Reuse of AP needles

[Guest guest]

To reuse used needles, is to condemn the person you are putting these into,

to be as ridden of bugs, as the most infected person into which these

went last.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

wrote:

 

> Widespread, and increasing, public usage of AP/CAM directly

> threatens their status and incomes! And they will do all that they

> can to bury their competitition (AP and other CAMs).

>

> I have suggested many times in the past 2 years that National AP

> Boards/Licensing Authotities should BAN needle re-use officially

> and publicly, and should enforce that ban on its members.

 

> ... It would remove one red-herring-criticism

> from our " enemies " , and it would make the public look more

> closely at how dentists & other WM professionals handle re-use of

> THEIR instruments.

>

 

I don't think that ANY technical response will diffuse attacks.

 

But enlarging the social target mass will work very well.

 

The issue is social and needs to be met with socially adept responses.

 

Put another way, the attack is emotionally dumb but socially

sensitive (sharp points & health), the solution needs to be emotionally

smarter and diffusing social converns.

 

bye,

vic

--

Vic Williams (604)433-5189 -- www.strategicprocess.com -- www.spiralwild.com

Empowering personal growth. Developing Personal & Group Ecology.

Everybody thinks of changing humanity, but nobody thinks of changing himself. ~

Leo Tolstoy

[Guest guest]

wrote:

<snip>

>

>> The reason I started replying to these post about fire needles and

 

Hi Dr. Phil!

 

In Florida only disposables are allowed.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

 

I stopped autoclaving 15 years ago not out of concerns I put my patients at risk

but rather because I was spending too much time trying to explain why my needles

were safe. What I did before then was to use new needles on every new patient

then place those needles in a autoclave pouch with the patient's name written on

it and a sterilization indicator in each packet. Each patient had their own

needles that were not used on anyone else. I was trying to save my patient's

some money but when I made the switch, I simply raised my rates by $2 a

treatment and my patients were all happy as clams. I continue to defend the

safety of autoclaving acupuncture needles because of its excellent long safety

record but I agree with you about the PR value of only using disposable

needles.There is no reason to give anyone any excuse to be critical of us - we

have enough to worry about without having to defend our sterilization protocols.

 

I guess I get a little defensive about autoclaving from the battles some of us

engaged in years ago with blood banks here in the U.S. 15-20 years ago. Most

U.S. blood banks routinely refused to allow anyone to donate blood who had

undergone acupuncture in the previous 3-6 months. They classified acupuncture in

the same category as tattooing and body piercing. From my role in a California

acupuncture association, I dealt with blood banks here in California trying to

educate them about the safety record of acupuncture. This required me to do

extensive research of all known cases of acupuncture induced cross contamination

as well as consult with experts regarding the autoclaving protocols we

established here in California. It took years of work by myself and others

before blood banks began to allow acupuncture patients to donate blood. This was

back in the days before disposable needles were the norm and we had to show how

our sterilization protocols were at least equal to other healthcare

professions'. Now days, of course, most blood banks will ask donors if their

acupuncturist uses disposable needles once again suggesting those who don't use

disposable needles put their patients at more risk than other healthcare

professions that are not screened. Here in California where more than one third

of U.S. acupuncturist practice, we are not required by law to use disposable

needles. For the PR reasons you articulate, I believe our Board should make

disposable needles mandatory, but until that happens I just hope other

acupuncturist will not jump to the same conclusions blood banks jumped to 15

years ago. No one knows how many California acupuncturists may be reusing

needles but while those who do and who follow the regulations for autoclaving

might well be criticized for practicing bad PR, there is still no evidence today

that they practice bad medicine. Matt

 

 

-

Chinese Medicine

Friday, November 05, 2004 3:56 AM

Re: Reuse of AP needles

 

 

Hi All, & Matt,

 

Matt Bauer wrote:

> The reason I started replying to these post about fire needles and

> the larger question of sterilization methods was not because I

> advocate reusing needles but rather because of some of the

> over-the-top language some members of this list used in condemning

> autoclaving AP needles as a serious risk to the public. To the best

> of knowledge, there has never been a case of any

> cross-contamination from AP needles that were autoclaved according

> to accepted standards. It's great that the low cost of AP needles

> makes it a no-brainer for us to use disposable equipment, but it

> was this low cost that drove most (but not all) regulators to make

> disposable needles mandatory - not evidence of alarming health

> risks. Even in the days before disposable needles, AP enjoyed a

> wonderful safety record as compared to other health care

> professions whose equipment could cause cross-contamination. I

> agree that two wrongs do not make a right and that just because

> other health care professionals reuse equipment that occasionally

> cause cross-contamination does not mean we should also, but I just

> wanted to try to put into perspective that autoclaving AP needles

> is not inherently risky when compared to other healthcare fields -

> such as dentistry that we seem to accept without much critical

> thought. - Matt

 

Matt, I agree fully with your argument if the only factor was the real

medical risk. But that is NOT the only factor.

 

IMO, as you said, the statistical risk of cross-infection due to

reused AP needles after thorough cleansing + autoclaving is

extremely low. IMO, the risk much less than after autoclaving of,

say, dental drills, or hypodermic needles (with a lumen). However,

the MEDICAL risk is NOT my main point!

 

Like it or not, AP is " on the OUTSIDE " of mainstream ( " accepted " )

medicine. Like it or not, quackbuster-types seek and exploit every

little piece of mud/ammunition to sling at us.

 

Those who want to eliminate the use of AP harp on (rightly IMO),

about the paucity of high-quality AP research, and, thus, the

paucity of EBM-type validation, for AP. They highlight the growing

evidence that the specificity of AP points used, and the type of

physical stimuli applied are not very important in clinical outcomes.

They selectively highlight data that suggest that " real AP " is not

significantly superior to placebo- or random-type stimuli, etc.

 

My point is: why give our critics another stick with which to beat us

when very cheap single-use needles exist?

 

Our critics do not CARE a jot what happens in the far-flung villages

of the world! They have nothing to do with those villagers. Village

protocols do not impact on their grasp of " national authority " or

incomes from the practice of WM.

 

But the enemies of AP do care about (and are very worried by) the

escalating use of AP and other complementary medical methods in

the cities of the " first world " . The money spent annually on CAMs

is now a major threat to the incomes of " Big Pharma " , the mainline

WM professions, and to the WM clinics and hospitals that depend

on full waiting rooms, clinics and wards!

 

Widespread, and increasing, public usage of AP/CAM directly

threatens their status and incomes! And they will do all that they

can to bury their competitition (AP and other CAMs).

 

I have suggested many times in the past 2 years that National AP

Boards/Licensing Authotities should BAN needle re-use officially

and publicly, and should enforce that ban on its members.

 

Yes, that suggestioon is " over the top " if the only consideration is

the medical risk of cross-infection!! However, IMO, such a public

ban would be a very powerful Public Relations coup for the AP

professions in the west. It would remove one red-herring-criticism

from our " enemies " , and it would make the public look more

closely at how dentists & other WM professionals handle re-use of

THEIR instruments.

 

Best regards,

Phil

 

PS. Matt also referred to my mail on a possible risk from cross-

transmission of prion infectivity after autoclaving. I agree that that

risk is infinitesimal, but there is a risk. So why take it to save a few

cents?

 

 

Best regards,

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