Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 There are NO scare tactics. These are the FACTS. You can imagine that they don't exist but that won't negate their TRUTH. Have a nice day. In a message dated 12/03/04 10:37:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, Doc writes: --- acudoc11 wrote: >The AMAs-CPT codes for acupuncture contain absolutely zero educational requirements for use which means any bum off the street can use'em and get paid.< Richard, This is just silly. The codes do not have requirements THEY ARE CODES The codes are intended to simply describe a proceedure and set a basis for comparison hence the name -Current Procedural Terminology or CPT. Educational and other requirements are contained in state laws and the requirements of individual insurance companies Scare tactics like the ones you use are desperate acts of people who have little faith in their own message or the intelligence of their audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 --- acudoc11 wrote: >The AMAs-CPT codes for acupuncture contain absolutely zero educational requirements for use which means any bum off the street can use'em and get paid.< Richard, This is just silly. The codes do not have requirements THEY ARE CODES The codes are intended to simply describe a proceedure and set a basis for comparison hence the name -Current Procedural Terminology or CPT. Educational and other requirements are contained in state laws and the requirements of individual insurance companies Scare tactics like the ones you use are desperate acts of people who have little faith in their own message or the intelligence of their audience. Doc Rosen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I'm also very concerned about the questions below and the values that acudoc had written in about earlier. The RVU is $37.00 and at .6, that means a 15-minute unit would get 22.20 and the second 15-minute unit would get (at ..55 RVU) 20.35 which if paid at 100% (not often likely) that would give us the grand total of $42.55. That's about a 39% drop in income from what many of us get for a typical treatment and is, quite frankly, an insult and disgrace if that's what comes to pass. I HOPE these numbers are wrong. I am wondering WHAT the acupuncturists on this panel to come up with this system could possibly have been thinking????? And to answer Laura's question about how many patients we see on a typical day.. I see between 8 (on a fairly slow day) and 13 (on a full day). I work 3.5 days per week and average around 30-35 patients in that week. I think that's fairly typical, but am not sure. There are the extremes either way, I suppose. _____ acudoc11 [acudoc11] Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:02 PM Chinese Medicine Correct coding analysis The AMAs-CPT codes for acupuncture contain absolutely zero educational requirements for use which means any bum off the street can use'em and get paid. Now lets get to the nitty gritty. AMA/CPT has a Relative Value Unit of 0.60 for the first 15 minutes of face-to-face acupuncture which is THE most rediculous restriction possible. Be that as it may.....the Medicare cost factor in the RBRVS system is currently at $37 per RVU therefore the result equals $22.20. Thats assuming one gets reimbursed at 100% which is rare. Now let us compare to the ABC Code system which some naysayers either laugh at or are afraid that others laugh at them. The acupuncture codes do not require face to face AND IS restricted for ONLY those properly educated on a state by state basis. The ABC Code.... RVU is 1.2 which when you multiply it results in $44.40. Now for the future.....when the ABC Codes get approved by the US Government under HCPCS and they further follow through by striking down duplicate codes in various systems....guess which ones will be GONE forever? There is an old cliche.....'he who laughs last - laughs best'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hi Barb, I work 5 days a week---but 3.5 sounds devine! I cannot possibly imagine seeing 20 patients a day. Many of the people I see get front and back treatments, moxa, perhaps cupping, and maybe even some electro (not to mention an herbal formula, but that's another story). How does one treat 20 patients a day in a thorough manner??? I assume they must be getting good results or they would not continue to have that much business. I'm also curious where in the world they have found to practice where there is that much business available. I know its out there, but it certainly isn't the standard from what I understand, so it is discouraging to imagine that the committee had that in mind as the standard. Laura Chinese Medicine , " Barb " <bbeale@e...> wrote: > > I'm also very concerned about the questions below and the values that acudoc > had written in about earlier. The RVU is $37.00 and at .6, that means a > 15-minute unit would get 22.20 and the second 15-minute unit would get (at > .55 RVU) 20.35 which if paid at 100% (not often likely) that would give us > the grand total of $42.55. That's about a 39% drop in income from what > many of us get for a typical treatment and is, quite frankly, an insult and > disgrace if that's what comes to pass. I HOPE these numbers are wrong. I > am wondering WHAT the acupuncturists on this panel to come up with this > system could possibly have been thinking????? > > > > And to answer Laura's question about how many patients we see on a typical > day.. I see between 8 (on a fairly slow day) and 13 (on a full day). I > work 3.5 days per week and average around 30-35 patients in that week. I > think that's fairly typical, but am not sure. There are the extremes either > way, I suppose. > > > > _____ > > acudoc11@a... [acudoc11@a...] > Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:02 PM > Chinese Medicine > Correct coding analysis > > > > > The AMAs-CPT codes for acupuncture contain absolutely zero educational > requirements for use which means any bum off the street can use'em and get > paid. > > Now lets get to the nitty gritty. > > AMA/CPT has a Relative Value Unit of 0.60 for the first 15 minutes of > face-to-face acupuncture which is THE most rediculous restriction possible. > Be that > as it may.....the Medicare cost factor in the RBRVS system is currently at > $37 > per RVU therefore the result equals $22.20. Thats assuming one gets > reimbursed > at 100% which is rare. > > Now let us compare to the ABC Code system which some naysayers either laugh > at or are afraid that others laugh at them. The acupuncture codes do not > require face to face AND IS restricted for ONLY those properly educated on a > state > by state basis. The ABC Code.... RVU is 1.2 which when you multiply it > results > in $44.40. > > Now for the future.....when the ABC Codes get approved by the US Government > under HCPCS and they further follow through by striking down duplicate codes > in > various systems....guess which ones will be GONE forever? > > There is an old cliche.....'he who laughs last - laughs best'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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