Bleeding ear

[Guest guest]

Dear Shanna,

 

I already have given him Liu Wei Di Huang Pian (patent herbs). Because his

throat is still sore from the radiation and chemo, he does his best to swallow

the pills, some days being better than others. I'm not an herbalist, so am

unfamiliar with the other herbs you mentioned adding. He is probably still on

his first bottle of pills. So far I don't see any change in tongue or pulse.

Can you give me any idea as to how long it might be for the herbs to take

effect? It's already been several weeks. Thanks.

Diane Bryson

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi chidoc

 

I don't have direct experience with this type of patient. Could you

provide more info on s/s and pulse/tongue? There is probably Lung

Yin xu as well as Kid yin xu so the herbs in Liu wei are not

directed for this purpose. In Li Pei Wen's Management of Cancer With

, Lu/K yin xu is mentioned as a sequella for

radition treatment of naso/pharangeal cancer although ear bleeding

is not specifically mentioned. The formula he recommends is as

follows:

 

Sheng Di 15g

Shu Di 20g

Shan Zhu Yu 15g

Mu dan Pi 9g

Fu Ling 15g

Nu Zhen Zi 15g

Gou Qi Zi 15g

Gui Ban 20g

Di Gu Pi 15g

Zhi Mu 12g

Qing Hao 15g

Mai Men Dong 15g

Tian Hua Fen 30g

He Shou Wu 20g

Wu Wei Zi 9g

Chi Shao 15g

Chao Shan Zha 15g

Chao Shen Qu 15g

Chao Mai Ya 15g

 

Of these, Gui Ban can stop bleeding and Di Gu Pi is used to clear

blood heat to aid in stopping bleeding from reckless hot blood.

Maybe add Di Yu which is good for burns/stop bleeding?

 

Maybe addressing Lung Yin is what is missing in Liu Wei for this

patient.

 

Comments anyone else?

 

Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

Regards, Shanna

 

Chinese Medicine ,

thechidoctor@a... wrote:

> Dear Shanna,

>

> I already have given him Liu Wei Di Huang Pian (patent herbs).

Because his

> throat is still sore from the radiation and chemo, he does his

best to swallow

> the pills, some days being better than others. I'm not an

herbalist, so am

> unfamiliar with the other herbs you mentioned adding. He is

probably still on

> his first bottle of pills. So far I don't see any change in

tongue or pulse.

> Can you give me any idea as to how long it might be for the herbs

to take

> effect? It's already been several weeks. Thanks.

> Diane Bryson

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Shanna, & All,

 

> Hi All I'm surprised nobody suggested that this patient was

> beeding due to Yin Xu--radiation treatment. Seems like Liu Di Wei

> Dihuang Tang might help boost his ability to stop bleeding/healthy

> ear (increase Mudanpi, sub Shengdi?). Might add some Jixueteng

> (anecdotally proven to help with side effects of radiation). I

> understand that to use stiptics i.e. stop bleeding herbs for

> bleeding due to deficiency doesn't work. Good Luck, Shanna

 

Would you add Sanqi or Yunnan Baiyao to the formula?

 

If not, why not? My notes on Sanqi say:

 

ACTIONS: (1) Move Xue Stag; Haemostat*~Astringe+Transform

Xue Stas, esp in bleeding in Xue Stag, trauma & wounds;

Anticoagulant; Antithrombus; Ease Pain; Topical: wound~bleeding-

heals wo leaving clots & scars; (2) Quicken Xue; Move Stas; Move

HT Xue (Boost HT Blood Flow); Vascular Aid; Build HT (low dose

Vasoconstrictor & high dose Vasodilator); HT Protector HT

Muscle~Antiischaemia; HT~Antiarrhythmia; Hypotensor; (3)

Quicken Xue; Move Xue Stag; Immunostimulant; Antiinflammation;

Antibacterial; Expel sepsis; Clear Toxin; Antiphlogistic; prevent

sepsis; Antifungal; Antivirus; Vulnerary*/Heal Wounds; Boost

Metabolism; Heal Fractures; Regenerate Tissue*; Reduce

Swelling+Ease Pain; Antiadhesions & Reduce postsurgical scar

tissue; (4) Also: Antioxidant/Antiageing; Antishock;

Adaptogen/Antistress;Anticancer; Cytotoxic Chemotherapy

(Support); Radiotherapy (Support); LV Protector; LV~hepatitis &

LU fibrosis;

 

USES: (1) Sanqi is main Hb in Yunnan Bai Yao (Yunnan White

Powder Antitrauma & Haemostat Formula) esp in bleeding-serious;

styptic; bleeding~squamous cell carcinoma (topical daily can

reduce oozing); bleeding~dental socket postextraction;

bleeding~haemangioma/haemangiosarcoma; Sanqi orally alone as

powder/+Huaruishi & Xueyutan; Sanqi oral/topical decreased

bleeding time & clotting time; Sanqi+Chuanxiong to increase micro-

vascular density in HT~ischaemia/infarction; Sanqi+Hbs to Build

Yin & Clear Xue Heat in bleeding in Yin Xu w mouth dry; (2)

Sanqi+other Hbs to Quicken Xue/Move Xue Stas in HT~CHD,

angina pectoris; HT Muscle~ischaemia; HT~arrhythmia;

Sanqi+Hypotensor Hbs in hypertension; (3) Yunnan Baiyao in

Pyometra* (bitch) (Sumano et al 2004); wound sepsis w swelling &

pain (topical+oral); postsurgical adhesions/scars; (4) Sanqi+other

immunostimulant/Anticancer Hbs to support

chemotherapy/radiotherapy in cancer;

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil

 

Excuse me. Of course, San Qi or Yun Nan Bai Yao would also be good

to add. I should have said " styptics alone " . My bad. I only meant to

stress that bleeding due to deficiency treated with stop bleeding

herbs alone was likely to continue or recurr.

Good info on San Qi!!

 

Regards, Shanna

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<@e...> wrote:

> Hi Shanna, & All,

>

> > Hi All I'm surprised nobody suggested that this patient was

> > beeding due to Yin Xu--radiation treatment. Seems like Liu Di Wei

> > Dihuang Tang might help boost his ability to stop

bleeding/healthy

> > ear (increase Mudanpi, sub Shengdi?). Might add some Jixueteng

> > (anecdotally proven to help with side effects of radiation). I

> > understand that to use stiptics i.e. stop bleeding herbs for

> > bleeding due to deficiency doesn't work. Good Luck, Shanna

>

> Would you add Sanqi or Yunnan Baiyao to the formula?

>

> If not, why not? My notes on Sanqi say:

>

> ACTIONS: (1) Move Xue Stag; Haemostat*~Astringe+Transform

> Xue Stas, esp in bleeding in Xue Stag, trauma & wounds;

> Anticoagulant; Antithrombus; Ease Pain; Topical: wound~bleeding-

> heals wo leaving clots & scars; (2) Quicken Xue; Move Stas; Move

> HT Xue (Boost HT Blood Flow); Vascular Aid; Build HT (low dose

> Vasoconstrictor & high dose Vasodilator); HT Protector HT

> Muscle~Antiischaemia; HT~Antiarrhythmia; Hypotensor; (3)

> Quicken Xue; Move Xue Stag; Immunostimulant; Antiinflammation;

> Antibacterial; Expel sepsis; Clear Toxin; Antiphlogistic; prevent

> sepsis; Antifungal; Antivirus; Vulnerary*/Heal Wounds; Boost

> Metabolism; Heal Fractures; Regenerate Tissue*; Reduce

> Swelling+Ease Pain; Antiadhesions & Reduce postsurgical scar

> tissue; (4) Also: Antioxidant/Antiageing; Antishock;

> Adaptogen/Antistress;Anticancer; Cytotoxic Chemotherapy

> (Support); Radiotherapy (Support); LV Protector; LV~hepatitis &

> LU fibrosis;

>

> USES: (1) Sanqi is main Hb in Yunnan Bai Yao (Yunnan White

> Powder Antitrauma & Haemostat Formula) esp in bleeding-serious;

> styptic; bleeding~squamous cell carcinoma (topical daily can

> reduce oozing); bleeding~dental socket postextraction;

> bleeding~haemangioma/haemangiosarcoma; Sanqi orally alone as

> powder/+Huaruishi & Xueyutan; Sanqi oral/topical decreased

> bleeding time & clotting time; Sanqi+Chuanxiong to increase micro-

> vascular density in HT~ischaemia/infarction; Sanqi+Hbs to Build

> Yin & Clear Xue Heat in bleeding in Yin Xu w mouth dry; (2)

> Sanqi+other Hbs to Quicken Xue/Move Xue Stas in HT~CHD,

> angina pectoris; HT Muscle~ischaemia; HT~arrhythmia;

> Sanqi+Hypotensor Hbs in hypertension; (3) Yunnan Baiyao in

> Pyometra* (bitch) (Sumano et al 2004); wound sepsis w swelling &

> pain (topical+oral); postsurgical adhesions/scars; (4) Sanqi+other

> immunostimulant/Anticancer Hbs to support

> chemotherapy/radiotherapy in cancer;

>

>

>

> Best regards,

>

> Email: <@e...>

>

> WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4,

Ireland

> Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

> WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

>

> Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not

interrupt man doing it "