Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Hi All, & Sean, [Re: http://tinyurl.com/4r3ko ], Sean Walsh wrote: > Hi Phil, Interesting read - and certainly interesting about Kampo > medicine and GP practice. Equally interesting is the recognition > that the practice of AP (moxa/massage inclusive) requires > specialist training and thus is practice by acupuncturists rather > than GP's/MD's. If only this would be recognised by those members > of the broader medical profession who dabble within the area, > disregarding concerns about potential risk to public health and > safety by undertaking short courses, rather than being > appropriately trained. Food for thought. Take care. Sean; Dr Sean > Walsh, PhD Lecturer College of TCM Department of Health Sciences > University of Technology, Sydney Sean, the article said: " Electro-AP and moxibustion are practiced by acupuncturists and specialists in moxibustion rather than by doctors, because they need special training, unlike prescribing Kampo medicine. In Japan, after 3 years of education at a professional school of AP, moxibustion, acupressure or massage, one can obtain a license to practice after passing the national examination. However, medical doctors are permitted to perform any one of the above treatments even if they do not attend one of these schools. However, not many medical doctors would actually be trained in the practice of these modalities. They are usually left to specialists. " I am gob-smacked by the claim that Japanese GPs are allowed to use KAMPO. I cannot understand how practitioners can be discouraged from using AP without suitable training, BUT (apparently) can use herbal medicine without even more detailed specialist training!! As a long-term student of both AP and CHM, I find the herbal medicine (and especially the need for a good TCM Syndrome Dx) FAR more difficult to learn. I also believe that one can do serious damage if one uses herbal formulas incorrectly. IMO, one is less likely to induce iatrogenic disease with an incorrect choice of acupoints than with an incorrect choice of herbal formula. For example, one may cause bleeding in a subject on warfarin-type WMs if one uses a CHM/Kampo formula with anticoagulant action. I doubt if that would happen with an incorrect AP prescription. What do other colleagues think? Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Hi All, See: Complementary and Alternative Medicine: a Japanese Perspective, by Nobutaka Suzuki: http://tinyurl.com/4r3ko I stumbled onto this today. It was an eye-opener for me, especially to see the high % of Japanese MDs who practice CAM, especially Kampo medicine. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 I went back and looked up this link from Phil. It is an article by a Japanese physician who appears to be very enthusistic about complementary medicine. It does contain this line, which i found interesting: " Acupuncture, electroacupuncture and moxibustion are practiced by acupuncturists and specialists in moxibustion rather than by doctors, because they need special training, unlike prescribing Kampo medicine. " What this comment suggests to me is that even though the majority of Kampo praxis in Japan is based in SHL, it is common among physicians to prescribe formulas by symptom differentiation of biomedical disease entity rather than six-stage or other pattern diagnosis. rh Chinese Medicine , " " <@e...> wrote: > Hi All, > > See: Complementary and Alternative Medicine: a Japanese Perspective, by > Nobutaka Suzuki: http://tinyurl.com/4r3ko > > I stumbled onto this today. It was an eye-opener for me, especially to see the > high % of Japanese MDs who practice CAM, especially Kampo medicine. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Robert, Is the term Kampo in the west, also like the term Japanese acupuncture in the west? As you know in Japan there is no such thing as Japanese acupuncture as I have been told. There is a pluralistic system of many styles and of these what we in the west call Japanese is actually Meridian based, and there also many practitioner styles that would fall under Meridian. So would Kampo mean different things to different people? Best wishes kampo36 [kampo36] Sunday, 2 January 2005 1:36 AM Chinese Medicine Re: CAM Use in Japan: An eye-opener? I went back and looked up this link from Phil. It is an article by a Japanese physician who appears to be very enthusistic about complementary medicine. It does contain this line, which i found interesting: " Acupuncture, electroacupuncture and moxibustion are practiced by acupuncturists and specialists in moxibustion rather than by doctors, because they need special training, unlike prescribing Kampo medicine. " What this comment suggests to me is that even though the majority of Kampo praxis in Japan is based in SHL, it is common among physicians to prescribe formulas by symptom differentiation of biomedical disease entity rather than six-stage or other pattern diagnosis. rh Chinese Medicine , " " <@e...> wrote: > Hi All, > > See: Complementary and Alternative Medicine: a Japanese Perspective, by > Nobutaka Suzuki: http://tinyurl.com/4r3ko > > I stumbled onto this today. It was an eye-opener for me, especially to see the > high % of Japanese MDs who practice CAM, especially Kampo medicine. > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Please support the running of this group. Make a donation by clicking here, http://tinyurl.com/4xm7g ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Hi Sharon, Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Robert, > Is the term Kampo in the west, also like the term Japanese acupuncture in > the west? > > As you know in Japan there is no such thing as Japanese acupuncture as I > have been told. There is a pluralistic system of many styles and of these > what we in the west call Japanese is actually Meridian based, and there also > many practitioner styles that would fall under Meridian. > > So would Kampo mean different things to different people? > Best wishes > > No, I think the stylistic breadth of Kampo is much more limited than that of acumoxa therapy in Japan. There are two major streams of Kampo, Koho-ha and Gosei-ha, based more or less on SHL/JGYL and Song-Jin-Yuan medicine respectively. Koho-ha is by far the most common, at least as a theoretical structure. There is a third stream which historically set out to unite the two others, called Setchu-ha or the Syncretic school. Then much more recently there are the powerful influences of biomedicine and TCM. Shibata Yoshiharu, in his book on Kampo for Climacteric Disorders, posits that most modern day Kampo practitioners really are to some degree or other syncretists no matter what theoretical school they follow. rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Thanks Robert Best wishes kampo36 [kampo36] Sunday, 2 January 2005 1:33 PM Chinese Medicine Re: CAM Use in Japan: An eye-opener? Hi Sharon, Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Robert, > Is the term Kampo in the west, also like the term Japanese acupuncture in > the west? > > As you know in Japan there is no such thing as Japanese acupuncture as I > have been told. There is a pluralistic system of many styles and of these > what we in the west call Japanese is actually Meridian based, and there also > many practitioner styles that would fall under Meridian. > > So would Kampo mean different things to different people? > Best wishes > > No, I think the stylistic breadth of Kampo is much more limited than that of acumoxa therapy in Japan. There are two major streams of Kampo, Koho-ha and Gosei-ha, based more or less on SHL/JGYL and Song-Jin-Yuan medicine respectively. Koho-ha is by far the most common, at least as a theoretical structure. There is a third stream which historically set out to unite the two others, called Setchu-ha or the Syncretic school. Then much more recently there are the powerful influences of biomedicine and TCM. Shibata Yoshiharu, in his book on Kampo for Climacteric Disorders, posits that most modern day Kampo practitioners really are to some degree or other syncretists no matter what theoretical school they follow. rh http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Please support the running of this group. Make a donation by clicking here, http://tinyurl.com/4xm7g ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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