New to the group and a potential TCM student:

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone! I would just like to give a brief introduction of

myself as well as ask a few questions about TCM:

 

My name is Jeremy and I am a 25-year-old living in Austin, Texas and

working for the local government as a Geographic Information Systems

Technician. GIS is basically " computer cartography " . While I do

like this field, I have lately begun to want something different...

 

I had looked around at different professions that involve helping

other people as this is the type of career I would like to have.

Nursing, Massage Therapy, Dietetics, Personal Training are all fields

that I had been considering.

 

Well, a few weeks ago I was in a local Asian gift and herbal supplies

store (I am highly fascinated with Asian culture) and noticed that

they had a small acupuncture clinic there. I had never considered

such a profession before, although acupuncture had always interested

me. I later went online to figure out what kind of training the

practitioners had to go through, and that's when I discovered that we

had two colleges of Traditional right here in

Austin! I honestly can't explain the excitement I felt when I first

made this discovery! I had no clue that these colleges (or this

profession) existed until that point, yet it was something that would

let me combine my desire to help heal other people with my love for

Asian culture. I then decided that I had to learn everything I could

about this wonderful profession. There are many things that excite

me, many things that concern me, and many other things that I'm

unsure of. I guess I will just list everything out to make it easier

to read:

 

- The college I want to attend: http://www.aoma.edu

 

- Cost of the full program: $40,000 (which will all have to be

student loans)

 

- I work full-time and do not have the option of quitting work, so I

will have to be a part-time student and finish a few years later

 

- I am having a hard time finding information as far as what kind of

income can be earned in this profession. I know that it varies but

I've been told that the earnings posted here are way above average

and completely unrealistic:

http://acufinder.com/schools/faq_answers.asp#2a

 

So, I guess what I have to do now is decide whether or not it is

worth going into and if I can make it as a practitioner of TCM. I

have heard many stories from other practitioners about how difficult

it is to make any money and a lot of it really worried me. I

definitely don't want to go to school for 5+ years and go $40K into

debt for something that is not going to pay the bills.

 

If anyone has any advice, I would appreciate it tremendously! Also,

I apologize for the length of this post... I just wanted to make sure

I included everything.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeremy -

 

You don't mention whether or not you have ever experienced TCM; if not, I would

recommend that you first learn more about it from the point of view of a

patient. I can give you a biased opinion about AOMA - as a recent graduate, I

feel that the level of instruction and clinical supervision there was terrific.

They also offer a 'Study in China' program in Chengdu that was most informative.

Best course of action would probably be to go to the student clinic (as a

patient, perhaps) and get feedback from them about the program, TCM in general,

etc. TCM students are more than happy to share their knowledge and experiences.

 

As far as taking your time to complete the program is concerned, I think that's

a great idea. Of necessity, I finished in under four years. Looking back, I

feel it would have been great if I could have loaded my clinic hours more to the

end; finishing the didactic instruction and then having 12 - 15 months of clinic

only would be good.

 

Starting a practice is challenging, and income can take time to build - but if

this is your passion, then it's more than worth it. So, check it out. You'll

know if this is your path or not. Good luck -

 

Kim

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jeremy <jeremy_read20 wrote:

 

 

Hello everyone! I would just like to give a brief introduction of

myself as well as ask a few questions about TCM:

 

My name is Jeremy and I am a 25-year-old living in Austin, Texas and

working for the local government as a Geographic Information Systems

Technician. GIS is basically " computer cartography " . While I do

like this field, I have lately begun to want something different...

 

I had looked around at different professions that involve helping

other people as this is the type of career I would like to have.

Nursing, Massage Therapy, Dietetics, Personal Training are all fields

that I had been considering.

 

Well, a few weeks ago I was in a local Asian gift and herbal supplies

store (I am highly fascinated with Asian culture) and noticed that

they had a small acupuncture clinic there. I had never considered

such a profession before, although acupuncture had always interested

me. I later went online to figure out what kind of training the

practitioners had to go through, and that's when I discovered that we

had two colleges of Traditional right here in

Austin! I honestly can't explain the excitement I felt when I first

made this discovery! I had no clue that these colleges (or this

profession) existed until that point, yet it was something that would

let me combine my desire to help heal other people with my love for

Asian culture. I then decided that I had to learn everything I could

about this wonderful profession. There are many things that excite

me, many things that concern me, and many other things that I'm

unsure of. I guess I will just list everything out to make it easier

to read:

 

- The college I want to attend: http://www.aoma.edu

 

- Cost of the full program: $40,000 (which will all have to be

student loans)

 

- I work full-time and do not have the option of quitting work, so I

will have to be a part-time student and finish a few years later

 

- I am having a hard time finding information as far as what kind of

income can be earned in this profession. I know that it varies but

I've been told that the earnings posted here are way above average

and completely unrealistic:

http://acufinder.com/schools/faq_answers.asp#2a

 

So, I guess what I have to do now is decide whether or not it is

worth going into and if I can make it as a practitioner of TCM. I

have heard many stories from other practitioners about how difficult

it is to make any money and a lot of it really worried me. I

definitely don't want to go to school for 5+ years and go $40K into

debt for something that is not going to pay the bills.

 

If anyone has any advice, I would appreciate it tremendously! Also,

I apologize for the length of this post... I just wanted to make sure

I included everything.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Jeremy,

 

I got into acupuncture after doing computer work for 12 years. I felt a

strong drive and passion to do it and I am so very glad I did it even

though it has really set me back financially. As far as making money,

to be honest I would probably have been better off staying in the

computer world. But there is more to life than being in a job you hate

even if it makes lots of money.

 

Making $45K in your first year out of school is certainly possible but

keep in mind that you will have expenses on top of that to run your

practice so you could probably count on netting half of that. Netting

50K - 80K after several years in practice is certainly possible but you

will have to make that happen as it will be entirely up to you and your

ability to market yourself and get results with patients.

 

Acupuncture is actually fairly demanding work. It looks exotic and

romantic, but it takes a lot of energy to see patients everyday and be

strong enough energetically to help them. I found that it has forced a

lot of my own personal growth. Facing my own demons and working through

my own issues. This takes a lot of energy and courage to really do

that. I find that patients can really tell if I am anything but

grounded and honest.

 

Learn all you can about TCM before you commit to a course of study. Be

a patient, talk to students as well as practicing acupuncturists in your

area. Read some books on the subject. The best introduction to TCM out

there I think is " The Web that has no Weaver " by Ted Kaptchuk. If you

feel that fire in your belly to do this kind of work after getting a

realistic understanding of what it entails then you will know that it is

for you.

 

Best of luck!

Chris

 

 

 

Jeremy [jeremy_read20]

Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:06 PM

Chinese Medicine

New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

 

 

 

 

Hello everyone! I would just like to give a brief introduction of

myself as well as ask a few questions about TCM:

 

My name is Jeremy and I am a 25-year-old living in Austin, Texas and

working for the local government as a Geographic Information Systems

Technician. GIS is basically " computer cartography " . While I do

like this field, I have lately begun to want something different...

 

I had looked around at different professions that involve helping

other people as this is the type of career I would like to have.

Nursing, Massage Therapy, Dietetics, Personal Training are all fields

that I had been considering.

 

Well, a few weeks ago I was in a local Asian gift and herbal supplies

store (I am highly fascinated with Asian culture) and noticed that

they had a small acupuncture clinic there. I had never considered

such a profession before, although acupuncture had always interested

me. I later went online to figure out what kind of training the

practitioners had to go through, and that's when I discovered that we

had two colleges of Traditional right here in

Austin! I honestly can't explain the excitement I felt when I first

made this discovery! I had no clue that these colleges (or this

profession) existed until that point, yet it was something that would

let me combine my desire to help heal other people with my love for

Asian culture. I then decided that I had to learn everything I could

about this wonderful profession. There are many things that excite

me, many things that concern me, and many other things that I'm

unsure of. I guess I will just list everything out to make it easier

to read:

 

- The college I want to attend: http://www.aoma.edu

 

- Cost of the full program: $40,000 (which will all have to be

student loans)

 

- I work full-time and do not have the option of quitting work, so I

will have to be a part-time student and finish a few years later

 

- I am having a hard time finding information as far as what kind of

income can be earned in this profession. I know that it varies but

I've been told that the earnings posted here are way above average

and completely unrealistic:

http://acufinder.com/schools/faq_answers.asp#2a

 

So, I guess what I have to do now is decide whether or not it is

worth going into and if I can make it as a practitioner of TCM. I

have heard many stories from other practitioners about how difficult

it is to make any money and a lot of it really worried me. I

definitely don't want to go to school for 5+ years and go $40K into

debt for something that is not going to pay the bills.

 

If anyone has any advice, I would appreciate it tremendously! Also,

I apologize for the length of this post... I just wanted to make sure

I included everything.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Guest guest]

Jeremy,

 

I posted a message 10200 which you can read which addresses your

questions.

 

You can help answer your own question by asking yourself what type of

practice do you want, or atleast how many patients per week would you

like to be treating or need to be treating to support your

lifestyle? Then ask yourself if you think you can go out and get

that many patients. Talk to practitioners who are successful and ask

them how they got patients. Do you think you'll be able to go out and

get that many. Personality plays a role here and often governs how

quickly you can get the thing moving. Are you comfortable with

talking to people and interacting with the public? Do you have a

fiery personality?

 

There are three acupuncturists I know of making over 500K a year, one

who apparently broke one mil. Of course, this is not average, but is

possible. But what you do with it depends on what you want to do.

 

But the bottom line is, when the soul's knocking on your door to go

help people, it's a hard thing to ignore.

 

--brian

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to thank the people who have replied so far. Your words

are really helping me see the pros and not focus so much on the cons.

 

I have a meeting tomorrow evening to tour the campus and ask

questions, sit through a class, etc. I'm so excited that I can't

wait for tomorrow to get here!

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " briansbeard "

<brian_s_beard@h...> wrote:

>

>

> Jeremy,

>

> I posted a message 10200 which you can read which addresses your

> questions.

>

> You can help answer your own question by asking yourself what type

of

> practice do you want, or atleast how many patients per week would

you

> like to be treating or need to be treating to support your

> lifestyle? Then ask yourself if you think you can go out and get

> that many patients. Talk to practitioners who are successful and

ask

> them how they got patients. Do you think you'll be able to go out

and

> get that many. Personality plays a role here and often governs how

> quickly you can get the thing moving. Are you comfortable with

> talking to people and interacting with the public? Do you have a

> fiery personality?

>

> There are three acupuncturists I know of making over 500K a year,

one

> who apparently broke one mil. Of course, this is not average, but

is

> possible. But what you do with it depends on what you want to do.

>

> But the bottom line is, when the soul's knocking on your door to

go

> help people, it's a hard thing to ignore.

>

> --brian

[Guest guest]

Jeremy wrote:

> Hello everyone! I would just like to give a brief introduction of

> myself as well as ask a few questions about TCM:

 

Hi Jeremy!

 

The only people I know who are doing even OK financially in TCM are

people who had a *lot* of money going in. You are not in that situation

so I want to say you should expect to be downright poor for a *long*

time after you graduate. Poor as in poverty stricken, even. " Ill housed,

ill clothed, ill fed . . . "

 

I started my own clinic two years ago. I have three patients in the slow

season and maybe ten in the tourist season. The stumbling block is

Medicare not covering it. Because they don't, over half of the insurers

don't either. It has been proposed for ten years that it be covered but

it has not happened.

 

If you *love* TCM and don't mind working hard for nothing, have at it.

That is how most of us are, except those who started out rich, or have

rich spouses, lovers, daddies - you know.

 

Oh, yeah. Don't open a clinic in any town that has a TCM school, you

have to compete with the student clinic that charges $25 for the full

service visit. There are two TCM schools in my town.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

HI Jeremy,

Other people on the group have gone into the detail of your question more

than I will now.I just have some questions you need to ask yourself and

maybe the answer will emerge by itself.

Do you want to spend one third of your life doing something that you dislike

or are bored with?

Are you prepared to take BIG financial and emotional risks and BACK yourself

as a winner?

It is my experience that LIFE prods and wants us to take risks to challenge

ourselves.

Self esteem really comes from taking a chance in what you believe,making it

happen for yourself,and achieving something that you KNOW is difficult or

your mind seems unable to grasp.

Asking questions is fine and appropriate but is similar to asking what is

the view going to be like during a marathon,it will look different to

different people, sometimes its plain sailing mostly its hard work AND like

the marathon JUST KEEP GOING once you enter the race,move forward at all

times no matter how slow.YOU will know only by doing, then you will never

die wondering.

Regards Ray Ford

 

----

 

Chinese Medicine

Friday, 19 November 2004 7:56:49 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

 

 

Just wanted to thank the people who have replied so far. Your words

are really helping me see the pros and not focus so much on the cons.

 

I have a meeting tomorrow evening to tour the campus and ask

questions, sit through a class, etc. I'm so excited that I can't

wait for tomorrow to get here!

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " briansbeard "

<brian_s_beard@h...> wrote:

>

>

> Jeremy,

>

> I posted a message 10200 which you can read which addresses your

> questions.

>

> You can help answer your own question by asking yourself what type

of

> practice do you want, or atleast how many patients per week would

you

> like to be treating or need to be treating to support your

> lifestyle? Then ask yourself if you think you can go out and get

> that many patients. Talk to practitioners who are successful and

ask

> them how they got patients. Do you think you'll be able to go out

and

> get that many. Personality plays a role here and often governs how

> quickly you can get the thing moving. Are you comfortable with

> talking to people and interacting with the public? Do you have a

> fiery personality?

>

> There are three acupuncturists I know of making over 500K a year,

one

> who apparently broke one mil. Of course, this is not average, but

is

> possible. But what you do with it depends on what you want to do.

>

> But the bottom line is, when the soul's knocking on your door to

go

> help people, it's a hard thing to ignore.

>

> --brian

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for the replies!

 

It looks like I may have to keep working and maybe do acupuncture on

the side for awhile until I get a good number of patients. Does this

sound like another possibility?

[Guest guest]

Jeremy's post shows a glaring lack of information that is getting harder to

accept as time goes on: we have no reliable data about what acupuncturists/OM

practitioners earn. This is really unacceptable when you consider the number of

acupuncture schools surfacing to handle the influx of new students. If anyone on

this list works with the Council of Colleges, perhaps they can encourage them to

do a proper study. While some schools may struggle financially, others are doing

quite well and the Council of Colleges is one of the most financially flush

acupuncture/OM organizations we have. Potential students like Jeremy should have

better information to go on about a perfectly reasonable question anyone would

ask before making such a life-changing decision. Matt Bauer

 

 

-

Jeremy

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:06 PM

New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

 

 

 

Hello everyone! I would just like to give a brief introduction of

myself as well as ask a few questions about TCM:

 

My name is Jeremy and I am a 25-year-old living in Austin, Texas and

working for the local government as a Geographic Information Systems

Technician. GIS is basically " computer cartography " . While I do

like this field, I have lately begun to want something different...

 

I had looked around at different professions that involve helping

other people as this is the type of career I would like to have.

Nursing, Massage Therapy, Dietetics, Personal Training are all fields

that I had been considering.

 

Well, a few weeks ago I was in a local Asian gift and herbal supplies

store (I am highly fascinated with Asian culture) and noticed that

they had a small acupuncture clinic there. I had never considered

such a profession before, although acupuncture had always interested

me. I later went online to figure out what kind of training the

practitioners had to go through, and that's when I discovered that we

had two colleges of Traditional right here in

Austin! I honestly can't explain the excitement I felt when I first

made this discovery! I had no clue that these colleges (or this

profession) existed until that point, yet it was something that would

let me combine my desire to help heal other people with my love for

Asian culture. I then decided that I had to learn everything I could

about this wonderful profession. There are many things that excite

me, many things that concern me, and many other things that I'm

unsure of. I guess I will just list everything out to make it easier

to read:

 

- The college I want to attend: http://www.aoma.edu

 

- Cost of the full program: $40,000 (which will all have to be

student loans)

 

- I work full-time and do not have the option of quitting work, so I

will have to be a part-time student and finish a few years later

 

- I am having a hard time finding information as far as what kind of

income can be earned in this profession. I know that it varies but

I've been told that the earnings posted here are way above average

and completely unrealistic:

http://acufinder.com/schools/faq_answers.asp#2a

 

So, I guess what I have to do now is decide whether or not it is

worth going into and if I can make it as a practitioner of TCM. I

have heard many stories from other practitioners about how difficult

it is to make any money and a lot of it really worried me. I

definitely don't want to go to school for 5+ years and go $40K into

debt for something that is not going to pay the bills.

 

If anyone has any advice, I would appreciate it tremendously! Also,

I apologize for the length of this post... I just wanted to make sure

I included everything.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jeremy,

 

The more you plan ahead for the change the better. Having a well

thought out transition plan is well worth the effort. If you survive

the first three years odds are you'll stay with it.

 

I agree with matt, it is a problem that there is no reliable

information about salaries or percent of practitioners still

practicing after five yeears. I've asked a number of people what

percentage of graduates go on to have successful practices and I come

up with 25-35% consistently, but no one has any data to back this up

with. Does anyone else have a feeling.

 

WRT money issues, I once heard a chiropractor say, " to get into

chiropractice school you have to be weird. the admissions office will

ask you are you weird? if you say yes then you're allowed in.

Acupuncture school is similar except you have to be weird AND have

issues with money. " All of the AP's burst out laughing. There is

truth there.

 

Chinese Medicine , " Jeremy "

<jeremy_read20> wrote:

>

>

> Thanks again for the replies!

>

> It looks like I may have to keep working and maybe do acupuncture

on

> the side for awhile until I get a good number of patients. Does

this

> sound like another possibility?

[Guest guest]

I remember reading 7 years ago that " 82% of acupuncturists are not

practicing acupuncture as a primary occupation within 5 years of

graduation " . There's a very high failure rate. Personally, I think that

has a lot to do with how good a person is at running a business. I've seen

some very intelligent, compassionate and knowledgeable acupuncturists sink

like a stone because they can't handle marketing, bookkeeping, or lack

people skills.

 

 

 

_____

 

briansbeard [brian_s_beard]

Friday, November 19, 2004 5:02 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

 

 

 

Jeremy,

 

The more you plan ahead for the change the better. Having a well

thought out transition plan is well worth the effort. If you survive

the first three years odds are you'll stay with it.

 

I agree with matt, it is a problem that there is no reliable

information about salaries or percent of practitioners still

practicing after five yeears. I've asked a number of people what

percentage of graduates go on to have successful practices and I come

up with 25-35% consistently, but no one has any data to back this up

with. Does anyone else have a feeling.

 

WRT money issues, I once heard a chiropractor say, " to get into

chiropractice school you have to be weird. the admissions office will

ask you are you weird? if you say yes then you're allowed in.

Acupuncture school is similar except you have to be weird AND have

issues with money. " All of the AP's burst out laughing. There is

truth there.

 

Chinese Medicine , " Jeremy "

<jeremy_read20> wrote:

>

>

> Thanks again for the replies!

>

> It looks like I may have to keep working and maybe do acupuncture

on

> the side for awhile until I get a good number of patients. Does

this

> sound like another possibility?

[Guest guest]

Hi Jeremy

 

My view is that working (at computers) part time

while studying and starting your practice sounds

very wise - if you can *get* P/T work on

computers.

 

All the best,

David Gordon

CMIR, MBRCP(Amma, Tao-Yin),

DCHA, Dip Tuina, Dip Tao-Yin, Postgrad Dip

Chinese

 

 

Jeremy wrote:-

---------------

Message: 18

Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:34:52 -0000

" Jeremy " <jeremy_read20

Re: New to the group and a potential TCM

student:

 

 

 

Thanks again for the replies!

 

It looks like I may have to keep working and

maybe do acupuncture on

the side for awhile until I get a good number of

patients. Does this

sound like another possibility?

 

 

 

 

 

=====

David Gordon

Jun Heng Clinic

[Guest guest]

Matt Bauer wrote:

> Jeremy's post shows a glaring lack of information that is getting

> harder to accept as time goes on: we have no reliable data about what

> acupuncturists/OM practitioners earn. This is really unacceptable

> when you consider the number of acupuncture schools surfacing

Hi Matt!

 

The schools have a vested interest in keeping the truth about AP income

potential at bay. They get their money out front, if people knew how

hard it was to ever recoup your tuition the schools would take a huge hit.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

82% is actually about the failure rate of business startups in general

and not just for acupuncture. I totally agree that those that succeed

with their acupuncture business are savvy business people as well as

compassionate and knowledgeable acupuncturists with good people skills.

 

For all businesses, it is imperative to have a good well researched

business plan, do a lot of research into demographics and pick a good

area to setup and have the financial clout to survive two or more years

with little or no income while the business grows. Why should

acupuncture be any different? It seems that once they get their license

to practice acupuncture, many people assume that people will just start

knocking on their door for a treatment. Building an acupuncture

practice will likely take about as much time and money as their TCM

education and a whole lot more effort. It takes hard work to build any

business.

 

I only had 45 hours out of 3000 hours of TCM training for practice

management. It was an awesome course, but not nearly enough.

Chiropractors spend a whole lot more time with practice management, and

it shows in how much better they are at marketing. In my very biased

opinion, our medicine is superior, but we are not well trained on how to

market and run a business.

 

 

 

 

Barb [bbeale]

Friday, November 19, 2004 6:32 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Re: New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

 

 

I remember reading 7 years ago that " 82% of acupuncturists are not

practicing acupuncture as a primary occupation within 5 years of

graduation " . There's a very high failure rate. Personally, I think

that

has a lot to do with how good a person is at running a business. I've

seen

some very intelligent, compassionate and knowledgeable acupuncturists

sink

like a stone because they can't handle marketing, bookkeeping, or lack

people skills.

 

 

 

_____

 

briansbeard [brian_s_beard]

Friday, November 19, 2004 5:02 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

 

 

 

Jeremy,

 

The more you plan ahead for the change the better. Having a well

thought out transition plan is well worth the effort. If you survive

the first three years odds are you'll stay with it.

 

I agree with matt, it is a problem that there is no reliable

information about salaries or percent of practitioners still

practicing after five yeears. I've asked a number of people what

percentage of graduates go on to have successful practices and I come

up with 25-35% consistently, but no one has any data to back this up

with. Does anyone else have a feeling.

 

WRT money issues, I once heard a chiropractor say, " to get into

chiropractice school you have to be weird. the admissions office will

ask you are you weird? if you say yes then you're allowed in.

Acupuncture school is similar except you have to be weird AND have

issues with money. " All of the AP's burst out laughing. There is

truth there.

 

Chinese Medicine , " Jeremy "

<jeremy_read20> wrote:

>

>

> Thanks again for the replies!

>

> It looks like I may have to keep working and maybe do acupuncture

on

> the side for awhile until I get a good number of patients. Does

this

> sound like another possibility?

[Guest guest]

Amen to that!!! How many brilliant people go to

college for 3,4 maybe up to 10 years, and go kaput

over people skills. John Garbarini

--- Barb <bbeale wrote:

 

>

> I remember reading 7 years ago that " 82% of

> acupuncturists are not

> practicing acupuncture as a primary occupation

> within 5 years of

> graduation " . There's a very high failure rate.

> Personally, I think that

> has a lot to do with how good a person is at running

> a business. I've seen

> some very intelligent, compassionate and

> knowledgeable acupuncturists sink

> like a stone because they can't handle marketing,

> bookkeeping, or lack

> people skills.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> briansbeard [brian_s_beard]

>

> Friday, November 19, 2004 5:02 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: New to the group and a potential

> TCM student:

>

>

>

>

> Jeremy,

>

> The more you plan ahead for the change the better.

> Having a well

> thought out transition plan is well worth the

> effort. If you survive

> the first three years odds are you'll stay with it.

>

> I agree with matt, it is a problem that there is no

> reliable

> information about salaries or percent of

> practitioners still

> practicing after five yeears. I've asked a number of

> people what

> percentage of graduates go on to have successful

> practices and I come

> up with 25-35% consistently, but no one has any data

> to back this up

> with. Does anyone else have a feeling.

>

> WRT money issues, I once heard a chiropractor say,

> " to get into

> chiropractice school you have to be weird. the

> admissions office will

> ask you are you weird? if you say yes then you're

> allowed in.

> Acupuncture school is similar except you have to be

> weird AND have

> issues with money. " All of the AP's burst out

> laughing. There is

> truth there.

>

> Chinese Medicine ,

> " Jeremy "

> <jeremy_read20> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Thanks again for the replies!

> >

> > It looks like I may have to keep working and maybe

> do acupuncture

> on

> > the side for awhile until I get a good number of

> patients. Does

> this

> > sound like another possibility?

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meet the all-new My - Try it today!

 

[Guest guest]

As a part-time accountant, I still do acctg/taxes 2

days/week for others. You should plan on doing some

other work 20+ hrs/week for at least your first 2

years in practice. John Garbarini

--- briansbeard <brian_s_beard wrote:

 

>

> Jeremy,

>

> The more you plan ahead for the change the better.

> Having a well

> thought out transition plan is well worth the

> effort. If you survive

> the first three years odds are you'll stay with it.

>

> I agree with matt, it is a problem that there is no

> reliable

> information about salaries or percent of

> practitioners still

> practicing after five yeears. I've asked a number of

> people what

> percentage of graduates go on to have successful

> practices and I come

> up with 25-35% consistently, but no one has any data

> to back this up

> with. Does anyone else have a feeling.

>

> WRT money issues, I once heard a chiropractor say,

> " to get into

> chiropractice school you have to be weird. the

> admissions office will

> ask you are you weird? if you say yes then you're

> allowed in.

> Acupuncture school is similar except you have to be

> weird AND have

> issues with money. " All of the AP's burst out

> laughing. There is

> truth there.

>

> Chinese Medicine ,

> " Jeremy "

> <jeremy_read20> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Thanks again for the replies!

> >

> > It looks like I may have to keep working and maybe

> do acupuncture

> on

> > the side for awhile until I get a good number of

> patients. Does

> this

> > sound like another possibility?

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

The all-new My - Get yours free!

 

[Guest guest]

I wonder how many would become Western MD's if they faced an 82% failure

rate. I also believe that many go in thinking of a TCM practice as being

similar to an Western medical one.

 

On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 07:09, Christopher Vedeler wrote:

> 82% is actually about the failure rate of business startups in general

> and not just for acupuncture. I totally agree that those that succeed

> with their acupuncture business are savvy business people as well as

> compassionate and knowledgeable acupuncturists with good people skills.

>

> For all businesses, it is imperative to have a good well researched

> business plan, do a lot of research into demographics and pick a good

> area to setup and have the financial clout to survive two or more years

> with little or no income while the business grows. Why should

> acupuncture be any different? It seems that once they get their license

> to practice acupuncture, many people assume that people will just start

> knocking on their door for a treatment. Building an acupuncture

> practice will likely take about as much time and money as their TCM

> education and a whole lot more effort. It takes hard work to build any

> business.

[Guest guest]

My education included the same 45 hour class and it wasn't very thorough.

What was interesting, though, is that many of the people in the class took

it very lightly, almost as if it were a joke. I wanted about 3 more

classes, including one on insurance billing, accounting and marketing.

Anyway, I took the one class very seriously and created a business plan that

I put to use to the letter with good results.

 

 

 

It's been my observation (and I'll probably get " flamed " for saying this)

that many people drawn to acupuncture school are " artsy " , free-spirited and

a little rebellious and don't like to be bothered by the more structured

portions of the profession, especially the concepts of money, marketing and

competition. I think this dimension has played a part in the downfall of

many. On the other hand, I have seen many chiropractic students primarily

in it for the money and go into it not as healers but as a business venture.

I'm sure many of you out there have experienced the chiropractor who fits

this description, and it is unfortunate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Christopher Vedeler [ckvedeler] wrote:

 

I only had 45 hours out of 3000 hours of TCM training for practice

management. It was an awesome course, but not nearly enough.

Chiropractors spend a whole lot more time with practice management, and

it shows in how much better they are at marketing. In my very biased

opinion, our medicine is superior, but we are not well trained on how to

market and run a business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I agree with you here. Many students are airy-fairy, head in the sky and

don't see the practical side to doing the business modules in their course.

Actually, these business modules are very very useful. As there are no jobs

in TCM, most graduates are forced to open their own clinics. A good

understanding of business management, marketing and accountancy are

absolutely essential otherwise your doomed to fail.

 

Attilio

 

My education included the same 45 hour class and it wasn't very thorough.

What was interesting, though, is that many of the people in the class took

it very lightly, almost as if it were a joke. I wanted about 3 more

classes, including one on insurance billing, accounting and marketing.

Anyway, I took the one class very seriously and created a business plan that

I put to use to the letter with good results.

 

It's been my observation (and I'll probably get " flamed " for saying this)

that many people drawn to acupuncture school are " artsy " , free-spirited and

a little rebellious and don't like to be bothered by the more structured

portions of the profession, especially the concepts of money, marketing and

competition. I think this dimension has played a part in the downfall of

many. On the other hand, I have seen many chiropractic students primarily

in it for the money and go into it not as healers but as a business venture.

I'm sure many of you out there have experienced the chiropractor who fits

this description, and it is unfortunate.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The only reason most MDs, or hospitals, for that

matter, are even IN business, is INSURANCE money. We,

in turn, need ot EDUCATE people. I know this is a

royal pain sometimes, but it must be done to build a

practice. I practice in New Jersey, where the Acup.

Board used to fail 80-90% of all test takers!!!

We had to fight like hell to even get ADMITTED into

this state. Keep slugging away. John Garbarini

--- Mark Milotay <mmilotay wrote:

 

> I wonder how many would become Western MD's if they

> faced an 82% failure

> rate. I also believe that many go in thinking of a

> TCM practice as being

> similar to an Western medical one.

>

> On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 07:09, Christopher Vedeler

> wrote:

> > 82% is actually about the failure rate of business

> startups in general

> > and not just for acupuncture. I totally agree

> that those that succeed

> > with their acupuncture business are savvy business

> people as well as

> > compassionate and knowledgeable acupuncturists

> with good people skills.

> >

> > For all businesses, it is imperative to have a

> good well researched

> > business plan, do a lot of research into

> demographics and pick a good

> > area to setup and have the financial clout to

> survive two or more years

> > with little or no income while the business grows.

> Why should

> > acupuncture be any different? It seems that once

> they get their license

> > to practice acupuncture, many people assume that

> people will just start

> > knocking on their door for a treatment. Building

> an acupuncture

> > practice will likely take about as much time and

> money as their TCM

> > education and a whole lot more effort. It takes

> hard work to build any

> > business.

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meet the all-new My - Try it today!

 

[Guest guest]

Of all new businesses 90% fail in the first year. It doesn't matter

what arena!

 

No-one plan to fail - they fail to plan. Check and see how

many " failed " acupuncture businesses wrote a business and marketing

plan BEFORE they opened.

 

Acupuncture and is not a get rich scheme - it can't

be - we have to be educators first, ask any teacher or professor -

they'll tell you!

 

Spend 20% of your money and 80% of your time marketing. There are

loads of networking groups and professinals out there looking for

good speakers. It costs you virtually nothing but you meet people

and get your business known.

 

Pick your location wisely - if you hate speaking and don't want to

be an educator - stick to areas where people have already done the

groundwork for you. If your open to working the speaking arena -

you can go where the competition isn't and do fine.

 

Definitely 2 years of capital to live on is a good safety net - if

you don't need it fine, but it's a security blanket.

 

Medicare - a double edged knife - and one that ALL of us need to

recognize - It will reduce the barriers to treatment for many

patients, but do we leave it at $25 per treatment and not have them

meet the difference! That would be bad business. Then again I know

of an MD who charged Medicare $255 for an office visit - and they

paid a percentage (50%) - for 5 minutes work - so shouldn't we

adjust our fees to be adequately compensated?

 

Bottom line - if a 90% failure rate scares you, truth is you

shouldn't be thinking of going it alone - start out either in a

partnership or working for someone.

 

If the 90% failure rate just fires your liver qi - then be prepared

to put in 60+ hrs per week for the first 2 years - Reinvest a

minimum of 20% of your gross on marketing. Plan speaking

presentations at least 1x per week, join a networking group, chamber

of commerce etc. AND get yourself on a personal treatment schedule,

for AcuTx and herbs to support your goal. You will need all the qi

and blood you can get.

 

Finally - find yourself a good " Life Coach " - who can support you

when you lose perspective or need a sanity/reality check. They are

worth their weight in gold, and often are a great source of

referrals.

 

Happy Thanks Giving

 

 

Kayte

 

enjoy life, enjoy health, take care of you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , John Garbarini

<johnlg_2000> wrote:

>

> The only reason most MDs, or hospitals, for that

> matter, are even IN business, is INSURANCE money. We,

> in turn, need ot EDUCATE people. I know this is a

> royal pain sometimes, but it must be done to build a

> practice. I practice in New Jersey, where the Acup.

> Board used to fail 80-90% of all test takers!!!

> We had to fight like hell to even get ADMITTED into

> this state. Keep slugging away. John Garbarini

> --- Mark Milotay <mmilotay@t...> wrote:

>

> > I wonder how many would become Western MD's if they

> > faced an 82% failure

> > rate. I also believe that many go in thinking of a

> > TCM practice as being

> > similar to an Western medical one.

> >

> > On Sat, 2004-11-20 at 07:09, Christopher Vedeler

> > wrote:

> > > 82% is actually about the failure rate of business

> > startups in general

> > > and not just for acupuncture. I totally agree

> > that those that succeed

> > > with their acupuncture business are savvy business

> > people as well as

> > > compassionate and knowledgeable acupuncturists

> > with good people skills.

> > >

> > > For all businesses, it is imperative to have a

> > good well researched

> > > business plan, do a lot of research into

> > demographics and pick a good

> > > area to setup and have the financial clout to

> > survive two or more years

> > > with little or no income while the business grows.

> > Why should

> > > acupuncture be any different? It seems that once

> > they get their license

> > > to practice acupuncture, many people assume that

> > people will just start

> > > knocking on their door for a treatment. Building

> > an acupuncture

> > > practice will likely take about as much time and

> > money as their TCM

> > > education and a whole lot more effort. It takes

> > hard work to build any

> > > business.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Meet the all-new My - Try it today!

>

[Guest guest]

Thank YOU for this TRUTH and view on the positive...I think we all need to hear

that!!!

 

-

acupuncture4health

Sunday, November 21, 2004 11:45 PM

Chinese Medicine

Re: New to the group and a potential TCM student:

 

Of all new businesses 90% fail in the first year. It doesn't matter

what arena!

 

No-one plan to fail - they fail to plan. Check and see how

many " failed " acupuncture businesses wrote a business and marketing

plan BEFORE they opened.

 

Acupuncture and is not a get rich scheme - it can't

be - we have to be educators first, ask any teacher or professor -

they'll tell you!

 

Spend 20% of your money and 80% of your time marketing. There are

loads of networking groups and professinals out there looking for

good speakers. It costs you virtually nothing but you meet people

and get your business known.

 

Pick your location wisely - if you hate speaking and don't want to

be an educator - stick to areas where people have already done the

groundwork for you. If your open to working the speaking arena -

you can go where the competition isn't and do fine.

 

Definitely 2 years of capital to live on is a good safety net - if

you don't need it fine, but it's a security blanket.

 

Medicare - a double edged knife - and one that ALL of us need to

recognize - It will reduce the barriers to treatment for many

patients, but do we leave it at $25 per treatment and not have them

meet the difference! That would be bad business. Then again I know

of an MD who charged Medicare $255 for an office visit - and they

paid a percentage (50%) - for 5 minutes work - so shouldn't we

adjust our fees to be adequately compensated?

 

Bottom line - if a 90% failure rate scares you, truth is you

shouldn't be thinking of going it alone - start out either in a

partnership or working for someone.

 

If the 90% failure rate just fires your liver qi - then be prepared

to put in 60+ hrs per week for the first 2 years - Reinvest a

minimum of 20% of your gross on marketing. Plan speaking

presentations at least 1x per week, join a networking group, chamber

of commerce etc. AND get yourself on a personal treatment schedule,

for AcuTx and herbs to support your goal. You will need all the qi

and blood you can get.

 

Finally - find yourself a good " Life Coach " - who can support you

when you lose perspective or need a sanity/reality check. They are

worth their weight in gold, and often are a great source of

referrals.

 

Happy Thanks Giving

 

 

Kayte