Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hi, I'm treating a 37 year old woman who has pain with intercourse. Actually she's too tight to have intercourse, but there's no dryness (in fact, just recently she's noticed some discharge. She has not always been this way (although its been about 5 years), and says that despite the sexual abuse in her childhood she used to enjoy sex. She believes that the problem is related to an unconscious reaction to repressed memories of abuse, but is afraid to look at the problem too closely for fear of falling apart (she is a child psychologist, so is savvy psychologically). So, I am wondering how to treat this with TCM. I'm thinking maybe the Chong channel is in order---perhaps the problem is related to a cold uterus. An additional issue is that her mother died from ovarian cancer and she has been told that she has a 50% chance of getting it if she doesn't take either the pill or depo provera--she has chosen to use depo provera so avoid periods because she gets migrains with her periods (hopefully that will change with treatment). I suspect the hormones contribute to her stagnation. She's a lovely person who has coped amazingly well with a difficult childhood. This is understandably affecting her marriage and I'd like to help her--with acupuncture or herbs if needed. Anyone have any experience with this issue? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks! Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 I don't think the root of her problem can be address without looking at her childhood. I believe that people are intrinsically very strong, especially survivors of abuse, and as helping professionals we do them a dis-service by treating them as if they are weak and supporting their fears. If she survived the initial abuse she must eventually come to terms with it as an adult where she has the tools and maturity to work through it (especially being a child psychologist!). There are no alternatives to doing this in the end. The energy she must be using to repress dealing with these issues is more than likely the root cause of her sexual problem as well as any number of other physical problems she is experiencing like her painful periods and migraines. I have worked with this issue as a hypnotherapist and there are ways of confronting those early childhood demons without " falling apart " . With a compassionate and well trained approach patients can go through their fears, express their rage and release the strangle hold these early experiences have on them. I think that we need to be aware of our own fears and issues around child abuse and trauma and not project our stuff and judgment on our patients when they are coming to us for help. From a Chinese medicine perspective, according to the classics " Qi follows Shen " . The Qi stagnation in her genitals is clearly due to her Shen (the root). I would probably treat the Dai meridian before the Chong but either should help. Any issue regarding Qi stagnation and the genitals must involve the Liver and Gall Bladder (thus the Dai Mai over the Chong and also causing her migraines). There is a really powerful treatment using Ion pumping cords for these kinds of spirit issues. TW-5 on the right with the black lead to Liv-3 red lead on the left; PC-6 on the left with the red lead to GB-41 on the right with the black lead; plus Yin Tang (a powerful Ghost point). Retain the needles for 20 - 30 minutes and do not add any other points during this treatment as it can " confuse " the intent and flow of the Qi. I agree that the depo shots are contributing to her stagnation. Hormones work at the level of the Jing and are nothing to mess with unless there are no alternatives. She probably needs a multi-faceted approach (physical, psychological and spiritual) and a lot of compassion and loving support from many people around her to confront this. She may not be ready to deal with it all at once, and she doesn't have to. It will likely be a long journey of " peeling the onion " , but it can be a very empowering and liberating process. If she can find the courage to go straight into her fears and work through it her life will be her reward. Best of luck! Chris heylaurag [heylaurag] Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:18 AM Chinese Medicine Pain with intercourse Hi, I'm treating a 37 year old woman who has pain with intercourse. Actually she's too tight to have intercourse, but there's no dryness (in fact, just recently she's noticed some discharge. She has not always been this way (although its been about 5 years), and says that despite the sexual abuse in her childhood she used to enjoy sex. She believes that the problem is related to an unconscious reaction to repressed memories of abuse, but is afraid to look at the problem too closely for fear of falling apart (she is a child psychologist, so is savvy psychologically). So, I am wondering how to treat this with TCM. I'm thinking maybe the Chong channel is in order---perhaps the problem is related to a cold uterus. An additional issue is that her mother died from ovarian cancer and she has been told that she has a 50% chance of getting it if she doesn't take either the pill or depo provera--she has chosen to use depo provera so avoid periods because she gets migrains with her periods (hopefully that will change with treatment). I suspect the hormones contribute to her stagnation. She's a lovely person who has coped amazingly well with a difficult childhood. This is understandably affecting her marriage and I'd like to help her--with acupuncture or herbs if needed. Anyone have any experience with this issue? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks! Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Make a simple Hara test: In lateral plane: Is there any sign on R abdomen? - LU Is there any sign on L abdomen? - LV In linear plane: Is there any sign on Ren above navel? - SP ST HT Is there any sign on Ren below navel? - SP K BL On Ren above navel: Is there any sign on Ren above Ren 12? - HT Is there any sign on Ren below Ren 12? - ST SP On Ren above Ren 12: Is there any sign on Ren nearer Ren 12? - ST Is there any sign on Ren nearer Ren 14? - HT If a positive smack dab on these, read organ alongside: Ren 12 - ST Ren 14 - HT Ren 10 - ST pyloric end Ren 8.5 - K Ren 9 - SP Ren 7.5 - K Ren 7 - SP Ren 3 or 4 - K Ren 2 - BL Ren 2.5 - BL In that manner wind down from navel to pubis and sort out SP K or BL. For whichever finding you get, release with a remote point on same side forearm or leg points. If you test these out meticulously the patient may recover in one session. Don't forget the Adrenal Reflex. If find one treat ipsilateral sides. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. - " heylaurag " <heylaurag <Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:18 AM Pain with intercourse > > > > Hi, I'm treating a 37 year old woman who has pain with intercourse. > Actually she's too tight to have intercourse, but there's no dryness > (in fact, just recently she's noticed some discharge. She has not > always been this way (although its been about 5 years), and says that > despite the sexual abuse in her childhood she used to enjoy sex. She > believes that the problem is related to an unconscious reaction to > repressed memories of abuse, but is afraid to look at the problem too > closely for fear of falling apart (she is a child psychologist, so is > savvy psychologically). > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hi Laura & Chris, > She's a lovely person who has coped amazingly well with a difficult > childhood. This is understandably affecting her marriage and I'd > like to help her--with acupuncture or herbs if needed. Anyone have > any experience with this issue? Any thoughts would be > appreciated. Thanks! Laura As well as advice from other colleagues, and what Chris has said [and I agree with it], consider using 5-Phase Theory to address the basic EMOTIONAL deficiency: If no joy, work on HT-Shen, esp Shentang-BL44 If obssion/worry, work on SP-Yi, esp Yishe-BL49 If grief/sorrow, work on LU-Po, esp Pohu-BL42 If fear, work on KI-Zhi, esp Zhishi-BL52 If anger, work on LV-Hun, esp Hunmen-BL47 Apart from Z_03-Yintang, other points for the psyche include Ear Pt Shenmen, GV26-Shuigou, GV20-Baihui, HT07-Shenmen, PC06- Neiguan. Also, LV03-Taichong is a powerful point for inguinal/groin/genital problems. IMO, chronic and deep-seated physical/functional problems that relate to old trauma (mental and/or physical), inevitably involve the psyche/spirit, and one or more of the emotions. Skilled counselling to exteriorise the hidden mental trauma is essential. The subject often has a primal catharsis (screaming, crying, moaning, hitting the bed, etc) when the internalised trauma is released. Cure often follows quickly after that. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 I would give an agressive energy treatment a try. That would seem very appropriate. Also, I've had good results using GB13 & GB38 for spirit issues. brian beard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Lonny Jarrett has written extensively about these issues, including in Nourishing Destiny and practical suggestions in his Clinical Practice of . I believe you can also access a three part journal article, Betrayal of Intimacy, through his website: www.spiritpathpress.com. karen wrote: >Hi Laura & Chris, > > > >>She's a lovely person who has coped amazingly well with a difficult >>childhood. This is understandably affecting her marriage and I'd >>like to help her--with acupuncture or herbs if needed. Anyone have >>any experience with this issue? Any thoughts would be >>appreciated. Thanks! Laura >> >> > >As well as advice from other colleagues, and what Chris has said >[and I agree with it], consider using 5-Phase Theory to address the >basic EMOTIONAL deficiency: > >If no joy, work on HT-Shen, esp Shentang-BL44 >If obssion/worry, work on SP-Yi, esp Yishe-BL49 >If grief/sorrow, work on LU-Po, esp Pohu-BL42 >If fear, work on KI-Zhi, esp Zhishi-BL52 >If anger, work on LV-Hun, esp Hunmen-BL47 > >Apart from Z_03-Yintang, other points for the psyche include Ear Pt >Shenmen, GV26-Shuigou, GV20-Baihui, HT07-Shenmen, PC06- >Neiguan. > >Also, LV03-Taichong is a powerful point for inguinal/groin/genital >problems. > >IMO, chronic and deep-seated physical/functional problems that >relate to old trauma (mental and/or physical), inevitably involve the >psyche/spirit, and one or more of the emotions. > >Skilled counselling to exteriorise the hidden mental trauma is >essential. The subject often has a primal catharsis (screaming, >crying, moaning, hitting the bed, etc) when the internalised trauma >is released. Cure often follows quickly after that. > > >Best regards, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Hi Karen & All, Re: RE: Pain with intercourse Send reply to: Chinese Medicine [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] Karen wrote: > Lonny Jarrett has written extensively about these issues, > including in Nourishing Destiny and practical suggestions in his > Clinical Practice of . I believe you can also > access a three part journal article, Betrayal of Intimacy, through > his website: www.spiritpathpress.com. karen Great site, Karen! The front page [ http://www.spiritpathpress.com/ ] reads: " UPPER (class) medicines.....[NOURISH] DESTINY and correspond to HEAVEN ... If one wishes to prolong the years of life without aging, one should " use these. MIDDLE (class) medicines [NOURISH] one's NATURE and correspond to MAN. ...If one wishes to prevent illness and to supplement depletions and emaciations, one should " use these. LOWER (class) medicines....[TREAT] illness and correspond to EARTH. If one wishes to remove cold, heat and (other) evil influences (from the body), to break accumulations, and to cure illnesses, one should base (one's efforts) on (drugs listed in) the lower (class of this) manual. " Source: Shen Nong Ben Cao Can you list examples of Shennong's UPPER, MIDDLE and LOWER class medicines? Better still, can you cite a WWW reference that lists the medicines in each of those classes? http://www.spiritpathpress.com/articles.html has links to: ARTICLES AP Point Function Chinese Character List & Glossary Constitution, Theme & Thread of Life Holographic Paradigm & AP Inner Functions of AP Points Myth & Meaning In CM Nature of Cure & Healing Niu Huang Ching Xin Wan [CHM formula] The Returned Spirit (Gui Ling) of TCM Use of Exit & Entry Points in Traditional AP ABSTRACTS CM & Betrayal of Intimacy: Theory & Treatment of Abuse, Incest, Rape & Divorce with AP & Herbs Constitutional Type & Internal Tradition of CM Loss & Return of Original Nature: Law of Husband/Wife Role of Human Will (Zhi), & Spirit of BL52 Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 > hello, > >.... and says that > despite the sexual abuse in her childhood she used to enjoy sex. She > believes that the problem is related to an unconscious reaction to > repressed memories of abuse, but is afraid to look at the problem too > closely for fear of falling apart (she is a child psychologist, so is > savvy psychologically). It is impossible that she is savvy psychologically else there'd be no " unconscious reaction to repressed memories of abuse " . I'd treat holistically based on chinese diagnostic signs, pulse, tongue, colour etc., especially using " Window points " and recommend she sees a psychotherapist as a matter of priority - her job is no accident, given her history, and she is at risk of unconsciously working out her own problems on her clients - not a good idea!! > > has chosen to use depo provera thats clever - that'll help with her hormones and her cancer worries!!!!! Hmmm, sarcasm is hard to convey, aint it? regards stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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