Are the Bonghan Ducts real aatomical structures?

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Attilio

 

> ... the discovery of the meridians by ... a North Korean ... was

> later considered a hoax. Do you have any more information on this

> hoax?

 

Attilio, do not write if off completely as a hoax yet! There may be

some truth in the theory! It is hot science in Seoul just now!

See: http://tinyurl.com/4xx7r

 

Prof. Dr KIM Bong-han, Pyongyang, NORTH Korea, discovered a

previously unknown microsystem system of ducts and corpuscles

that he claimed were the anatomical basis for the Jing-Luo and

points. He claimed that injected radioactive material and due

travelled more quickly along the ducts than when injected into

random points. He published a slim thesis on the topic, which he

called the Kyungrak System. [Kim, B. On the Kyungrak System.

Medical Science Press, Pongyang, Korea, (1963)].

 

It was later renamed the " Bonghan System " , or " Bonghan

Corpuscular and Duct System " after him. I saw a copy of that

thesis in the early 1970s.

 

Until very recently, I heard that no other laboratory, even in North

Korea, could replicate that work. Therefore it was claimed that the

work was an artefact, or worse, a hoax.

 

All that changed very recently. In a dramatic development, because

Korean scientists in Seoul Univ (SOUTH Korea) have new evidence

of a previously unknown thread-like structure (a new anatomical

structure, with ducts circa 10 microns in diameter) in blood

vessels, the SOUTH Korean Government is funding new research

in the area NOW.

 

Dr. SOH Kwang-Sup (Biomedical Physics Lab., School of Physics,

Seoul National University) gave a paper on this in Oostende just

some weeks ago,

 

http://kmc.snu.ac.kr/proceeding3.pdf says: Threadlike bundle of

tubules running inside blood vessels: New anatomical structure

Xiaowen Jiang, * Byung-Cheon Lee, Chunho Choi, Ku-Youn Baik,

and Kwang-Sup Soh † Biomedical Physics Lab., School of

Physics, Seoul National University, Seoul, 151-747, Korea Hee-

Kyeong Kim School of Chemical Engineering, Seoul National

University Hak-Soo Shin Department of Physics Education, Seoul

National University Kyung-Soon Soh College of Oriental Medicine,

Sae Myong University, Chungbook Korea Byeung-Soo Cheun

School of Biochemistry, Inha University, Inchon, Korea (Dated: July

21, 2003) According to current anatomy, the arteries and veins do

not have threadlike structures running inside the vessels. Despite

such prevailing knowledge here we report on observation of a novel

structure inside the blood vessels of rats and rabbits, which is a

semi-transparent elastic bundle of tubules whose diameters are of

10µm order. This is a rediscovery of the Bong Han ducts1,2 which

have not been confirmed because the observing method was not

known. We found a new procedure of observing the intra blood

vessel ducts (IBVD) which are too thin, fragile, and semi-

transparent to be detected in ordinary surgical operation. The

method we contrived is to let blood be coagulated around the IBVD

so that they become thick and strong by intravenous injection of 10

per cent dextrose solution at the vena femoralis. A piece of

thickened IBVD sample is treated with urokinase to remove blood

clots and the thin thread of IBVD is embedded inside of a string of

fibrin.

 

http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0211086 says: Method for Observing

Intravascular BongHan Duct Xiaowen Jiang, * Byung-Cheon Lee,

Chunho Choi, Ku-Youn Baik, and Kwang-Sup Soh † Biomedical

Physics Lab., School of Physics, Seoul National University, Seoul,

151-747, Korea Hee-Kyeong Kim School of Chemical Engineering,

Seoul National University Hak-Soo Shin Department of Physics

Education, Seoul National University Kyung-Soon Soh College of

Oriental Medicine, Sae Myong University, Chungbook Korea

Byeung-Soo Cheun School of Biochemistry, Inha University,

Inchon, Korea (Dated: August 2, 2004) A method for observing intra

blood vessel ducts which are threadlike bundle of tubules which

form a part of the BongHan duct system. By injecting 10%

dextrose solution at a vena femoralis one makes the intravascular

BongHan duct thicker and stronger to be easily detectable after

incision of vessels. The duct is semi-transparent, soft and elastic,

and composed of smaller tubules whose diameters are of 10µm

order, which is in agreement with BongHan theory.

 

However, even if international independent science were to confirm

the reality of a previously unknown duct system within the blood

vessels, it very improbable that these ducts will be shown to be the

anatomical infrastructure of the Jing-Luo, UNLESS they can be

demonstrated in serial tissue sections along the superficial and

deep pathways of at least ALL 14 of the main meridians.

 

Watch this space, but do not hold your breath for full confirmation

of the reality of Jing-Luo-Mai as anatomical ducts, and Xue as

corpuscles off those ducts. Such confirmation would take many

years of painstaking research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

This has already been known, just without the

western names. Just because the Chinese didn't write

it into any scientific journal doesn't mean they have

not known about it.

In CHina, there are already point injections.

People have already known these things and more in

than any western science can think

of. Just because it has not been discovered by modern

science, does not mean that hasn;t

discovered it already.

Imagine, if westerners name things in Chinese

Medicine after themselves, other people will believe

that it was first discovered by the westerner...lol

Ridiculous but true. Nowadays, " Acupuncturists " are

only believing what Western Medical Science claims to

be true and a " New " discovery for .

 

People are viewing from a Western

Medical Perception. Thus, this will lead to the

quality and over all effectiveness of Real Chinese

Medicine to the history...that no one will ever

believe.

 

 

Peace,

Ai Wei

 

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi All, & Attilio

>

> > ... the discovery of the meridians by ... a North

> Korean ... was

> > later considered a hoax. Do you have any more

> information on this

> > hoax?

>

> Attilio, do not write if off completely as a hoax

> yet! There may be

> some truth in the theory! It is hot science in Seoul

> just now!

> See: http://tinyurl.com/4xx7r

>

> Prof. Dr KIM Bong-han, Pyongyang, NORTH Korea,

> discovered a

> previously unknown microsystem system of ducts and

> corpuscles

> that he claimed were the anatomical basis for the

> Jing-Luo and

> points. He claimed that injected radioactive

> material and due

> travelled more quickly along the ducts than when

> injected into

> random points. He published a slim thesis on the

> topic, which he

> called the Kyungrak System. [Kim, B. On the Kyungrak

> System.

> Medical Science Press, Pongyang, Korea, (1963)].

>

> It was later renamed the " Bonghan System " , or

> " Bonghan

> Corpuscular and Duct System " after him. I saw a copy

> of that

> thesis in the early 1970s.

>

> Until very recently, I heard that no other

> laboratory, even in North

> Korea, could replicate that work. Therefore it was

> claimed that the

> work was an artefact, or worse, a hoax.

>

> All that changed very recently. In a dramatic

> development, because

> Korean scientists in Seoul Univ (SOUTH Korea) have

> new evidence

> of a previously unknown thread-like structure (a new

> anatomical

> structure, with ducts circa 10 microns in diameter)

> in blood

> vessels, the SOUTH Korean Government is funding new

> research

> in the area NOW.

>

> Dr. SOH Kwang-Sup (Biomedical Physics Lab., School

> of Physics,

> Seoul National University) gave a paper on this in

> Oostende just

> some weeks ago,

>

> http://kmc.snu.ac.kr/proceeding3.pdf says:

> Threadlike bundle of

> tubules running inside blood vessels: New anatomical

> structure

> Xiaowen Jiang, * Byung-Cheon Lee, Chunho Choi,

> Ku-Youn Baik,

> and Kwang-Sup Soh † Biomedical Physics Lab., School

> of

> Physics, Seoul National University, Seoul, 151-747,

> Korea Hee-

> Kyeong Kim School of Chemical Engineering, Seoul

> National

> University Hak-Soo Shin Department of Physics

> Education, Seoul

> National University Kyung-Soon Soh College of

> Oriental Medicine,

> Sae Myong University, Chungbook Korea Byeung-Soo

> Cheun

> School of Biochemistry, Inha University, Inchon,

> Korea (Dated: July

> 21, 2003) According to current anatomy, the arteries

> and veins do

> not have threadlike structures running inside the

> vessels. Despite

> such prevailing knowledge here we report on

> observation of a novel

> structure inside the blood vessels of rats and

> rabbits, which is a

> semi-transparent elastic bundle of tubules whose

> diameters are of

> 10µm order. This is a rediscovery of the Bong Han

> ducts1,2 which

> have not been confirmed because the observing method

> was not

> known. We found a new procedure of observing the

> intra blood

> vessel ducts (IBVD) which are too thin, fragile, and

> semi-

> transparent to be detected in ordinary surgical

> operation. The

> method we contrived is to let blood be coagulated

> around the IBVD

> so that they become thick and strong by intravenous

> injection of 10

> per cent dextrose solution at the vena femoralis. A

> piece of

> thickened IBVD sample is treated with urokinase to

> remove blood

> clots and the thin thread of IBVD is embedded inside

> of a string of

> fibrin.

>

> http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0211086 says: Method

> for Observing

> Intravascular BongHan Duct Xiaowen Jiang, *

> Byung-Cheon Lee,

> Chunho Choi, Ku-Youn Baik, and Kwang-Sup Soh †

> Biomedical

> Physics Lab., School of Physics, Seoul National

> University, Seoul,

> 151-747, Korea Hee-Kyeong Kim School of Chemical

> Engineering,

> Seoul National University Hak-Soo Shin Department of

> Physics

> Education, Seoul National University Kyung-Soon Soh

> College of

> Oriental Medicine, Sae Myong University, Chungbook

> Korea

> Byeung-Soo Cheun School of Biochemistry, Inha

> University,

> Inchon, Korea (Dated: August 2, 2004) A method for

> observing intra

> blood vessel ducts which are threadlike bundle of

> tubules which

> form a part of the BongHan duct system. By injecting

> 10%

> dextrose solution at a vena femoralis one makes the

> intravascular

> BongHan duct thicker and stronger to be easily

> detectable after

> incision of vessels. The duct is semi-transparent,

> soft and elastic,

> and composed of smaller tubules whose diameters are

> of 10µm

> order, which is in agreement with BongHan theory.

>

> However, even if international independent science

> were to confirm

> the reality of a previously unknown duct system

> within the blood

> vessels, it very improbable that these ducts will be

> shown to be the

> anatomical infrastructure of the Jing-Luo, UNLESS

> they can be

> demonstrated in serial tissue sections along the

> superficial and

> deep pathways of at least ALL 14 of the main

> meridians.

>

> Watch this space, but do not hold your breath for

> full confirmation

> of the reality of Jing-Luo-Mai as anatomical ducts,

> and Xue as

> corpuscles off those ducts. Such confirmation would

> take many

> years of painstaking research.

>

Best regards,

>

> Email: <

[Guest guest]

Hi Ai Wei, & All,

 

Re the discovery of the Kyungrak / Bonghan Duct & Corpuscle

System, Ai Wei Lin wrote:

> This has already been known, just without the western names. Just

> because the Chinese didn't write it into any scientific journal

> doesn't mean they have not known about it. In China, there are

> already point injections. People have already known these things

> and more in than any western science can think of.

> Just because it has not been discovered by modern science, does not

> mean that hasn't discovered it already. Imagine,

> if westerners name things in after themselves,

> other people will believe that it was first discovered by the

> westerner...lol Ridiculous but true. " Acupuncturists " nowadays

> believe only what Western Medical Science claims to be true and a

> " New " discovery for . People are viewing Chinese

> Medicine from a Western Medical Perception. Thus, this will lead to

> the quality and over all effectiveness of Real to

> the history...that no one will ever believe. Peace, Ai Wei

 

Ai Wei, most AP practitioners use classical Chinese ideas of Jing-

Luo-Mai and Xue (points) every day. Channel relationships (Yin-

Yang Pairs, Five Phase Theory (Mother-Son, Grandmother, etc.),

Luo Theory (Luo Points), Six-Level Channel Theory, Qi-Flow

sequence (Qi Clock), etc., all depend on fundamental TCM theory.

 

However, on any topic, IMO, there is a great difference between

THEORY and FACT. By THEORY, I mean personal- or group-

belief and practical knowledge/experience. By FACT, I mean

published " scientific " data that confirm the reality of the theory.

 

That applies also to the Kyungrak System and classical Jing-Luo-

Mai and Xue (Points).

 

I have seen abstracts of some Chinese research that found SOME

evidence for a " Channel System " . For example, some authors

reported that Deqi, sound, light, electrical stimuli, and isotope

movement pass preferentially along pathways that seem to

correspond anatomically with the classical superficial pathways of

the classical Channels.

 

I have also seen abstracts of European (esp Austrian) research

that shows microscopic structural differences (vascular spirals,

more free nerve endings, more linear alignment of collagen fibres,

Heine Corpuscles, etc) at the locations of some AP points, as

compared with random points off the supposed Channel Path. But I

know of NO " western research " that documented anatomical

DUCTS that follow the pathways of the TCM Channels.

 

As far as I know, the KOREAN research, initially by KIM Bong-Han

(Pyongyang) in tthe 1960s and, more recently, by SOH Kwang-Sup

and his team (Seoul), is the first to show microscopic evidence that

previously undocumented anatomical infrastructure of microscopic

ducts may exist.

 

However, to date, the published Korean data have not confirmed

anatomical correlations between the locations of the microscopic

ducts and the locations of the classical Jing-Luo-Mai pathways.

 

I understand that modern China has adopted (and is developing

very rapidly) very many concepts of " western " science, medicine,

physics, pharmacology, computer science, etc, etc.

 

China is doing, and publishing, its own research, and has been

doing so for a long time. But I have seen no translations or

abstracts of Chinese publications that prove the existence of a

Kyungrak-type anatomical duct system.

 

Do YOU know of ANY published research papers from China that

show a duct and corpuscle system that corresponds anatonically

with the classical pathways (superficial and deep) of the main Jing-

Luo-Mai?

 

If so, can you provide summaries or other details of such papers?

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

Hi Ai Wei, & All,

 

Re the discovery of the Kyungrak / Bonghan Duct & Corpuscle

System, Ai Wei Lin wrote:

> This has already been known, just without the western names. Just

> because the Chinese didn't write it into any scientific journal

> doesn't mean they have not known about it. In China, there are

> already point injections. People have already known these things

> and more in than any western science can think of.

> Just because it has not been discovered by modern science, does not

> mean that hasn't discovered it already. Imagine,

> if westerners name things in after themselves,

> other people will believe that it was first discovered by the

> westerner...lol Ridiculous but true. " Acupuncturists " nowadays

> believe only what Western Medical Science claims to be true and a

> " New " discovery for . People are viewing Chinese

> Medicine from a Western Medical Perception. Thus, this will lead to

> the quality and over all effectiveness of Real to

> the history...that no one will ever believe. Peace, Ai Wei

 

Ai Wei, most AP practitioners use classical Chinese ideas of Jing-

Luo-Mai and Xue (points) every day. Channel relationships (Yin-

Yang Pairs, Five Phase Theory (Mother-Son, Grandmother, etc.),

Luo Theory (Luo Points), Six-Level Channel Theory, Qi-Flow

sequence (Qi Clock), etc., all depend on fundamental TCM theory.

 

However, on any topic, IMO, there is a great difference between

THEORY and FACT. By THEORY, I mean personal- or group-

belief and practical knowledge/experience. By FACT, I mean

published " scientific " data that confirm the reality of the theory.

 

That applies also to the Kyungrak System and classical Jing-Luo-

Mai and Xue (Points).

 

I have seen abstracts of some Chinese research that found SOME

evidence for a " Channel System " . For example, some authors

reported that Deqi, sound, light, electrical stimuli, and isotope

movement pass preferentially along pathways that seem to

correspond anatomically with the classical superficial pathways of

the classical Channels.

 

I have also seen abstracts of European (esp Austrian) research

that shows microscopic structural differences (vascular spirals,

more free nerve endings, more linear alignment of collagen fibres,

Heine Corpuscles, etc) at the locations of some AP points, as

compared with random points off the supposed Channel Path. But I

know of NO " western research " that documented anatomical

DUCTS that follow the pathways of the TCM Channels.

 

As far as I know, the KOREAN research, initially by KIM Bong-Han

(Pyongyang) in tthe 1960s and, more recently, by SOH Kwang-Sup

and his team (Seoul), is the first to show microscopic evidence that

previously undocumented anatomical infrastructure of microscopic

ducts may exist.

 

However, to date, the published Korean data have not confirmed

anatomical correlations between the locations of the microscopic

ducts and the locations of the classical Jing-Luo-Mai pathways.

 

I understand that modern China has adopted (and is developing

very rapidly) very many concepts of " western " science, medicine,

physics, pharmacology, computer science, etc, etc.

 

China is doing, and publishing, its own research, and has been

doing so for a long time. But I have seen no translations or

abstracts of Chinese publications that prove the existence of a

Kyungrak-type anatomical duct system.

 

Do YOU know of ANY published research papers from China that

show a duct and corpuscle system that corresponds anatonically

with the classical pathways (superficial and deep) of the main Jing-

Luo-Mai?

 

If so, can you provide summaries or other details of such papers?

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

, " "

<@e...> wrote:

 

> However, on any topic, IMO, there is a great difference between

> THEORY and FACT. By THEORY, I mean personal- or group-

> belief and practical knowledge/experience. By FACT, I mean

> published " scientific " data that confirm the reality of the theory.

>

 

>

> As far as I know, the KOREAN research, initially by KIM Bong-Han

> (Pyongyang) in tthe 1960s and, more recently, by SOH Kwang-Sup

> and his team (Seoul), is the first to show microscopic evidence that

> previously undocumented anatomical infrastructure of microscopic

> ducts may exist.

>

 

 

Well put. I agree with everything you wrote.

 

[Guest guest]

The knowing of the Meridians was through people

actually seeing them. Western Science does not need to

prove it for it to be real. They do not need to be

anatomical to exist.

Everything is energy first, then, it manifests

physically...the last form of manifestation.

The meridians are energetic. They exist. One can

see them if cultivated properly.

 

It is just common knowledge in .

Physical science can not measure that which is not

physical.

 

Peace,

Ai Wei

 

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi Ai Wei, & All,

>

> Re the discovery of the Kyungrak / Bonghan Duct &

> Corpuscle

> System, Ai Wei Lin wrote:

> > This has already been known, just without the

> western names. Just

> > because the Chinese didn't write it into any

> scientific journal

> > doesn't mean they have not known about it. In

> China, there are

> > already point injections. People have already

> known these things

> > and more in than any western

> science can think of.

> > Just because it has not been discovered by modern

> science, does not

> > mean that hasn't discovered it

> already. Imagine,

> > if westerners name things in

> after themselves,

> > other people will believe that it was first

> discovered by the

> > westerner...lol Ridiculous but true.

> " Acupuncturists " nowadays

> > believe only what Western Medical Science claims

> to be true and a

> > " New " discovery for . People are

> viewing Chinese

> > Medicine from a Western Medical Perception. Thus,

> this will lead to

> > the quality and over all effectiveness of Real

> to

> > the history...that no one will ever believe.

> Peace, Ai Wei

>

> Ai Wei, most AP practitioners use classical Chinese

> ideas of Jing-

> Luo-Mai and Xue (points) every day. Channel

> relationships (Yin-

> Yang Pairs, Five Phase Theory (Mother-Son,

> Grandmother, etc.),

> Luo Theory (Luo Points), Six-Level Channel Theory,

> Qi-Flow

> sequence (Qi Clock), etc., all depend on fundamental

> TCM theory.

>

> However, on any topic, IMO, there is a great

> difference between

> THEORY and FACT. By THEORY, I mean personal- or

> group-

> belief and practical knowledge/experience. By FACT,

> I mean

> published " scientific " data that confirm the reality

> of the theory.

>

> That applies also to the Kyungrak System and

> classical Jing-Luo-

> Mai and Xue (Points).

>

> I have seen abstracts of some Chinese research that

> found SOME

> evidence for a " Channel System " . For example, some

> authors

> reported that Deqi, sound, light, electrical

> stimuli, and isotope

> movement pass preferentially along pathways that

> seem to

> correspond anatomically with the classical

> superficial pathways of

> the classical Channels.

>

> I have also seen abstracts of European (esp

> Austrian) research

> that shows microscopic structural differences

> (vascular spirals,

> more free nerve endings, more linear alignment of

> collagen fibres,

> Heine Corpuscles, etc) at the locations of some AP

> points, as

> compared with random points off the supposed Channel

> Path. But I

> know of NO " western research " that documented

> anatomical

> DUCTS that follow the pathways of the TCM Channels.

>

> As far as I know, the KOREAN research, initially by

> KIM Bong-Han

> (Pyongyang) in tthe 1960s and, more recently, by SOH

> Kwang-Sup

> and his team (Seoul), is the first to show

> microscopic evidence that

> previously undocumented anatomical infrastructure of

> microscopic

> ducts may exist.

>

> However, to date, the published Korean data have not

> confirmed

> anatomical correlations between the locations of the

> microscopic

> ducts and the locations of the classical

> Jing-Luo-Mai pathways.

>

> I understand that modern China has adopted (and is

> developing

> very rapidly) very many concepts of " western "

> science, medicine,

> physics, pharmacology, computer science, etc, etc.

>

> China is doing, and publishing, its own research,

> and has been

> doing so for a long time. But I have seen no

> translations or

> abstracts of Chinese publications that prove the

> existence of a

> Kyungrak-type anatomical duct system.

>

> Do YOU know of ANY published research papers from

> China that

> show a duct and corpuscle system that corresponds

> anatonically

> with the classical pathways (superficial and deep)

> of the main Jing-

> Luo-Mai?

>

> If so, can you provide summaries or other details of

> such papers?

>

>

> Best regards,

>

> Email: <