Take caution when facing someone with extremely negative Qi

September 14, 2004

Hi Mike, & All,

Mike Liaw wrote:

> Dermot, It's not weird. I share the same experience in using Qi

> Gong in acupuncture. I do take caution when facing someone with

> extremely negative Qi. (You will see what I mean when you encounter

> one, if you haven't already run into it.) Mike L.

Mike, (and others interested), could you elaborate, please?

The topic of handling (being able to protect oneself from) strong

negative Qi is relevant for colleagues on LIKEMList (a sister-List).

May I have your permission to cross-post your reply there?

Best regards,

Email: <

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

September 14, 2004

Phil,

One of the first things you should learn when studying Medical Qigong is how

to avoid invasion of Shi Qi (Evil Qi/Negative Qi) from patients.

In some texts they talk about the Wu Zang Meditation to help achieve this

protection.

Here is more info I've drawn together about this...

-

Medical Qigong and the Acupuncture Clinic

Avoiding Qi Depletion in the Acupuncture or Medical Qigong Clinic

Because therapy consumes energy, as long as the practitioner's quantity of

energy is higher than that of the patient's, the doctor can transmit energy

into the patient with no ill effect. If however, the practitioner is very

tired or depleted and tries to treat a patient, the energy of the

practitioner may become weaker than that of the patient. This same

principle applies to both acupuncturists and Qigong practitioners alike.

It is important to note that energy currents flow from high to low (much

like water). Therefore, the practitioner may if in a weakened state, absorb

the Turbid or Evil (Shi) Qi or disease energies from the patient. Any

imbalance in the practitioner's organ system can increase the doctor's

vulnerability to foreign pathogens. These pathogenic sensations may also be

transmitted into the body of healthy people, or other patients as well.

When treating patients the Qigong or Acupuncture practitioner receives and

diagnoses information from the six windows of the body - eyes, ears, nose,

tongue, body, Spirit. Through this action of diagnosis, the practitioner

naturally depletes Qi. Any imbalance due to organ depletion will cause the

doctor to absorb Evil Qi from the patient. This Evil Qi can move within the

doctor's body causing Qi deviations, especially if it mixes with the doctor'

s Clear Qi.

1. If the Upper Dantian is invaded symptoms of mental fatigue,

dizziness and headaches will arise.

2. If the Middle Dantian is invaded symptoms of emotional fatigue and

discomfort in the Middle Jiao region will arise.

3. If the Lower Dantian is invaded the symptoms will include physical

fatigue, cold in the extremities, discomfort in the lower abdomen will

arise.

This is why Chinese Doctors should constantly refill and rebalance

themselves energetically. It has been observed that when the Qigong or

Acupuncture practitioner has ingested the patient's pathogens, and a Qi

deviation has resulted, no Western doctor, acupuncturist, or herbalist can

help and it is only the practitioner with the Qi deviation who can change

the Evil Qi back into Clear Qi by using divine energy and purging the body's

Shen, Qi and finally Jing. This supports the practitioner's Righteous Qi

and fights the invasions of the patient's pathogens.

If the Qigong or Acupuncture practitioner recognises that they are in a

state of depletion they should avoid the possibility of Evil Qi invasion.

This will involve:

· Treating less patients

· Maintaining a consistently healthy diet

· Receiving frequent exposure to fresh air and sunlight

· Performing Regulating and Organ Strengthening Qigong exercises

between patients

· Washing hands between patients in room temperature water

o Cold water is harmful to Wei Qi fields as it shocks the system

o Hot water opens the channels and can drive Evil Qi deeper into the

body

· If the practitioner senses Evil Qi invasion during treatment -

usually entering through Du 20, CV 17, GB 20, Yintang, or Kd 1 they should

stop treatment and perform a " closing " by flicking the fingers, wrists and

shaking the arms until all sensation of discomfort has been eliminated

Wu Zang (Five Organ) Meditation for Energetic Protection

The Yellow Emperor's Classics on Internal Medicine states that before

treating patients of any kind, the doctor should first perform the Wu Zang

Energy Meditation. It encouraged doctors to practice this meditation before

treating patients in a clinical environment and before entering the

treatment room, because it surrounds them with a strong field of protective

Qi (Wei Qi)

The focus of the meditation is to extend each of the five organs' energy far

into the horizon to gather Qi.

1.. Start by focusing on the centre of the body. Imagine opening the

Baihui point (at the top of the head) and begin to pull in the Qi from the

Heavens. Imagine the divine light as a bright shining white light,

illuminating and filling your entire body through the Baihui. Feel the body

radiating this divine white light energy. Next imagine this white light

energy coalescing into the body's centre core, forming an energetic tube of

Heavenly Energy that extends from the Baihui point down to the Huiyin point.

The centre core vibrates and resonates with the Divine white light energy.

2.. Now imagine a golden yellow mist of Qi arising from under the Earth

and filling your body and connecting with the Spleen organ. Next, feel this

golden light Earth energy envelop the centre core of the divine white light

energy, merging together and synergising. This represents the energy of your

Yi (Intention), to root and stabilise your power.

3.. Begin to focus to your Heart and imagine a portal opening and the Qi

flowing out of your Heart like a red swirling wind in front of you, full of

power, protecting you with your Shen and the fire of a red phoenix. This

represents your inate spirit, alive, graceful yet powerful.

4.. Focus your attention on your back and the Kidneys and Mingmen area.

Imagine a portal opening and the Qi flowing out of your Mingmen behind you

like water. Out of this water grows an enormous dark blue turtle, whose

shell protects you like a mighty shield. This represents the energy of your

Zhi (Will power), and the Jing and Zhi of all your ancestors, backing you

and supporting you.

5.. Place your attention on your Lungs and visualise a portal opening on

the right side of your body, under the right ribs. Imagine the Lung Qi

flowing out of to the right side of your body like steam, forming a white

tiger, as strong as steel. This represents the Po and the body's animal

nature, the guards and protects you with an animal passion for survival.

6.. Next, place your attention on your Liver and visualise a portal

opening on your left side under the left ribs. Imagine the Liver Qi flowing

out of to the left of your body like steam, forming a green dragon, sinewy

and resilient as bamboo. This represents the Hun and the body's divine

nature, guarding and protecting you with a spiritual passion for victory.

7.. Each animal begins to rotate to the left, protecting, stalking, and

defending the previous animal's position. Slowly begin to circle these

energies, then increase their speed (like a mighty wind) counterclockwise

around your body, blending these colours together - red, green, blue, white

to form an energy bubble.

After forming a protective rainbow hue around your body, draw the energies

back in the Baihui point and return the energy of each organ colour back to

its origin (the colour red returns back to the Heart, dark blue to the

Kidneys, white to the Lungs, and green back to the Liver). As the colours

return back to their organ of origin, imagine steam (white light) flowing

out of the pores and filling up the energy bubble created by the animal

rotation. This forms a solid connection between the body's internal organs

and the body's external field of energy.

When the protection of the body with the Five Elements is done, imagine that

there are many sparkling lights like a halo above your head. Then you can

enter the clinical room knowing that you are safe and protected.

Kind regards

Dermot

-

" " <

Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:44 PM

Take caution when facing someone with extremely negative Qi

> Hi Mike, & All,

>

> Mike Liaw wrote:

> > Dermot, It's not weird. I share the same experience in using Qi

> > Gong in acupuncture. I do take caution when facing someone with

> > extremely negative Qi. (You will see what I mean when you encounter

> > one, if you haven't already run into it.) Mike L.

>

> Mike, (and others interested), could you elaborate, please?

>

> The topic of handling (being able to protect oneself from) strong

> negative Qi is relevant for colleagues on LIKEMList (a sister-List).

>

> May I have your permission to cross-post your reply there?

>

> Best regards,

>

> Email: <

>

> WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

> Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

> WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

>

> Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man

doing it "

>

http://babel.altavista.com/

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

> If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

>

September 14, 2004

Hi,

There are two things that I have been taught to do in order to protect

myself from absorbing " negative " qi (waste qi) from a client.

The first thing I do is " clear " the negative qi from the client using

a couple of different techniques. It is sort of like pulling " cold qi "

from the client. This is in preparation for " sharing " qi. Optimally,

the " cold qi " should feel " warmer " before qi is shared. This is an

indication that the client's negative qi has been reduced to a " safe "

level.

The second thing I do is begin " full body breathing " so that the

direction (intent) of qi is from the " outside " of my own body into the

direction of the client. I practice " full body qigong breathing " on a

daily basis. I do not really try to " emit " qi. I allow the client to

" draw " as much as the client desires and the client stops whenever

there is enough. The qi is coming from the outside of my body, into my

body (where it is transformed) and then can be drawn upon by my client.

The purpose of this approach is to " jump start " the qi, since the

" cold qi " has been removed, and get it moving again. I am not trying

to " balance " anything. I am merely facilitating the unblocking of

energetic obstructions (the cold qi) and assisting my client in moving

warm qi through my client's body again. I allow my client to his/her

natural energetic balance as it may exist at that time.

While I have very strong qi, because of my 20 years qigong and taiji

practice, there have been a couple of times when the negative qi has

'backed up " into me. It was because I did not fully follow this

procedure because I was in haste. Each time I learn a lesson. :-)

Once, my body broke out in a short spontaneous sweat which

automatically cleared the negative qi from my body.

If the " cold qi " is cleared, the potential for negative qi entering my

body is much, much less. Even my teacher forgets sometimes. :-) But

that is how he learns.

Regards,

Rich

September 14, 2004

Phil,

Sorry about the short reply but I have really limited time.

Fortunately, what Dermot has here is excellent! It's extremely close

to what I practice. Thanks, Dermot, for answering Phil's question.

A few comments:

- Besides fresh air and sun light, I also look for pine trees.

Doing Qi Gong exercise along side these trees with

longevity potential are considered good for health.

This is almost common knowledge among the Chinese.

- About Evil Qi: I am not sure which character " Shi " Qi refers to

in Chinese, but I thought it should be " Xie Qi. " What Rich

often refers to as " Cold " Qi is only one type of Xie Qi.

- If one is already very tired, do NOT do any treatment

before having a few minutes of breaks to " refill " and rebalance

oneself. Usually 3 ~ 10 minutes is enough. A better strategy

is to be always on the guard and replenish while giving

Qi away, but even a very experienced practitioner may

forget and run into this.

- If one does not know how to expel the Evil Qi out of one's own

body, better not treat others with " Intent " or Qi Gong.

I don't mind your forwarding to other lists for what I wrote as I

didnt' really contribute whole lot, but you'll have to check with

Dermot for his contribution here.

Mike L.

September 15, 2004

Thank you Mike.....no problem if you want to forward this to the other list

Phil.

Regards

Dermot

-

" Mike Liaw " <mikeliaw

Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:07 PM

Re: Take caution when facing someone with extremely negative

Qi

> Phil,

>

> Sorry about the short reply but I have really limited time.

>

> Fortunately, what Dermot has here is excellent! It's extremely close

> to what I practice. Thanks, Dermot, for answering Phil's question.

>

September 15, 2004

Hi Mike,

> What Rich often refers to as " Cold " Qi is only one type of Xie Qi.

I think of " qi " as either one type or an infinite types. In the

continuum, it can be anywhere from " not moving " (the apex of the

pendulum) to moving very fast (just before the apex). As qi becomes

more " still " , it can be said to be " colder " - sort of like water

turning to ice). As qi increases in movement it can be said to become

" warmer " . This of course is the yin/yang aspects of qi. So the " cold "

and " warm " qi is relative and there are an infinite number of

gradations of these two qualities.

One can call each of these " gradations " by a different name if one

wishes - for example cool qi, cold qi, very cold, frozen, etc - but

the way I look at it they are essentially all the same. There is only

one qi and it can relatively " colder " (less movement) or " warmer "

(more movement).

I also, try not to put additional quality aspects to qi such as

" evil " . I just think of it as " cold " (relative to myself) or warm

(relative to myself) since this is all that I can really experience.

Now it is possible for " cold qi " to enter into my body and make my qi

cooler, and therefore create obstructions - just like ice from one

body of water can enter into another. My mind can either prevent the

cold qi from entering (with a strong and warm Wei Qi barrier) or it

can expel the cold qi once it gets into my body, assuming that my qi

is fast enough (warm enough) to do this before the cold qi can do harm

and cause further blockages.

Using the above reasoning, it is not necessary in the model I use to

create any more variations of qi. However, I recognize it may be

helpful in other models.

Regards,

Rich

September 15, 2004

>Dermot O'Connor <dermot wrote:It has been >observed

that when the Qigong or Acupuncture practitioner has >ingested the patient's

pathogens, and a Qi deviation has >resulted, no Western doctor, acupuncturist,

or herbalist can

>help and it is only the practitioner with the Qi deviation who >can change the

Evil Qi back into Clear Qi by using divine >energy and purging the body's shen,

Qi and finally Jing. This >supports the practitioner's Righteous Qi and fights

the >invasions of the patient's pathogens.

Dear Dermot, I knew it could happen, and it is just as you say. This dialog

could take place on a magician's list. This has happened to me for the first

time in my life, just a month ago. It was a combination of being over-extended,

too little sleep, not enough personal prayerful energy gathering and smoothing

and giving time , and ignoring my intuition about the natures of the energies

hiding in the person and treating them anyway. These things resemble a

subconcious sorcerer's duel sometimes. I should go into retreat, but now I have

to retrain the leg channel. Nothing else is working. My inner 'gods' won't

operate without the offering of awareness. One interesting thing is that this

injury is leading me deeper into the junction of will, qi, peace or clarity of

mind, and motor movement. It is a revelation, but with a big price. It is that

way often I guess.

September 15, 2004

In a message dated 9/15/04 1:24:17 AM, rfinkelstein writes:

<< I also, try not to put additional quality aspects to qi such as

" evil " . >>

This is an idea I think we all should adopt. To use terms like " evil " not

only makes us sounds terribly antiquated, but also is an inanppropriate label

(IMO) to apply to a patient (or their qi).

---roseanne

September 15, 2004

In a message dated 9/15/04 10:33:33 AM, zrosenbe writes:

<< Sorry,

But this is what Chinese medicine says about any qi that violates a

person's zheng qi/correct or upright qi. Xie qi/evil (or pathogenic)

qi describes processes caused by exposures to conditions that

compromise a person's health. It does not describe the person as an

entity.

>>

Z'ev,

I understand the concept, and I don't have a problem with using the

terminolgy " pathogenic " . But I don't think " evil " is the best terminology in

this day

and age. we may understand the limits of how we are using the word " evil " but

the rest of the world may not.

-roseanne

September 15, 2004

I don't believe that any Qi is evil....just sometimes harmful and lest there

is any confusion I never applied the label evil to a patient.

Kind regards

Dermot

-

<ra6151

Wednesday, September 15, 2004 12:43 PM

Re: Take caution when facing someone with extremely negative

Qi

>

> In a message dated 9/15/04 1:24:17 AM, rfinkelstein writes:

>

> << I also, try not to put additional quality aspects to qi such as

>

> " evil " . >>

>

> This is an idea I think we all should adopt. To use terms like " evil " not

> only makes us sounds terribly antiquated, but also is an inanppropriate

label

> (IMO) to apply to a patient (or their qi).

>

> ---roseanne

September 15, 2004

Dear Roseanne and Dermot,

I agree. I believe that there is only one " qi " and it can take many

forms like the waves in the ocean. Some waves may be moving faster

(warmer) than others (colder). Some may be causing greater harm to

other waves :-) and need to be modulated (regulated) and integrated

(harmonized)with other waves. And different tools (modalities) can be

used to create different waves. It's like children playing in the ocean.

Regards,

Rich

September 15, 2004

Sorry,

But this is what Chinese medicine says about any qi that violates a

person's zheng qi/correct or upright qi. Xie qi/evil (or pathogenic)

qi describes processes caused by exposures to conditions that

compromise a person's health. It does not describe the person as an

entity.

On Sep 15, 2004, at 4:43 AM, ra6151 wrote:

> << I also, try not to put additional quality aspects to qi such as

>

> " evil " . >>

>

> This is an idea I think we all should adopt. To use terms like " evil "

> not

> only makes us sounds terribly antiquated, but also is an

> inanppropriate label

> (IMO) to apply to a patient (or their qi).

>

> ---roseanne

>

September 15, 2004

Rich,

First of all, Xie Qi is used extensively in Nei Jing. Z'ev's note said all I

wanted to say.

(Thanks, Z'ev!) We are discussing in a medical context here.

On " cold " Qi, I have to disagree that the cold-warm gradation is the only

dimension

to Xie Qi, unless you expanded the meaning of " cold. " Let me try it in a

different

way to see if helps. If you were not to use the hands or body's sense of

temperature

to diagnose the patient (E.g, Four Diagnosis without the last, to touch or

sensing

temperature without touching) will you be able to detect Xie Qi?

Mike L.

Rich <rfinkelstein wrote: