Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hi Richard, > Phil It is more than just a GuaSha method. Empty Cupping is called > BaGuan. Scraping is called GuaSha. After seeing my work for many > years Dr. Wu, Boping coined the term for Cupping & Scraping method as 'BaGuaFa'.c ... Many thanks for the very detailed reply. I have read it and filed it away carefully! Your techniques, and the speed of cure, intrigue me. What is your clinic address? I must get out to see you at work sometime. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc, c/o 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hi Phil My clinic is in Pompano Beach, Florida (which is just shlightly north of Fort Lauderdale). You are welcome to come aytime you intend to be in this area....I will make sure to be available. What is most fascinating IMHO is that we have been taught to be so bent toward the use of acupuncture needles and electro acupuncture (Yang style treatments) that in a way we have missed the efficacy of the Yin style treatment modalities. There is nothing wrong with Yang style treatments - it's just that it more often than not is an 'indirect' method. We treat the 'qi' imbalance to effect the yin. Sure....we know about TuiNa and GuaSha and BaGuan (cupping) but do we REALLY know about them? There is a huge difference between using these modalities once or twice here and there compared to using them day in and day out for years. Just like one would reasonably expect that a long time practitioner using needles would gain sensitivities that a beginner couldn;t imagine no less have. There are times one needs to work with Yang style treaments to either specifically work on the Yang/qi or indirectly work to effect the Yin.....BUT what I am stating is that the greatest majority of myofascial pain syndromes is a Yin stagnation problem. If we work directly with a Yin style treatment to dissipate the Yin stagnation....the response is quicker possibly by an order of at least ten. As a Florida Board of Acupuncture approved continuing education provider....this weekend I am holding a seminar for some few required courses and decided to begin to share this combination technique. Not that everyone has to do it as I do......a few I have already taught have their own variations. Actually have taught one Chiropractor so far who finds it indispensible. When adjustments have become impossible due to those unseen subluxations. Now he whips out his cupping set, releases the lesions and then goes back and adjusts the patient. And now he understands visually what a subluxation really is made of. Look forward to seeing you in the near future. Regards, Richard In a message dated 10/7/2004 3:19:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: Hi Richard, > Phil It is more than just a GuaSha method. Empty Cupping is called > BaGuan. Scraping is called GuaSha. After seeing my work for many > years Dr. Wu, Boping coined the term for Cupping & Scraping method as 'BaGuaFa'.c ... Many thanks for the very detailed reply. I have read it and filed it away carefully! Your techniques, and the speed of cure, intrigue me. What is your clinic address? I must get out to see you at work sometime. Best regards, Email: < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hi Pam Anytime - anywhere. It was several years ago I mentioned the same within PA-L that I would travel to teach it. West Coast, Europe - anywhere there are practitioners interested. Richard In a message dated 10/7/2004 9:04:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, needledoc writes: Hi, Richard, How about teaching a CE class on it on the west coast? There are several very good AP schools which would enjoy having you teach it. I use cupping a gua sha quite a bit and would love to learn more. As an fyi, I don't use e-stim often. Have a save Fall/Winter, Pam Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hi, Richard, How about teaching a CE class on it on the west coast? There are several very good AP schools which would enjoy having you teach it. I use cupping a gua sha quite a bit and would love to learn more. As an fyi, I don't use e-stim often. Have a save Fall/Winter, Pam Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Hi Richard, Yang style treatments and Yin style treatments? I've never heard of this, can you explain a little more about it please? Kind regards Attilio D'Alberto <http://www.attiliodalberto.com/> www.attiliodalberto.com acudoc11 [acudoc11] 07 October 2004 14:53 Chinese Medicine Re: Re: - Guasha, Baguan, BaGuaFa There are times one needs to work with Yang style treaments to either specifically work on the Yang/qi or indirectly work to effect the Yin.....BUT what I am stating is that the greatest majority of myofascial pain syndromes is a Yin stagnation problem. If we work directly with a Yin style treatment to dissipate the Yin stagnation....the response is quicker possibly by an order of at least ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 It's something of a pride with me that I have never used anything other than the needle to move qi, and am soon coming to the place that if the insertion gets any shallower the needle will become redundant. Hope someone out there is having a similarly weird experience. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. - " Pam Price " <needledoc <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:07 AM Re: Re: - Guasha, Baguan, BaGuaFa > > > Hi, Richard, > How about teaching a CE class on it on the west coast? There are several > very good AP schools which would enjoy having you teach it. > I use cupping a gua sha quite a bit and would love to learn more. As an > fyi, > I don't use e-stim often. > > Have a save Fall/Winter, Pam Price > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Thanks, Richard, have forwarded your reply to our OAA group for school sponsorship. Will have the powers that be contact you. Pam Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 It's good to take pride in what you do, but it can also be equally iluminating to incorporate other tools of the trade in your treatment arsenal. I frequently employ guasha and baguan on my family members with instaneous treatment results. If you know how to use these tchniques, they can enhance the efficacy of your needle work. It's always beneficial to have more information available. You'll be thankful that you know these techniques when you encounter someone suffering from say ......heatstroke. Ming homi kaikobad <aryaone wrote: It's something of a pride with me that I have never used anything other than the needle to move qi, and am soon coming to the place that if the insertion gets any shallower the needle will become redundant. Hope someone out there is having a similarly weird experience. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. - " Pam Price " <needledoc <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:07 AM Re: Re: - Guasha, Baguan, BaGuaFa > > > Hi, Richard, > How about teaching a CE class on it on the west coast? There are several > very good AP schools which would enjoy having you teach it. > I use cupping a gua sha quite a bit and would love to learn more. As an > fyi, > I don't use e-stim often. > > Have a save Fall/Winter, Pam Price > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Chinese Medicine , " homi kaikobad " <aryaone@e...> wrote: > > It's something of a pride with me that I have never used anything other than > the needle > to move qi, and am soon coming to the place that if the insertion gets any > shallower > the needle will become redundant. > > Hope someone out there is having a similarly weird experience. > what's weird? shallow insertion? contact needling? lots of people do it. i've spent almost a decade studying and practicing these kind of techniques, but i can't say that's all i use. moxibustion is extremely useful, as are ip cords, herbs, channel stretching, manual therapy, e-stim, etc... then again i need all the help i can get. rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I not sure why anyone would limit their practice to the use of needles. All of my former instructors from China would agree that acupunture in China represented at the most 20% of CM.It is in this country(USA) that the fascination with needles outweigh their clinical usefulness.Don't get me wrong, I think needles are a wonderful adjunct to herbal therapy and can even treat a few things (esp. pain) by themselves.It seems as though many schools realize the extreme interest in needles that American students have and quite frankly over emphasize acupunture when more time should be spent on herbs.These are just my observations and could be wrong.Please feel free to disagree and try and convince me otherwise if you feel so inclined to do so. Regards, Cullen --- homi kaikobad <aryaone wrote: > > It's something of a pride with me that I have never > used anything other than > the needle > to move qi, and am soon coming to the place that if > the insertion gets any > shallower > the needle will become redundant. > > Hope someone out there is having a similarly weird > experience. > > Dr. Holmes Keikobad > MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ > www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. > NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. > - > " Pam Price " <needledoc > <Chinese Medicine > > Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:07 AM > Re: Re: - Guasha, Baguan, BaGuaFa > > > > > > > > Hi, Richard, > > How about teaching a CE class on it on the west > coast? There are several > > very good AP schools which would enjoy having you > teach it. > > I use cupping a gua sha quite a bit and would love > to learn more. As an > > fyi, > > I don't use e-stim often. > > > > Have a save Fall/Winter, Pam Price > > > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 i don't see much point in trying to convince anyone of anything, but i'll just comment here that the vast majority of acupuncturists in japan don't use herbs (their use is restricted to md and pharm licenses) and effectively tx all kinds of internal problems. rh Chinese Medicine , Jason Senko <cullen78704> wrote: > I not sure why anyone would limit their practice to > the use of needles. All of my former instructors from > China would agree that acupunture in China represented > at the most 20% of CM.It is in this country(USA) that > the fascination with needles outweigh their clinical > usefulness.Don't get me wrong, I think needles are a > wonderful adjunct to herbal therapy and can even treat > a few things (esp. pain) by themselves.It seems as > though many schools realize the extreme interest in > needles that American students have and quite frankly > over emphasize acupunture when more time should be > spent on herbs.These are just my observations and > could be wrong.Please feel free to disagree and try > and convince me otherwise if you feel so inclined to > do so. Regards, Cullen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Hi Cullen, > All of my former instructors from > China would agree that acupunture in China represented > at the most 20% of CM. Since I have not personally been to China, I would be interested in knowing more about your experiences. Which modalities did you come across most often? Herbs, tuina, cupping, etc. Any comments on how and when the different modalities were used. Also, I would be interested in what parts of the country you visited, since I have observed that different parts of China have different " traditions " . Any additional information that you would care to share would be very much appreciated. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 [Cullen: > I not sure why anyone would limit their practice to > the use of needles. ] Because the approach works and is sufficient. If tongue-pulse-abdominal-channel parameters settle, with the littlest needling, one must wind down treatment. There are rare cases in which I have to use Matsumoto type moxa on triggers but those are few and far between instances. The only time this may not be the best approach is when matters are emergent such a LV flux headache, a GB tide at hip as sciatica. It fascinates me to feel the delicately insistent Design of the qi matrix, the ebb and the flow of the horarian tides, in definite pathways, by distinct time frames, through virtually unchanged points through the centuries, be it a Hitler, or Hannibal, or good old Mrs. Hutchins from Hanover, IL. When qi flows by it's own wisdom, healers must stand aside. To do little only means the body does the rest. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Cullen, It seems to me that most Chinese practitioners or those who have learned modern TCM in china practice a very limited form of acupuncture. Many seem to use acupuncture mostly for musculoskeletal problems and prefer to use herbs for internal medicine. no problem! it seems to work very well a lot of the time. My friend who practices in Tokyo however treats patients with acupuncture and moxibustion with a little bit of massage and very occasionally prescribes herbs. He uses the 5-phase points, luo, xi, yuan, shu and mu points...usually starting with the patient on their back and doing some moxa on the chest and abdomen, very soft quick needling on the extremities and then turning the patient over to put lots of needles in points on the back and leaves them there for about half an hour. he never seems to put the needles in where the patient perceives the problem to be! taking a minute to feel what's happening inside my body after every treatment like this is great, it really has a very strong and noticeable energetic effect! very clear sensations of movement and heat flowing all over the body, mild dizziness or great clarity of vision... this guy reckons that this kind of acupuncture is not practiced in china because it takes longer to learn, and that in the current chinese system they prefer to teach a straightforward method that will treat physical symptoms quickly. if treatment is unsuccessful after some time they'll find some old guy at the hospital who still knows the 5-phase old style to spend a bit more time on a more subtle energetic treatment. Cheers. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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