Guest guest Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Hi All, I agree with just about everything I've read on this topic here. But I'll add my 2 cents. I think the one thing that will push the profession forward faster than we may even be ready for is Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement. Once that happens hospitals and clinics will be highering us everywhere so they can make money off us. WE WILL BE IN DEMAND. I don't know how that is going to happen though, especially in this current climate of Republican dictatorship. I'd really like to get more involved in strategizing how to make that happen actually. I think that the difficult financial reality of our profession hurts our profession in a number of ways, including: 1. we have no choice but to work for ourselves right out of college rather than working under someone (like at a hospital), therefore many of us new-comers probably aren't as skilled as we eventually will be. Consequently more people get poor results with acupuncture, and 2. We are desperate for patients to keep coming back, and that desperation may motivate some to be less than noble in how they practice. I continued to work as a social worker while in school and then during the first 8 months after I opened my clinic. I definitely think that if you have work that you can do part-time and make a decent living at and TCM is a passion for you, you probably will not regret studying TCM. I absolutely love what I'm doing, and that is more than worth being poor to me (although I do hope that I don't remain poor). I want to know how these people making $300,000 a year are doing it. Anyone on this board in that category, and if so, do you have any advice for us? Laura Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > Hi, > > I agree with you here. Many students are airy-fairy, head in the sky and > don't see the practical side to doing the business modules in their course. > Actually, these business modules are very very useful. As there are no jobs > in TCM, most graduates are forced to open their own clinics. A good > understanding of business management, marketing and accountancy are > absolutely essential otherwise your doomed to fail. > > Attilio > > My education included the same 45 hour class and it wasn't very thorough. > What was interesting, though, is that many of the people in the class took > it very lightly, almost as if it were a joke. I wanted about 3 more > classes, including one on insurance billing, accounting and marketing. > Anyway, I took the one class very seriously and created a business plan that > I put to use to the letter with good results. > > It's been my observation (and I'll probably get " flamed " for saying this) > that many people drawn to acupuncture school are " artsy " , free-spirited and > a little rebellious and don't like to be bothered by the more structured > portions of the profession, especially the concepts of money, marketing and > competition. I think this dimension has played a part in the downfall of > many. On the other hand, I have seen many chiropractic students primarily > in it for the money and go into it not as healers but as a business venture. > I'm sure many of you out there have experienced the chiropractor who fits > this description, and it is unfortunate. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 The one person I know making 300K per year (or more, actually) is in L.A. and is running 11 rooms. She has 3 assistants, a full-time billing person and 2 receptionists. The deceiving factor to consider, however, is that after taxes and overhead, she's taking home about 85K. Considering the amount of work she does, the numbers of people she has to keep up, how little " real " contact she gets with patients, etc., I'd rather have my 35 patients per week, 3.5 days of work per week, no employees (read; NO HEADACHE), low overhead and come out about the same as her anyway. So, I hope few are in a rush to starry-eyed envy over the 300K option. And as for Medicare, I want NOTHING to do with it. What a friggin' nightmare. They restrict your practice, delay payment, pay little for services and deny payment whenever they feel. I work with a chiropractor who would give her eye-teeth to have never heard of Medicare. I'm sure others would disagree. The obvious benefit for it, though, is that lots of people could get helped by acupuncture if Medicare were to allow us on board, but we would suffer personally and professionally in my opinion. From a practitioner standpoint, you can see 50 patients per week on Medicare and make $30 per treatment, or 25 patients per week and make $60 per treatment. We'd be jumping into the same frying pan the MDs did and end up in their same inenviable spot with someone else running the shots and running us ragged. _____ heylaurag [heylaurag] Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:35 PM Chinese Medicine Re: New to the group/Money, Money... Hi All, I agree with just about everything I've read on this topic here. But I'll add my 2 cents. I think the one thing that will push the profession forward faster than we may even be ready for is Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement. Once that happens hospitals and clinics will be highering us everywhere so they can make money off us. WE WILL BE IN DEMAND. I don't know how that is going to happen though, especially in this current climate of Republican dictatorship. I'd really like to get more involved in strategizing how to make that happen actually. I think that the difficult financial reality of our profession hurts our profession in a number of ways, including: 1. we have no choice but to work for ourselves right out of college rather than working under someone (like at a hospital), therefore many of us new-comers probably aren't as skilled as we eventually will be. Consequently more people get poor results with acupuncture, and 2. We are desperate for patients to keep coming back, and that desperation may motivate some to be less than noble in how they practice. I continued to work as a social worker while in school and then during the first 8 months after I opened my clinic. I definitely think that if you have work that you can do part-time and make a decent living at and TCM is a passion for you, you probably will not regret studying TCM. I absolutely love what I'm doing, and that is more than worth being poor to me (although I do hope that I don't remain poor). I want to know how these people making $300,000 a year are doing it. Anyone on this board in that category, and if so, do you have any advice for us? Laura Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > Hi, > > I agree with you here. Many students are airy-fairy, head in the sky and > don't see the practical side to doing the business modules in their course. > Actually, these business modules are very very useful. As there are no jobs > in TCM, most graduates are forced to open their own clinics. A good > understanding of business management, marketing and accountancy are > absolutely essential otherwise your doomed to fail. > > Attilio > > My education included the same 45 hour class and it wasn't very thorough. > What was interesting, though, is that many of the people in the class took > it very lightly, almost as if it were a joke. I wanted about 3 more > classes, including one on insurance billing, accounting and marketing. > Anyway, I took the one class very seriously and created a business plan that > I put to use to the letter with good results. > > It's been my observation (and I'll probably get " flamed " for saying this) > that many people drawn to acupuncture school are " artsy " , free-spirited and > a little rebellious and don't like to be bothered by the more structured > portions of the profession, especially the concepts of money, marketing and > competition. I think this dimension has played a part in the downfall of > many. On the other hand, I have seen many chiropractic students primarily > in it for the money and go into it not as healers but as a business venture. > I'm sure many of you out there have experienced the chiropractor who fits > this description, and it is unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hi Barb, I agree with your opinion about Medicare (it very easily will create the same headaches for us that doctors have), but at the same time it would open up many doors for us---opportunities to work at hospitals, for instance. If working at a hospital is an option, we don't have to immediately jump into a private practice right out of school, and if you want the security of a job with a regular paycheck its there. Also, generally there is the option to work per diem at several hospitals to supplement your income at your private practice. And, you don't have to take medicare patients if you don't want to. Laura Chinese Medicine , " Barb " <bbeale@e...> wrote: > > The one person I know making 300K per year (or more, actually) is in L.A. > and is running 11 rooms. She has 3 assistants, a full-time billing person > and 2 receptionists. The deceiving factor to consider, however, is that > after taxes and overhead, she's taking home about 85K. Considering the > amount of work she does, the numbers of people she has to keep up, how > little " real " contact she gets with patients, etc., I'd rather have my 35 > patients per week, 3.5 days of work per week, no employees (read; NO > HEADACHE), low overhead and come out about the same as her anyway. So, I > hope few are in a rush to starry-eyed envy over the 300K option. > > > > And as for Medicare, I want NOTHING to do with it. What a friggin' > nightmare. They restrict your practice, delay payment, pay little for > services and deny payment whenever they feel. I work with a chiropractor > who would give her eye-teeth to have never heard of Medicare. I'm sure > others would disagree. The obvious benefit for it, though, is that lots of > people could get helped by acupuncture if Medicare were to allow us on > board, but we would suffer personally and professionally in my opinion. > From a practitioner standpoint, you can see 50 patients per week on Medicare > and make $30 per treatment, or 25 patients per week and make $60 per > treatment. We'd be jumping into the same frying pan the MDs did and end up > in their same inenviable spot with someone else running the shots and > running us ragged. > > > > _____ > > heylaurag [heylaurag@h...] > Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:35 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: New to the group/Money, Money... > > > > > > Hi All, > > I agree with just about everything I've read on this topic here. But > I'll add my 2 cents. > > I think the one thing that will push the profession forward faster > than we may even be ready for is Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement. > Once that happens hospitals and clinics will be highering us > everywhere so they can make money off us. WE WILL BE IN DEMAND. I > don't know how that is going to happen though, especially in this > current climate of Republican dictatorship. I'd really like to get > more involved in strategizing how to make that happen actually. > > I think that the difficult financial reality of our profession hurts > our profession in a number of ways, including: 1. we have no choice > but to work for ourselves right out of college rather than working > under someone (like at a hospital), therefore many of us new-comers > probably aren't as skilled as we eventually will be. Consequently more > people get poor results with acupuncture, and 2. We are desperate for > patients to keep coming back, and that desperation may motivate some > to be less than noble in how they practice. > > I continued to work as a social worker while in school and then during > the first 8 months after I opened my clinic. I definitely think that > if you have work that you can do part-time and make a decent living at > and TCM is a passion for you, you probably will not regret studying > TCM. I absolutely love what I'm doing, and that is more than worth > being poor to me (although I do hope that I don't remain poor). > > I want to know how these people making $300,000 a year are doing it. > Anyone on this board in that category, and if so, do you have any > advice for us? > > Laura Chinese Medicine , " Attilio > D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I agree with you here. Many students are airy-fairy, head in the sky and > > don't see the practical side to doing the business modules in their > course. > > Actually, these business modules are very very useful. As there are > no jobs > > in TCM, most graduates are forced to open their own clinics. A good > > understanding of business management, marketing and accountancy are > > absolutely essential otherwise your doomed to fail. > > > > Attilio > > > > My education included the same 45 hour class and it wasn't very > thorough. > > What was interesting, though, is that many of the people in the > class took > > it very lightly, almost as if it were a joke. I wanted about 3 more > > classes, including one on insurance billing, accounting and marketing. > > Anyway, I took the one class very seriously and created a business > plan that > > I put to use to the letter with good results. > > > > It's been my observation (and I'll probably get " flamed " for saying > this) > > that many people drawn to acupuncture school are " artsy " , > free-spirited and > > a little rebellious and don't like to be bothered by the more structured > > portions of the profession, especially the concepts of money, > marketing and > > competition. I think this dimension has played a part in the > downfall of > > many. On the other hand, I have seen many chiropractic students > primarily > > in it for the money and go into it not as healers but as a business > venture. > > I'm sure many of you out there have experienced the chiropractor who > fits > > this description, and it is unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Barb wrote: <snip> > > And as for Medicare, I want NOTHING to do with it. What a friggin' Hi Barb! You are missing the point on Medicare. Once TCM is approved for Medicare the hold-out insurance companies will cover TCM, this is the real goal. You don't *have* to take Medicare even if it is approved. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Yes, and the other major point is that it will give us the option to work at hospitals. I do see potential downsides though....but all in all I am for it. Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen <petet@a...> wrote: > > Barb wrote: > <snip> > > > > And as for Medicare, I want NOTHING to do with it. What a friggin' > > Hi Barb! > > You are missing the point on Medicare. Once TCM is approved for Medicare > the hold-out insurance companies will cover TCM, this is the real goal. > You don't *have* to take Medicare even if it is approved. > > Regards, > > Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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