Guest guest Posted December 9, 2001 Report Share Posted December 9, 2001 , " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a couple of questions regarding formulas which are > contraindicated during pregnancy: a) are the contraindications mainly > based on CM theory/logic or actual clinical evidence? I think these are based on observation, because not all blood movers have this contraindication. If > contraindications are based on empirical observation, is there a > critical period in which miscarriage is more likely to occur than at > other stages of pregnancy at higher or lower herb/s dosage? For > example, would 9 gr of tao ren on the second or third trimester be as > dangerous as the same dosage on the first trimester? I think most of these herbs induce uterine contractions, thus would be dangerous at any stage. > > b)Is there any data available on tetragenic properties of herbs > contraindicated during pregnancy or any historical incident such as > that of Thalidomide in the late fifties? I am not aware that any are teratogenic or that there is any evidence of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 Most contraindications are only warnings.. No set rules.. I.e. you mention tao ren... tao he cheng qi tang CAN be used during pregnancy (and is, even in late stages) if the pattern presents (although Bensky says C.I. for preg.)!! This is the important thing to understand, there are few actual contraindications, just cautions... and for the average herbal practitioner, I would advice not deviating too far the C.I.'s. - > > fbernall [fbernall] > Sunday, December 09, 2001 8:37 AM > > Miscarriage > > Hello all, > > I have a couple of questions regarding formulas which are > contraindicated during pregnancy: a) are the contraindications mainly > based on CM theory/logic or actual clinical evidence? If > contraindications are based on empirical observation, is there a > critical period in which miscarriage is more likely to occur than at > other stages of pregnancy at higher or lower herb/s dosage? For > example, would 9 gr of tao ren on the second or third trimester be as > dangerous as the same dosage on the first trimester? > > b)Is there any data available on tetragenic properties of herbs > contraindicated during pregnancy or any historical incident such as > that of Thalidomide in the late fifties? > > > Fernando > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 Fernando, As a CM gynecological specialist with 22 years clinical experience, I'd like to say something about medicinal " prohibitions " during pregnancy. These prohibitions appear to be couched in unambiguous, universal terms, i.e., " prohibited. " However, as one of my teachers once said way back when (when I didn't really understand what he was saying), for him at his stage of practice, there were no " prohibited points. " (He was an acupuncturist.) What I'm getting at here is that these prohibitions are really only warnings to the uninitiated. Medicinals which are " prohibited during pregnancy " are routinely and even necessarily used in the remedial treatment of real-life pregnant women AS LONG AS THEIR USE IS WARRANTED BY A COMBINATION OF THE DISEASE & PATTERN. In fact, in many cases, unless one uses a " prohibted " medicinal (or prohibited point), one cannot get the correct result. That failure very failure to use a so-called prohibited medicinal may, ironically, result in failure to stem a spontaneous abortion. For instance, blood stasis is one of the potential causes of a spontaneous abortion. In that case, one MUST quicken the blood and transform or dispel stasis in order to stem the abortion. However, a number of the meds used to quicken the blood and dispel stasis are " prohibited during pregnancy. " Therefore, many uninitiated may hesitate to use such meds, thinking that they will only make the situation worse, when, in fact, those very meds are the solution to the problem. What this really means is that these meds UNWARRANTED use is prohibited. However, those that truly know when they are indicated during pregnancy can and do use them safely, even necessarily. This underscores the necessity of competent training in such specialties as gynecology. If one studies with and practices under someone who is well trained in CM gynecology, then you learn what these " prohibitions " really mean in real-life practice as opposed to how they appear on the printed page. This is an extremely important and commonly misunderstood point here in the West. Since I am personally responsible for some of this misunderstanding through my early, premature writings (viz. the earliest incarnations of Path of Pregnancy), I wanted to take this opportunity to set the record straight. I don't know if this helps you, Fernando, or not, but it's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a long time. Bob -- In , " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a couple of questions regarding formulas which are > contraindicated during pregnancy: a) are the contraindications mainly > based on CM theory/logic or actual clinical evidence? If > contraindications are based on empirical observation, is there a > critical period in which miscarriage is more likely to occur than at > other stages of pregnancy at higher or lower herb/s dosage? For > example, would 9 gr of tao ren on the second or third trimester be as > dangerous as the same dosage on the first trimester? > > b)Is there any data available on tetragenic properties of herbs > contraindicated during pregnancy or any historical incident such as > that of Thalidomide in the late fifties? > > > Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 I have also seen these herbs used commonly on pregnant women. Also, if any of you have ever tried to cause an abortion with these types of herbs, it does not work on a healthy women. Alon - pemachophel2001 Monday, December 10, 2001 3:05 PM Re: Miscarriage Fernando,As a CM gynecological specialist with 22 years clinical experience, I'd like to say something about medicinal "prohibitions" during pregnancy. These prohibitions appear to be couched in unambiguous, universal terms, i.e., "prohibited." However, as one of my teachers once said way back when (when I didn't really understand what he was saying), for him at his stage of practice, there were no "prohibited points." (He was an acupuncturist.) What I'm getting at here is that these prohibitions are really only warnings to the uninitiated. Medicinals which are "prohibited during pregnancy" are routinely and even necessarily used in the remedial treatment of real-life pregnant women AS LONG AS THEIR USE IS WARRANTED BY A COMBINATION OF THE DISEASE & PATTERN. In fact, in many cases, unless one uses a "prohibted" medicinal (or prohibited point), one cannot get the correct result. That failure very failure to use a so-called prohibited medicinal may, ironically, result in failure to stem a spontaneous abortion.For instance, blood stasis is one of the potential causes of a spontaneous abortion. In that case, one MUST quicken the blood and transform or dispel stasis in order to stem the abortion. However, a number of the meds used to quicken the blood and dispel stasis are "prohibited during pregnancy." Therefore, many uninitiated may hesitate to use such meds, thinking that they will only make the situation worse, when, in fact, those very meds are the solution to the problem. What this really means is that these meds UNWARRANTED use is prohibited. However, those that truly know when they are indicated during pregnancy can and do use them safely, even necessarily. This underscores the necessity of competent training in such specialties as gynecology. If one studies with and practices under someone who is well trained in CM gynecology, then you learn what these "prohibitions" really mean in real-life practice as opposed to how they appear on the printed page.This is an extremely important and commonly misunderstood point here in the West. Since I am personally responsible for some of this misunderstanding through my early, premature writings (viz. the earliest incarnations of Path of Pregnancy), I wanted to take this opportunity to set the record straight. I don't know if this helps you, Fernando, or not, but it's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a long time.Bob -- In , "fbernall" <fbernall@a...> wrote:> Hello all,> > I have a couple of questions regarding formulas which are > contraindicated during pregnancy: a) are the contraindications mainly > based on CM theory/logic or actual clinical evidence? If > contraindications are based on empirical observation, is there a > critical period in which miscarriage is more likely to occur than at > other stages of pregnancy at higher or lower herb/s dosage? For > example, would 9 gr of tao ren on the second or third trimester be as > dangerous as the same dosage on the first trimester?> > b)Is there any data available on tetragenic properties of herbs > contraindicated during pregnancy or any historical incident such as > that of Thalidomide in the late fifties?> > > FernandoChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 , " pemachophel2001 " < This underscores the necessity of competent training in > such specialties as gynecology. If one studies with and practices > under someone who is well trained in CM gynecology, then you learn > what these " prohibitions " really mean in real-life practice as > opposed to how they appear on the printed page. this is what I tell my herb students. I go a little further and say that unless one has advanced training in TCM obstetrics, one should just not treat pregnant women. the risks are great and the repercussions even worse. there is a reason that an OB MD pays literally 100 times more for his malpractice insurance than I do. there is certainly a safe way to go about this, but you do not learn it in basic TCM training or on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > Fernando, > This is an extremely important and commonly misunderstood point here > in the West. Since I am personally responsible for some of this > misunderstanding through my early, premature writings (viz. the > earliest incarnations of Path of Pregnancy), I wanted to take this > opportunity to set the record straight. I don't know if this helps > you, Fernando, or not, but it's something I've wanted to get off my > chest for a long time. > > Bob > Bob, this helps a great deal. Thanks for the lesson! Fernando > -- In , " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I have a couple of questions regarding formulas which are > > contraindicated during pregnancy: a) are the contraindications > mainly > > based on CM theory/logic or actual clinical evidence? If > > contraindications are based on empirical observation, is there a > > critical period in which miscarriage is more likely to occur than at > > other stages of pregnancy at higher or lower herb/s dosage? For > > example, would 9 gr of tao ren on the second or third trimester be > as > > dangerous as the same dosage on the first trimester? > > > > b)Is there any data available on tetragenic properties of herbs > > contraindicated during pregnancy or any historical incident such as > > that of Thalidomide in the late fifties? > > > > > > Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 I must agree with Bob, that when it is necessary to use blood moving herbs, it does not mean any danger to the fetus. I treated a 42 two year old women through her pregnancy with mainly phlegm transfroming and blood moving herbs, when during her third month of pregnancy, a malignant growth adjacent to the uterus with lymphnode involvement was diagnosed. Doctors suggested a hysterectomie and chemo-therapie straight away. The patient declined and choose treatment by chinese herbs. She gave birth to a healthy boy 6 months later. The growth had disappeared, the lymphnodes were clear. She has just given birth to her second child. Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2001 Report Share Posted December 14, 2001 An amazing case! But in America, risky for legal reasons. On Friday, December 14, 2001, at 07:06 AM, BKirschb wrote: > I must agree with Bob, that when it is necessary to use blood moving > herbs, > it does not mean any danger to the fetus. I treated a 42 two year old > women > through her pregnancy with mainly phlegm transfroming and blood moving > herbs, > when during her third month of pregnancy, a malignant growth adjacent > to the > uterus with lymphnode involvement was diagnosed. Doctors suggested a > hysterectomie and chemo-therapie straight away. The patient declined and > choose treatment by chinese herbs. She gave birth to a healthy boy 6 > months > later. The growth had disappeared, the lymphnodes were clear. She has > just > given birth to her second child. > > Barbara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Hi Gary, check out Doc's article on How to have a healthy baby - it's in the files love Lisa - gazbow27 herbal remedies Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:00 PM Herbal Remedies - Miscarriage My partner has just suffered her second consecutive miscarriage. She is 34, and we are trying for our first baby; we will now put off trying for a baby until next year. I would like to know if their are any herbal remedies she can take which may help her to avoid/or reduce the risk of miscarriage. There are no problems in conceiving, unfortunately she loses the baby in the first four/five weeks. Any advice will be most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 I want to speak from personal experiance. I myself have had 13 early term miscarriages. Losing the baby at the time is because of hormonal imbalences. The balancing formulas are one idea, but I would also highly recommend a cleanse. Also with a hormonal imbalence, and this is really the most important thing that I cannot stress enough, the problem is with the estogen in foods. That means NO absoulutely NO milk or meat that is not organic. Two miscarriages ago I did a cleanse, and then after my last miscarriage I switched to organic, raw milk. I don't know if she charts her temps with the family planning method, but I would highly recommend it. Anyway, as soon as I switched to the organic raw milk I noticed an immediate jump in temps which means a drop in estrogen. It took me two weeks for my temps to level out, but I immediately ovulated and conceived. It has made a huge differance for me. Ramona Quoting gazbow27 <gazbow27: > My partner has just suffered her second consecutive miscarriage. She > is 34, and we are trying for our first baby; we will now put off > trying for a baby until next year. I would like to know if their are > any herbal remedies she can take which may help her to avoid/or reduce > the risk of miscarriage. There are no problems in conceiving, > unfortunately she loses the baby in the first four/five weeks. Any > advice will be most welcome. > > Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Please advise; A friend of mind had a miscarriage. She was approx 8 weeks along in her pregnancy. Mentally/ Emotionally she is doing alright. I suggested 200c ignatia. Her concern is that her HGC level are still elevated and it is taking a very long time to shed the endometrial tissue from her uterus. She has been having light bleeding and cramping for seven days. Her OBGYN is encouraging her to get a D & C. My Mind goes to sepia, but I am not sure. Any suggestions are welcome. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Pamella! Viburnum Prunifolium Q, 20 drops in 1/2 cup of water to be taken 3 hrly. I hope she'll save, what she is going to lose. Dr. --- On Sun, 10/4/09, ddbphoebe <pamela811 wrote: ddbphoebe <pamela811 Miscarriage Sunday, October 4, 2009, 10:47 AM Please advise; A friend of mind had a miscarriage. She was approx 8 weeks along in her pregnancy. Mentally/ Emotionally she is doing alright. I suggested 200c ignatia. Her concern is that her HGC level are still elevated and it is taking a very long time to shed the endometrial tissue from her uterus. She has been having light bleeding and cramping for seven days. Her OBGYN is encouraging her to get a D & C. My Mind goes to sepia, but I am not sure. Any suggestions are welcome. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 A D & C would probably be best as it would ensure all the tissue has been evacuated. Any residual might cause greater problems later on. medusa ddbphoebe wrote: > Please advise; A friend of mind had a miscarriage. She was approx 8 > weeks along in her pregnancy. Mentally/ Emotionally she is doing > alright. I suggested 200c ignatia. Her concern is that her HGC level > are still elevated and it is taking a very long time to shed the > endometrial tissue from her uterus. She has been having light > bleeding and cramping for seven days. Her OBGYN is encouraging her to > get a D & C. My Mind goes to sepia, but I am not sure. Any suggestions > are welcome. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 One of the gentlest, safest, and most effective ways to balance the hormone system is Reflexology. The latest book of the brilliant Kunz couple is their best yet, anyone can learn from it. The title is Reflexology for Life. Nothing works for everyone, but I have seen this humble healing art do wonders. Visit http://reflexology-research.com Ien in the Kootenays http://freegreenliving.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Ignatia was a good start in the situation. Sepia maybe.. more information is really needed. Let me know on email. Liz , " ddbphoebe " <pamela811 wrote: > > Please advise; > A friend of mind had a miscarriage. She was approx 8 weeks along in her pregnancy. Mentally/ Emotionally she is doing alright. I suggested 200c ignatia. Her concern is that her HGC level are still elevated and it is taking a very long time to shed the endometrial tissue from her uterus. She has been having light bleeding and cramping for seven days. Her OBGYN is encouraging her to get a D & C. My Mind goes to sepia, but I am not sure. Any suggestions are welcome. > Thank You > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I wasn't originally planning on responding here because it's a sensitive subject: however, I went through something very similar several years ago. My ob/gyn had said that this particular pregnancy (I was being monitored closely due to two prior miscarriages) and they knew it wasn't viable early on - with the numbers not doubling up every couple days. Regardless, what happened is that they did state a D & C was best and I wound up going through the procedure and they sent some tissue to the lab. A couple days later they feared that they didn't get it all and that I may need to take a pill (which was some form of radiation) to ensure that all was cleared.and they said that more than likely it was an ectopic pregnancy and that's why it wasn't all evacuated. In my case, the extra day or two (to retest) wound up ok so I didn't have to take that pill - which I didn't want to do at all.so I guess what I'm saying is that yes, you just may need to consider that it was an ectopic pregnancy and further action may need to be taken. Lisa _____ On Behalf Of medusa569 Monday, October 05, 2009 9:00 AM Re: Miscarriage A D & C would probably be best as it would ensure all the tissue has been evacuated. Any residual might cause greater problems later on. medusa ddbphoebe wrote: > Please advise; A friend of mind had a miscarriage. She was approx 8 > weeks along in her pregnancy. Mentally/ Emotionally she is doing > alright. I suggested 200c ignatia. Her concern is that her HGC level > are still elevated and it is taking a very long time to shed the > endometrial tissue from her uterus. She has been having light > bleeding and cramping for seven days. Her OBGYN is encouraging her to > get a D & C. My Mind goes to sepia, but I am not sure. Any suggestions > are welcome. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.