Guest guest Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Can you tell me if either one is more effective than the other between cupping and Gua Sha. Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 That depends on many factors The patient, the condition, the body area involved The practitioner, their skill, experience, and expertise (and confidence) doug _____ mischievous00 [mischievous00] Wednesday, October 13, 2004 2:23 PM Chinese Medicine cupping vs. gua sha Can you tell me if either one is more effective than the other between cupping and Gua Sha. Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hi Brian, I asked my teacher the question ... i.e., when does he use one vs. the other. He says that it is just intuitive. He did say that cupping on thin " non-fleshy " people should not be done because it would be too painful, so he usually choose guasha under those circumstances. Today, I few of us got together and we asked him to use moving cupping on us. It definitely feels different from guasha. Guasha's scrapping action is more like cleaning a floor with a broom. You can go over, and over the same area as you try to get the sha to move out. Cupping, on the other hand, feels more like a vacuum cleaner. It pulls the sludge out and goes deeper, but it is not as easy to go over the same " ground " again, and again, as you try to move things out. Different effects. In case you are curious, my whole back (and I do mean my whole back), is red and hot from the moving cupping. There definitely was lots of qi surfacing that was removed. The last time I had my back guashaed, there was no where near this effect. I am not sure how many patients would allow this type of treatment, but it is extremely effective for all kinds of problems - particularly since it can be used to remove stagnation from the critical spinal area. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say on the subject. Regards, Rich Chinese Medicine , " mischievous00 " <mischievous00> wrote: > > > Can you tell me if either one is more effective than the other > between cupping and Gua Sha. > Thanks > Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Brian They are different techniques for different areas of stagnation. Thats why in the method of use I developed they are used together. Richard In a message dated 10/13/2004 3:28:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mischievous00 writes: Can you tell me if either one is more effective than the other between cupping and Gua Sha. Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Rich says: I asked my teacher the question ... i.e., when does he use one vs. the other. He says that it is just intuitive. He did say that cupping on thin " non-fleshy " people should not be done because it would be too painful, so he usually choose guasha under those circumstances. Richard says: I will upload some pictures on a recent case of an MD-Physiatrist who came to me regarding muscle twitching in had at LI-4 lasting over several weeks. I used cupping on the dorsal side of the hand among other areas. Not easy to do...yet as you will see... quite effective. The blood stagnation released there, at LI-11 (regarding simultaneous lateral epicondylitis) and cervical lesion totally resolved this problem in 1 treatment. Cupping in areas that are non-fleshy is possible but needs more experience. At the same time there are specific areas such as fingers/toes and some others that are almost impossible to get a cup on or around them so guasha is the treatment of choice between the two. Rich says: Today, I few of us got together and we asked him to use moving cupping on us. It definitely feels different from guasha. Guasha's scrapping action is more like cleaning a floor with a broom. You can go over, and over the same area as you try to get the sha to move out. Cupping, on the other hand, feels more like a vacuum cleaner. It pulls the sludge out and goes deeper, but it is not as easy to go over the same " ground " again, and again, as you try to move things out. Different effects. Richard says: And QiSha is different than GuaSha. And lifting the cups after 5 seconds and moving them to another spot is also different than sliding the cups. Rich says: In case you are curious, my whole back (and I do mean my whole back), is red and hot from the moving cupping. There definitely was lots of qi surfacing that was removed. The last time I had my back guashaed, there was no where near this effect. Richard says: When sha is really moved even if in an isolated area...the action of unblocking will almost always bring a rush of heat/qi into the area. Often when certian releases happen there is immediate itching with the desire to scratch the area. Rich says: I am not sure how many patients would allow this type of treatment, but it is extremely effective for all kinds of problems - particularly since it can be used to remove stagnation from the critical spinal area. Richard answers: Not to belabor the point. Some have heard me speak of these practice experiences for years in other groups such as PA-L so I offer this statement that I have for a long time primarily use this method instead of acupuncture needles and in over 8 years and many thousands of treatments/patients....I have not yet had one refuse treatment nor get upset about the results. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hi Richard, > Richard answers: > Not to belabor the point. Some have heard me speak of these practice > experiences for years in other groups such as PA-L so I offer this statement that I > have for a long time primarily use this method instead of acupuncture needles > and in over 8 years and many thousands of treatments/patients....I have not yet > had one refuse treatment nor get upset about the results. > > Richard > Thanks for the added information and advice. I don't think any of patients that go to the practitioner that I see have ever refused treatment, but I am not sure it is always offered. I will get in touch with you off-line to discuss the possibility of you visiting Chicago. Thanks again for sharing your experiences. They are extremely helpful. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 My teacher and mentor Andrew Wu (Cupertino, CA) taught me a style a Gua Sha that involved striking or hitting. Where he used his hand, back side hitting the area of stagnation. this took several minutes and looked very bad (as typical). I can only say that it was painful but in a good way and very well tolerated by a great many patients. Patients always feeling immediately better. Even where there was intolerable backache and we would hit Bladder 40 (behind the knee) area there was often immediate relief. When done correctly one could do this all day and not developed any sores or bruises on one's striking hand. You could see the area of stagnation being released. Dr Wu often had doctors from mainland China visit his clinic. There were a great many variations of gua sha. Some used large magnets encased in plastic. Some techniques scraped the feet. Stagnation was often found at the elbows and back of the knees. Ed kasper LAc Santa Cruz, CA -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.275 / Virus Database: 264.10.3 - Release 10/12/2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hi Ed, > > My teacher and mentor Andrew Wu (Cupertino, CA) taught me a style a >Gua Sha that involved striking or hitting. Yes, I have also seen striking and hitting used in order to " wake up " the body and get the energy flowing again. Cleaning out the body is really very much like cleaning out " plumbing pipes " - twisting, striking, pulling, pushing, etc. By observing the effects of these techniques, I came to the conclusion that health maintenance is not about " balance " but instead it is about allowing " free flow " and permitting the body to naturally regulate the flow from the outside of the body into the inside the body. Acupuncture is essentially trying to do the same thing in a different way. As a side note, I think that WM pharmaceuticals are doing the same thing in a completely opposite way. Pharmaceutical drugs, I believe, are actually designed to quickly " create blockages " which suppress symptoms and thereby shut down the body's " alert systems " This is what " double-blind " studies are searching for - drugs that block the body from showing symptoms of disease. As a result, the " blockages " over time create more and more problems. I see this all the time among my friends who are using powerful drugs to treat their chronic problems. This viewpoint is completely counter to the viewpoint of " eliminating blockages from the body " . Of course, any modality is capable of creating blockages, not just WM pharmaceuticals. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hey Rich - I would add a little to what you said regarding health maintenance being about allowing free flow from the outside of the body to the inside; it is also about allowing free flow from the inside of the body to the outside in true yin/yang fashion. I would also suggest that such outside to inside and then inside to outside free flow is a form of " balance. " - Matt - Rich Chinese Medicine Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:31 PM Re: cupping vs. gua sha Hi Ed, > > My teacher and mentor Andrew Wu (Cupertino, CA) taught me a style a >Gua Sha that involved striking or hitting. Yes, I have also seen striking and hitting used in order to " wake up " the body and get the energy flowing again. Cleaning out the body is really very much like cleaning out " plumbing pipes " - twisting, striking, pulling, pushing, etc. By observing the effects of these techniques, I came to the conclusion that health maintenance is not about " balance " but instead it is about allowing " free flow " and permitting the body to naturally regulate the flow from the outside of the body into the inside the body. Acupuncture is essentially trying to do the same thing in a different way. As a side note, I think that WM pharmaceuticals are doing the same thing in a completely opposite way. Pharmaceutical drugs, I believe, are actually designed to quickly " create blockages " which suppress symptoms and thereby shut down the body's " alert systems " This is what " double-blind " studies are searching for - drugs that block the body from showing symptoms of disease. As a result, the " blockages " over time create more and more problems. I see this all the time among my friends who are using powerful drugs to treat their chronic problems. This viewpoint is completely counter to the viewpoint of " eliminating blockages from the body " . Of course, any modality is capable of creating blockages, not just WM pharmaceuticals. Regards, Rich http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hi Matt, > > I would add a little to what you said regarding health maintenance being about allowing free flow from the outside of the body to the inside; it is also about allowing free flow from the inside of the body to the outside in true yin/yang fashion. I would also suggest that such outside to inside and then inside to outside free flow is a form of " balance. " - Matt Yes, I agree. The " body " creates a natural balance between itself and the outside - the " body " being a " condensed " form of qi that is created by " the Mind " ? However, there is a difference between an " outside " practitioner trying to " create a balance " by " tonifying and sedating " (I would liken this to trying to create " balance " between an ocean and a little pondby adding or subtracting a pail of water), vs. allowing the body to find its own natural balance by eliminating obstructions/blockages. It is true that some " emergency energy (qi) " may have to be introduced or eliminated if the situation is serious, but ultimately full health can only be achieved if there is unimpeded flow. Now the question I am deliberating is whether any one modality is sufficient to treat different types of blockages that may ocurr within the human body - ie. substantial and insubstantial physical, mental, and spiritual blockages. The answer indeed may be yes since ultimately it appears that it is the Shen that determines the nature of blockages and flow. However it is also possible that each Shen may react differently to different modalities and relationships, which means that a practitioner that knows different modalities and approaches will have a better chance of finding the right practitioner/patient fit. Sort of like looking for the right key to fit in a lock. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 , " mischievous00 " <mischievous00> wrote: > > > Can you tell me if either one is more effective than the other > between cupping and Gua Sha. > Thanks > Brian More effective at what? You need to be more specific. Also, please leave your full name when posting, as there are several " Brian " s on the forum. In the past, it has been requested that we have our full names on the posts. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Rich wrote: > > > Hi Brian, > > I asked my teacher the question ... i.e., when does he use one vs. the > other. He says that it is just intuitive. He did say that cupping on > thin " non-fleshy " people should not be done because it would be too > painful, so he usually choose guasha under those circumstances. Hi Rich! I have done cupping, and had it done on me. I like it, wish I had it more often. Gua sha has its uses as well, but to me is less commonly available. I have done some on myself to places where I can reach, can't reach the places that need it the most :-) Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Hi Pete, > I have done cupping, and had it done on me. I like it, wish I had it > more often. > > Gua sha has its uses as well, but to me is less commonly available. I > have done some on myself to places where I can reach, can't reach the > places that need it the most :-) > > Regards, > > Pete Around my neck of the woods, gua sha and cupping have become quite common. :-) We are all having it done to ourselves in order to release " stagnation " . I had my whole back done using sliding cupping. It wasn't too bad. The other people who were observing thought it felt worse that what it was. But, at the end, my whole back had this purplish red color, a sure sign that there was a nice amount of stagnation lurking in my body. My qigong " wave " exercises must have been loosening up things internally and it was rising out of my body. Anyways, it should be interesting to see what the color is after my next cupping. I think I will have my wife do it. :-) Regards, Richy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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