 months later when a clinical nurse consultant was trying to talk me into another inoculation of my babies that i discovered what the real effect on my child had been. I subsequently got the information from a senior doctor in the field who said that if all parents were given the correct information on the risks of vaccinations then they would most likely not vaccinate. It was therefore detemined by the patriachs of public health. that the good of the whole was worth sacrificing a few babies for. But how could we know this as fact if statistcal evidence about numbers was being suppressed. and worse, doctors not even being required to notify it there is an adverse reaction. I have subsequently determined to no longer vaccinate,and feel very suspicious of any pressure to do so unless i can be furnished with good scientific data that shows me the risks out weigh the benefits. One last point, the requirement to register adverse vaccination events was abolished 13 years before my daughters were born., and the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories , repsonsible for producing most of the vaccinations in Australia was privatised a few years before they were born! Best Wishes Anita http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 This does not require an all or nothing approach. The third option is for development of better ways to distinguish risks and safer vaccines or homeopathic nosodes. The science currently is very limited and would question vaccinations as they stand. Vaccines carry a rather large ability to do unforeseen damage or death to people. If you knew how they were made you would think we were back in the stone ages. As a result of this processing, they use thimerosol (mercury), one of the most lethal of substances to kill off microorganisms and others like Aluminum as an adjutant. So, in essence, what you are getting is a cocktail of potentially deadly things. You immune system is meant to deal with one thing at a time. Many of the substances in these shots can depress your immune system, definitely not the intended goal. You may not get sick now but you may have a serious illness later as a result. It seems to me that we only know half the equation here. We know that we can stimulate the immune system but what about the nutritional makeup of a healthy immune system? What has science done along this line? Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac On 12/28/04 10:48 AM, " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy wrote: > IMO - the debate over the benefit to risk ratio of vaccinations/inoculations > reveals an uncomfortable weakness in the promise of science as the means by > which we can come to know the truth. The fact is it is virtually impossible to > use statistical analysis to predict the future - in this case the question of > what would be the consequence of not vaccinating. We can only look back and > try to project past experiences into the future. In doing so we are forced to > make many subjective choices that are essentially opinions rather than facts. > Personal bias then enters the equation - those who are inclined to believe > inoculations are among the greatest achievements of modern medicine will > interpret the data differently than those who believe that manipulating nature > inevitably brings negative consequences. Mark Twain once commented that there > are three types of liars in life: " Liars, damn liars, and statisticians. " Even > without outright lying, statistically based science is riddled with subjective > opinion, especially when it comes to trying to know the future. > > > > Both of my children and the family dog had near-fatal reactions to > vaccinations. However, I am not so sure I want to see all inoculation programs > stopped around the world. Matt Bauer > - > Sharon > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:36 AM > RE: Re: - INOCULATIONS > > > > Hi Anita, > > Your story is heart breaking and I suppose true for more people than are > accounted for. > > The concept 'of best for the herd' might just be theory until it is your own > child or grandchild, or one of your patients, and then maybe it gets > questioned. The science on safety and efficacy of vaccinations is really > weak, it is much more a philosophical rationale (a bit of an oxymoron). If > philosophies were logical they would be science and not philosophies. > > I wonder how much 'soft' neurological damage is done that isn't seen, let > alone the your brain storm, ADD's, SIDS etc. I recently treated a dog which > came down with epilepsy after its jabs and the vet wanted to put it down. > Happy to say we had a good recovery, along as the owner keeps the Staffy off > processed meats and grains, she is slow taking it off its western meds > without further incidents and the Shen is now very much present! > > I wonder if natural therapist could start a campaign to undermine > vaccinations? Perhaps that is what we need to do is select an issue and > world wide whittle it away, and start a paradigm shift in morphological > fields. A sort of brick by brick breaking down of the worst aspects of wm > and the drug monopolies that it supports. > > Other possible topics anyone?!? > > Best wishes, > > > > > Anita Binnington [abinnington] > Tuesday, 28 December 2004 9:24 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS > > > > Hi Sharon, > Here in Australia, I had my twin daughters vaccinated at age 6 weeks (12 > years ago). One of them had what i now know as " hypotonic episode " that > is a brain storm of the flaccid type. A well documented side effect to > the triple antigen. At the time neither the ambulance officers nor the > peadiatricians at the childrens hospital told me anything. They all > commented that her vital signs were in tact and she was alive. In fact > she stopped responding to me and increased her sleep for the next 2 > weeks and remained glassy eyed and grey coloured. At the 2 week post > injection time a friend visited who was a homeopath. He gave her a > vaccination antidote and the next morning she was " alive " and repsonding > to me again. > When i tried to find out what happened and went to the Health > Department, the Childrens Hospital, our vaccinating doctor, nobody could > tell me. I wanted to know the risk factors of the side effects of the > vaccinations as opposed to the same for the disease. I could find this > information no-where. It was only 8 months later when a clinical nurse > consultant was trying to talk me into another inoculation of my babies > that i discovered what the real effect on my child had been. I > subsequently got the information from a senior doctor in the field who > said that if all parents were given the correct information on the risks > of vaccinations then they would most likely not vaccinate. It was > therefore detemined by the patriachs of public health. that the good of > the whole was worth sacrificing a few babies for. But how could we know > this as fact if statistcal evidence about numbers was being suppressed. > and worse, doctors not even being required to notify it there is an > adverse reaction. I have subsequently determined to no longer > vaccinate,and feel very suspicious of any pressure to do so unless i can > be furnished with good scientific data that shows me the risks out weigh > the benefits. > One last point, the requirement to register adverse vaccination events > was abolished 13 years before my daughters were born., and the > Commonwealth Serum Laboratories , repsonsible for producing most of the > vaccinations in Australia was privatised a few years before they were > born! > > Best Wishes > Anita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 There is some interesting material on vaccination in Chinese medicine, pre-modern era, in " Science and Civilization in China " (Joseph Needham) vo. VI:6, and in " Forgotten Traditions of Ancient , by Xu Da-chun (translated by Paul Unschuld), chapter on " Pox Planting " . I've lectured a lot on this subject, but one I idea I can summarize quickly is that Dr. Xu believed that one should only inoculate healthy people without other illnesses. In my opinion, one of the major problems with vaccination programs is the use of multiple vaccines in one shot, which may confuse the immune system. Phil, any data on this? On Dec 28, 2004, at 8:08 AM, Peter Pavolotsky wrote: > > My teacher told me that in olden days in China, when > some warm pathogen come to a village (I think she was > talking about chicken pox), people would have taken > liquid from skin eruptions of the first effected child > and introduce it by scratching to all other children > in a village. My teacher was not very specific. > It started me thinking that if that approach had some > effect. It would from TCM point of view be a better > way to be exposed to a pathogen: not to a blood level > but to a Wei Qi level. > Any comments? > > Peter Pavolotsky > > > --- Sharon <> wrote: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Correct. It is documented in the Joseph Needham volume VI:6 (Science and Civilization in China). On Dec 28, 2004, at 8:29 AM, smilinglotus wrote: > > I can't remember the date that they did it, but I believe that the > Chinese took the scabs from people with smallpox and placed them in > the nose of unaffected people. I think this was the first > documented use of something akin to a vaccine. > > Eric Brand > > > > > > > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Check your state laws. There are more loopholes than you think. In California, one can easily file for conscientious objector status. On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:27 PM, Anne Crowley wrote: > > Sharon: > > My children were vaccinated 15 and 12 years ago respectively, long > before I was aware of the dangers. I do believe it is a law to have > them vaccinated or they can't attend public (and possible private) > schools. I saw one report where a lady in Wash. D.C. (or some county > nearby) was held criminally responsbile to vaccinate her child. I > can't > recall the details. Now, if I were starting all over, I would go to > the > school board and try to fight this but as I understand it, it is a law > to have them vaccinated. > > Anne > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 In California (Santa Cruz, anyway) one can very easily opt out of vaccinations. BUT if there is an outbreak - say one student in the school gets the measles - all those that have _not been vaccinated may not attend school_. They have to stay home for 2 weeks. As was my daughter requested to do so. Just quietly sitting in Starbucks and the principle calls .... hey ed, pick up your daughter right away and keep her home for the next two weeks .... Luckily she only missed 1/2 day as the school was going into spring break. Applies to public or private schools. Peer pressure - both to parents and the children has been intense. Not good for the liver Qi!!! My wife insisted our daughter get her shots because the doctors and the school all demanded that they done telling her it was the law. Matter-of-fact we could not get our baby out of the hospitals without shots. When my youngest came down with a rash shortly after (2 months) they doctor denied any causative relationship and refused to report anything as adverse reactions because it was not within a week of the shots. I refused to complete the series of shots unless the doctor could guarantee safety as evidenced by rash, so the doctors signed off. Doctors are giving Hepatitis Shots to babies - before their 6 months old saying it is mandatory !!! Schools now have the power to have my child tested for ADD - without my permission and knowledge. And to prescribe and dispense any necessary drug to my child. If I refuse the drugs then my child will not be allowed to attend school (either public or private). Schools already have the power over abortion and related heath care / drugs without my permission or knowledge. What I've come to believe is that its easier to go along with the flow BUT to prepare the body nutritionally both before and after the shots. AND to treat with Homeopathic Remedies Immediately before/after the shots. I would like to see Chinese Herbs and Diet (nutrition) get involved like the naturopaths, chiros and homeopaths HAVE ALREADY done. It IS a drug war out there, Any ideas on formulas, treatment Strategies for before and after shots ? Ed Kasper L.Ac., Acupuncturist & Medicinal Herbalist Santa Cruz, CA Message: 9 Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:52:37 -0800 " " <zrosenbe Re: Re: - INOCULATIONS Check your state laws. There are more loopholes than you think. In California, one can easily file for conscientious objector status. On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:27 PM, Anne Crowley wrote: > > Sharon: > > My children were vaccinated 15 and 12 years ago respectively, long > before I was aware of the dangers. I do believe it is a law to have > them vaccinated or they can't attend public (and possible private) > schools. I saw one report where a lady in Wash. D.C. (or some county > nearby) was held criminally responsbile to vaccinate her child. I > can't > recall the details. Now, if I were starting all over, I would go to > the > school board and try to fight this but as I understand it, it is a law > to have them vaccinated. > > Anne > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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