The English Language and Regulation

[Guest guest]

the NCCAOM exams can be taken in English, Chinese or Korean

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

I'm very concerned with Chinese medicine being practiced outside

China. As you all may know, the Chinese doctors especially those

practicing in the UK, don't speak good English. This greatly affects

the doctor-patient relationship as communication is the most

important aspect of this relationship and therefore treatment.

 

In the UK, Chinese doctors often use translators otherwise known as

doctor's assistants. When regulation comes into effect in a few

years in the UK, all foreign nationals will have to undertake an

English language exam. If you don't pass this exam then you can't

practice in the UK. This is afar as I'm aware of the regulation

anyway. If anyone knows different, please let me know.

 

My question is this. What is the state of regulation in particular

to Chinese nationals having to undertake English exams to practice

in the States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers?

 

Attilio

[Guest guest]

There is no English language requirement per se, but since the board exams

are in English and inter-country reciprocity is nonexistent, I guess you

could say that there is a de facto English language requirement.

 

For my money, I think if any language is made mandatory, it should be

Esperanto. But nobody has really been calling to ask my opinion.

 

Avery L. Jenkins, DC, DACBN, FIAMA

Chiropractic Physician

Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition

Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncture

Kent, CT

www.docaltmed.com

 

 

" There is no meaning in life except the meaning that man gives his life by

the unfolding of his powers. "

--Erich Fromm

-

" " <attiliodalberto

<Chinese Medicine >

Friday, September 03, 2004 8:14 AM

The English Language and Regulation

 

 

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm very concerned with Chinese medicine being practiced outside

> China. As you all may know, the Chinese doctors especially those

> practicing in the UK, don't speak good English. This greatly affects

> the doctor-patient relationship as communication is the most

> important aspect of this relationship and therefore treatment.

>

> In the UK, Chinese doctors often use translators otherwise known as

> doctor's assistants. When regulation comes into effect in a few

> years in the UK, all foreign nationals will have to undertake an

> English language exam. If you don't pass this exam then you can't

> practice in the UK. This is afar as I'm aware of the regulation

> anyway. If anyone knows different, please let me know.

>

> My question is this. What is the state of regulation in particular

> to Chinese nationals having to undertake English exams to practice

> in the States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers?

>

> Attilio

[Guest guest]

<attiliodalberto wrote:

My question is this. What is the state of regulation in particular

to Chinese nationals having to undertake English exams to practice

in the States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers?

 

 

In California, one can take the board exam in Chinese. [ Although at a

disadvantage

because the orignial is in English, which is then translated into Chinese,

making

it cryptic at times. ]

 

Some schools have a Chinese division which teaches the program completely in

Chinese. The English language requirement is very minimal.

 

Mike L.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Enter now.

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Attilio

> My question is this. What is the state of regulation in particular

> to Chinese nationals having to undertake English exams to practice

> in the States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers?

>

>

 

No restrictions at all other than the ones the need for doctor-patient

communication

places.

 

In the US it is difficult to create a law which will discriminate on basis

of language. Even if

one passes muster, the cheapest law suit will hold its application forever.

 

Overall it does seem unfair to belay a good healer from practicing for not

knowing

a language which can soon be mastered, and in the same breath allowing

others who may

not be so adept to practice without hinderence just because they know a

regional language.

 

In Northern India there is a traditional healer herbalist known as a Unani

Hakeem, Unani being

" hailing from Greece " and Hakeem being " doctor " . These practice what Galen

and others did,

with a mix from great Araby physicians such as Ibn Sina.

 

These hardly ask a question if they are so minded not to, and hold the pulse

and come to a

conclusion. This was handy when a veiled lady went ill and the Hakeem sat on

the one side of

a curtain made of sandalwood beads, and he on the other holding her ivory

wrist, and reading

the pulse, and having the devil of a time trying not to peek.

 

They would, and do to this day, come to crystal clear diagnosis and not one

word spoken.

 

Very many love stories have been strung into song and verse on the

hopelessly eternal love

of the low born but brilliant Hakim Healer, and the blue-blooded Princess,

whom he treats

for one illness and cures, but gives another called Love, for which, as

everybody knows,

there is no remedy.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio

 

> Hi all, What is the state of regulation in particular to Chinese

> nationals having to undertake English exams to practice in the

> States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers? Attilio

 

I do not know the actual Irish Law on this. However, IMO, it

SHOULD be a legal requirement that anyone who lives and

practises in a country should be able to communicate effectively in

the official language of that country.I would make a waiver for: (a) a

visiting specialist on a very short-term visit, and (b) for handicapped

practitioners. In those cases, I would allow for an interpreter, or

electronic aids, to facilitate error-free communication.

 

Attilio, your query raises another issue - that of drug labelling. It is

law in most EU States (and SHOULD BE LAW in ALL states) that

medicines and supplements be labelled in the language of the user-

country. Some Irish CHM practitioners have been prosecuted

already for having in their clinics herbs or formulas labelled only in

Chinese.

 

Drug/Supplement labelling, and/or accompanying data-sheets,

should state clearly ALL the details that the professional and user

needs to know: the ingredients, their amounts,how to prepare them

if preparation is needed, recommended dose, contraindications,

possible side effects and how to treat them, etc.

 

Unfortunately, many Chinese formulas are very badly labelled;

some state the ingredients, but not the amounts. Some give no

recommended dose rates. Some (such as the red pill in Yunnan

Baiyao) do not state the ingredients, etc, etc.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil,

 

I agree that labelling is an important issue. I'm aware that many pill

bottles are poorly labelled. Some are in Chinese as you say, others have

ingredients missing, or animal products included, which is against the law I

believe. Also, I understand that certain suppliers actually change the

packaging to disguise illegal ingredients before they are sent out to the

clinics. This kind of blatant disregard for law and ethics is totally not

acceptable.

 

Kind regards

 

Attilio

 

 

[]

03 September 2004 15:48

Chinese Medicine

Re: The English Language and Regulation

 

 

Hi Attilio

 

> Hi all, What is the state of regulation in particular to Chinese

> nationals having to undertake English exams to practice in the

> States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers? Attilio

 

I do not know the actual Irish Law on this. However, IMO, it

SHOULD be a legal requirement that anyone who lives and

practises in a country should be able to communicate effectively in

the official language of that country.I would make a waiver for: (a) a

visiting specialist on a very short-term visit, and (b) for handicapped

practitioners. In those cases, I would allow for an interpreter, or

electronic aids, to facilitate error-free communication.

 

Attilio, your query raises another issue - that of drug labelling. It is

law in most EU States (and SHOULD BE LAW in ALL states) that

medicines and supplements be labelled in the language of the user-

country. Some Irish CHM practitioners have been prosecuted

already for having in their clinics herbs or formulas labelled only in

Chinese.

 

Drug/Supplement labelling, and/or accompanying data-sheets,

should state clearly ALL the details that the professional and user

needs to know: the ingredients, their amounts,how to prepare them

if preparation is needed, recommended dose, contraindications,

possible side effects and how to treat them, etc.

 

Unfortunately, many Chinese formulas are very badly labelled;

some state the ingredients, but not the amounts. Some give no

recommended dose rates. Some (such as the red pill in Yunnan

Baiyao) do not state the ingredients, etc, etc.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

wrote:<snip>What is the state of regulation in particular

> to Chinese nationals having to undertake English exams to practice

> in the States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers?

>

 

Hi Attilio!

 

No English requirement in Florida (US) in fact, the test can be taken in

Chinese.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Attilio

I think you are being a little premature here unless you have the power to

foretell the future. It is by no means certain that regulation will mean

that foreign nationals will have to sit an exam although the British

Acupuncture Council would like that to be the case, the Chinese groups are

fighting this. The government hasn't published any final regulations and is

still in discussion with the various groups. Members of the BAcC should go

to their website and find out the latest information

http://www.acupuncture.org.uk/

I have noticed a huge increase in high street shops promoting TCM herbs and

acupuncture, often around areas such as weight loss and smoking cessation.

It is impossible for the public to know what if any qualifications these

practitioners have and none of them seem able to speak English. This type

of practice/mass marketing doesn't do the TCM profession any good at all.

Regards

Susie

 

Message: 1

Fri, 03 Sep 2004 12:14:22 -0000

" " <attiliodalberto

The English Language and Regulation

 

Hi all,

 

I'm very concerned with Chinese medicine being practiced outside

China. As you all may know, the Chinese doctors especially those

practicing in the UK, don't speak good English. This greatly affects

the doctor-patient relationship as communication is the most

important aspect of this relationship and therefore treatment.

 

In the UK, Chinese doctors often use translators otherwise known as

doctor's assistants. When regulation comes into effect in a few

years in the UK, all foreign nationals will have to undertake an

English language exam. If you don't pass this exam then you can't

practice in the UK. This is afar as I'm aware of the regulation

anyway. If anyone knows different, please let me know.

 

My question is this. What is the state of regulation in particular

to Chinese nationals having to undertake English exams to practice

in the States, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc. Any answers?

 

Attilio

[Guest guest]

Hi,

> >

> > For my money, I think if any language is made mandatory, it should be

> > Esperanto. But nobody has really been calling to ask my opinion.

>

 

I find it a bit ironic that we are requiring English to practice

Chinese medicine?

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

 

How is it ironic in a English speaking country? Here in Australia, many

of my teachers are excellent practitioners, but their results and are

less than they could/should be simply because of the language barrier.

 

I have seen patients who have been very unsatisfied with their

treatment due to not understanding anything the practitioner tells them

(which isn't enough for them anyway); and who know the doctor does not

really understand what they say. This destroys the doctor-patient

relationship and the patients confidence in the process.

 

Often, after a consultation with me (or a quick chat while the doctor

is busy) they are excited about the possibilities of TCM again as I can

explain concepts and reasons to them.

 

These are just the basic communication reasons.........and don't touch

upon the diagnostic problems or patient history issues. For example;

TCM practitioners in English speaking countries must know what a

patient would could distension or oppression or vexation

etc........sadly, most native Chinese speakers don't.

 

Just some thoughts,

 

Steve

 

On 06/09/2004, at 12:36 AM, Rich wrote:

 

> Hi,

> > >

> > > For my money, I think if any language is made mandatory, it

> should be

> > > Esperanto. But nobody has really been calling to ask my opinion.

> >

>

> I find it a bit ironic that we are requiring English to practice

> Chinese medicine?

>

> Regards,

> Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

 

Chinese Medicine , Steve Slater

<dragonslive@h...> wrote:

> Hi Rich,

>

> How is it ironic in a English speaking country? Here in Australia, many

> of my teachers are excellent practitioners, but their results and are

> less than they could/should be simply because of the language barrier.

 

I have dound this to be true and then a patient should switch

practitioners to one the patient is comfortable with. On the other

hand, I have found the reverse to be also true. That is, patients have

found the help and treatments that they needed from highly skilled and

experienced practitioners who do not speak English. Restricting access

to " health treatments " based upon the ability to speak a give language

could create an environment where patients have to go to China, or

Korea, or Japan, or India, etc., to find the treatments that they

need, but then we are creating a system where certain kinds of

treatments are only available to those people who can afford the time

and money to go overseas. This sounds a lot like the same environment

that the AMA was promoting in the U.S. for many years. I think I would

rather have the patient decide.

 

Personally, I would much rather have a doctor treating me who knows

how to make me healthy (maybe because that doctor has 30 years

experience with thousands of patients) as opposed to one who knows how

to speak English and has been practicing a short time and has very

little experience.

 

Regards,

Rich