The Psychs and the Pharmaceuticals - In Bed Together and Guilty as Hell

[Guest guest]

Saturday, January 08, 2005 commentary:

 

 

Eli Lilly knew Prozac had 1200% higher suicide rate than other antidepressants

It's yet another example of the widespread negligent actions committed by Big Pharma in the quest for profits. It's not just Vioxx, Bextra or Celebrex. Now the truth is finally starting to come out on antidepressant drugs like Prozac.

 

 

 

 

 

And what is the truth? That drug makers like Eli Lilly not only knew their star drugs were more dangerous than alternatives, but that they actively sought to suppress the release of that information in order to protect profits. What we are witnessing today is the beginning of the end of an era: the days of the Big Pharma con in which direct-to-consumer advertising pushed a drug industry to unprecedented levels of corporate greed. Of course, Eli Lilly denies everything. It's the same story talking to Merck. All these companies claim to be actually protecting the public health and working for the common good. Yet they continue to sell drugs with questionable safety records that are only now coming to light. And in none of these cases did these companies produce these documents on their own. In every case, they were "caught" by other people or organizations such as the British Medical Journal, which has gone public with these documents on Prozac. If all this sounds familiar, it is: Big Tobacco used the same stonewalling efforts in its ongoing denials that cigarettes were harmful to health (or even addictive, if you can believe that). Today, Big Pharma looks a whole lot like Big Tobacco: corporate greed, massive cover-ups, and hundreds of thousands of people dying each year from the use of their products. One more thing: there are still tens of thousands of brainwashed physicians willing to prescribe all these dangerous drugs to you. And if the brainwashing wasn't enough, the kickbacks certainly are. Recommended reading: "On the Take" by Jerome Kassirer, M.D. If you want to know the truth about how drug companies literally bribe doctors into peddling their drugs, read this book. It's authored by the former editor-in-chief of the British Medical Journal. Finally, I want to mention that I warned people about the suicide risk of Prozac back in 1998. Back then, the idea that antidepressant drugs could cause suicides was considered ludicrous. It was fringe information, almost conspiracy theory stuff. Today, we're learning it's 100% true. And if you don't believe me, just ask the parents of all the children killed at the Colombine high school massacre in Colorado: their killers were on antidepressant drugs. Getting the picture yet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See more articles on:ProzacEli Lillysuicide

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An internal document purportedly from Eli Lilly and Co. made public Monday appears to show that the drug maker had data more than 15 years ago showing that patients on its antidepressant Prozac were far more likely to attempt suicide and show hostility than were patients on other antidepressants and that the company attempted to minimize public awareness of the side effects. The document was provided to CNN by the office of Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-New York, who has called for tightening FDA regulations on drug safety. "The case demonstrates the need for Congress to mandate the complete disclosure of all clinical studies for FDA-approved drugs so that patients and their doctors, not the drug companies, decide whether the benefits of taking a certain medicine outweigh the risks," he said. The 1988 document indicated that 3.7 percent of patients attempted suicide while on the blockbuster drug, a rate more than 12 times that cited for any of four other commonly used antidepressants. The document, which cited clinical trials of 14,198 patients on fluoxetine -- the generic name for Prozac -- also stated that 2.3 percent of users suffered psychotic depression while on the drug, more than double the next-highest rate of patients using another antidepressant. In the paper, titled "Activation and sedation in fluoxetine clinical trials," the authors said that the drug may produce nervousness, anxiety, agitation or insomnia in 19 percent of patients, and sedation in 13 percent of patients. Its editors said the documents had been reported missing from a 10-year-old murder case, and that they had sent them to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for review. A spokesman for Lilly said his company was expecting the release of the purported internal documents, but that he could not comment on them until he had seen them.

 

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/01/03/prozac.documents/

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-447-5282Doc

[Guest guest]

Okay..here is my big question then.

 

If the pharmacuetical companies (yes I used to work for one.... and

have many scientist friends who still do)do research on drugs, spend

millions of dollars of investment towards research, pass clinical

trials, get approved by the FDA...than what in the world would happen

if we did the same with herbs? The scientists I know and love do

honest work. I'm sure some of the studies that aren't disclosed have

more to do with higher up in the comporate ladder. That is such a

shame because it disvalues the science that goes into a lot of hard

working people's work.

 

I honestly believe that if were were to look at many of the herbs on

the market today and use the *isolated* compounds from such herbs

(yes more on that later), we would find many disturbing results based

on these analysis. In fact, there have been studies that came out

regarding the safety of comfrey when ingested internally and I STILL

have countless people I know into herbs that dismiss such research.

They think that it is all slanted and just anti-herb. But yet similar

research on pharma drugs are making people jump up and down and

panic.

 

In order for our drugs (talking pharmaceutical drugs here) to be

completely safety tested without any company bias happening is for

the FDA to appoint its own testing facility in which new drugs that

are waiting to go to market can be independently analyzed. (rather

than the company that has invested millions already to study it) I

also think that we need similar research for herbal safety in this

country.

 

That said about herb safety, however, I don't feel that just

isolating independent compounds is the only way to go. As many know

here, it isn't individual compounds, but all of them working together

that give us the magic and healing ability of the plant.

 

But I am simply not anti-pharmacuetical. Pharmacueticals have saved

my life before. I just am not into the bad-pharma, perfect-herbs

mindset that is so much preached these days. Herbs are grand, but to

be respected as medicine as well. They too have their issues.

 

Doc, I completely understand your last post and agree that it is

WRONG for companies to hide research regarding safety but it is just

as wrong that our government still believes that safety review

shouldn't require some independent safety evaluations as well. It is

a complete shame.

 

Jenn

[Guest guest]

The pharmaceutical companies don't make money unless they have a

patent protected product. Their profits impact the medical industry

and the profitability of this country. They don't want us to know

that one teaspoon of a herb in tincture form will cure what ailes us

because they can't patent or protect that knowledge.

 

If the pharmaceutical companies don't make a profit, they can't pay

for the research after the fact. Also, they can't really regulate

what we grow and harvest. Think of having the same anxiety of

sheltering basil and thyme under a grow lamp in your basement closet

like the pot growers do. Think of having to pay exhorbitant doctors

fees and pharmacy costs to get the same quantity and quality of bulk

herbs you can find on the Internet to make the Total Nutrition

Formula or anything else. It would be astrononical in price.

 

What is being practiced on this forum is the sharing of knowledge

that used to be passed down from Mother to daughter. We've lost a

lot of that wisdom in this country. I know that I don't need

antibiotics to cure pneumonia (I've experienced that cure quickly

with whole food supplements and the guidance of my nutritionist).

However, if my self-healing methods don't work I'll be grateful for

the medical community and pharmaceutical companies that have

something that might save my life. That said, it my humble opinion

too many people don't take care of themselves because they know

regardless of how badly they abuse their bodies there is a doctor

and their insurance plan to keep them able to walk so they can make

one more trip to the store to buy cigarettes, trans-fat-laden chips,

and beer. The people truly interested in herbal medicine and taking

the steps to prepare healthy food for their families is still in the

minority in this country. (IMO)

 

Karen

 

 

herbal remedies , " Jenn " <Oscianna7>

> Okay..here is my big question then.

<snip>

> If the pharmacuetical companies (yes I used to work for one....

and

> have many scientist friends who still do)do research on drugs,

spend

> millions of dollars of investment towards research, pass clinical

> trials, get approved by the FDA...than what in the world would

happen

> if we did the same with herbs?

<snip>

[Guest guest]

Hey jenn,,I agree with you on the drug companys,we hear one side of the story ,people seem to focus on the negitive,Thank god for their R & D or my mom would not be here today.Thank your friends for me.P.S i havnt been to a Dr. for 10 years but some need these drugs to live,,,Thanks,,,,RoyRoy Ames Jr------------>>>

Mail - You care about security. So do we.

[Guest guest]

> The pharmaceutical companies don't make money unless they have a

> patent protected product. Their profits impact the medical industry

> and the profitability of this country. They don't want us to know

> that one teaspoon of a herb in tincture form will cure what ailes

us

> because they can't patent or protect that knowledge.

>

**Hi Karen,

 

I completely understand this issue to the core *smiles* and I agree

with you completely.

 

The way I see it is that we do need pharmacueticals. We need them for

those times when herbs aren't strong enough. All I was pointing out

is that they aren't always the evil corporate giants that many people

make them out to be. I was just saying that friends of mine, and

family, who work for one such company are very passionate about their

work. They are good people. They also feel that herbs are to be

highly respected as well.

 

Like you said, the study and medicine of herbs should not be patented

and should be available to all...as it currently is. I am just

calling for more studies supporting herbs as healers and also studies

that can enlighten us a bit regarding safety & efficacy. So many

people don't tell their docs that they are taking herbs while they

are on pharma meds because they don't consider them medicine. Herb-

pharma drug interactions happen. We all know how powerful they can

be.

 

I support good science. Herbs have been used for thousands of years.

Some say they have the longest track record for clinical studies

(they do). But that doesn't tell me that just because it has been

used for a thousand years that it is harmless. The life expectancy

used to be 30 years old so long term effects weren't documented.

Just now we are seeing more and more double blind studies coming out

supporting (and sometimes debunking) folk uses of herbs throughout

time. It is wonderful.

 

My entire post here is completely sincere (if only you could hear me

*smiles*). I contemplate these things all of the time!

 

Love and Light

Jenn

[Guest guest]

Jenn,

 

I undestand and don't disagree with what you are saying Jenn. It's

business and no evil plot by the good people who are trying to come

up with useful cures. <G> I wouldn't want to not have access to

mainstream medicine.

 

I think, however, it is less likely that extensive testing on herbs

(natural formulas) will occur without it leading to dramatic changes

in availability and the way the FDA categorizes and approves these

processed herbs. Business and money are powerful motivators. Take

stevia for example. The FDA does not categorize stevia has GRAS

(Generally recognized as safe). We know it's safe (natural, few

calories, and the whole leaf has many benefits for the body). It is

used in 50% of the Japanese sweetener market (they banned

aspartame), and is used world wide. But for the FDA to categorize

stevia as a " food " and not a supplement, would interfere with the

sugar lobby to say nothing of the companies who have invested

heavily in really scary formulas such as NutriSweet. I have a

difficult time reconciling many of the decisions of the good people

at the FDA. It seems that they come under alot of political

pressure and I'd just as soon stay under their radar, which is

already pointed at the natural health industry.

 

Karen

 

 

herbal remedies , " Jenn " <Oscianna7>

wrote:

>

>

>

> > The pharmaceutical companies don't make money unless they have a

> > patent protected product. Their profits impact the medical

industry

> > and the profitability of this country. They don't want us to

know

> > that one teaspoon of a herb in tincture form will cure what

ailes

> us

> > because they can't patent or protect that knowledge.

> >

> **Hi Karen,

>

> I completely understand this issue to the core *smiles* and I

agree

> with you completely.

>

> The way I see it is that we do need pharmacueticals. We need them

for

> those times when herbs aren't strong enough. All I was pointing

out

> is that they aren't always the evil corporate giants that many

people

> make them out to be. I was just saying that friends of mine, and

> family, who work for one such company are very passionate about

their

> work. They are good people. They also feel that herbs are to be

> highly respected as well.

>

> Like you said, the study and medicine of herbs should not be

patented

> and should be available to all...as it currently is. I am just

> calling for more studies supporting herbs as healers and also

studies

> that can enlighten us a bit regarding safety & efficacy. So many

> people don't tell their docs that they are taking herbs while they

> are on pharma meds because they don't consider them medicine. Herb-

> pharma drug interactions happen. We all know how powerful they

can

> be.

>

> I support good science. Herbs have been used for thousands of

years.

> Some say they have the longest track record for clinical studies

> (they do). But that doesn't tell me that just because it has been

> used for a thousand years that it is harmless. The life

expectancy

> used to be 30 years old so long term effects weren't documented.

> Just now we are seeing more and more double blind studies coming

out

> supporting (and sometimes debunking) folk uses of herbs

throughout

> time. It is wonderful.

>

> My entire post here is completely sincere (if only you could hear

me

> *smiles*). I contemplate these things all of the time!

>

> Love and Light

> Jenn

[Guest guest]

Very beautifully said, Karen!

 

Best,

Kelli

 

|

| zengirl04 [zengirl04]

| Saturday, January 08, 2005 3:06 PM

| herbal remedies

| Herbal Remedies - Re: The Psychs and the

| Pharmaceuticals - In Bed Together and Guilty as Hell

|

| The pharmaceutical companies don't make money unless they have a

| patent protected product. Their profits impact the medical industry

| and the profitability of this country. They don't want us to know

| that one teaspoon of a herb in tincture form will cure what ailes us

| because they can't patent or protect that knowledge.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jenn,

 

Welllllll, it seems as if this debate raises its ugly head about once a year and I guess this is this years installment.

 

Honestly, I don't have the time to argue the case any more.

 

Let me wrap the whole thing up in one word, "Responsibility". You are either "FULLY RESPONSIBLE" for yourself, or you are not.

 

If you wish to place the responsibility of your health and the health of your friends and loved ones into the hands of the FDA, the Pharmaceuticals and the Government, you have the Freedom to make this choice. You have this right.

 

I'd never make that choice ,under any circumstances, and that is my choice and right.

 

Being the owner of this list, I also have the right to tolerate (or not) certain viewpoints having to do with the running of the list and what gets promoted here. Over the next couple of days, I'll be writing a new policy that covers the promotion of Pharmaceuticals. This of course will be attacked as being undemocratic, unpopular, and very unfair. Welllllllll so be it. I'm here to truly help people, and to help them to help themselves. I do not believe people should be slaves

[Guest guest]

AMEN!!! I second that emotion!!! J

 

 

 

 

 

Lori [tootstl]

Tuesday, January 11, 2005

8:14 PM

herbal remedies

Herbal Remedies - Re: The

Psychs and the Pharmaceuticals - In Bed Together and Guilty as Hell

 

 

 

 

APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE!!! I knew I

joined this forum for a

reason! Warm regards, Lori

 

 

herbal remedies , " Dr. Ian

Shillington "

<DocShillington@K...> wrote:

> Dear Jenn,

>

> Welllllll, it seems as if this debate raises

its ugly head about

once a year and I guess this is this years

installment.

>

> Honestly, I don't have the time to argue the

case any more.

>

> Let me wrap the whole thing up in one word,

" Responsibility " . You

are either " FULLY RESPONSIBLE " for

yourself, or you are not.

>

> If you wish to place the responsibility of

your health and the

health of your friends and loved ones into the

hands of the FDA, the

Pharmaceuticals and the Government, you have the

Freedom to make this

choice. You have this right.

>

> I'd never make that choice ,under any

circumstances, and that is my

choice and right.

>

> Being the owner of this list, I also have the

right to tolerate (or

not) certain viewpoints having to do with the

running of the list and

what gets promoted here. Over the next

couple of days, I'll be

writing a new policy that covers the promotion of

Pharmaceuticals.

This of course will be attacked as being

undemocratic, unpopular, and

very unfair. Welllllllll so be it. I'm

here to truly help people,

and to help them to help themselves. I do

not believe people should

be slaves.

>

> Let me make myself perfectly clear

here. I have absolutely NO use

for Pharmaceutical Companies in this day and

age. NONE!!! Whatever

use they had was destroyed almost a century ago

when they

monopolized. For the nonce, I'll tolerate

emergency medical

procedure only, but until the Pharmas are

corrected, they are the

enemy.

>

> Is the above arguement complete? Absolutely

not!

> Have I included all data in this

debate? No way! And I have no

interest in doing so.

>

> As far as I'm concerned, the praising of

Pharmaceutical Companies

and any promotion of them is OT = Off Topic for

this list.

>

> Doc

>

> Ian

" Doc " Shillington

N.D.

> 727-447-5282

> Doc@A...

> -

> Jenn

> To:

herbal remedies

> Saturday, January 08, 2005

4:10 PM

> Herbal Remedies - Re:

The Psychs and the

Pharmaceuticals - In Bed Together and Guilty as

Hell

>

>

>

>

> Okay..here is my big question

then.

>

> If the pharmacuetical companies

(yes I used to work for one....

and

> have many scientist friends who

still do)do research on drugs,

spend

> millions of dollars of investment

towards research, pass clinical

> trials, get approved by the

FDA...than what in the world would

happen

> if we did the same with herbs?

The scientists I know and love do

> honest work. I'm sure some of the

studies that aren't disclosed

have

> more to do with higher up in the

comporate ladder. That is such a

> shame because it disvalues the

science that goes into a lot of

hard

> working people's work.

>

> I honestly believe that if were

were to look at many of the herbs

on

> the market today and use the

*isolated* compounds from such herbs

> (yes more on that later), we

would find many disturbing results

based

> on these analysis. In fact,

there have been studies that came

out

> regarding the safety of comfrey

when ingested internally and I

STILL

> have countless people I know into

herbs that dismiss such

research.

> They think that it is all slanted

and just anti-herb. But yet

similar

> research on pharma drugs are

making people jump up and down and

> panic.

>

> In order for our drugs (talking

pharmaceutical drugs here) to be

> completely safety tested without

any company bias happening is

for

> the FDA to appoint its own

testing facility in which new drugs

that

> are waiting to go to market can

be independently analyzed.

(rather

> than the company that has

invested millions already to study it)

I

> also think that we need similar

research for herbal safety in

this

> country.

>

> That said about herb safety,

however, I don't feel that just

> isolating independent compounds

is the only way to go. As many

know

> here, it isn't individual

compounds, but all of them working

together

> that give us the magic and

healing ability of the plant.

>

> But I am simply not

anti-pharmacuetical. Pharmacueticals have

saved

> my life before. I just am

not into the bad-pharma, perfect-herbs

> mindset that is so much preached

these days. Herbs are grand, but

to

> be respected as medicine as well.

They too have their issues.

>

> Doc, I completely understand your

last post and agree that it is

> WRONG for companies to hide

research regarding safety but it is

just

> as wrong that our government

still believes that safety review

> shouldn't require some

independent safety evaluations as well.

It is

> a complete shame.

>

> Jenn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Federal Law

requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician

before using any natural remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be

your own physician and to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are

welcome to post here as long as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are

exactly that, and any person

following the advice of anyone posting here does

so at their own risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By

accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold

the List Owner and members free of any liability.

 

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington