Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Hi All, I have been struggling with the challenge of learning basic Chinese and medical Chinese in written form for the past several months and have built an arsenal of characters that I want to put to use in a more practical way in terms of reading TCM in Chinese. Could those who had trodden this path before me, or are currently attempting this offer any recommendations as far as what Chinese medical material to tackle first? Should I be getting serious about texts such as Wiseman's Shang Han Lun, journal articles, basic modern TCM texts or the shorter classics in simplified Chinese? I have predominately been concentrating on the simplified characters to date, but have picked up some of the traditional forms along the way as well. I realise I will unlimitedly have to tackle the traditional characters as well to access some important materials in the future, but I am taking things in baby steps at the moment. Any input or advise on options for this endeavour would be greatly appreciated. Best Wishes, Steve Dr. Steven J Slater Practitioner and Acupuncturist Mobile: 0418 343 545 chinese_medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Steve, I could only share what has worked for me. I'd suggest starting with the Mitchell-Wiseman Shang Han Lun, and classics such as the Nan Jing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, journal articles are somewhat more difficult, but worth the effort eventually. Paradigm Press has a great series for learning medical Chinese step-by-step, including Wiseman/Feng's " Chinese Medical Chinese " , and a series of character-learning books. Also an important tool is Wenlin, an on-line dictionary for characters that is clear and easy to use. You can even import articles and translate them with this program. On Sep 19, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Steven Slater wrote: > Hi All, > > I have been struggling with the challenge of learning basic Chinese and > medical Chinese in written form for the past several months and have > built an arsenal of characters that I want to put to use in a more > practical way in terms of reading TCM in Chinese. > > Could those who had trodden this path before me, or are currently > attempting this offer any recommendations as far as what Chinese > medical material to tackle first? > > Should I be getting serious about texts such as Wiseman's Shang Han > Lun, journal articles, basic modern TCM texts or the shorter classics > in simplified Chinese? > > I have predominately been concentrating on the simplified characters to > date, but have picked up some of the traditional forms along the way as > well. I realise I will unlimitedly have to tackle the traditional > characters as well to access some important materials in the future, > but I am taking things in baby steps at the moment. > > Any input or advise on options for this endeavour would be greatly > appreciated. > > Best Wishes, > > Steve > > > > Dr. Steven J Slater > Practitioner and Acupuncturist > Mobile: 0418 343 545 > chinese_medicine > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Thank-you Z'ev, Wiseman/feng's Chinese medical Chinese series and the Practical dictionary have been my primary sources for learning characters for medical Chinese in this endeavour. I have been crawling through " Reading & Writing Chinese : A comprehensive guide to the Chinese writing system " to build my basic Chinese vocab. as well (great book by the way). I also have wenlin so I guess I have the basic tools........just need to work on the patience and perseverance side on things now:-) Jason, do you have any advice you could offer a relative newcomer to coming to grips with medical chinese? Thanks again Z'ev. Best Wishes, Steve On 20/09/2004, at 8:11 AM, wrote: > Steve, > I could only share what has worked for me. I'd suggest starting > with > the Mitchell-Wiseman Shang Han Lun, and classics such as the Nan Jing. > As I mentioned in an earlier post, journal articles are somewhat more > difficult, but worth the effort eventually. > > Paradigm Press has a great series for learning medical Chinese > step-by-step, including Wiseman/Feng's " Chinese Medical Chinese " , and a > series of character-learning books. > > Also an important tool is Wenlin, an on-line dictionary for > characters that is clear and easy to use. You can even import articles > and translate them with this program. > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Steven Slater wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have been struggling with the challenge of learning basic Chinese >> and >> medical Chinese in written form for the past several months and have >> built an arsenal of characters that I want to put to use in a more >> practical way in terms of reading TCM in Chinese. >> >> Could those who had trodden this path before me, or are currently >> attempting this offer any recommendations as far as what Chinese >> medical material to tackle first? >> >> Should I be getting serious about texts such as Wiseman's Shang Han >> Lun, journal articles, basic modern TCM texts or the shorter classics >> in simplified Chinese? >> >> I have predominately been concentrating on the simplified characters >> to >> date, but have picked up some of the traditional forms along the way >> as >> well. I realise I will unlimitedly have to tackle the traditional >> characters as well to access some important materials in the future, >> but I am taking things in baby steps at the moment. >> >> Any input or advise on options for this endeavour would be greatly >> appreciated. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> Dr. Steven J Slater >> Practitioner and Acupuncturist >> Mobile: 0418 343 545 >> chinese_medicine >> >> >> > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine > Pacific College of Oriental Medicine > San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 _____ Steven Slater [laozhongyi] Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:13 PM Chinese Medicine Re: First chinese texts to tackle? Thank-you Z'ev, Wiseman/feng's Chinese medical Chinese series and the Practical dictionary have been my primary sources for learning characters for medical Chinese in this endeavour. I have been crawling through " Reading & Writing Chinese : A comprehensive guide to the Chinese writing system " to build my basic Chinese vocab. as well (great book by the way). I also have wenlin so I guess I have the basic tools........just need to work on the patience and perseverance side on things now:-) Jason, do you have any advice you could offer a relative newcomer to coming to grips with medical chinese? [Jason] Well. this is no easy task. It sounds like you have some tools. Basically once you memorize some basic vocab you need to start finding good quality translations that are at your level or interest. I.e. If you want to primarily read classical Chinese - I would check out Unschuld's classical lessons - (neijing etc) - It is though in wades-giles and complex characters. You can also check out of course the SHL. But the problem and real challenge is to start understanding the grammar, albeit modern or classical. If you are interested in modern I suggest getting any modern non-medical language books (emphasizing reading) and your hands on a good grammar book. Same goes for classical - that is try to understand the grammar. This helps immensely, for it is quite easy (especially in classical or pre-modern) to completely understand the translation once it is made evident, but before that looking at the 4 characters usually just leave one scratching one's head. And I can't emphasize get a native speaker to help you! Materia medicas are also a good easy way to start. Hope that helps. Thanks again Z'ev. Best Wishes, Steve On 20/09/2004, at 8:11 AM, wrote: > Steve, > I could only share what has worked for me. I'd suggest starting > with > the Mitchell-Wiseman Shang Han Lun, and classics such as the Nan Jing. > As I mentioned in an earlier post, journal articles are somewhat more > difficult, but worth the effort eventually. > > Paradigm Press has a great series for learning medical Chinese > step-by-step, including Wiseman/Feng's " Chinese Medical Chinese " , and a > series of character-learning books. > > Also an important tool is Wenlin, an on-line dictionary for > characters that is clear and easy to use. You can even import articles > and translate them with this program. > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Steven Slater wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have been struggling with the challenge of learning basic Chinese >> and >> medical Chinese in written form for the past several months and have >> built an arsenal of characters that I want to put to use in a more >> practical way in terms of reading TCM in Chinese. >> >> Could those who had trodden this path before me, or are currently >> attempting this offer any recommendations as far as what Chinese >> medical material to tackle first? >> >> Should I be getting serious about texts such as Wiseman's Shang Han >> Lun, journal articles, basic modern TCM texts or the shorter classics >> in simplified Chinese? >> >> I have predominately been concentrating on the simplified characters >> to >> date, but have picked up some of the traditional forms along the way >> as >> well. I realise I will unlimitedly have to tackle the traditional >> characters as well to access some important materials in the future, >> but I am taking things in baby steps at the moment. >> >> Any input or advise on options for this endeavour would be greatly >> appreciated. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 On 20/09/2004, at 11:03 PM, wrote: > [Jason] > > Well. this is no easy task. It sounds like you have some tools. > Basically > once you memorize some basic vocab you need to start finding good > quality > translations that are at your level or interest. I.e. If you want to > primarily read classical Chinese - I would check out Unschuld's > classical > lessons - (neijing etc) - It is though in wades-giles and complex > characters. You can also check out of course the SHL. But the > problem and > real challenge is to start understanding the grammar, albeit modern or > classical. If you are interested in modern I suggest getting any > modern > non-medical language books (emphasizing reading) and your hands on a > good > grammar book. Same goes for classical - that is try to understand the > grammar. This helps immensely, for it is quite easy (especially in > classical > or pre-modern) to completely understand the translation once it is made > evident, but before that looking at the 4 characters usually just > leave one > scratching one's head. And I can't emphasize get a native speaker to > help > you! Materia medicas are also a good easy way to start. Hope that > helps. > > > Jason, Thanks for the tips. I have a few basic series of Chinese language books eg. chinese readers (2 parts) and " elemtary chinese readers (4 volumes) " but these are more directed towards conversational chinese and grammar notes are scattered and difficult to access. Do you have any texts or series of texts to recommend specifically in the grammar area? Thanks again, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 _____ * Steven Slater [laozhongyi] Jason, Thanks for the tips. I have a few basic series of Chinese language books eg. chinese readers (2 parts) and " elemtary chinese readers (4 volumes) " but these are more directed towards conversational chinese and grammar notes are scattered and difficult to access. Do you have any texts or series of texts to recommend specifically in the grammar area? [Jason] Unfortunately the language books I learned from are no longer in print. Also once you get the basics you should definitely check out Unshculd's Learn to read Chinese. They are a bit advanced but he explains the grammar very well (this is though if you are interested in modern). Any grammar book like yip po ching's are good for general information. You should buy a few. -Jason .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Steven Slater wrote: >Hi All, > >I have been struggling with the challenge of learning basic Chinese and >medical Chinese in written form for the past several months and have >built an arsenal of characters that I want to put to use in a more >practical way in terms of reading TCM in Chinese. > > > Hi Steven Slater, I too am a beginner, though I have been picking up and struggling for a long while without any other fellow studiers around. Of Wiseman's new books, the Grammar one is the most helpful for me, I didn't start with the grammar though, but in the vocabulary section a bit later in. The Wenlin program is extremly helpful!! The translation is very easy and the flashcard are very helpful. I am curious how far you are along. I am willing to be a practice buddy or support. Rozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi Rozz, I also concentrate on the vocab of Wiseman's " Grammar and Vocabulary " at the moment and the first volume of the " character " books. It seems at times you need a degree in linguistics to digest the Grammar section and much of Wiseman's writings on the " theory " of Chinese language. After several readings it is starting to come together as I brush up on all the linguistic terminology I learnt in primary school but seem to have forgotten as I age;-) Feel free to contact me off list regarding sharing the struggle. Best Wishes, Steve On 21/09/2004, at 4:37 AM, Rozz Lieght wrote: > Steven Slater wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have been struggling with the challenge of learning basic Chinese >> and >> medical Chinese in written form for the past several months and have >> built an arsenal of characters that I want to put to use in a more >> practical way in terms of reading TCM in Chinese. >> >> >> > Hi Steven Slater, > > I too am a beginner, though I have been picking up and struggling for a > long while without any other fellow studiers around. Of Wiseman's new > books, the Grammar one is the most helpful for me, I didn't start with > the grammar though, but in the vocabulary section a bit later in. > > The Wenlin program is extremly helpful!! The translation is very easy > and the flashcard are very helpful. > > I am curious how far you are along. I am willing to be a practice buddy > or support. > > Rozz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Hi Steve and Rozz, I've been watching and learning from this list for some time, but this is my first contribution. So, methinks I should give a brief introduction. I learned Chinese and was nearly fluent before I started studying acupuncture and Chinese medicine, which was in 1984. In 1986 I attended the advanced acupuncture training course in Nanjing, and have read more about Chinese medicine in Chinese than in English. As events worked out, I never became licensed to practice, but in the last 10 years I have been doing an increasing amount of work translating and editing books on Chinese medicine. (For example, I'm the Series Editor for Paradigm's Character Book Series -- the one that you have been working with.) First, it is good to hear that you seem to like the Character Books. Volume Two should be on the shelves any time soon, and if all goes well the other three volumes could be available within the next year. Second, I strongly encourage you to keep learning individual characters for some time. Trying to learn Chinese grammar without having lots of characters already in mind is possibly similar to learning how to bake without having ingredients. And, once you know lots of characters, the grammar is quite easy to pick up. Before the rest of the Character Series becomes available (and even after you have completed the Series), you would do well to glean characters from the many CM books that provide the characters for important terms. When you find a character or phrase you want to learn, be sure to commit it to a list, or make a flashcard for it, so that you can review it periodically. Once such a list grows to 1,000 characters or maybe 1500, you will reach the point where you already have a sense of what many of the other characters mean, and at that point you can stop keeping track of which characters you have and have not studied. Third, be sure to start learning character combinations and phrases, as getting a feel for these is the next step towards learning sentences. Fourth, read read read. That is, find a text and every day spend some time reading the characters at the same speed you would use to read a newspaper. Occasionally slow down to circle characters that you have already studied, but make a habit of reading along as if you understand what you are reading. This custom will help you to review the characters you have already learned, and preview the characters you will need to learn next. To my mind, you could do this with virtually any text on Chinese medicine, but it is much better to get one that deals with the traditional practice of CM as opposed to one that deals with integrated CM and WM. If you have a Chinese friend in the CM community who can help you lay hands on such a book, that would be best. If you would like to contact me off the list, I could help you find something appropriate. Best wishes, Michael Helme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Michael, Many thanks on the great advice! I will contact you off-list regarding some texts to get my hands on. Thanks again, Steve On 22/09/2004, at 5:37 AM, helm3e wrote: > First, it is good to hear that you seem to like the Character Books. > Volume Two should be on the shelves any time soon, and if all goes > well the other three volumes could be available within the next year. > > Second, I strongly encourage you to keep learning individual > characters for some time. Trying to learn Chinese grammar without > having lots of characters already in mind is possibly similar to > learning how to bake without having ingredients. And, once you know > lots of characters, the grammar is quite easy to pick up. > > Before the rest of the Character Series becomes available (and even > after you have completed the Series), you would do well to glean > characters from the many CM books that provide the characters for > important terms. When you find a character or phrase you want to > learn, be sure to commit it to a list, or make a flashcard for it, so > that you can review it periodically. Once such a list grows to 1,000 > characters or maybe 1500, you will reach the point where you already > have a sense of what many of the other characters mean, and at that > point you can stop keeping track of which characters you have and > have not studied. > > Third, be sure to start learning character combinations and phrases, > as getting a feel for these is the next step towards learning > sentences. > > Fourth, read read read. That is, find a text and every day spend some > time reading the characters at the same speed you would use to read a > newspaper. Occasionally slow down to circle characters that you have > already studied, but make a habit of reading along as if you > understand what you are reading. This custom will help you to review > the characters you have already learned, and preview the characters > you will need to learn next. > > To my mind, you could do this with virtually any text on Chinese > medicine, but it is much better to get one that deals with the > traditional practice of CM as opposed to one that deals with > integrated CM and WM. If you have a Chinese friend in the CM > community who can help you lay hands on such a book, that would be > best. If you would like to contact me off the list, I could help you > find something appropriate. > > Best wishes, > > Michael Helme > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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