Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 I'm sure I'll get a few tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, but western medicine has an almost miraculous 'cure' for cystic acne - accutane (a derivitive of Vit A). I know it can be " poisonous " - can cause birth defects in pregnant women. But it also works incredibly well and fast. What about recommending accutane and then using Chinese medicine to counter the side effects and rebalance the body after treatment? I would particularly recommend accutane if the person were suffering severe facial scarring from the acne. ---roseanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Hi Lori, I agree with Jason that we have to know what the acne looks like in order to confirm the diagnosis. Until then there are some things we can know for sure about his diagnosis: Pale tongue - some kind of deficiency Purplish - blood stasis Puffy tongue with grease on the back - phlegm/dampness Night urination - Kidney deficiency The damp/phelgm could help explain why his skin is cold to the touch and why he hates cold. If the acne is cystic, fluid filled, difficult to come to a head, difficult to heal lesions and not so red, then the phlegm/damp diagnosis can help explain it. If the acne is purplish then the blood stasis also helps explain it. There may not be a lot of heat - I've seen acne in which heat is not an issue. Local heat around the lesions can be a result of an accumulation of physiological warmth due to the phlegm damp. This conclusion would come clear when we hear what the nature of the lesions are. I certainly would not assume heat in every case of acne and especially with the details you shared with us. If any of what I am exploring is consistent with this case then you could give him a base formula to transform phlegm/damp, especially in the flesh of his face, consolidate his Kidney Qi, and Quicken Blood Stasis - with additional herbs such as Zao Jiao Ci to help the scour phlegm in order for the lesions to be able to come to a head and Huang Qi to help strengthen the surface Qi in order for the lesions to come to a head. (these are ideas my gyn teacher gave me that also work for helping eggs come to a head in the ovary when the surface of the ovary is occluded by phlegm) I would also consider warming the Kidney and surface Yang. I hope this is helpful, Good luck! Sharon On Sep 19, 2004, at 4:20 AM, Chinese Medicine wrote: >> He is a physically fit 45 year old male, approx 25 year history of >> severe > acne. Appears mostly on his face, some small outbreaks on chest and > legs, > none on his back. He is usually cold to the touch, hates cold weather. > Functions best on a restricted diet, staying away from red meat, oils, > certain fruits and vegetables. This diet was prescribed by a > practitioner of > Korean constitutional acupuncture, who told him he was a " Hespera " and > that > his Liver was " almost dead. " Experiences night time urination, > awakening 2 > to 3 times per night. The only other physical symptom is some low back > stiffness upon awakening that goes away with movement. He works with > another > holistic practitioner that does some Kinesiology with him, was told > that he > was healthy except for needing some emotional release, which he did. > Was > told by an endocrinologist about 10 years ago that he had twice the > testosterone of a teenager. >> >> Tongue is swollen, pale with a purplish tine, coat is thin white (some > greasy white at the base of tongue the first time I saw him, have only > seen > him twice). Pulse is weak and thin, especially on the left guan and chi > positions. Abdomen shows tenderness on left side along ribs. >> >> Sharon Weizenbaum 86 Henry Street Amherst, MA 01002 413-549-4021 sweiz www.whitepinehealingarts.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 I have had great results with laser therapy on severe acne - lasering the entire face and the liver as liver qi stagnation and blood stasis were the root in this case. This patient had taken chinese herbs for years working on a number of different patterns ato no avail and she no longer has acne or the dark brown blemishes left from it. Lasers can help break down scar tissue also. It only took about 10 treatments. (I would also recommend a dietary detoxification program. A diet of veggies and whole grains for one month possibly only with extra fiber and liver supporting herbs. Nothing warming, stagnating or damp producing.) I only bring this up in response to the accutane suggestion. I would suggest explore least invasive treatments before going to more invasive with side effects. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had results with laser and acne.. Nicole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Greetings and thanks to all who responded to my posting. As to the appearance of the actual skin lesions, the ones on the face are fairly large and not red. The extent of the scarring is such that by observation alone it is difficult to distinguish between an active lesion and a scar. I haven't asked him about how readily the lesions come to a head, he seems to open them and then they take a long time to heal. As to Western approaches, he claims a 10 year history of taking whatever the dermatologist gave him with no success. He went through a succession of practitioners, including those at famous large hospitals, with no success. He does have what I would consider a " Liver " type of personality - loud, opinionated, and with an edge that may be contained anger. Along these lines, the practitioner with the most success practiced a Korean constitutional style of acupuncture, and what he really wants is for me to replicate those treatments, since that practitioner no longer practices in the area. (Personally, if the practitioner with the greatest success was now a two hour drive away, I would find a way of doing that two hour drive at least once a week, but that's just me.) He came to me because the last practitioner he tried treated him for LI heat, and all that seemed to do was make him feel off, have multiple loose stools, and precipitate outbreaks. My problem is that the dampness I can see, but the heat (other than the possible contained anger) I cannot see. He claims no difference in the acne seasonally, and that it is better with sun exposure.Both the dampness and the connection between diet and outbreaks tend to point to a Spleen involvement. I have given thought to the possible involvement of blood stagnation, I'll have to try it when I see him on Thursday. Thanks for listening, Lori Lori Barns, L.Ac. Synergy Acupuncture, PLC 2775-B Hartland Road Falls Church, VA 22043 Phone: 703-752-1908 Fax: 703-752-1909 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Hi Lori! I just finished getting off the phone with you and now read your enlightening [for me confirming] words on your patient in regards to emotional content. Possibly a look at his 'gallbladder network' in reflection to his wetness along with spleen might also help. Thank you for listening and take care. David Lori Barns <loribarns wrote: Greetings and thanks to all who responded to my posting. As to the appearance of the actual skin lesions, the ones on the face are fairly large and not red. The extent of the scarring is such that by observation alone it is difficult to distinguish between an active lesion and a scar. I haven't asked him about how readily the lesions come to a head, he seems to open them and then they take a long time to heal. As to Western approaches, he claims a 10 year history of taking whatever the dermatologist gave him with no success. He went through a succession of practitioners, including those at famous large hospitals, with no success. He does have what I would consider a " Liver " type of personality - loud, opinionated, and with an edge that may be contained anger. Along these lines, the practitioner with the most success practiced a Korean constitutional style of acupuncture, and what he really wants is for me to replicate those treatments, since that practitioner no longer practices in the area. (Personally, if the practitioner with the greatest success was now a two hour drive away, I would find a way of doing that two hour drive at least once a week, but that's just me.) He came to me because the last practitioner he tried treated him for LI heat, and all that seemed to do was make him feel off, have multiple loose stools, and precipitate outbreaks. My problem is that the dampness I can see, but the heat (other than the possible contained anger) I cannot see. He claims no difference in the acne seasonally, and that it is better with sun exposure.Both the dampness and the connection between diet and outbreaks tend to point to a Spleen involvement. I have given thought to the possible involvement of blood stagnation, I'll have to try it when I see him on Thursday. Thanks for listening, Lori Lori Barns, L.Ac. Synergy Acupuncture, PLC 2775-B Hartland Road Falls Church, VA 22043 Phone: 703-752-1908 Fax: 703-752-1909 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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