OT: Vaccinations

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In a message dated 11/21/2002 8:24:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, DBTenn8653 writes:

 

Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:18:40 -0500

Baby Frances case...

 

(neighbors had found

her left in the car on THREE other occasions, and she'd been

nearly hit by a police car when she was running in the street.)

However, look at this accusation of "neglect":

 

"Prosecutors also presented evidence that Frances had never seen

the family's pediatrician and had not received inoculations or

well-baby exams."

 

 

 

 

 

Now this is just MY personal opinion here: I think this is a very BAD example. Just that little bit says to me that the baby WAS neglected. Left in the car on three seperate occasions, running in the street unsupervised, not EVEN well-baby exams?

 

Okay, a couple of my kids have NEVER received a single innoculation for anything, one has only received 1/4 of what is "required" and one has had the whole thing (only because I didn't know how to get around them at the time).

 

On the other hand, they get their check-ups, Hunny Bunny is at the quack a lot for his asthma AND his well baby check-ups, they don't get left in the car and they don't run around unsupervised in the streets (until they 6, then they can play in the court with only the occasional peek out the window).

 

By not vaccinating them, I'm exercising my rights as a parent to judge what is best. If I were letting little toddlers run around unsupervised in the street, if they never saw a doctor and were being left alone in cars - YUP, I would call that neglect.

 

I don't believe that non-vaccination alone is cause for the accusation of neglect, but the rest of it combined says something altogether different.

 

Cheers!

Kathleen Petrides

The Woobey Queen: Canoodle with a Woobey when even Chocolate can't help.

Woobey Tip:Neck stiff from sleeping in a weird position? Try a nice warm Woobey to loosen things up! http://www.woobeys.com

[Guest guest]

If you still don't believe that we are being forced to comply with vaccinations take a look at this. Anyone who says no to vaccinations is lumped in with child abusers. ++++ ++++ ++++ naturalbirthjunkies [naturalbirthjunkies] neglect/death in Virginia Hi all,I am sure you heard of the family of 12 where they left the baby in the van and she died in the summer. Well dad was found guilty and considering the evidence that it was the fourth time it happened I think that may have been inevitable, but look at the report below. Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:18:40 -0500 Baby Frances case... (neighbors had found her left in the car on THREE other occasions, and she'd been nearly hit by a police car when she was running in the street.) However, look at this accusation of "neglect": "Prosecutors also presented evidence that Frances had never seen the family's pediatrician and had not received inoculations or well-baby exams."

[Guest guest]

The prosecutors have got you right where they wanted you. Got you taking a look at your own way of caring for your family. YOU'RE not on trial!! But they just made you think your own family care could be some day. Re-read the entire quote as I pasted it. It doesn't deny that the family was abusive. Rather it points out that the prosecutors ... planted the seed that 'no vaccination' is also abuse. They're lumping in the no innoculations as a piece of the evidence that finds the parents abusive. yes, all the other evidence is definitely neglect and no one in their right mind would say the parents were innocent of that crime. What prosecutors should have defined is that the no visits to the family doctor was a way for the parents to avoid having any abuse going on at the time be observed by authorities. The way they actually worded it makes it sound as though saying no to vaccinations is also abuse. Abuse is a highly emotional arena and that is exactly the trump card played in a lot of care options and advice given by people. Love to hold up the 'do you want to die? do you want your child to die? do you want others to die?' flag. It gets said far too much to carry good weight with the keen observer. Like the parent who says no to everything. Eventually a child doesn't believe you when you really mean a life or death 'no'. Merck recently came out with a vaccine against cervical cancer. Guess who funded the research? MERCK! How about that old Nestle boycott? Now there's something that's definitely causing harm to other people for our benefit, but what the hell it's not hurting OUR kids. Point being as Butch said...this old world is changing, progress, etc. and I agree with him on all that that entails. My point being can we block out the noise to find the clearing?? I'm sure we won't but we live in America and have the equal opportunity to have our voice heard even if it's in the minority but to have that called abuse? Democracy...we agree, without bloodshed, to allow the majority to rule. OK...everyone go ahead and burn me alive!! Shutting up now. Dale Getting ready to duck the fire!! - WoobeyQueen Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:59 AM Re: OT: Vaccinations In a message dated 11/21/2002 8:24:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, DBTenn8653 writes: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:18:40 -0500 Baby Frances case... Okay, a couple of my kids have NEVER received a single innoculation for anything, one has only received 1/4 of what is "required" and one has had the whole thing (only because I didn't know how to get around them at the time).On the other hand, they get their check-ups, Hunny Bunny is at the quack a lot for his asthma AND his well baby check-ups, they don't get left in the car and they don't run around unsupervised in the streets (until they 6, then they can play in the court with only the occasional peek out the window). By not vaccinating them, I'm exercising my rights as a parent to judge what is best. If I were letting little toddlers run around unsupervised in the street, if they never saw a doctor and were being left alone in cars - YUP, I would call that neglect.I don't believe that non-vaccination alone is cause for the accusation of neglect, but the rest of it combined says something altogether different.Cheers!Kathleen PetridesThe Woobey Queen: Canoodle with a Woobey when even Chocolate can't help.Woobey Tip:Neck stiff from sleeping in a weird position? Try a nice warm Woobey to loosen things up! http://www.woobeys.com How To Make Rose Petal Jam - Step By Step Instructionshttp://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.htmlTo Un send a blank e-mail to: -

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate,

 

> I am a nurse---one who knows the dangers of receiving these.

 

By " these " are you referring to vaccinations in general or to particular

vaccinations?

 

And by " dangers " are you referring to individuals or to society as a

whole?

 

> In '91 I received the hepatitis vaccine--this is a series of 3

> injections given over a certain time period.

 

That's the gamma globulin series .. is it not? I might be confused. I

had to take that series 5 or 6 times during the middle 1980s .. each

time I went to Africa and as I was in Central Command I had to go often.

I recall that they weren't completely sure how effective it would be ..

and they believed it would only be effective (if it was effective) for

90 days or so. I recall that the shots had to be given by appointment

because the vaccine was kept in a refrigerator and could only be taken

out minutes before they shot it into the hip .. where it felt like a

softball had been implanted. ;-p

 

> The series was interrupted due to a job change; so since 6 months

> had passed--the new hosp re-started the series. Before I received

> my 4th--I suggested they might want to do a titer--but was told

> it was quite expensive, etc, and since I had no problems with the

> other 3, there was no reason to think there would be a problem.

>

> Well, there was a problem. I ended up with a one-in-a-million

> reaction.

 

As an individual on the receiving end of a one-in-a-million reaction,

the fact that nine hundred and ninety-nine thousand nine-hundred and

ninety-nine other folks didn't have that reaction is not a lot of

comfort .. but as a professional nurse, do you believe that 1 in a

million is too great a risk factor?

 

> With in 4 hours time, I had excruiating pain in my elbos and shoulder-

> I called the hosp and was told to take Ibuprofen and that helped a

> bit. But that was only the beginning. I received the injection on

> Thrusday morning--by Saturday I could no longer feed myself. It was

> as if my fingers would not do what I tried to get them to--And I went

> back to the doctor and was diagnosed with Guiiian Barre--a disease

> that very little is known about--can be caused by a vaccination or a

> virus or neither. It is a paralyzing virus in that some or all of t

> the muscles--in ascending or descending order--become paralyzed.

 

I deeply regret the pain and discomfort you experienced. :-(

 

> Some people recover; some people do not. Aprroximately 2/3 of my

> muscles were paralyzed--the rest labored having to carry the workload

> of my entire body--as a result they were in constant spasm. For which

> I could take nothing due to the fact if those muscles relaxed and

> quit working, so would my diaphragm--and I would end up on a

> ventilator. I was so terrified. By the end of 2 I could barely

> walk. I was out of work from Nov 7th until mid-April----I had a

> paperwork job that was only a few hours a week that I managed to

> maintain.

>

> The hosp denied me worker's comp---even though they required this

> vaccine--and then denied my insurance. So I got a lawyer--I had no

> breath to talk or argue--I had to let someone else do this. I started

> physical therapy in mid-Jan---I wasn't allowed to do anything at

> first--they just worked on the muscle spasms. And they found out

> where I was as far as physical activity.

 

Did your attorney win the case .. did you get your benefits?

 

> I recall on the first visit her asking me if I could do a sit-up--

> and I said " sure " --and she asked how many--I said " oh at least 20--

> but I will be sore tomorrow " --she asked me to do one--and I could

> not raise up at all. I did not realize how bad it was until then.

> (Or maybe I knew--but denial is a great coping mechanism!)

>

> Well, I will stop this--for those of you who were vaccinated at some

> time in the past against smallpox--get a titer--insist on one--you may

> still be immune. They really do not know--it is a guessing game at

> this point.

 

But I think we can agree that the major diseases Americans were once

exposed to .. those that wiped out tens of thousands in epidemics, are

no longer a threat because of vaccinations .. am I wrong?

 

I recall in the early 60s, I was in the 'Nam and we had a major outbreak

of Cholera .. folks were dropping like flies. Me and my team continued

to eat the same Vietnamese food we had eaten before .. had very little

choice as we were advisors to a Vietnamese military unit. Many of the

Vietnamese caught Cholera .. not one of my folks did because we had been

vaccinated against it.

 

During my many trips to Somalia I recall folks looking poorly and dying

from diseases we had only read about in books .. NONE of my team ever

caught one of those dreaded diseases because .. we had been vaccinated.

 

> Since that point, I have learned I am a highly allergic person.

> My titers for all the childhood diseases are sky-high. I have

> environmental allergies, food allergies, insect allergies, and of

> course, medication. Up until that point, I had only one severe

> reaction to a medication--after that, allergies were everywhere

> it seemed.

 

I guess that's a good reason to be concerned with natural healing as

much as possible .. and learning to make the informed decisions needed

to take control of our own health .. as best as we can.

 

> Just something to think about . . .

> Kate

 

I understand where you are coming from ... and I don't think the case

you present is based on emotions only .. but the fact that folks are

being killed in automobile accidents daily is also something to think

about ... makes us a lot more cautious .. but rarely does it keep us

from getting into our cars.

 

I don't dispute the facts presented by anyone who is opposed to any form

of vaccination .. but I question whether the facts are sufficient to

justify avoidance of vaccinations. No question that some folks will

have violent reactions to certain medications but somewhere there must

be a line drawn .. is the preventive measure worse than the disease when

we look at the entire population .. and are there ways to identify the

folks who might have such violent reactions so they can avoid the

vaccination. Aside from this, the only option is to totally eliminate

preventive medicine. :-(

 

Y'all keep smiling, Butch