English Language and Regulation

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

 

How exactly is it ironic? Because Chinese medicine was developed and

practiced in China? I can understand requiring a basic knowledge of the

Chinese language to practice it... but not requiring the language of the

country you intend to get licensed in and practice in? I commend the CA

board for stiffening the English language requirement for foreign language

students.

 

I go to a Korean acupuncture school where the Korean and Chinese students

outnumber the English students 6:1. I see how certain Korean and Chinese

students struggle in clinic because they have to interact with English

speaking patients and their English speaking peers (like me).. (and my

school is located in *koreatown*) The patients suffer for it.. greatly! And

the foreign language students suffer for it. And we as their peers suffer

for it by not being able to interact with fellow soon-to-be practitioners

with different experience and insight into the medicine. Many are very shy

in the English language and don't ask questions they would normally ask and

don't understand what the patient is describing as their complaints. I have

seen on more occasions than I'd like to count, foreign interns writing

completely wrong information on the intake form as a result of these

misunderstandings. Or they miss integral pieces of the presentation puzzle

because they can't follow what the patient is describing. I cringe everytime

it happens, both as a patient in the clinic and as a fellow intern observing

or helping in the intakes. All of these interns have the best intentions at

heart and are doing the best they can with the language barrier.

 

As a few people on this forum pointed out, communication is key to

interaction with patients, *especially* American patients who are desperate

for understanding after the treatment they receive with the allopathic

medical system. They are also sometimes somewhat confused by CTM and need

assurance and explanations of the logic behind the various " bizarre " things

we may suggest. It is short-sighted to think that even if you intend to

practice in an entirely Korean or Chinese part of town and cater

specifically to just Korean or Chinese speaking patients, knowledge of the

national language is trivial. This engenders segregation in the CTM

community.

 

It is all fine and good to point out that master practitioners can read a

pulse or look at a tongue and know everything they need to know to treat the

patient. Tell me one, even brilliant, student or new practitioner that has

this kind of skill... I'd like to think they develop it over they years of

asking patients and observing the matching of signs and symptoms.

 

By requiring the English language we are encouraging the possibility of

community amongst practitioners and broadening the horizons for practice in

this country for foreign language students. There is so very much that we

all can teach and share with one another and by coming to this country to

study you are implicitly accepting the fact that you are entering a new

community with English speaking peers. I don't see a downside to this

requirement in the long-run, although in the short-run it may be frustrating

for students struggling with English. That's why it's important to support

them by offering practical medical English language classes focused on

patient-practitioner interaction. We would be doing patients, peers,

practitioners and the community at large a disservice by not requiring this

during State-side education.

 

My two cents :>

Nadia

 

PS. I would encourage classes in medical Spanish as well for schools in

certain areas of the country.

 

>

>Message: 2

> Sun, 05 Sep 2004 14:36:55 -0000

> " Rich " <rfinkelstein

>Re: The English Language and Regulation

>

>I find it a bit ironic that we are requiring English to practice

>Chinese medicine?

>

>Regards,

>Rich

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Couldn't agree with you more Nadia, thanks for the informative post.

 

Attilio

 

 

East Dakota [eastdakota]

06 September 2004 21:00

Chinese Medicine

English Language and Regulation

 

 

 

Hi Rich,

 

How exactly is it ironic? Because Chinese medicine was developed and

practiced in China? I can understand requiring a basic knowledge of the

Chinese language to practice it... but not requiring the language of the

country you intend to get licensed in and practice in? I commend the CA

board for stiffening the English language requirement for foreign language

students.

 

I go to a Korean acupuncture school where the Korean and Chinese students

outnumber the English students 6:1. I see how certain Korean and Chinese

students struggle in clinic because they have to interact with English

speaking patients and their English speaking peers (like me).. (and my

school is located in *koreatown*) The patients suffer for it.. greatly! And

the foreign language students suffer for it. And we as their peers suffer

for it by not being able to interact with fellow soon-to-be practitioners

with different experience and insight into the medicine. Many are very shy

in the English language and don't ask questions they would normally ask and

don't understand what the patient is describing as their complaints. I have

seen on more occasions than I'd like to count, foreign interns writing

completely wrong information on the intake form as a result of these

misunderstandings. Or they miss integral pieces of the presentation puzzle

because they can't follow what the patient is describing. I cringe everytime

 

it happens, both as a patient in the clinic and as a fellow intern observing

 

or helping in the intakes. All of these interns have the best intentions at

heart and are doing the best they can with the language barrier.

 

As a few people on this forum pointed out, communication is key to

interaction with patients, *especially* American patients who are desperate

for understanding after the treatment they receive with the allopathic

medical system. They are also sometimes somewhat confused by CTM and need

assurance and explanations of the logic behind the various " bizarre " things

we may suggest. It is short-sighted to think that even if you intend to

practice in an entirely Korean or Chinese part of town and cater

specifically to just Korean or Chinese speaking patients, knowledge of the

national language is trivial. This engenders segregation in the CTM

community.

 

It is all fine and good to point out that master practitioners can read a

pulse or look at a tongue and know everything they need to know to treat the

 

patient. Tell me one, even brilliant, student or new practitioner that has

this kind of skill... I'd like to think they develop it over they years of

asking patients and observing the matching of signs and symptoms.

 

By requiring the English language we are encouraging the possibility of

community amongst practitioners and broadening the horizons for practice in

this country for foreign language students. There is so very much that we

all can teach and share with one another and by coming to this country to

study you are implicitly accepting the fact that you are entering a new

community with English speaking peers. I don't see a downside to this

requirement in the long-run, although in the short-run it may be frustrating

 

for students struggling with English. That's why it's important to support

them by offering practical medical English language classes focused on

patient-practitioner interaction. We would be doing patients, peers,

practitioners and the community at large a disservice by not requiring this

during State-side education.

 

My two cents :>

Nadia

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia,

 

Honestly, I have been to Chinese-only speaking practitioners who I far

prefer over well spoken English-language speaking practitioners. I

think is because the Chinese practitioners were far more skillful.

However, this is my preference and others may feel more comfortable

with English-language speaking practitioners who are not so skilled.

Personally, I would leave it up to the individual to decide. If the

patient is uncomfortable, then they are free to go elsewhere. I would

like to still have access to the highly skilled practitioners from

other countries.

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

 

Perhaps this is possible for qigong or energentic

therapies........however it is impossible for TCM. The ten rhythmic

questions are the basis of TCM, and must be communicated in a common

language in as clear and accurate way as possible.

 

Also, who says that the most skilled are those without English skills?

And wouldn't any practitioner benefit from increased ability to

communicate with their patients?

 

I am sorry to say, but none of this justifies the claim that expecting

TCM practitioners in the West to be able to speak Enligish is ironic.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Steve

 

On 07/09/2004, at 9:14 AM, Rich wrote:

 

> Hi Nadia,

>

> Honestly, I have been to Chinese-only speaking practitioners who I far

> prefer over well spoken English-language speaking practitioners. I

> think is because the Chinese practitioners were far more skillful.

> However, this is my preference and others may feel more comfortable

> with English-language speaking practitioners who are not so skilled.

> Personally, I would leave it up to the individual to decide. If the

> patient is uncomfortable, then they are free to go elsewhere. I would

> like to still have access to the highly skilled practitioners from

> other countries.

>

> Regards,

> Rich

>

Dr. Steven J Slater

Practitioner and Acupuncturist

Mobile: 0418 343 545

chinese_medicine

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

 

Chinese Medicine , Steve Slater

<dragonslive@h...> wrote:

> Hi Rich,

>

> Perhaps this is possible for qigong or energentic

> therapies........however it is impossible for TCM. The ten rhythmic

> questions are the basis of TCM, and must be communicated in a common

> language in as clear and accurate way as possible.

>

 

I am only suggesting that the client/patient be allowed to make the

final decision on whether " communication " is adequate. I know of many

practitioners who speak beautiful English and have no communication

skills at all. At least, that is what I have observed. I also know of

Chinese speaking practitioners who do a marvelous job of diagnosis (in

whatever approach they use) and are able to find effective ways of to

communicate with their patients and which the patients do not at all

find a problem.

 

Usually, I have found, patients are most concerned with getting well

and like to choose their practitioners that they feel most comfortable

with. Many times, they choose practitioners, who seem to be having

great success with friends and/or acquaintences and who happen to be

trained trained in China with many, many years of experiences in a

wide range of Chinese modalities. I think that if this practitioner is

achieving these successes then it should be up to the client/patient

to decide whether English is or isn't an impediment to their regaining

good health. For many people, the language aspect is no obstacle at

all - including myself. :-) I am most interested in ensuring that

client/patients have full access to the healthcare that is most

suitable for their situation.

 

Now, if someone can show me a well orchestrated study that clearly

shows that patients here in the U.S. are getting worse care from

non-English speaking practitioners, that would be a different story.

But suppose it shows the opposite? Should we demand that all

acupuncturists shall have graduated from non-English speaking schools?

It is possible you know.

 

Regards,

Rich