Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 I would really appreciate some feedback or opinions about this article or theory please? blessings Shan CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM http://www.ithyroid.com/ca_and_mg.htm Calcium and magnesium are extremely important minerals that are often out of balance in persons with thyroid disease. Imbalances of these minerals can result in very rapid heart rate, low heart rate, and irregular heart rate. Thyroid function itself is most likely controlled by the ratio of these minerals. Most people with thyroid disease find that they have to supplement calcium and magnesium. Supplementing these minerals in the correct ratio can make a huge improvement in the symptoms. However, supplementing them in the wrong ratio can make symptoms worse. To further complicate the situation, the correct ratio of cal/mag changes as you recover from thyroid disease. I have struggled a very long time with finding the right cal/mag ratio for myself. Well after recovering from hyperthyroidism, swinging back hypo, and then getting normal again, I had many months of fast, irregular heart rate that was often initiated by strenuous exercise. Because magnesium had been an important factor in reducing my heart rate when I was hyper, I would take a cal/mag supplement in a 1:1 ratio or take 400-800 mgs of magnesium only to correct this problem. Usually I would have this irregular heart rate throughout the night but would be recovered by morning. I experimented with potassium and found that taking 800-1200 mgs of potassium before my night time basketball often prevented the irregular heart rate and began thinking that I was potassium deficient. One time I grabbed an unlabeled baggie that I thought was potassium and took 6 capsules before playing. I had extreme irregular heart rate that lasted all night. I later discovered that I had mistakenly taken magnesium. This was very strange to me because magnesium had been my savior for such a long time. Whenever I had high heart rate when I was hyper, magnesium would slow my heart, usually within 20-30 minutes. So I was wondering, " Why doesn't it work now? " I began to think that the manufacturer had made a mistake and there was a problem with the product. Eventually the answer came in a sudden insight. I was lying awake at night with my heart beating very irregular and fast. Paying close attention to my heart, I realized that my heart was not just irregular and fast, it was beating very weakly. I noted that this was in stark contrast to the time when I was hyper. Then my heart was beating fast and irregular, but very strong. The insight was that it was the strength of my heart beat and not the speed and irregularity that was the key. I thought back on how calcium is the mineral that is responsible for the heart contracting and magnesium is responsible for the heart relaxing. During hyperthyroidism, magnesium is low and calcium is high. This imbalance is the result of other mineral imbalances (copper, zinc, iron, etc.), but the effects on the heart rate are direct effects of a calcium/magnesium imbalance. This can be demonstrated by taking a magnesium supplement or a cal/mag supplement with much higher magnesium than the usual 2:1 cal/mag ratio when your heart rate is high. This intake of more magnesium will slow the heart rate temporarily. However, as we have seen, the body can't maintain normal magnesium levels in the blood if copper is low. So until copper is replenished, extra magnesium is needed on a constant basis to control the rapid heart rate. The key to understanding the effects of calcium and magnesium on the heart is this: Calcium is needed for muscles to contract and magnesium is needed for muscles to relax. The heart muscles are like all muscles. Calcium causes heart contraction; magnesium causes heart relaxation. If magnesium is low, as during hyperthyroidism, and calcium is adequate, the heart contracts normally but the relaxation phase is shortened and incomplete. If the normal heart contracts for .5 seconds and relaxes for .5 seconds, we have a 1.0 second cycle which translates into a 60 beats per minute heart rate. If magnesium is low and the relaxation phase is shortened to .25 seconds, then the complete cycle is .75 seconds, which translates to a 80 beats per minute heart rate (60 seconds divided by .75 seconds). As you can see, as magnesium gets more depleted, the relaxation phase shortens and the heart rate increases. When I was experiencing the irregular heart rate, what was happening was that it was calcium that was low and not magnesium. When calcium is low, the contraction phase is shortened while the relaxation phase remains normal. If the contraction phase shortens to .25 seconds and the relaxation phase stays at .5 seconds, the heart rate also increases to 80 beats per minute. If you just looked at the increase in rate, you might, as I did, think that magnesium was deficient. The key to the insight that it was calcium that was deficient was the observation that the heart rate was weak. A weak heart rate means that calcium is deficient and the contraction phase is weak and short. This results in an increase in heart rate and also an irregular heart rate because some contractions are missed entirely. Contrast this to a magnesium deficiency where the heart rate is irregular because some of the relaxations are missed. Once I reached this insight, it all became so simple. I was amazed that I had continued to make the same mistake over and over again. The key mental block for me was that I thought that magnesium always slowed and regulated the heart rate. Once I thought through the whole process of how calcium and magnesium affect the heart, I realized that a calcium deficiency can also lead to a fast and irregular heart rate. With this new insight, I switched my cal/mag ratio to 2:1. I had been mixing a 1:1 ratio supplement with a 2:1 supplement which resulted in a ratio of about 3:2. However with the addition of extra magnesium or extra 1:1 cal/mag after basketball, I probably had about a 1:1 overall ratio. Once I switched to a 2:1 ratio, the heart irregularity completely disappeared and hasn't occurred in months. I found that the cal/mag ratio is the key. However along the way to this discovery I ran across some other interesting information. As I was struggling through this irregular heart rate problem, I found that two things often helped the situation: potassium and vitamin B-5. Potassium often helped and I think the reason for this is that potassium and magnesium are antagonistic minerals. Since I was essentially suffering from too much magnesium (or too little calcium), the potassium helped because it reduced the metabolic effect of the magnesium (or assisted the metabolism of calcium). I think this is important, particularly for persons with hypothyroidism, because they need a higher calcium to magnesium ratio. A potassium deficiency could prevent the cells from getting enough calcium which is an activator in the cellular response to thyroid hormone. The other discovery was that vitamin B-5 is important in preventing irregular heart rate. If B-5 gets deficient, it seems to have an effect on the calcium/magnesium metabolism so that calcium doesn't work as well. A B-5 deficiency has similar effects to a calcium deficiency. I don't know why this happens, but I now realize that it's important when supplementing B complex vitamins to always make sure that you are taking as much B-5 as any of the other B vitamins. For example, if you are supplementing with high amounts of niacin (for headaches or other reasons), be aware that you will need to increase B-5 to the same amount or a little greater to prevent a disturbance of the cal/mag ratio which could result in irregular heart rate. One other discovery in all this was that by not taking enough calcium and taking too much magnesium, another of my teeth died. I developed an extreme tooth ache which led to another root canal. For dental and bone health, don't maintain a high magnesium/calcium ratio past the point where you need it. Remember that balancing calcium and magnesium won't correct thyroid problems. You'll need to correct the other minerals like copper, zinc, iron, selenium, chromium, manganese, etc. to achieve this. Calcium and magnesium get out of balance because of these other nutritional problems. However, getting your calcium/magnesium balance corrected is essential for normalizing heart rate, preventing dental decay and osteoporosis, and preventing muscle cramps (too little magnesium). In summary, to balance calcium and magnesium keep these points in mind: a normal person need a cal/mag ratio of about 2:1; a hyper needs more magnesium and a hypo needs more calcium, but these ratios need to be constantly adjusted as you approach normality; irregular heart rate can be a sign of either too little calcium or too little magnesium; the key to knowing whether you need calcium or magnesium is the strength of the heart beat, not the speed or the irregularity--if it's too strong, take more magnesium and if it's too weak, take more calcium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 , surpriseshan2 wrote: > > I would really appreciate some feedback or opinions about this > article or theory please? > blessings > Shan > CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM > http://www.ithyroid.com/ca_and_mg.htm > I experimented with potassium and found that taking 800-1200 mgs of potassium before my night time basketball often prevented the irregular heart rate and began thinking that I was potassium deficient. One time I grabbed an unlabeled baggie that I thought was potassium and took 6 capsules before playing. I had extreme irregular heart rate that lasted all night. I later discovered that I had mistakenly taken magnesium. This was very strange to me because magnesium had been my savior for such a long time. Whenever I had high heart rate when I was hyper, magnesium would slow my heart, usually within 20-30 minutes. So I was wondering, " Why doesn't itwork now? " I began to think that the manufacturer had made a mistake and therewas a problem with the product. Dear Shan, I wish I had the time to respond to this in more detail, however I would like to comment especially upon the preceding statement. First of all, someone who would grab a bag of vitamins and take six capsules without knowing what they were taking would alert me to the fact that they were not a very reliable source of information!~ Taking six capsules of magnesium on an empty stomach is very very foolish in my opinion! I really doubt that the magnesium was the source of his arrythmias but at those dosages I'm surprised he wasn't inflicted with severe abdominal pain as well as orthomolecular medicine is not without its side effects as any supplement pro will tell you. :-) All the evidence points in the other direction however regarding the arrythmias, for magnesium relaxes the arteries and heart muscles and has never been known to cause artery spasms in lab tests or human experience. If he had arrythmias, it may have been something in the snack he consumed just before the game (typically laden with hydrogenated & inferior fats, etc, gmos etc.) His assessment of trace minerals is rather vague as well. Yes, all the trace minerals mentioned are important, not just to the thyroid, but for an overall sense of well being and health! ...why not just obtain a good multivitamin, and be done with it, for it provides all the copper and trace minerals we need in the right proportions for optimum health. And yes, the ratio of calcium to magnesium is important but this ratio varies for certain individuals according to which health issues they are battling, and to get maximum performance out of your supplements you also have to be consuming a good diet, which he doesn't mention at all. Calcium and magnesium are among those minerals which compete for absorption so we need to take them with meals and at separate times of the day. Many people take calcium in the morning and magnesium at night in order to make sure that the calcium does not offset the beneficial effects of the magnesium. Dark leafy greens organically grown especially, are rich in magnesium. As you may have heard in the past from articles, I prefer to get my calcium from foods because the calcium in supplements are inferior and may contribute to other health problems if taken in large amounts. To be more specific, in large amounts and when they are accompanied by additives (aluminum as in Tums and other OTC drugs) they become problematic in forming harmful artery clogging deposits leading to heart attacks and strokes. An ounce or prevention is worth a pound of cure! Calcium is the most prescribed suplement in orthodox medicine and especially women have to endure this harrassment. They are told that supplemental calcium will cure all their ills,... hormonal imbalance, menopausal irregularities, etc. etc. As a result women are experiencing more and more heart attacks as the body usually deals with excessive supplemental forms in injurious ways (lining arteries, kidney and gall stones, etc) I believe that you have to be very careful with supplemental calcium for all the literature points to the fact that it may very well induce strokes and circulatory problems when ingested without optimal amounts of magnesium and magnesium is very difficult to derive from foods unless you eat primarily organic. Cheap supplements such as coral calcium contain the very worst forms of calcium (synthesized from a rock) and it hardens in your arteries after ingestion if your body gets more than it can safely use. Dairy is not a good source of calcium either. It doesn't have the other accompanying components needed to assimilate calcium properly and the high phosphorus content of dairy products interferes with calcium metabolism as well. Calcium from plant sources are well absorbed because they have all the accompanying components. It one resorts to supplements they should be taken in very small amounts and used only in chelated forms. I have researched calcium and magnesium perhaps more than any other topic in recent years, both in regards to artery and bone health and some other things as well. Experts disagree on some of these issues, however this man's article tops them all. It's little wonder that the excessive potassium didn't lead to his demise. I have heard of ingesting large doses for leg cramps, but his suggestions are utterly preposterous. The FDA advises no more than 99 mgs of potassium per day. I know of several health professionals who advise more. Hans Nieper's supplements are well absorbed, more so than many others, however his tablets are only 250 mgs each. If I were to take calcium I believe I would take his, however I believe that the small amounts contained in my multivitamin are sufficient. I wish you well. You asked for feedback. There are all sorts of articles on the Net. Some of them fact and some of them fiction. We are on information overload. In my opinion, you should look a little further for information on this subject however. Cheers, JoAnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Jo-Ann Guest wrote: I have researched calcium and magnesium perhaps more than any other topic in recent years, both in regards to artery and bone health and some other things as well. Experts disagree on some of these issues, however this man's article tops them all. It's little wonder that the excessive potassium didn't lead to his demise. I have heard of ingesting large doses for leg cramps, but his suggestions are utterly preposterous. The FDA advises no more than 99 mgs of potassium per day. I know of several health professionals who advise more. - - - It is true that the FDA regulates potassium (in supplements) to be no more than 99 mg, but this limit has come about because of stomach problems with non-buffered potassium tablets. There are higher dosed potassium products available as meds (SlowK and KCL Retard - not sure about the names). The human need for potassium is between 3 and 5 grams (3000 to 5000 mg) per day. However, since many foods do contain potassium, at least those who eat plenty of vegetables should have no trouble to meet the requirement, so supplementation remains on a basically illogical limit that is not in line with human needs. All four of the important (macro) minerals also function as electrolytes, meaning they regulate electric signalling and uptake of other nutrients of the cells. These minerals are potassium, sodium, calcium and magnesium, in approximately that order, and they are of great importance. Once you start supplementing one of these minerals, it is good to also take a look at the others. So it could well be that magnesium supplementation works for a time, but if it puts the ratio of these minerals out of balance, you can actually create a deficiency of one or more of the others. The problem is, with a limit of 99 mg on potassium, and a daily need of 3 to 5 grams of the mineral, the usually available potassium supplements are of little if any use. To get sufficient potassium, you end up swallowing great quantities of binders and fillers and whatever else goes into making the tablets. In essence, it's not only a question of one mineral ot the other, it's a question of balance. Sodium is usually not a problem, unless a person is on a sodium restricted diet and supplements one or more of the other minerals, or unless there is excessive sweating, in which case sodium can also be a life saver. Indeed there are sodium tablets available to take care of that need for people who have to work or travel in a desert environment. A discussion of potassium/magnesium imbalance (with relation to thyroid function) is here - scroll down about half way on the page. http://www.ithyroid.com/latest_ideas.htm Kind regards Sepp -- The individual is supreme and finds its way through intuition. Sepp Hasslberger Critical perspective on Health: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ La Leva di Archimede: http://www.laleva.cc/ La Leva's news: http://www.laleva.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 , Sepp Hasslberger <sepp wrote: > > The human need for potassium is between 3 and 5 grams (3000 to 5000 mg) per day. However, since many foods do contain potassium, at least those who eat plenty of vegetables should have no trouble to meet the requirement, so supplementation remains on a basically illogical limit that is not in line with human needs. > The problem is, with a limit > of 99 mg on potassium, and a daily need of 3 to 5 grams of the > mineral, the usually available potassium supplements are of little if any use. --- Re: CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM -- One of the most obvious solutions is to design our diets to include large amounts of potassium, at least up to the maximum amounts derived from organic vegetables. I believe this strategy tends to protect us against future excess potassium as well as short term losses. Naturally, the most effective lifetime strategy would be to get all the potassium and other nutrients which was originally in the food, no huge excesses, and to eat, drink or smoke no poisons in the first place. The wide spread of nutritional contents of foods should make it possible for a knowledgeable person to meet all his needs by wise selection and preparation. Getting enough potassium in the diet would be a much superior strategy for achieving results for several reasons Because the clearance of blood through the liver is reduced in heart disease,aldosterone builds up [Cope]. Aldosterone is normally constantly destroyed by liver enzymes as fast as it is produced [Messerli].As a result it is difficult to restore the body's potassium with food alone [Howard][White][Liddle] [Randall]. Potassium supplements are especially problematic in impaired kidney function [Keith], in those receiving diuretics [Goldberger][Kassirer], during metabolic shock , during dehydration, and during Addison's disease from destruction of the adrenal cortex. A. Hyperkalemia, unless severe, is usually asymptomatic. The effect of hyperkalemia on the heart becomes significant above 6 mEq/L.As levels increase, the initial EKG change is tall peaked T waves. B. As potassium levels rise further, the PR interval becomes prolonged, then the P wave amplitude decreases. The QRS complex widens into a sine wave pattern. Later P wave disappears, QRS becomes irregular and merges with T waves. This is followed by ventricular fibrillation and ultimately cardiac arrest [bajusz p 222]. C. At serum potassium levels of greater than 7 mEq/L, muscle weakness may lead to a flaccid paralysis that spares cranial nerve function. Sensory abnormalities, impaired speech, and respiratory arrest may follow.Plasma potassium must rise 1.0 meq(milliequivalent)/liter or so from 4.8 normal before one would start to use the word alarm.Even so, it would probably be safest to use very small increments of supplements, certainly at first. Heart disease is a life threatening situation in which potassium is involved. Potassium has been used in heart disease therapy since 1930 [sampson]. If the heart disease is the " wet " heart disease as associated with beri-beri (vitamin B-1 deficiency) , potassium supplements will probably dangerously aggravate the situation [McQuarrie][Mineno] [Gould]. Therefore it is very important to know which kind it is. Even in the more likely circumstance that the heart disease is largely a potassium deficiency or aggravated by one, potassium should be used with great caution shortly after an attack. Even though the cellular content is low, and some heart cells are actually dying for lack of potassium, the plasma content can be high. [Flear][Hurley][White] and so supplements can be dangerous. Raab, in a comprehensive review, suggests that dying cells may not be able to reabsorb potassium during the acute phases and thus cause death from this and the adjacent hyperkalemia. The way some doctors in the world get around the impasse is to administer the potassium in conjunction with glucose sugar and insulin [sodi-Pollares][iosava][Landman][Hjermann][LaMarche]. Thus much of the potassium enters the cell to be tied up with glycogen (animal starch). This is called a " polarizing solution " or " GIK " . It is fairly effective although it must not be used during the " wet " heart disease of beri- beri (vitamin B-1 deficiency). In any case there is no good substitute for whole, unprocessed foods with lots of vegetables either alone or with supplements to prevent heart disease.The total body potassium parallels the severity of heart disease [Pierson]. --- Wine has been correlated with low heart disease rates. I suspect that this is because wine contains a poison that interferes with potassium excretion [McDonald] or perhaps because sulfites in most wine destroys vitamin B-1. If so, getting enough potassium in the diet would be a much superior strategy for achieving this result for several reasons, even if the wine has been fermented without sulfur dioxide.Because the clearance of blood through the liver is reduced in heart disease, partly because of lack of exercise, aldosterone builds up [Cope]. Aldosterone is normally constantly destroyed by liver enzymes as fast as it is produced [Messerli]. As a result it is difficult to restore the body's potassium with food alone [Howard][White][Liddle] [Randall]. If supplements are prescribed, probably the safest way to take them would be between meals, in small doses, and dissolved in juice. It should be possible to largely restore the body's potassium with potassium chloride supplements in two weeks or so [Conway]. Using potassium chloride may not be a good idea after repletion for those susceptible to high blood pressure for there is evidence from rats that excess chloride can increase high blood pressure. In addition it is probably advantageous not to supplement one's diet with sodium and chloride from salt, phosphate from soft drinks, or vitamin B1 (thiamin). Naturally, the most effective lifetime strategy would be to get all the potassium and other nutrients which was originally in the food, no huge excesses, and to eat, drink or smoke no poisons in the first place. The wide spread of nutritional contents of foods should make it possible for a knowledgeable person to meet all his needs by wise selection and preparation. Celery, for instance, has twenty times the potassium content of wheat per calorie, and eighty times of refined wheat. Bamboo shoots and green coconut water are also said to be very high. Such foods as celery have, in effect, many of the characteristics of a supplement, but with some built in safety. The potassium content can probably be increased still further for most vegetables by extracting the liquid and drinking it as a juice or as a broth. The best sources are sufficiently high that they should be treated with some of the respect accorded supplements in the event of illnesses which can cause high blood potassium or which immobilize you. The health of people in the USA is abysmal, and a major part of it is poor nutrition. " If we could give every individual the right amount of nourishment and exercise, not too little and not too much, we would have found the safest way to health. " It would seem that a healthy life style has been known for a long time. It is my belief that an unprocessed, unfrozen, not canned, high in vegetables diet would keep a large majority of people reasonably healthy and without the need for fad diets. 80% of Americans do not eat adequate vegetables, but even though 72% of Americans take vitamin or mineral supplements daily or sometimes [sardi p148], their health is atrocious, especially old people.. I would suggest that a partial solution to the problem of poor potassium nutrition would be to place a tax on all food that has had potassium removed by food processors and completely fund all Medicare and workman's compensation for injuries and disease that relate to rheumatoid arthritis, heart disease, and high blood pressure. This would take the tax burden and place it on the shoulders of those who cause the problem! REFERENCES Amerine MA Ough CS 1972 Recent advances in enology. CRC Critical Reviews in Food Technology V 2 issue 4 pp407-5116. Anonymous 1994 Potassium and sodium pumps in the skeletal muscle. 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