Guest guest Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 > Sharon, I'm glad you brought this up. I taught a class called Clinical Point Selection which was basically a history and discussion of the different traditions more than yet another list of points corresponding to conditions. I got some flak for my approach by the school and confusion by (some) students about what I was doing. Now the class is taught by a top-notch Beijing doctor and I don't disagree with the school's decision to use her but I am grateful I was able to get some of these concepts out there. doug > Message: 6 > Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:09:33 +1000 > <> > RE: Severe shock and its effects help please > > > Well said, > Then on what basis is TCM TCM? Does the fact that similar subjects are > studied in China's CM colleges make it TCM? > > As I recall from my undergraduate TCM days, the course started in > Chinese > medical philosophy 1 = tao; 2=yin and yang etc all the way up to 12. > Then > in 2nd year we did this thing were Zang Fu became the holy grail. > > Then we did this thing about point function which contained a mish > mash of > old stuff, ie he sea pts, cleft pts and modern day indications for > points to > treat Zang Fu syndromes. A few other theories were thrown in, SHL cold > penetration, the warm disease theory etc. > > Third year they let is in to treat the public for a few dollars as we > did > more WM DD, CM DD, the odd business subject and more nutrition. Today > the > same course has more WM and more herbs. > > I finally went back to school and upgraded to a degree which included a > subect on History of Ideas which gave me an historical perspective of > where > the theories came from in time and social/economic/disease perspective. > This was probably the biggest connection that was made to CM. To see > the > Warm disease school come out of the epidemics of the 1700's and 1800's > (excuse my preciseness I am not historian), what 1500 to 1600 years > after > the theory of cold penetration of SHL, was to start to grasp this > living > thing called CM. To see that there were advocates of the SP/ST school > v's > Yin or the Yang predominates schools, or time based acupuncture schools > starts to give multiple dimensions to this thing called CM. School > meaning > a style or philosophical approach to ill health. There were many > different > schools within and over the centuries lasting perhaps only the life > time of > the founding practitioner. > > Since 2001, I have completed 120 hrs on Manaka and approximately 120 > hrs > training on Toyohari styles. Both of which give the sources to their > work > back to the classics and in the case of Manaka also to more modern > texts and > schools ie wrist ankle acup, CM point formula, Korean hand AP, Ear AP > (Chinese, French and Olsen). > > So in another 5 years will the TCM undergraduate curriculum still be > the > same as today? I think two things need to happen: > 1. Practitioners need to know where their style is coming from > 2. The principles of many styles. > > Best wishes > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2004 Report Share Posted December 26, 2004 Hi Doug, Well done for at least broadcasting a few more seeds from the varied tree and fruit called CM OM TCM! Point selection I think can be vary confusing, well it was for me, and I am still learning! For instance if I have a Sp transportation/transformation problem, do I tonify, harmonise or drain Sp 9? I never did get a good answer to this question in college, just a glazed look from the teacher, and a comment years later that she trembled in fear with my questions. A sorry state of affairs since I believe it is a student's job to ask questions and an area of study should lend itself to scrutiny. In Manaka style one just treats the point there is no tonifying or draining etc. One is correcting the misshapen octahedral using extra vessels, 5 phases, polar pairs etc (that is the basic relationships as described in the Nan Jing). In Toyohari one does tonify drain etc. However, what has brought me the greatest clarity of point selection is to test a point to see if the abdomen, gastroc's, pulse, symptom/s changes before needling and or during needling. If the 'thing' being used to make the diagnosis doesn't change the answer is simple; 1. Either the point location is wrong 2. The diagnosis is wrong. 3. Treatment technique is wrong. Answer, do not proceed further in the treatment until these are sorted out. Testing can be done with a thumb or forefinger, with a magnet with a teishin etc. However, previously to the meridian styles, I was never quite sure at the time of treatment if I used best point or technique for the diagnosis. These days, it is easy to know that a person will improve before they leave the clinic because the diagnostic assessment has to change. Best wishes Douglas [res19zl9] Sunday, 26 December 2004 4:28 AM Chinese Medicine TCM traditions > Sharon, I'm glad you brought this up. I taught a class called Clinical Point Selection which was basically a history and discussion of the different traditions more than yet another list of points corresponding to conditions. I got some flak for my approach by the school and confusion by (some) students about what I was doing. Now the class is taught by a top-notch Beijing doctor and I don't disagree with the school's decision to use her but I am grateful I was able to get some of these concepts out there. doug > Message: 6 > Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:09:33 +1000 > <> > RE: Severe shock and its effects help please > > > Well said, > Then on what basis is TCM TCM? Does the fact that similar subjects are > studied in China's CM colleges make it TCM? > > As I recall from my undergraduate TCM days, the course started in > Chinese > medical philosophy 1 = tao; 2=yin and yang etc all the way up to 12. > Then > in 2nd year we did this thing were Zang Fu became the holy grail. > > Then we did this thing about point function which contained a mish > mash of > old stuff, ie he sea pts, cleft pts and modern day indications for > points to > treat Zang Fu syndromes. A few other theories were thrown in, SHL cold > penetration, the warm disease theory etc. > > Third year they let is in to treat the public for a few dollars as we > did > more WM DD, CM DD, the odd business subject and more nutrition. Today > the > same course has more WM and more herbs. > > I finally went back to school and upgraded to a degree which included a > subect on History of Ideas which gave me an historical perspective of > where > the theories came from in time and social/economic/disease perspective. > This was probably the biggest connection that was made to CM. To see > the > Warm disease school come out of the epidemics of the 1700's and 1800's > (excuse my preciseness I am not historian), what 1500 to 1600 years > after > the theory of cold penetration of SHL, was to start to grasp this > living > thing called CM. To see that there were advocates of the SP/ST school > v's > Yin or the Yang predominates schools, or time based acupuncture schools > starts to give multiple dimensions to this thing called CM. School > meaning > a style or philosophical approach to ill health. There were many > different > schools within and over the centuries lasting perhaps only the life > time of > the founding practitioner. > > Since 2001, I have completed 120 hrs on Manaka and approximately 120 > hrs > training on Toyohari styles. Both of which give the sources to their > work > back to the classics and in the case of Manaka also to more modern > texts and > schools ie wrist ankle acup, CM point formula, Korean hand AP, Ear AP > (Chinese, French and Olsen). > > So in another 5 years will the TCM undergraduate curriculum still be > the > same as today? I think two things need to happen: > 1. Practitioners need to know where their style is coming from > 2. The principles of many styles. > > Best wishes > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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