Guest guest Posted March 16, 2002 Report Share Posted March 16, 2002 > Hello people, > I've been very busy over the last few days so have not had a chance > to respond, but today (by accident) I've got more time so I've > actually got time to respond rather than think about it or start but > not finish posts. > > >I have absolutely no problem with vitex oil being investigated for > >what it can do. What I have a very big problem with is this > >investigation being done by amateurs. I do not mean that in a nasty > >way, fact is to do this job properly and safely requires structured > >toxicological and efficacy trials. There is no short cut to that if > >one is looking at possible pharmacological actions rather than > >subjective psychological effects. Sure, we don't have that research > >on many commonly used oils, but most of those have been in constant > >use for hundreds of years without significant toxicological > >problems. What worries me enormously with oral use of vitex oil is > >possible long-term harm caused by unnatural over-stimulation of the > >hormone producing organs. > > I agree that the article that Judy posted should not have been > published in the health food shop newsletter in the first place as it > only tells half the story, but in the papers that are being/may be > published, oral use is not recommended. > > As to the research being done by amateurs: with any luck, other > people will read the paper(s) who DO have the money and knowledge and > time to conduct more clinical trials, and will be spurred on to do so > by this research. I thought it should be written up so the research > would not be lost, and later on Aromatherapy Today decided to publish > it because the editor, John Kerr, liked the way the study was > conducted (questionnaire basis). > > >In reply to your question on how we can progress this issue. The > >only way forward is proper trials and that can only be done by a > >professional organisation or company; there are not in the > >aromatherapy trade capable of funding and organising that. In my > >opinion the only way this can progress in a safe professional manner > >is if a large company already in the supplement field decided to > >conduct trials. However since several already supply the herb in > >tablets and capsules as well as having already sponsored trials, I > >have my doubts they will be interested. For example Gerrard House > >conducted trials on vitex herb years ago and those results were > >published, as have been several subsequent trials. The Herb > >Research Founder in Boulder can provide (for a small sum) a whole > >heap of references on research on the herb. > >http://www.herbs.org/index.html I highly recommend them for those > >who want good references to follow up, rather than the typical > >aromatherapy trade hash. > > The CTNM paper (in which Janina Sorensen has written background > information) calls for further research on the use of the EO and herb > in menopause (most prior research on herbal Vitex has been to do with > menstruation difficulties). The conclusion also states, as its first > sentence, " Clearly this data has to be viewed in light of the small > number of participants (23), as well as the totally subjective nature > of both use and measurement of success. " There are 22 references, > most of which are scientific papers. > By the way, I don't think you'll find much existing research on Vitex > leaf. I'm probably going to be very busy again for the next few days > so will be quiet again but following the discussion. -------------- Barbara Lucks wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > I'm back on for just a day to briefly address some of the issues > surrounding the debate over the Vitex Anthology (never presented as a > study--only as a collection of feedback from others). Fortunately, I > am not a professional researcher and I funded the whole thing out of > my own pocket. I have no career to defend here, and I knew the work > would draw criticism from some scientists--others have praised it. > Personally, I know how well the oil works for me, and I still get > e-mail regularly from women who are having good results, so I was not > looking for validation, especially from people who have no experience > whatsoever with the oil. I can sit back and appreciate the varying > points of view. > > I thank all of you for your comments. And no, the story is not over. > I hope it is just beginning, and it does indeed appear that more > research is in progress. The 23 stories I collected (plus some 12-15 > ladies who have contacted me subsequent to the project) do not > constitute a large sampling. But a pattern did emerge--a pattern did > emerge. > > For those of you who are scrambling to get a supply of vitex and start > aggressive personal use, or sell it to your clients with claims of > likely success. WATCH OUT! This is a powerful and very subtle oil. > It is still teaching me its tricks, and I have been using it for two > years. It appears that there may be marked differences in action > between leaf oil and berry oil, so know which oil you are using. > Also, it is not uncommon to use the oil regularly for 2-5 weeks before > feeling an effect. Other effects seem quite rapid. All of us who > regularly work with e.o.'s know these variations, but vitex can often > take longer than other natural substances to take effect. Research > to date indicates that it works by direct action on the pituitary > to normalize progesterone levels. > > A woman using vitex oil may experience greater emotional peace and > mental clarity, improved sleep, stablilized weight, reduction or > elimination of hot flashes/night sweats, regulation of irregular > menses, and improved vaginal tone and lubrication. OR she may > experience worse hot flashes than she ever imagined, unwanted > bleeding, and technicolor nightmares. My suggestion: if you want to > try this oil, start with inhalation or highly diluted use in body > creams. Listen to the messages your body is sending you. Don't go > selling it to anyone without making sure they know it is a > experimental oil, no results are guaranteed, and medical monitoring is > a MUST with any internal use or use of the oil with any form of > hormonal supplementation. > > Don't mix it with birth control pills--you could negate the b.c. pill. > > Until two days ago, I was supplying a full copy of my work to anyone > who posted me privately with a personal need for the information. > Silly me. Due to abuse of my work and disrespect for the copyright, I > am no longer supplying this information to anyone. I am looking long > and hard at how I share--even if I share--the massive amount of > information that we did NOT have room for in the paper. > > Such a format will have to serve the public, will have to honor the > oil and its power, and will have to serve me. I do know that the > internet is NOT an honorable place for this work. However, I do want > to thank the anonymous slimebag who breeched the copyright agreement > for some great publicity! You know you have a hot property when > somebody leaks it! > > Those of you who want the information, buy a copy of Aromatherapy > Today--June issue. Perhaps Lowana will let us all know how we can get > a copy of the nursing journal (due out late in the year) if our > collaborative piece passes peer review. Aromatherapy journals need our > support and provide a place to share information in its entirety, > rather than detached " snippets " zapped around the globe and ripe for > misinterpretation. > > I will sign off tomorrow morning, but can respond tonight to anything > that I think warrants response. Again, thanks for a lively > discussion. > Barbara ----------- Someone wrote: > > Hi folks, > This is the study that is being published in Aromatherapy Today next > month, and, in a more scientific form and with more background > information, is currently being considered for publication in > Complementary Therapies in Nursing and Midwifery where it is > currently being peer-reviewed by 2 people. > > Although many women were using other therapies as well as Vitex EO, > they attributed the changes after using the EO to the EO rather than > the other therapies which could be seen as a base-line constant. > > > > > Someone wrote: > > > > This is the article that was printed in our local Helath Food Co-op > > Newsletter. > > > > Menepause Releif Developed From Age-old herb by Amanda Womble, > > Aromatherapist > > > > Vitex agnus castus has been the herb of choice for healing female > > complaints and hormone imblalnces since time immemorial. Drawings of > > Vitex appeared in Dioscurides " Materia Medica date 55 AD, and > > Hippocrates recommended the herb in 400 AD for inlammations and > > injuries. According to Pliny the Elder (23-79AD), Vitex was highly > > revered as one of the most important medecines of that time. > > Today, Vitex is held in the same regard. The indications for the use > > of Vitex have changed very little since ancient times. Menstrual > > anomolies and female complaints such as PMS, depression, water > > retention, mentrual headaches, and low milk production, among other > > ailments, have been treated successfully with the use of Vitex. > > In 1994, the first distillation of Vitex rendered essential oil and > > experts set to work researching its many diverse compounds. Analysis > > found that the essential oil contained the same compounds as the > > herb and because of long, slow distillation process, many more > > unknown compounds were present in the oil that were not present in > > the extract (tincture)f orm. Danish Physiologist Janina Sorensen > > reported on her researvh at 4th Scientific Wholistic Aromatherapy > > Conference last November. > > Sorensen reported that Vitex in general balances the female sex > > hormones and counteracts estrogen overproduction.Estrogen domination > > has been related to several serious female disease including > > osteoporosis as well as breast and endometrial cancer. > > Another Speaker at the conferencenoted Aromatherapist Barbara Chopin > > Lucks, reported on a study that she performed using the essential > > oil of Vitex with 33 menepausal women. Her preliminary findings were > > remarkable. The women in the study were experiencing the typical > > menopausal complaints with varying degrees of severity. these > > synmptoms inluded but were not limited to: > > > > mood swings, depression, personality changes, memory loss, > > disorientation, difficulty concentrating, hot flashes, night sweats, > > vaginal thinning, dryness, pain with intercourse, insomnia, heavy > > or prolonged bleeding, changes in libido. > > > > all of the women who participated in the study had some previous > > experience with using essential oils so the mode of application was > > let to their discretion. Some women chose only to inhale the oil > > straight from the bottle while others chose to take one drop > > internally. Other chose to apply it using a carrier oil, cream or > > lotion and still others added it to their bath water. Dosages in > > the study were not specific and the Vitex essential oil was used > > according to individual preference. I would not her, however, that > > the essential oil of Vitex is very potent and that very little is > > needed. (i.e. maximum 5 drops per ounce of carrier oil, cream > > or lotion, maximum 3 drops in bath.) > > > > The women in the study were located thought the United States and > > Canada. Some of the women were on Hormone replacement therapy and > > some were taking herbal meneposal formulas. The study lasted for > > three months, during which time the women keep a journal of their > > experiences and reported them regularly. At the end of the three > > months their data was compiled and some of the results follow. > > > > > > (to be continued) > > > > > > Sorry, folks I am retyping and need a break. Will continue later. ---------- Somebody wrote: > > All of the women attributed moderate to major improvement in their > menopausal symptoms as a direct result of using the essential oil of > Vitex. They felt that the essential oil relieved their symptoms to > such a degree that they would continue using the oil even after the > study was complete. The list of symptoms improved by the following > percentages: > .mood swings, depression, personality changes 80% > .memory loss, disorientation, difficulty concentrating 27% > .hot flashes, night sweats 64% > .vaginal thinning, dryness, pain with intercourse 83% > .insomnia 56% > .heavy or prolonged bleeding 50% > .changes in libido 43% > > The women who were on HRT experienced so much relief that they were > able to lower their prescription doses up to 50%. Some women resumed > having regular periods after not menstruating or 3-10 months. On > woman even gave the Vitex essential oil to her eleven-year old > daughter who " was experiencing real hormonal change like hormone > related headaches. It cleared her headaches completely. " > > Another woman reported that using their gave her " balance, a > peacefulness and relaxation that was much need and appreciated. " > And another who used the oil reported " more balance in mood swings > and depression, better sleep, and no more night sweats. " > One woman reported keeping it on her night stand for immediate relief > of hot flashes and night sweats just by inhaltion of the oil from > the bottle. > It is evident, however anecdotal, that essential oil of Vitex exhibits > the same balancing action that the research attributes to the did > berries. However, the oil may be both broader and more refined in its > therapeutic action. the essential oil may also be used for PMS another > menstrual complaints for which one would Vitex tincture or capsules. > > (Our local health food co-op sells the oil for $22.00 for 5 ml. do you > know where we can get it wholesale?) ---------- Barbara Lucks wrote: > > I seee the Vitex Anthology as an ongoing project, though I am no > longer doing the work in such a formalway. I get e-mails from time to > time from some of the original participants, as well as ladies who > were using vitex on their own or have just started using it. If > anyone is interested in a copy of the standard information reporting > form that we used for the Anthology, please post me privately and I > will send it to you. It has to be snail mailed. > > The answer is that yes, we need all the data we can get, though I feel > that my start needs to be refined and expanded on by someone who is > better at research than I, and who can dedicate some very focused time > (and a bit of money) to the project. Janina Sorensen, the > physiologist who distilled the berry oil, has some great ideas for > more controlled studies where women are tracked for several years > through the process, and hormonal levels are measured to determine > a standard " starting point " . I would be happy to put you in touch > with her...folks who are medical pros are more likely to have the > resources to do this research " properly " . Though I must say I was > touched when several scientists who heard my presentation at PIA took > the time to tell me that they felt The Vitex Anthology was a very > sound piece of research. > > To quickly answer your questions: > > Most of the participants were self-disagnosed as being in the > perimenopausal to postmenopausal period. Some had lab work to support > hormonal changes, but, let me tell you, a woman KNOWS when her > hormones are changing. The ladies were born in the years between > 1944-1958. > > We assessed the impact of nine different syptom groups both before > using vitex and after three months of use. These symptom groups are > detailed on the information reporting form the ladies filled out. > > The country of origin of the oil and ESPECIALLY the plant part > distilled is essential informatiion in evaluating the results. > > The ladies used the oil in any way they chose, and they reported > methods of use on the info form. For those wishing to start using > e.o. vitex, I personally recommend starting with simple inhalation. > It can take weeks to feel an effect, though some effects are almost > instant. Both herb and oil act directly on the pituitary to balance > progesterone. > > Use with hormone replacement therapy is dodgy and requires a lot of > fine tuning. I personally use a combo of soy-derived estrogen and > e.o. vitex for the progesterone balance. (Yes, I have tried life > without the estrogen, and we really don't want to go there, at least > not with me). I need to see my doc about twice a year for monitoring. > It appears that the use of vitex really skews the progesterone part > of the balance, and a woman needs to find an open-minded doc to work > with her. > > Also, e.o. vitex, as well as the herb, can REDUCE OR ELIMINATE THE > EFFECTIVENESS OF BIRTH CONTROL PILLS! Talk about a place you don't > want to go in your forties or fifties! > > The " story " form of The Vitex Anthology will be published in > Aromatherapy Today, June 2001 issue. A different version, stripped > down to just the data (and with comparative GC's) is currently > undergoing peer review for a British nursing journal. This piece > includes an introduction to the herb, oil and current research > written by Janina Sorensen, and the entire collaborative effort was > edited (bless her heart) by Lowana Veal, a biologist. We should hear > in a few weeks if we have passed peer review. Wish us luck! > > So that's where we're at....and the work goes on. Barbara > > A nurse wrote: > Thank you Barbara, > Your right about working relationships. I will keep you and this > list informed. I would like my work reviewed before I start any study. > Also I wanted to ask you if you still need data...I meet a lot of > women that are interested in being a part of your Vitex research. I > need to know what target group that you are focusing on...age (pre or > menopausal) range...particular symptoms...what part of the plant oil.. > application of the Vitex etc. Can the women already be on hormone > replacement therapy...will they need to go off their therapy? How > long will they be monitored for? Let me know... ----------------------------- http://www.kypros.org/Projects/Laona/chaste_tree.html http://www.nutrimart.com/Bulk/Description/agnus.htm http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/scripts/asp/IAPT/ncugentry.asp?name=Vitex http://www.friedli.com/herbs/chasteberry.html http://www.thorne.com/townsend/oct/herbal.html http://breastcancer.about.com/health/breastcancer/cs/chasteberry/index.htm http://depression.about.com/health/depression/library/weekly/aa090500b.htm?iam=d\ pile & terms=%2BVitex+%2Bagnus+%2Bcastus http://herbsforhealth.about.com/health/herbsforhealth/library/weekly/aa050198.ht\ m?iam=dpile & terms=%2BVitex+%2Bagnus+%2Bcastus http://www.health-pages.com/ct/ http://www.streetside.com/plants/floridata/ref/v/vitex_a.htm --------------- > I am a chiropractor and a pharmacist with a background in research. I > > have been using oils for several years. I am in the process of putting > together a project with an ob-gyn to do a study on vitex for PMS and > menopause. I have several patients using the vitex including my > mother who after 25 years of hormone replacement therapy had a > hysterectomy to remove endometrial cancer. She has been using Vitex > before the sugery and and post-op with no problems. > My interest began when my wife's sister was diagnosed with breast > cancer and the tumor grew from nothing to a golf ball in less than a > month because the MD didn't take her off the hormones. With the > history of heart disease and osteoporosis in my wife's family, we > considered HRT a viable option until her sister was diagnosed. Both > my wife and two of her sisters (one that had the mastectomy) use the > Vitex to 'regulate' menopause symptoms. > I have my own theory about xeno-estrogens and their effect on the > human condition, but that is another soap box to include treating > menopause as a disease. My experience over the past 9 months shows no > complications, including one post endometrial CA and Breast CA > (Ductile). I of course will continue monitoring but the relief my > patients have obtained has made it worth it. > I am very curious on the effect of vitex on osteoporosis. Some > women have stated their osteoarthrits symptoms have decreased as well. > > Here is an e-mail I just received tonight: > > " On a positive note- I just talked to Cookie (she may call you) She > has been using the Vitex and wants more - not only -no hot flashes - > as of the second day - no vaginal dryness, she was actually horney > and had great sex! I told her to tell you that - hee hee " > > This oil has helped many women and out of my group of 30+ patients > only one had no effect. I have one psychotherapist taking it by mouth > but most just inhale it (one drop on a tissue) or put it (one drop) on > their feet, wrist and temples. Usually inhalation stops a hot flash > dead in it's tracks. Hope this helps! > > Dr. XXXXXXXXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.