Cluster headaches

[Guest guest]

Alon

Have you tried blood stasis herbs hong hua etc ..the pain is fixed and

Possibly due to the tooth trauma.

I have no idea on the Aug-March pattern though...in the northern hemisphere

that is Summer right through till the following spring......so it seems the

free of pain period is the earth period between seasons .

What have you tried so far?

 

 

Heiko Lade

Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist

2 Jenkins St.

Green Island, Dunedin

New Zealand

Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012

http://www.lade.com/heiko

Email: heiko

[Guest guest]

Alon

Sorry about that .... I wasn't very clear.

I was referring to 5 elements and seasonal cycles. " the spleen belongs to

the earth which pertains to the centre,its influence manifests for 18 days

at the end of each of the four seasons and it does not pertain to any season

of its own " (from classic of categories).

I thought that your headache patient might fall into this period when he has

a spell from his headaches in " late spring " .

Even if that was the case ...I still don't have an explanation as to why.

 

Heiko Lade

Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist

2 Jenkins St.

Green Island, Dunedin

New Zealand

Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012

http://www.lade.com/heiko

Email: heiko

[Guest guest]

Alon

Didn't you submit a case history about a patient with a cluster headache

that probably started after a tooth extraction , it had a fixed pain

etc...it occured from June to March or something...........maybe it was

someone else?

 

Anyway you just said that your main interest is musculo-sceletal stuff....

Have you or anyone had experience with herniated discs. And success with

preventing an operation.

 

 

Heiko Lade

Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist

2 Jenkins St.

Green Island, Dunedin

New Zealand

Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012

http://www.lade.com/heiko

Email: heiko

[Guest guest]

Have you tried blood stasis herbs hong hua etc ..the pain is fixed andPossibly due to the tooth trauma.I have no idea on the Aug-March pattern though...in the northern hemispherethat is Summer right through till the following spring......so it seems thefree of pain period is the earth period between seasons .What have you tried so far?>>>What is this

Alon

[Guest guest]

AlonSorry about that .... I wasn't very clear.I was referring to 5 elements and seasonal cycles. "the spleen belongs tothe earth which pertains to the centre,its influence manifests for 18 daysat the end of each of the four seasons and it does not pertain to any seasonof its own" (from classic of categories).I thought that your headache patient might fall into this period when he hasa spell from his headaches in "late spring ".Even if that was the case ...I still don't have an explanation as to why.

>>>>I have not seen or written on a topic that this post can apply to. That is the reason I do not understand were is this coming from

Alon

 

-

heiko

Friday, December 08, 2000 1:48 AM

Re: cluster headaches

AlonSorry about that .... I wasn't very clear.I was referring to 5 elements and seasonal cycles. "the spleen belongs tothe earth which pertains to the centre,its influence manifests for 18 daysat the end of each of the four seasons and it does not pertain to any seasonof its own" (from classic of categories).I thought that your headache patient might fall into this period when he hasa spell from his headaches in "late spring ".Even if that was the case ...I still don't have an explanation as to why.Heiko LadeRegistered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist2 Jenkins St.Green Island, DunedinNew ZealandTel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012http://www.lade.com/heikoEmail: heikoThe Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Didn't you submit a case history about a patient with a cluster headachethat probably started after a tooth extraction , it had a fixed painetc...it occured from June to March or something...........maybe it wassomeone else?

>>>>Not me. But I was wandering what happened with that patient.Anyway you just said that your main interest is musculo-sceletal stuff....Have you or anyone had experience with herniated discs. And success withpreventing an operation.

 

>>>>First you should know that in almost all cases conventional surgery is not needed and long term out come is the same for conservative treatment and surgery. Actually the patient is usually much better off w/out laminectomy or fusion unless they have an internally disrupted disc that is chemically sensitive (on discogram) in which fusion is the only affective treatment at this point. This should be done if the patient has a one level problem. For more than one level outcomes are often poor. OM, osteopathy and all other interventions only gives little relief of pain.If the patients has true dural and nerve root signs with leg (not back) pain, weakness and changes in reflexes then there are other methods (nonsurgical) that are the preferred treatment. Using OM methods for this kind of patient are only palliative and not very affective (although I have had a about 12 patients w/ remarkable outcome in a short time, but the results are not reliable). Probably due to changes in the inflammatory reaction of the patients. Remember 30-50 % of asymptomatic populations have so called herniated discs.

If the patient can function and can live w/ the pain then combining methods such as OM, with McKenzie exercises, steroids (injected or oral) and manual therapies to deal w/ joint dysfunctions can be very affective. Loss of muscle function is then used to judge treatment.

For patients w/ sever nerve root pain and loss of function there are now new intervention that work extremely well but only available in very few places. These are nonsurgical methods and if I had nerve root discogenic pain I would choose them over OM and other methods.

Alon

[Guest guest]

Heiko,

 

The cluster headache patient was mine not Alon's. An interesting point about

the abating of the headaches at the end of wood, during fire and earth. I

still can't sort out how to integrate this info into the the big picture.

I'm not sure that I will g=have the opportunity if the patient doesn't come

back.

 

Kristin

 

-

heiko <heiko

 

Friday, December 08, 2000 4:48 AM

Re: cluster headaches

 

 

> Alon

> Sorry about that .... I wasn't very clear.

> I was referring to 5 elements and seasonal cycles. " the spleen belongs to

> the earth which pertains to the centre,its influence manifests for 18 days

> at the end of each of the four seasons and it does not pertain to any

season

> of its own " (from classic of categories).

> I thought that your headache patient might fall into this period when he

has

> a spell from his headaches in " late spring " .

> Even if that was the case ...I still don't have an explanation as to why.

>

> Heiko Lade

> Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist

> 2 Jenkins St.

> Green Island, Dunedin

> New Zealand

> Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012

> http://www.lade.com/heiko

> Email: heiko

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

 

 

Shop Safely Online Without a Credit Card

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[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

 

I just sent a whole bunch of info to a friend of mine the other day

about migraines, tension headaches and cluster headaches. When I get a

moment today I'll forward you the stuff I sent him

 

But quickly Acupuncture and Chiropractic seem to be quite helpful for

reducing the number of such kinds of headaches. The herb feverfew taken

as a daily supplement helps some prevent them too. The lavender

peppermint rub sounds very nice for dealing with a headache in progress.

And an old holistic practitioner I knew back in NY used to say to take a

strong very warm white vinegar bath to help a headache in progress

(migraine, cluster, etc ..)

 

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

 

kat101962 [kat964]

 

 

My nephew who is in his 20's suffers from cluster headaches.

Sometimes he goes for weeks on end without one and then bam he has

lots. He is willing to try aromatherapy. I'm curious if anyone has

had this problem and what they used to help with the onset. I'm

giving him 3 different things to try...one contains lavender and

peppermint to rub on the temples...one contains lavender, lemon and

peppermint to rub on the base of his skull neck and shoulders and

the last one is a soak for his hands which has lavender and ginger.

The soak is suppose to raise the temperature in his hands and thus

short circuiting the headache by regulating the circulation in his

body. I think this is kinda like a warm bath where all the blood

goes to the immersed parts of the body to regulate the rest of the

body's temperature. Any suggestions? Kathy

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for the info, Chris. I'll forward it to my nephew.

He is always looking for relief for those darn headaches. Kathy

[Guest guest]

Dear Jean, friend,

Let's view this kind of headache with me.

 

This kind of headache with He-SI full and push " seems happened

as extreme heat in FIRE element " . Extreme heat causes bubling

water, water expands and blood pressure increases, in pulses such as

full and push " flooding pulse " . If this happens in He-SI pulses, it

is " FIRE element -extreme " .

If Liv-Gal have the same pulses as above, this may be an extreme

Fire from Liv-Gal ascends to the HE-SI and causes all kinds of excess

Fire " Upperjiao " . This is clearly seen in temple area " GB channel

" . The patient may have had some emotional depressed, ask him to know

more for sure. This patient seems to be hyperactive " from excess " ?

Why does he have to use Oxygen and spray ? Are these for asthma or

for sinuses ?

A cool rag gives him a temporarily relief, this is obviously " too

much interior heat " , besides lights makes it worse or off light

makes him feel better.

If the attacks appear every night, Yin deficiency must also be

counted, otherwise ignore this. Bowel and urine are normal means that

FIRE does not descend to harm the lowerjiao. Sleeping is fine because

heat does not enter the blood nor organs, just on their channels.

After the headache, the patient feels fatigue because his body had

used so much energy to unblock all the channels as it could and there

is hardly left for normal physical activity. Tremors on hands and feet

because of extreme heat causes wind " interior wind " . Extreme heat

usually produces wind, this wind can be seen at the end for fire "

extremities " . Frequent thirst from dehydrated , desired for cold

drinks is from internal heat.

The Heart channel starts from chest " Heart " descends to the

abdomen and connects with the intestine. From the chest, another part

ascends along the esophagus and up and connects with the eyes, from

the eyes they connect to the brain. From the chest the middle part

goes to the Lungs and then turns down and emerges from the axilla.

From there it goes along the posterior of the upper arm and down to a

little finger.

Excess FIRE ascends, can cause dryness, dry skin or even dry the

body fluids and thicken them into phlegm obstructing all kinds of

orifices ( eyes, ears, noses, mouth, skin, waste ways ). Smoking may

make these condition worse once it has started.

The eye pain may relate to the Heart channel " interior pathway " ,

but to have your patient check with his family MD to eliminate the

glaucoma immediately, be sure to note this in your file. REMEMBER :

The SI also goes to the infraorbital region " inside and behind the

eye " . Will this give you a clue of eye pain? FIRE expands, so the

feeling like thrusting out from inside, the worse is depending how

much the fire is, the expansion.

Scallop tongue and cracks , to me, means nothing. Some of us may

think dryness cause cracks, scallop is deficient SP-ST. If digestion

is fine, no constipation nor diarrhea, I think this could be

congenital constitution. But dryness may be from smoking, medication,

or from dehydrated. PURPLISH means not enough oxgen somewhere in the

body and blood is stagnated.

 

MY CONCLUSION FOR THIS TREATMENT : Remove Qi Stagnation, remove heat,

regulate Qi, tonify Yin ( if deficiendy ) and finally tonify Qi.

 

 

GUYS, HELP ME to help our friend here. I may have had left

something out.

 

ACU Rx :

First , I choose GB 41 = eleminate Li-GB fire. If this helps, no more

pts are given.

If this does not help, I choose additional pt , S36 = tonify Qi , so

it gets stronger and I can easily regulate excess Qi.

 

Other TCMs may do the following :

Du14 = eliminate ( internal heat ), GB 20 = wind heat in the

channel or interior wind.

LI 4 , LI 11 = Yangming heat . Liv 2 = Liv fire.. .. PLUS

LOCAL PTS...

GB 44 = acute GB channel.

 

HERBAL FORMULA :

I love LONG DAN XIE GAN TANG in this case with high dose in the

morning, BA ZHEN WAN " Qi and blood tonic " high dose in the

afternoon. This combination for 3 days should be OK.

 

 

Other TCMs may use to suppress Fire by ZHI BA DI HUANG WAN and

PHLEGM " ER CHEN WAN " ……….

 

Any help from one of us would be appreciated here. This is only what I

see. Others may have different views and different experience. More

brain is better than one.

 

PLEASE PICK YOUR CHOICE.

 

 

GOOD LUCK !!!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Try drink one litre of water within 30 minutes as soon as you wake up. Make sure

its a good healthy water. It should be luke warm when you drink it. NOT cold.

This will affect the brain and headaches in a good way. I got this advice from a

holistic doctor in Germany and it was right for me. I drink another litre later

on the day.

 

The sinuses can also be a source of headache. Boil 2 deciliter of water (no

chlorine etc!) together with the salt for a moment, then let cool. Lay flat on

your back across the bed, with the head hanging over the edge of the bed. Now

pour the saline mixture of water into your nose. In this position, the mixture

will reach the sinuses much better. Remain in this position and move your head

from side to side for a few minutes. Then let it out. If after a few days you

smell something rotten, then you have what I had. Chronic infection with

inflammation that I didnt think much of. I treated it with a mixture of herbal

teas (dont know their names in english) in a saline solution that I poured into

the sinuses morning and evening in the way described. Large masses of yellow

snot kept coming out for about a week. Then the nose was clear and my head much

better.

 

If you dont have amalgam in your teeth you can also try the following.

 

Take 20 mg of DMSA powder on the tounge and let it melt. It tastes a little

sour. Wait for an hour, then take 30mg, then wait for 2.5 hours then take

another 30mg.

 

Did this do anything for you? If yes, your question is why. DMSA is one of the

worlds strongest antioxidants and also a chelator of heavy metals. Did it

neutralize something that causes the headache?

 

Make sure you tolerate DMSA by taking only a few grains the first time.

 

 

I have used this info on my own risk. You have to do the same!

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

hawk4796 <groundhawk2

 

Tue, March 23, 2010 1:49:50 PM

Cluster headaches

 

Can anyone tell me what I can take for cluster headaches,they can be very

painful. Thanks

 

 

 

---

 

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