Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hello again folks. I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so far I haven't come across this topic. I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are quite a few of these " healing touch " type practices going around. the thing i don't like about them, or rather the reason I study and practice Chinese Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system of medicine, whereas Reiki and such are useful but simply not really satisfactory to me in terms of their philosophical and theoretical foundations, and range of diagnostic methods and treatments. Ok I haven't really stated exactly what I feel there, and I don't want to offend anyone (I've met a couple of skilled Reiki practitioners and I think it's great stuff), so let me just get on to what I really want to know! I have read about Qigong treatment as part of , I know there are Qigong research centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone here have any experience with practitioners of Qigong healing in ? there is a book called " mastering miracles " about a guy who lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking at people and can " see " blockages in meridians.... Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the hands and find it quite likely that it can be transferred without touch as well but are there practitioners out there for whom it is more effective to use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or physical manipulation? Simon Thakur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hi Simon, Chinese Medicine , " wackname " <wackname> wrote: > Hello again folks. > > I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so far I haven't come across this topic. There have been some previous threads where qigong had been discussed. You may find these threads interesting so keep hunting. :-) > > I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are quite a few of >these " healing touch " type practices > going around. the thing i don't like about them, or rather the reason I study and practice Chinese > Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system of medicine, Yes, this is also what attract me to . However, we need to distinguish TCM from CM and the way TCM is practiced today - even in China. The Chinese government (which has its own agenda) had split apart qigong (energetic practice) from tuina (physical bodywork practice) from acupunture/herbalism (indirect energetic pactice). While all practices are considered equal, they are seperated in hospitals and most practitioners are only taught one. I believe this is one of the great problems with especially since most practitioners gravitate toward acupuncture and herbs which is easy to apply - a practitioner can work with many patients simultaneously - but as a modality insufficient in many cases. Particularly where there are large physical or energetic blockages. I wrote a short description on this problem under a thread call Tom Tam Healing System. Tom Tam is trained in all modalities and uses them in his practice. He sells a book by the same name and gives seminars throughout the year. > > I have read about Qigong treatment as part of , I know there are Qigong research > centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone here have any experience with practitioners of > Qigong healing in ? Yes, my practitioner uses tuina and qigong exclusively in his practice with excellent results. He practiced and taught tuina (or Amma as he prefers to call it), and qigong in China for over 30 years. He was family (country) trained but also received formal education so that he could practice in TCM hospitals. Many (most) of his current patients are those who have tried acupuncture and herbs (as did my family for 15 years) and hit a " brick wall " in terms of results. Most often, I have noticed, problems that arise in an obstructed spine (physical and energetic) can cause very substantial health issues. Whereas the acupuncture/herbalists never even looked at this issue, it was the first place that my current practitioner looked at. Among Asian bodywork traditions, e.g Tuina, Shiatsu, Thai Massage, etc., the spine is considered critical since it is the primary conduit for information and energy. Blockages in the verterbrae will effect the whole body and no matter what one does in the organs or meridians, if the spine isn't free of blockages, the problems will persist. This is the theory. > there is a book called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking at people and can " see " blockages in meridians.... This is beyond my own level of abilities or experience, though I believe it is possible. The practitioner that I go to has 30 years of experience and can " diagnose " problems very quickly. Usually it is related to the spine - either inherited or acquired blockages, what he calls " cold qi " . But he can notice problems in other areas usually by visual or energetic (i.e., feeling " cold qi " ) inspection. This is an area where I am getting more proficient as time goes on. > > Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the hands and find it quite likely that it can be > transferred without touch as well but are there practitioners out there for whom it is more effective to > use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or physical manipulation? Yes, since we began going to our tuina/qigong practitioner we have had no reason to use herbs or acupunture. Direct physical and energetic contact seems to be enough. But our practitioner has begun to cut down the time he spends with each client in order to increase the number of people he sees each day. At one time he was spending about 1 hour with each patient. Now it is down to about 35-40 minutes. This has substantial effect on the process since I have found that 50 minutes to an hour is the minimum amount of time required for a good tuina/qigong session. For a new person possibly 1.5 hours. So there is a practical side to tuina/qigong practice. That is, the compromise between how much time a patient needs vs. how much time the pracitioner wishes to spend with a patient. The same is true for all medical modalities. Acupuncturists and herbalists can see many more patients each day because of the nature of the modality. However, I do know of acupuncturists who spend more time with each patient, use palpation and other similar sensory reactions to determine the needling process. I hope you find this point of view interesting. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 There's a book called " the healing art of qigong " by hong liu. He does this type of diagnosis, and one of my taiji instructors has studied with him and verifies that the stories in the book are true. He sits down with a person, looks at them, draws a stick figure and puts an X where the problem area(s) is. The book doesn't get into the details of how he treats the meridian blockages, but sometimes he does use needles and often there will be a person who will use qigong to transmit qi to the needles during treatment. This increases the effectiveness and frees him up to address other people. He also uses qigong by direct hand contact. The last I heard he was in the thousand oaks area in LA. > > > there is a book called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking at people and > can " see " blockages in meridians.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 This diagnosis method sounds not unlike those used by Carolyn Myss and other medical " intuitives. " Not that uncommon. But what to do next is the real question. Pat There's a book called " the healing art of qigong " by hong liu. He does this type of diagnosis, and one of my taiji instructors has studied with him and verifies that the stories in the book are true. He sits down with a person, looks at them, draws a stick figure and puts an X where the problem area(s) is. The book doesn't get into the details of how he treats the meridian blockages, but sometimes he does use needles and often there will be a person who will use qigong to transmit qi to the needles during treatment. This increases the effectiveness and frees him up to address other people. He also uses qigong by direct hand contact. The last I heard he was in the thousand oaks area in LA. > > > there is a book called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking at people and > can " see " blockages in meridians.... > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Rich, Could you mention a few diseases that you feel are better handled with qi-gong vs acu / herbs? -Jason _____ Rich [rfinkelstein] Monday, September 13, 2004 6:38 AM Chinese Medicine Re: " External Qigong " Hi Simon, Chinese Medicine , " wackname " <wackname> wrote: > Hello again folks. > > I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so far I haven't come across this topic. There have been some previous threads where qigong had been discussed. You may find these threads interesting so keep hunting. :-) > > I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are quite a few of >these " healing touch " type practices > going around. the thing i don't like about them, or rather the reason I study and practice Chinese > Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system of medicine, Yes, this is also what attract me to . However, we need to distinguish TCM from CM and the way TCM is practiced today - even in China. The Chinese government (which has its own agenda) had split apart qigong (energetic practice) from tuina (physical bodywork practice) from acupunture/herbalism (indirect energetic pactice). While all practices are considered equal, they are seperated in hospitals and most practitioners are only taught one. I believe this is one of the great problems with especially since most practitioners gravitate toward acupuncture and herbs which is easy to apply - a practitioner can work with many patients simultaneously - but as a modality insufficient in many cases. Particularly where there are large physical or energetic blockages. I wrote a short description on this problem under a thread call Tom Tam Healing System. Tom Tam is trained in all modalities and uses them in his practice. He sells a book by the same name and gives seminars throughout the year. > > I have read about Qigong treatment as part of , I know there are Qigong research > centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone here have any experience with practitioners of > Qigong healing in ? Yes, my practitioner uses tuina and qigong exclusively in his practice with excellent results. He practiced and taught tuina (or Amma as he prefers to call it), and qigong in China for over 30 years. He was family (country) trained but also received formal education so that he could practice in TCM hospitals. Many (most) of his current patients are those who have tried acupuncture and herbs (as did my family for 15 years) and hit a " brick wall " in terms of results. Most often, I have noticed, problems that arise in an obstructed spine (physical and energetic) can cause very substantial health issues. Whereas the acupuncture/herbalists never even looked at this issue, it was the first place that my current practitioner looked at. Among Asian bodywork traditions, e.g Tuina, Shiatsu, Thai Massage, etc., the spine is considered critical since it is the primary conduit for information and energy. Blockages in the verterbrae will effect the whole body and no matter what one does in the organs or meridians, if the spine isn't free of blockages, the problems will persist. This is the theory. > there is a book called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking at people and can " see " blockages in meridians.... This is beyond my own level of abilities or experience, though I believe it is possible. The practitioner that I go to has 30 years of experience and can " diagnose " problems very quickly. Usually it is related to the spine - either inherited or acquired blockages, what he calls " cold qi " . But he can notice problems in other areas usually by visual or energetic (i.e., feeling " cold qi " ) inspection. This is an area where I am getting more proficient as time goes on. > > Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the hands and find it quite likely that it can be > transferred without touch as well but are there practitioners out there for whom it is more effective to > use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or physical manipulation? Yes, since we began going to our tuina/qigong practitioner we have had no reason to use herbs or acupunture. Direct physical and energetic contact seems to be enough. But our practitioner has begun to cut down the time he spends with each client in order to increase the number of people he sees each day. At one time he was spending about 1 hour with each patient. Now it is down to about 35-40 minutes. This has substantial effect on the process since I have found that 50 minutes to an hour is the minimum amount of time required for a good tuina/qigong session. For a new person possibly 1.5 hours. So there is a practical side to tuina/qigong practice. That is, the compromise between how much time a patient needs vs. how much time the pracitioner wishes to spend with a patient. The same is true for all medical modalities. Acupuncturists and herbalists can see many more patients each day because of the nature of the modality. However, I do know of acupuncturists who spend more time with each patient, use palpation and other similar sensory reactions to determine the needling process. I hope you find this point of view interesting. Regards, Rich http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hello Simon and all, I've found a few sources for qigong therapy outside of school. We learned basic qigong therapy in our classes at OCOM. I got a lot more out of " Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy " by Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson. It's 1100+ pp. of pure qigong fun! It includes history, theory, techniques and application for specific conditions. www.qigongmedicine.com In my practice I use qigong on about 90% of clients with their acupuncture. Occasionally I give a qigong only treatment. It's also nice to give qi to a formula or salve before giving to the client. I think it enhances all therapies Gary Bondurant --- wackname <wackname wrote: > Hello again folks. > > I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so > far I haven't come across this topic. > > I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are > quite a few of these " healing touch " type practices > going around. the thing i don't like about them, or > rather the reason I study and practice Chinese > Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system > of medicine, whereas Reiki and such are useful but > simply not really satisfactory to me in terms of > their philosophical and theoretical foundations, and > > range of diagnostic methods and treatments. Ok I > haven't really stated exactly what I feel there, and > I > don't want to offend anyone (I've met a couple of > skilled Reiki practitioners and I think it's great > stuff), > so let me just get on to what I really want to know! > > I have read about Qigong treatment as part of > , I know there are Qigong research > centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone > here have any experience with practitioners of > Qigong healing in ? there is a book > called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking > at people and can " see " blockages in > meridians.... > > Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the > hands and find it quite likely that it can be > transferred without touch as well but are there > practitioners out there for whom it is more > effective to > use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or > physical manipulation? > > > Simon Thakur > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hi Jason, I do not classify " diseases " since to me they are all the same - manifestations of blockages. I have visited practitioners who solely utilize acupunture and, like many of my friends, found the results to be " temporary " . I believe there are many reasons for this temporary effect. I have visited various type of bodywork practitioners with mixed results. I believe it is because it is not sufficient to treat " blockages " solely at the physical level. While the physical is a manifestation of the energetic, it is sometimes better to treat the energetic directly. Sort of like cleaning out water. It is one thing to clean out the " large sludge " that is blocking the water from flowing freely, but it also necessary to use a finer filter at times to get at the smaller particles. I have also been to qigong practitioners who also have had good success under certain circumstances, but had very little effect when substantial " physical blockages " were present, particularly in the spine. The best results I have seen are when the physical and energetic layer are treated simulataneously. The best situation being when the client/patient performs physical and breath oriented qigong exercise daily at home. I have observed the following types of problems solved in specific individuals where acupunture alone provided only temporary relief but were sucessfully treated using tuina/qigong: 1) Inability to sleep 2) Inability to walk (individual was able to forego surgery) 3) Ovarian cysts 4) Schizophrenia 5) Arthritis 6) Bursitis 7) Overweight conditions 8) Allergies 9) High blood pressure 10) Infertility There have been many other circumstances. Some of the problems are " uncategorizable " . In all of these cases, the " root cause " could be traced to problems with the spine which acupuncture apparently had no affect on. Obstructions could be physical obstructions, e.g., an accident, or energetic obstructions, e.g., " inherited cold qi " . There is absolutley no question among my many friends and aquaintences that the combination of tuina/qigong is more effective than acupunture alone. I know of acupunturists and bodyworkers who have been treated by tuina/qigong and are now expanding their practice to include these modalities. It is not necessarily lucratice - because of the time required - but it is effective. Brian's reference to Tom Tam's Healing system confirmed that others, who practice all of these modalities, have come to the same conclusion. Regards, Rich Chinese Medicine , " " <@c...> wrote: > Rich, > > > > Could you mention a few diseases that you feel are better handled with > qi-gong vs acu / herbs? > > > > -Jason > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yes Gary, Dr Johnson is my teacher and the question of which therapy is better Medical Qigong (MQ) or acupuncture, really doesn't make sense to me, with my understanding of this branch of . If you are an acupuncturist, tuina practitioner or even a herbalist who practices Medical Qigong your will always use the techniques of MQ within these seperate modalities. Once you learn it you don't switch it off. In otherwords you will always needle, massage and even form prescriptions with Intention. I have to say defining all illnesses as manifestations of blockages seems just too loose for me. I never see acupuncture as a temporary solution, but I do feel that Medical Qigong enhances considerably the effectiveness of acupuncture treatment. Does this all sound weird? Dermot - " Gary Bondurant, L.Ac. " <gheradus <Chinese Medicine > Monday, September 13, 2004 9:09 PM Re: " External Qigong " > Hello Simon and all, > > I've found a few sources for qigong therapy outside of > school. We learned basic qigong therapy in our classes > at OCOM. I got a lot more out of " Chinese Medical > Qigong Therapy " by Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson. It's > 1100+ pp. of pure qigong fun! It includes history, > theory, techniques and application for specific > conditions. > > www.qigongmedicine.com > > In my practice I use qigong on about 90% of clients > with their acupuncture. Occasionally I give a qigong > only treatment. It's also nice to give qi to a > formula or salve before giving to the client. I think > it enhances all therapies > > Gary Bondurant > > --- wackname <wackname wrote: > > > Hello again folks. > > > > I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so > > far I haven't come across this topic. > > > > I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are > > quite a few of these " healing touch " type practices > > going around. the thing i don't like about them, or > > rather the reason I study and practice Chinese > > Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system > > of medicine, whereas Reiki and such are useful but > > simply not really satisfactory to me in terms of > > their philosophical and theoretical foundations, and > > > > range of diagnostic methods and treatments. Ok I > > haven't really stated exactly what I feel there, and > > I > > don't want to offend anyone (I've met a couple of > > skilled Reiki practitioners and I think it's great > > stuff), > > so let me just get on to what I really want to know! > > > > I have read about Qigong treatment as part of > > , I know there are Qigong research > > centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone > > here have any experience with practitioners of > > Qigong healing in ? there is a book > > called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking > > at people and can " see " blockages in > > meridians.... > > > > Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the > > hands and find it quite likely that it can be > > transferred without touch as well but are there > > practitioners out there for whom it is more > > effective to > > use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or > > physical manipulation? > > > > > > Simon Thakur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hi Dermot, > > I have to say defining all illnesses as manifestations of blockages > seems just too loose for me. But it may be as simple as that. I kind of figured it out by observing my tuina/qigong practitioner and by understanding the nature of yin/yang and qi - free flowing waves of warm energy. The basic proposition is that the body can heal and repair itself if it is allowed to do so - i.e. no blockages. In other words, a body should be allowed to find its own natural balance as opposed to an imposed " balance " as suggested by a subjective diagnosis by an " outside healer " . I prefer to think of health practitioners as " facilitors " who are there to " free " the system from blockages. The body, I believe, is open (actually probaly switches open and close) and it fills itself with energy, and then disposes of " energy it cannot use " . In order for the body to fulfill its very basic function (i.e. " living " ) there must be sufficient energy around it (air, water, grain - condensed energy) and inside it (the dantien centers, the Extraordinary Channels, etc.) and the conduits between these sources and the " self-maintainer " must be open and free to communicate with each other. for the " self-maintaining system " . What is the " self-maintener " , that which diffenciates a human from an automobile - Consciousness? Regards, Rich I never see acupuncture as a temporary solution, but > I do feel that Medical Qigong enhances considerably the effectiveness of > acupuncture treatment. > > Does this all sound weird? > > Dermot > > > - > " Gary Bondurant, L.Ac. " <gheradus> > <Chinese Medicine > > Monday, September 13, 2004 9:09 PM > Re: " External Qigong " > > > > Hello Simon and all, > > > > I've found a few sources for qigong therapy outside of > > school. We learned basic qigong therapy in our classes > > at OCOM. I got a lot more out of " Chinese Medical > > Qigong Therapy " by Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson. It's > > 1100+ pp. of pure qigong fun! It includes history, > > theory, techniques and application for specific > > conditions. > > > > www.qigongmedicine.com > > > > In my practice I use qigong on about 90% of clients > > with their acupuncture. Occasionally I give a qigong > > only treatment. It's also nice to give qi to a > > formula or salve before giving to the client. I think > > it enhances all therapies > > > > Gary Bondurant > > > > --- wackname <wackname> wrote: > > > > > Hello again folks. > > > > > > I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so > > > far I haven't come across this topic. > > > > > > I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are > > > quite a few of these " healing touch " type practices > > > going around. the thing i don't like about them, or > > > rather the reason I study and practice Chinese > > > Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system > > > of medicine, whereas Reiki and such are useful but > > > simply not really satisfactory to me in terms of > > > their philosophical and theoretical foundations, and > > > > > > range of diagnostic methods and treatments. Ok I > > > haven't really stated exactly what I feel there, and > > > I > > > don't want to offend anyone (I've met a couple of > > > skilled Reiki practitioners and I think it's great > > > stuff), > > > so let me just get on to what I really want to know! > > > > > > I have read about Qigong treatment as part of > > > , I know there are Qigong research > > > centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone > > > here have any experience with practitioners of > > > Qigong healing in ? there is a book > > > called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > > > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking > > > at people and can " see " blockages in > > > meridians.... > > > > > > Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the > > > hands and find it quite likely that it can be > > > transferred without touch as well but are there > > > practitioners out there for whom it is more > > > effective to > > > use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or > > > physical manipulation? > > > > > > > > > Simon Thakur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Dermot, It's not weird. I share the same experience in using Qi Gong in acupuncture. I do take caution when facing someone with extremely negative Qi. (You will see what I mean when you encounter one, if you haven't already run into it.) Mike L. Dermot O'Connor <dermot wrote: Yes Gary, Dr Johnson is my teacher and the question of which therapy is better Medical Qigong (MQ) or acupuncture, really doesn't make sense to me, with my understanding of this branch of . If you are an acupuncturist, tuina practitioner or even a herbalist who practices Medical Qigong your will always use the techniques of MQ within these seperate modalities. Once you learn it you don't switch it off. In otherwords you will always needle, massage and even form prescriptions with Intention. I have to say defining all illnesses as manifestations of blockages seems just too loose for me. I never see acupuncture as a temporary solution, but I do feel that Medical Qigong enhances considerably the effectiveness of acupuncture treatment. Does this all sound weird? Dermot vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Thanks for the replies everyone. Ok I agree with whoever it was who said the medical qigong will be an integral part of any CM practice if the practitioner knows or has learned any qigong at all (I know there are some schools - like mine - where students are allowed to graduate without having clearly understood the use of intention in their tuina practice). I practice Xingyi, Yiquan standing meditation, and Daoist Qigong for martial arts and health (a set called TaiYiWuXingQuan) so I am developing this aspect of myself, BUT so far I am yet to encounter a school of (I guess as you say because all the schools are now TCM) that teaches methods of developing Qigong specifically for medical purposes (rather than just for one's own health). Are there any schools like this? Is it Rich who is studying under a tuina/qigong practitioner? where does he teach? are there more like him? tuina is my favourite modality at this stage (I have yet to learn acupuncture) and i think this is the direction I would like to go - although I will also definately study herbs and acupuncture i would prefer not to have to rely on anything but my own hands/mind/body.... So, does we have to learn these things for ourselves...or track down one of a few individuals and train under them...or are there schools which teach these methods and are they any good? Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Simon, There are a very small handful of schools that have integrated Medical Qigong into their curiculum. I am currently helping two collleges in Europe to set this up, but you are right generally you have to go to individual teachers. Kind regards Dermot - " wackname " <wackname <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:10 AM Re: " External Qigong " > Thanks for the replies everyone. > > Ok I agree with whoever it was who said the medical qigong will be an > integral part of any CM practice if the practitioner knows or has > learned any qigong at all (I know there are some schools - like mine - > where students are allowed to graduate without having clearly > understood the use of intention in their tuina practice). I practice > Xingyi, Yiquan standing meditation, and Daoist Qigong for martial > arts and health (a set called TaiYiWuXingQuan) so I am developing > this aspect of myself, BUT so far I am yet to encounter a school of > (I guess as you say because all the schools are now > TCM) that teaches methods of developing Qigong specifically for > medical purposes (rather than just for one's own health). Are there > any schools like this? > > Is it Rich who is studying under a tuina/qigong practitioner? where > does he teach? are there more like him? tuina is my favourite > modality at this stage (I have yet to learn acupuncture) and i think > this is the direction I would like to go - although I will also > definately study herbs and acupuncture i would prefer not to have to > rely on anything but my own hands/mind/body.... > > So, does we have to learn these things for ourselves...or track down > one of a few individuals and train under them...or are there schools > which teach these methods and are they any good? > > Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 In a message dated 9/14/04 10:36:44 AM, hyldemoer writes: << Jerry Alan Johnson's school out in Callifornia, Institute of Medical Qigong. <qigongmedicine.com> There is also a medical qigong school in the Chicago area that will be starting their first classes in Jan. 05 <qigongalliance.com> >> There is also a medical qi gong school in Austin, Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Hi friends, Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson , is now in Beijing, China with his 2 students. They work and study in our hospital for 5 days doing qigong clinical practice now. Regard. Guigen - Gary Bondurant, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:09 AM Re: " External Qigong " Hello Simon and all, I've found a few sources for qigong therapy outside of school. We learned basic qigong therapy in our classes at OCOM. I got a lot more out of " Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy " by Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson. It's 1100+ pp. of pure qigong fun! It includes history, theory, techniques and application for specific conditions. www.qigongmedicine.com In my practice I use qigong on about 90% of clients with their acupuncture. Occasionally I give a qigong only treatment. It's also nice to give qi to a formula or salve before giving to the client. I think it enhances all therapies Gary Bondurant --- wackname <wackname wrote: > Hello again folks. > > I haven't read through all the 9000 posts yet but so > far I haven't come across this topic. > > I assume everyone's heard of Reiki, and there are > quite a few of these " healing touch " type practices > going around. the thing i don't like about them, or > rather the reason I study and practice Chinese > Medicine is that I feel that it is a complete system > of medicine, whereas Reiki and such are useful but > simply not really satisfactory to me in terms of > their philosophical and theoretical foundations, and > > range of diagnostic methods and treatments. Ok I > haven't really stated exactly what I feel there, and > I > don't want to offend anyone (I've met a couple of > skilled Reiki practitioners and I think it's great > stuff), > so let me just get on to what I really want to know! > > I have read about Qigong treatment as part of > , I know there are Qigong research > centres in China and Taiwan these days. Does anyone > here have any experience with practitioners of > Qigong healing in ? there is a book > called " mastering miracles " about a guy who > lives somewhere in the US, diagnoses just by looking > at people and can " see " blockages in > meridians.... > > Now I accept that qi can be transferred through the > hands and find it quite likely that it can be > transferred without touch as well but are there > practitioners out there for whom it is more > effective to > use Qigong than it is to use herbs, acupuncture, or > physical manipulation? > > > Simon Thakur > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Hi Simon, > BUT so far I am yet to encounter a school of > (I guess as you say because all the schools are now > TCM) that teaches methods of developing Qigong specifically for > medical purposes (rather than just for one's own health). Are there > any schools like this? The schools that I know of primarily teach qigong as a self-practice and do not really draw the relationship to the practice of acupuncture or bodywork. > > Is it Rich who is studying under a tuina/qigong practitioner? where > does he teach? are there more like him? The tuina/gigong practitioner that I study from does not teach as a regular part of his practice. We just happen to be friends. I do know of some practitioners such as Tom Tam in the Boston area who seem to give public seminars, http://www.easternhealingcenter.com/tomtam/tom_tam%27s_seminars.htm but I believe the number of these type of teachers are few and far between. Even in China, the " official " policy is to keep the modalities seperate, so you would have to find someone who learned multiple modalities on their own. I am sure as demand increases, there will me more teachers teaching. Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming teaches Chinese Massage Therapy (tuina) and Medical Qigong, in the Boston area. I believe he has two weekend workshops coming up in Feb. of next year. http://www.ymaaschool.com/training/seminars/Boston/qigong/qigong1.php I have lots of respect for Dr. Yang's knowledge and it may be well worth looking into. I can also recommend Tom Tam's book " The Tom Tam Healing System " which provides a nice overview of the basic objectives of combining the modalities: http://www.easternhealingcenter.com/tomtam/tomtam_books.htm >tuina is my favourite > modality at this stage (I have yet to learn acupuncture) and i think > this is the direction I would like to go - although I will also > definately study herbs and acupuncture i would prefer not to have to > rely on anything but my own hands/mind/body.... Yes, I have found that tuina is the most effective with the greatest breath. The problem with this modality is the amount of time it takes to complete a full bodywork session with qigong. I know of some schools that teach bodywork in such a way that one treats only one aspect of the body in a given session. I feel that this approach is " incomplete " and could actually make things worse if the energy that is released is not fully directed out of the patient/client. But if you want to learn something that will be able to use wherever you go and even teach your clients/patients so that they can become self-maintaining, tuina (or any of the other asian bodywork methods) cannot be beat. > > So, does we have to learn these things for ourselves...or track down > one of a few individuals and train under them...or are there schools > which teach these methods and are they any good? I think it is hit-or-miss at this point. Maybe over time the TCM schools will provide better courses and resources. If you go over to the AOBTA site: http://aobta.org/ You will find a pretty good listing of Asian Bodyworkers, some of whom practice tuina. However, this list is incomplete. Some of the very highly trained Asian bodyworkers do not join any organization. I hope this helps. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 <snip> > BUT so far I am yet to encounter a school of > (I guess as you say because > all the schools are now TCM) that teaches > methods of developing Qigong specifically for > medical purposes (rather than just for one's > own health). Are there any schools like this? Jerry Alan Johnson's school out in Callifornia, Institute of Medical Qigong. <qigongmedicine.com> There is also a medical qigong school in the Chicago area that will be starting their first classes in Jan. 05 <qigongalliance.com> Medical qigong is a recognized modality with the AOBTA. Last Sept. Jerry made some very well received presentations at their national convention. (There are tape recordings of all the presenters from that convention. I'm still digesting Jeffrey Yuen's.) Jerry has been asked back for the AOBTA's next national convention which will be in Jan. 05 <http://aobta.org/national_convention.htm> Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hello, There is also a Medical Qi Healing School in Anchorage Alaska, The Oriental Healing Arts School. It has been in operation since 1998. One of our members is also on the board of the American Qigong Association, a fairly new organization. It's annual conference will be in Anchorage the summer 05' if anyone is interested in a great vacation, it is beautiful in Alaska in the summer. I am not an acupuncturist, but I am really enjoying the discussion here and picking up nuances of history and medicine. I also am continually curious about the differences in effects between acupuncture and Qigong, or Tuina or Medical Qi healing. It seems to me in my work so far is that people required unique interventions at different intensities, different speeds or qualities. For example, some people obviously need emergency treatment, and sometime surgery. That is something I cannot do. Some situations need more swift effective intervention that I think acupuncture with give them, though I wonder how long the interventions will last. My work is very fast for some kinds of problems, slower in others, but in all cases I do provide alot of human touch. That is a kind of medicine that is valuable. The kind of magic that needles provide are still in the body rhealm where the client will come away with more body awareness than they might going to most western doctors. There are still alot of questions though about the differences and I think that is OK, especially because people have different levels of need. Ultimately it will be the clients making these determinations and practioners allowing them to explore the range of modalities out there to find what works best for them. The other consideration is also the quality of the practitioner in regards to the effectiveness and good they will do. That is really hard to quantify in a discussion though. Thanks, Rozz ra6151 wrote: >In a message dated 9/14/04 10:36:44 AM, hyldemoer writes: > ><< Jerry Alan Johnson's school out in Callifornia, Institute of Medical > >Qigong. > ><qigongmedicine.com> > > >There is also a medical qigong school in the Chicago area that will > >be starting their first classes in Jan. 05 > ><qigongalliance.com> > > >> > >There is also a medical qi gong school in Austin, Texas. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Hi Rozz, > For example, some people obviously need emergency treatment, and > sometime surgery. That is something I cannot do. Yes, experience is a major factor during these kinds of situations. I cannot tell you how many people I know who were told that they " had no choice " other than surgery - by WM and acupuncturists - but the problem at the end was successful resolved by bodywork (anmo/tuina) and qigong. In some situations it was felt by the WM that too much physical structure was lost and the patient could never heal - but the WM were wrong. It seems to be a matter of knowledge and experience. I certainly cannot do things that a person with 30 years of experience can do because with 30 years of experience it is possible to learn how. But the principle is always the same - remove obstructions so that qi and blood can flow freely again. It is a matter of learning how to remove obstructions. I guess certain plumbers are just better than others because they have more experience. :-) Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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