Qigong Masters few and far between??

[Guest guest]

As surprised as many of you may be, these topic discussions have

taught me much. One topic I am spending time on is QiGong (external).

Today I had lunch with a real heavy hitter Chinese Doc from Cheng Du

that has been in the states for 13 years and graduated in '78. I

asked him what do you think of external qigong, how real is it. His

1st response was, " Very real, but the majority of practitioners are

quacks. " He went through some experiences he personally had and also

patients that he sent to various doctors (here is the states and in

China). Basically the conclusion out of the convo was that; it is

very real except very few can practice at the level to actually heal

organic diseases. For example, he said that the closest qigong

`Master' is probably 2 days drive in Austin, Tx. He mentioned there

are `masters' here in CO, but he wouldn't trust them to heal any real

diseases. Take it for what it is worth. But he did say that many of

the real masters can differential Dx, and treat meridians etc. But I

am sure that varies. How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these

qigong healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers, there

are many wanna beeees but the real thing is hard to find, but when you

do you are hooked up…

 

-

[Guest guest]

Yep Jason,

 

I'd go along with all of that.

 

Dermot

 

-

" " <

<Chinese Medicine >

Friday, August 06, 2004 2:22 AM

Qigong Masters few and far between??

 

 

As surprised as many of you may be, these topic discussions have

taught me much. One topic I am spending time on is QiGong (external).

Today I had lunch with a real heavy hitter Chinese Doc from Cheng Du

that has been in the states for 13 years and graduated in '78. I

asked him what do you think of external qigong, how real is it. His

1st response was, " Very real, but the majority of practitioners are

quacks. " He went through some experiences he personally had and also

patients that he sent to various doctors (here is the states and in

China). Basically the conclusion out of the convo was that; it is

very real except very few can practice at the level to actually heal

organic diseases. For example, he said that the closest qigong

`Master' is probably 2 days drive in Austin, Tx. He mentioned there

are `masters' here in CO, but he wouldn't trust them to heal any real

diseases. Take it for what it is worth. But he did say that many of

the real masters can differential Dx, and treat meridians etc. But I

am sure that varies. How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these

qigong healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers, there

are many wanna beeees but the real thing is hard to find, but when you

do you are hooked up.

 

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason,

 

> How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

> you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these

> qigong healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers, there

> are many wanna beeees but the real thing is hard to find, but when you

> do you are hooked up…

>

> -

 

I was wondering whether you believe that the same test should be

applied to all herbalists and acupuncturists including those who are

just out of school?

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason

 

This has been my experience as well. However, teaching/practicing

internal/self-external qigong is much easier to master and can be

quite effective--even for organic diseases. The problem being that

if one is too sick, they might not be able to muster enough internal

qi to do themselves much good. But this is not always the case and I

think that internal/self-external forms can accelerate greatly the

work we are doing with our other modalities and this is how I tend

to use it in my practice since I'm not confident about my mastery of

qi-emission. (actually, I'm pretty confident that I'm not that

effective!)

Hey, I studied in Austin. Would that master be Master Li Jun Feng?

An incredible teacher/master of internal and external forms indeed.

What a guy!! I only got to study briefly with him (he appeared after

my graduation and exodus) some Tai Ji but he affected my form more

in that brief study than all my other teachers combined in four

years. I would highly recommend him to anyone as a teacher and would

love at some point to experience his medical qi gong personally.

BTW, some interesting trivia about him--he was Jett Lee's teacher.

 

Regards, Shanna

 

Shanna

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

wrote:

> As surprised as many of you may be, these topic discussions have

> taught me much. One topic I am spending time on is QiGong

(external).

> Today I had lunch with a real heavy hitter Chinese Doc from Cheng

Du

> that has been in the states for 13 years and graduated in '78. I

> asked him what do you think of external qigong, how real is it.

His

> 1st response was, " Very real, but the majority of practitioners are

> quacks. " He went through some experiences he personally had and

also

> patients that he sent to various doctors (here is the states and in

> China). Basically the conclusion out of the convo was that; it is

> very real except very few can practice at the level to actually

heal

> organic diseases. For example, he said that the closest qigong

> `Master' is probably 2 days drive in Austin, Tx. He mentioned

there

> are `masters' here in CO, but he wouldn't trust them to heal any

real

> diseases. Take it for what it is worth. But he did say that many

of

> the real masters can differential Dx, and treat meridians etc.

But I

> am sure that varies. How does one know who is real, I asked. He

said

> you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these

> qigong healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers,

there

> are many wanna beeees but the real thing is hard to find, but when

you

> do you are hooked up…

>

> -

[Guest guest]

" How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these qigong

healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers, there are many wanna

beeees but the real thing is hard to find,.......... "

 

Jason,

 

The doctor is 100% correct: Send them a hard case and see. The hard part is

not in differentiating the quacks from the good. Rather, the hard part is

differentiating the good from the enlightened, and the enlightened ones are the

ones you want to to take lessons from. The first test is diagnosis. Fail that

and there is no point continuing. The good ones will give the patient a rather

accurate diagnosis. However, the enlightened ones will give the patient a

complete medical history from birth to present with 97%-100% accuracy, and they

tend to give out the complete answer before the patient even said a word. Both

the good and the enlightened will have very good mastery of tuina, acupuncture,

and/or herbal medicine, and they tend to use fewer needles than most. Although

both would have very good mastery of CM diagnosis, the enlightened one would

tend to use the hand's Lao Gong Point (P8) as the main tool of diagnosis.

 

The real difference will be in the qi emission, because it's the quality of the

doctor's qi that matters. Ask the patient to close his/her eyes when the qigong

master emits his/her qi and ask them to remember what he/she sees during the qi

emission process. It should be noted that the qi emitted should be warm and

comfortable, and the patient should have a sense of calm and comfort during and

after receiving the qi. If the patient only sees the darkness of the closed

eyes during the qi emission, then qigong master may be a good one. While he/she

has mastered his/her technique, he/she has not attained the energy reserve or

purity, or wisdom to do this full-time. However, if the patient sees bright

colors more beautiful than what he/she sees in a kaleidoscope dancing in his/her

mind during the qi emission, then we may have a winner.

 

Another clue is in the doctor's personality. While charlatans, the good and the

enlightened will all speak friendly with a big smile like he/she is warm and

caring, the enlightened qigong master speaks with substance in every word.

After you speak with one of the enlightened ones, you will come home knowing

that you have walked away with something valuable.

 

Like the good doctor said, these kinds of qigong masters are few and far

between. Finding them is much like finding a needle in a deep ocean, and sadly

this is no exaggeration.

 

Ming

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Rich "

<rfinkelstein@a...> wrote:

> Hi Jason,

>

> > How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

> > you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these

> > qigong healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers, there

> > are many wanna beeees but the real thing is hard to find, but when you

> > do you are hooked up…

> >

> > -

>

> I was wondering whether you believe that the same test should be

> applied to all herbalists and acupuncturists including those who are

> just out of school?

>

 

Sure... I find acupunture & herbs modality much more replicable and

consistent, And more effective at a lower level (but that is just me)

 

-

[Guest guest]

Ming makes several good points. When I met my qi-gong teacher, Master Ji, he had

an aura (qi) about him that I have never seen since. A good friend of mine had

meet him while visiting her parents in Shanghai when she saw him on a TV program

teaching qi-gong for the elderly. This was in the mid 1980's and he was the

first qi-gong teacher allowed by the government to teach on the airwaves as the

government was just starting to lift their restrictions against qi-gong

practice. He then came to the states and I had the chance to study with him for

2 years. As Ming stated, he used PC 8 the " Eye of the Palm " point, and his

diagnosis was remarkable. He once told a patient of mine suffering from some

confusing symptoms that she had had a small stroke. She told him that her

doctors had done CT scans checking for this and found nothing. He told her it

was a very small one and the scan just did not pick it up. A couple weeks later

they ran more scans and found the small stroke just where my teacher said it

would be.

 

More impressive to me than my teachers diagnostic ability however, was his

treatment technique. I saw him treat dozens of patients with completely

different techniques yet with such sure and deft ability I could not figure out

how he could have mastered so many different styles being only in his late

forties. Finally one day it hit me - he was not directing the treatment, he was

following a stream of qi that guided has hands with the greatest of ease. I

asked him (with my friend interpreting) if this was the case. He gave me a wry

smile and told me I had learned his secret. Over time, I learned to do a bit of

this myself. In addition to PC 8, the tip of the middle finger (PC9) is also

used to find qi blockages almost as a dousing rod would be used to find water.

In my own experience, the Pericardium points are important because they connect

with the shen energy via the Heart system. The YinTang (Third Eye) point and Bai

Hui (GV 20) can also become sensitive and help guide diagnosis and treatment.

When you follow a patient's qi, there is a groove or sweet-spot that you find

and try to stay within. It is almost like hitting a golf ball dead square - you

know when you drift out of the groove but you are not exactly sure how to get it

back. The great ones stay within that groove with greater regularity but even

the great ones can slip - Tiger Woods can hit some clunkers.

 

It is also true that there are some who practice slight-of-hand or other tricks

to fool people about their abilities. It seems you cannot stop rotten apples

from spoiling the barrel. My teacher was one who actually did this sort of thing

for real. When he was four, he was adopted by an elderly Shaolin Master who

taught him qi-gong until the Master was arrested for practicing Qi-gong when my

teachers was 11 years old. He then lived with a traveling band of healers who

roamed from village to village providing healing services. He told me traveling

healers such as this were very important in the stage before government health

care was available out in the rural villages - as important as the Barefoot

doctors.They would come into a village and gather a crowd by performing qi-gong

wonders. Once the crowd was formed, they would talk about health matters, set up

a clinic, and treat people. They would then leave one or two members to stay and

train some of the villagers for some weeks and then these teachers would

catch-up with the band in another village. He traveled this way until he was in

his early 20's when he went public and announced he was the heir to his teachers

tradition and became quite well known in China eventually landing on Shanghai

TV.

 

In case you are wondering - as far as I know he is now back in the mountains of

China, doing his self-cultivation. All of these events - his teachers arrest,

his working with the band of healers, his going public as the torch-bearer of

his tradition, his trip to the US and then his return to the mountains - had

been prophesized by his teacher when he was 9 or 10. If he should ever return to

teach - I will let you all know. - Matt Bauer

 

 

-

Ming H. Lee

Chinese Medicine

Friday, August 06, 2004 9:25 AM

Re: Qigong Masters few and far between??

 

 

" How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see these qigong

healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers, there are many wanna

beeees but the real thing is hard to find,.......... "

 

Jason,

 

The doctor is 100% correct: Send them a hard case and see. The hard part is

not in differentiating the quacks from the good. Rather, the hard part is

differentiating the good from the enlightened, and the enlightened ones are the

ones you want to to take lessons from. The first test is diagnosis. Fail that

and there is no point continuing. The good ones will give the patient a rather

accurate diagnosis. However, the enlightened ones will give the patient a

complete medical history from birth to present with 97%-100% accuracy, and they

tend to give out the complete answer before the patient even said a word. Both

the good and the enlightened will have very good mastery of tuina, acupuncture,

and/or herbal medicine, and they tend to use fewer needles than most. Although

both would have very good mastery of CM diagnosis, the enlightened one would

tend to use the hand's Lao Gong Point (P8) as the main tool of diagnosis.

 

The real difference will be in the qi emission, because it's the quality of

the doctor's qi that matters. Ask the patient to close his/her eyes when the

qigong master emits his/her qi and ask them to remember what he/she sees during

the qi emission process. It should be noted that the qi emitted should be warm

and comfortable, and the patient should have a sense of calm and comfort during

and after receiving the qi. If the patient only sees the darkness of the closed

eyes during the qi emission, then qigong master may be a good one. While he/she

has mastered his/her technique, he/she has not attained the energy reserve or

purity, or wisdom to do this full-time. However, if the patient sees bright

colors more beautiful than what he/she sees in a kaleidoscope dancing in his/her

mind during the qi emission, then we may have a winner.

 

Another clue is in the doctor's personality. While charlatans, the good and

the enlightened will all speak friendly with a big smile like he/she is warm and

caring, the enlightened qigong master speaks with substance in every word.

After you speak with one of the enlightened ones, you will come home knowing

that you have walked away with something valuable.

 

Like the good doctor said, these kinds of qigong masters are few and far

between. Finding them is much like finding a needle in a deep ocean, and sadly

this is no exaggeration.

 

Ming

 

 

 

 

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

[Guest guest]

Matt,

 

Thanx for the story and info... It is insipiring...

 

-

 

Chinese Medicine , " Matt Bauer "

<acu.guy@g...> wrote:

> Ming makes several good points. When I met my qi-gong teacher,

Master Ji, he had an aura (qi) about him that I have never seen since.

A good friend of mine had meet him while visiting her parents in

Shanghai when she saw him on a TV program teaching qi-gong for the

elderly. This was in the mid 1980's and he was the first qi-gong

teacher allowed by the government to teach on the airwaves as the

government was just starting to lift their restrictions against

qi-gong practice. He then came to the states and I had the chance to

study with him for 2 years. As Ming stated, he used PC 8 the " Eye of

the Palm " point, and his diagnosis was remarkable. He once told a

patient of mine suffering from some confusing symptoms that she had

had a small stroke. She told him that her doctors had done CT scans

checking for this and found nothing. He told her it was a very small

one and the scan just did not pick it up. A couple weeks later they

ran more scans and found the small stroke just where my teacher said

it would be.

>

> More impressive to me than my teachers diagnostic ability however,

was his treatment technique. I saw him treat dozens of patients with

completely different techniques yet with such sure and deft ability I

could not figure out how he could have mastered so many different

styles being only in his late forties. Finally one day it hit me - he

was not directing the treatment, he was following a stream of qi that

guided has hands with the greatest of ease. I asked him (with my

friend interpreting) if this was the case. He gave me a wry smile and

told me I had learned his secret. Over time, I learned to do a bit of

this myself. In addition to PC 8, the tip of the middle finger (PC9)

is also used to find qi blockages almost as a dousing rod would be

used to find water. In my own experience, the Pericardium points are

important because they connect with the shen energy via the Heart

system. The YinTang (Third Eye) point and Bai Hui (GV 20) can also

become sensitive and help guide diagnosis and treatment. When you

follow a patient's qi, there is a groove or sweet-spot that you find

and try to stay within. It is almost like hitting a golf ball dead

square - you know when you drift out of the groove but you are not

exactly sure how to get it back. The great ones stay within that

groove with greater regularity but even the great ones can slip -

Tiger Woods can hit some clunkers.

>

> It is also true that there are some who practice slight-of-hand or

other tricks to fool people about their abilities. It seems you cannot

stop rotten apples from spoiling the barrel. My teacher was one who

actually did this sort of thing for real. When he was four, he was

adopted by an elderly Shaolin Master who taught him qi-gong until the

Master was arrested for practicing Qi-gong when my teachers was 11

years old. He then lived with a traveling band of healers who roamed

from village to village providing healing services. He told me

traveling healers such as this were very important in the stage before

government health care was available out in the rural villages - as

important as the Barefoot doctors.They would come into a village and

gather a crowd by performing qi-gong wonders. Once the crowd was

formed, they would talk about health matters, set up a clinic, and

treat people. They would then leave one or two members to stay and

train some of the villagers for some weeks and then these teachers

would catch-up with the band in another village. He traveled this way

until he was in his early 20's when he went public and announced he

was the heir to his teachers tradition and became quite well known in

China eventually landing on Shanghai TV.

>

> In case you are wondering - as far as I know he is now back in the

mountains of China, doing his self-cultivation. All of these events -

his teachers arrest, his working with the band of healers, his going

public as the torch-bearer of his tradition, his trip to the US and

then his return to the mountains - had been prophesized by his teacher

when he was 9 or 10. If he should ever return to teach - I will let

you all know. - Matt Bauer

>

>

> -

> Ming H. Lee

> Chinese Medicine

> Friday, August 06, 2004 9:25 AM

> Re: Qigong Masters few and far between??

>

>

> " How does one know who is real, I asked. He said

> you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. I see

these qigong healers (at this high level) like enlightened teachers,

there are many wanna beeees but the real thing is hard to find,.......... "

>

> Jason,

>

> The doctor is 100% correct: Send them a hard case and see. The

hard part is not in differentiating the quacks from the good. Rather,

the hard part is differentiating the good from the enlightened, and

the enlightened ones are the ones you want to to take lessons from.

The first test is diagnosis. Fail that and there is no point

continuing. The good ones will give the patient a rather accurate

diagnosis. However, the enlightened ones will give the patient a

complete medical history from birth to present with 97%-100% accuracy,

and they tend to give out the complete answer before the patient even

said a word. Both the good and the enlightened will have very good

mastery of tuina, acupuncture, and/or herbal medicine, and they tend

to use fewer needles than most. Although both would have very good

mastery of CM diagnosis, the enlightened one would tend to use the

hand's Lao Gong Point (P8) as the main tool of diagnosis.

>

> The real difference will be in the qi emission, because it's the

quality of the doctor's qi that matters. Ask the patient to close

his/her eyes when the qigong master emits his/her qi and ask them to

remember what he/she sees during the qi emission process. It should

be noted that the qi emitted should be warm and comfortable, and the

patient should have a sense of calm and comfort during and after

receiving the qi. If the patient only sees the darkness of the closed

eyes during the qi emission, then qigong master may be a good one.

While he/she has mastered his/her technique, he/she has not attained

the energy reserve or purity, or wisdom to do this full-time.

However, if the patient sees bright colors more beautiful than what

he/she sees in a kaleidoscope dancing in his/her mind during the qi

emission, then we may have a winner.

>

> Another clue is in the doctor's personality. While charlatans,

the good and the enlightened will all speak friendly with a big smile

like he/she is warm and caring, the enlightened qigong master speaks

with substance in every word. After you speak with one of the

enlightened ones, you will come home knowing that you have walked away

with something valuable.

>

> Like the good doctor said, these kinds of qigong masters are few

and far between. Finding them is much like finding a needle in a deep

ocean, and sadly this is no exaggeration.

>

> Ming

>

> New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason,

 

> > I was wondering whether you believe that the same test should be

> > applied to all herbalists and acupuncturists including those who are

> > just out of school?

 

> Sure... I find acupunture & herbs modality much more replicable and

> consistent, And more effective at a lower level (but that is just me)

>

-

 

Sorry, I didn't make my answer clear. I wasn't asking whether you

believed acupunture an herbs were more replicable. I was asking

whether you believe that acupuncturists' and herbalists' ability

should be " tested " with a hard case, as opposed to a written

examination, in order to determine whether they are any good? If so,

what do you consider a hard case? Infertility, ovarian cysts, high

blood pressure?

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Rich "

<rfinkelstein@a...> wrote:

> Hi Jason,

>

> > > I was wondering whether you believe that the same test should be

> > > applied to all herbalists and acupuncturists including those who are

> > > just out of school?

>

> > Sure... I find acupunture & herbs modality much more replicable and

> > consistent, And more effective at a lower level (but that is just me)

> >

> -

>

> Sorry, I didn't make my answer clear. I wasn't asking whether you

> believed acupunture an herbs were more replicable. I was asking

> whether you believe that acupuncturists' and herbalists' ability

> should be " tested " with a hard case, as opposed to a written

> examination, in order to determine whether they are any good?

 

For licensing? I don't think so… TO see is someone is good, send them

a hard case, yes that sounds reasonable to me.

 

If so,

> what do you consider a hard case? Infertility, ovarian cysts, high

> blood pressure?

 

Those are IMO usually fairly easy ones... What is a hard case? IT is

usually dependent on the person's presentation not the disease, but

there are hard conditions generally speaking, such as tinnitus or

cancers. But each modality treats different diseases / conditions

better or worse than others. I.e. Something like vision learning

related ADD is probably much better treated with something like

cranial-sacral, not acupuncture.

 

-

[Guest guest]

Dear TCM group,

 

I am copying this post from another medical group with the permission of the

sender. If anyone has any suggestions they would be much appreciated. I will

post relevant responses to the message owner. A couple of questions from me:

Is castration for prostate cancer a frequent treatment in China? For how

long has the practice been going on ? [in the west it was " discovered " in

the early 1940's]. My response to the patient queries are below the main

text. Many thanks for your input. Sammy.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Dear Doctors,

 

I am writing this for my dearest father who lives in China. He was diagnosed

almost six years ago with metastasis PC. For the first four years after his

initial treatment (orchiectomy) he was feeling great but things started to

get worse since last year. Currently he has mets to his urethral tract,

penis and several bone sites. The doctors he has are not very helpful. We

regret not being knowledgeable in the past but we think actions need to be

taken immediately now. Being his only daughter and so far away from him I am

deeply saddened and feeling helpless. I hope you could provide us some

guidance in controlling of his disease progression even at this late stage.

 

Current age-73

09/15/98- DX at age of 68 through biopsy, bPSA 35, bone scan-5 hot

spots, DX-D2

09/22/98 Orchiectomy, TURP to relieve urinating difficulty

ERBT to prostate bed from 10/98 to 02/99

Flutamine for about a month but stopped because of liver

toxicity

04/99-PSA-1.2 (Lab A)

09/99-PSA 0.7

7/00-PSA 0.8

07/01-PSA 0.015 (Lab B)

07/02-PSA 0.14

07/03-PSA 1.4

10/03-PSA 2.6- difficult to urinate

12/03-PSA 5.4

DX-scar tissues built up in urethral tract (major mistake!)

TX-E-beam remove the scar (we think it is a major mistake) but did biopsy on

the tissues, GS (5+4)

01/07/04-Starting Casodex 50mg/day

02/-PSA 2.41

03/-PSA 2.18

04/-PSA 2.50

05/-PSA 2.80-minor pains in the hip

06/-PSA 3.08

06/14/04 urethral tract ultrasound found spread to urethral tract and penis.

Unable to urinate

06/22/04 Tx-urinal diversion

07/24/04-PSA 4.12, AKP 131

Stopped Casodex, Start Proscar and Mobic (Celebrex is not available in

China)

08/03/04-MRI Pelvic confirmed PC spread to seminal vessel and urethral

tract.

08/04/04-BS (ECT), 7 hot spots in bones

Overall health is good besides borderline diabetes.

 

Questions:

 

1. Is he hormone-refractory?

2. In Dr. Myers' paper on PCRInsights Vol 5. No 2 " Androgen

Resistance Part I " he commented that the T level on the prostate issue is

only reduced to 75% for surgical castration patient. Does that mean that

Lupron does a better job than surgical castration? Is there any benefit to

use Lupron in surgical castration patients?

3. What should we do next? Some doctors suggest use SR89 but we

are worried that it is not going to control the progression.

4. Should we try second -line hormone therapies? We thought

about HDK but are worried about the side effect especially the liver

toxicity.

5. Should we consider chemo at this point? Which protocol is

the best and has the minimal side effect? My father is worried about taking

Eymct because he read a book that says that the disease progresses much

faster once you stop taking it. Most of the doctors in China do not believe

in Chemo for treating PC patients. They said that Chemo is not effective.

6. Are there any other things we should do?

 

Your help will be appreciated very much.

 

Yingqiu

-a heart aching daughter

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Greetings Yxxx,

 

Sorry to learn of your father's difficulties.

 

I hope the P2P doctors reply with advice on testosterone supplementation /

replacement, as this is a valid option for your father at this time.

 

Although I am not medically trained I take a great interest in this illness.

You can see my web page at: www.prostateman.org. Yxxx, I should be very

grateful if you would allow me to copy your post to the P2P to another

medical group. I will ensure the personal details are made anonymous and if

I get any relevant replies, I will pass them to you.

 

Sincerely,

 

GA " Sammy " Bates

BA., BSc., MSc., PGCE.

 

PS. Here is my 'lay' response to your questions.

 

> 1. Is he hormone-refractory?

 

I believe so. A rising PSA over several months indicates this.

 

> 2. In Dr. Myers' paper on PCRInsights Vol 5. No 2 " Androgen

> Resistance Part I " he commented that the T level on the prostate issue is

> only reduced to 75% for surgical castration patient. Does that mean that

> Lupron does a better job than surgical castration? Is there any benefit to

> use Lupron in surgical castration patients?

 

As your father has been castrated it is a moot point surely? Academically

speaking Lupron+Casodex may do a better job for a time, BUT HRPC emerges

eventually, regardless of the type of castration - chemical or physical.

Hence HRPC is the issue to address.

 

> 3. What should we do next? Some doctors suggest use SR89 but we

> are worried that it is not going to control the progression.

 

Typically Sr89 will control bone metastases for a few months. Overall the

treatment may weaken your father because the radiation affects the blood.

What is his overall health like?

 

> 4. Should we try second -line hormone therapies? We thought

> about HDK but are worried about the side effect especially the liver

> toxicity.

 

This is a possibility. Strum will mention details if he replies. In the UK

(from where I write) there is NOT a lot of enthusiasm for HDK for prostate

cancer, thus relatively little is know of the 'ins and outs'.

 

> 5. Should we consider chemo at this point? Which protocol is

> the best and has the minimal side effect? My father is worried about

taking > Eymct because he read a book that says that the disease progresses

much

> faster once you stop taking it. Most of the doctors in China do not

believe > in Chemo for treating PC patients. They said that Chemo is not

effective.

 

There is a chemo protocol using platinum with minimum side effects. A member

of another group (in the UK) will be reporting back eventually. You may like

to join that group and ask further questions about it. Subscribe by sending

an email to ProstateCancerSupport-

 

> 6. Are there any other things we should do?

 

I believe testosterone is a valid option as mentioned. You could also

consider asking your father to take a supplement called coriolus versicolor

(CV) in the west and known as yun zhi in pinyin (cloud mushroom). Start at

1-2 gm per day and build up to 5 gm x3 per day over a few weeks. This

supplement has been shown to improve well-being for patients undergoing

radiotherapy or chemotherapy, improving stamina and immune function.

http://www.mycologyresearch.com/ (I have no financial interest)

 

Sammy.

[Guest guest]

>

> For licensing? I don't think so… TO see is someone is good, send them

> a hard case, yes that sounds reasonable to me.

>

> If so,

> > what do you consider a hard case? Infertility, ovarian cysts, high

> > blood pressure?

>

> Those are IMO usually fairly easy ones... What is a hard case? IT is

> usually dependent on the person's presentation not the disease, but

> there are hard conditions generally speaking, such as tinnitus or

> cancers.

 

So if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that a

reasonable test of a good herbalist or acupuncturist, is whether they

can cure tinnitus or cancer - for example? Do you believe that this

the test should be applied to all doctors including Western doctors?

Are you able to pass this standard?

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Rich "

<rfinkelstein@a...> wrote:

>

> >

> > For licensing? I don't think so… TO see is someone is good, send them

> > a hard case, yes that sounds reasonable to me.

> >

> > If so,

> > > what do you consider a hard case? Infertility, ovarian cysts, high

> > > blood pressure?

> >

> > Those are IMO usually fairly easy ones... What is a hard case? IT is

> > usually dependent on the person's presentation not the disease, but

> > there are hard conditions generally speaking, such as tinnitus or

> > cancers.

>

> So if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that a

> reasonable test of a good herbalist or acupuncturist, is whether they

> can cure tinnitus or cancer - for example? Do you believe that this

> the test should be applied to all doctors including Western doctors?

> Are you able to pass this standard?

 

No that is not what I am saying...

 

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason,

 

> No that is not what I am saying...

>

> -

 

Sorry, let me review from your previous posts concerning how to test

for a good qigong dcotor - a Master in your way of speaking:

 

1) " He said you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. "

 

2) " What is a hard case? IT is usually dependent on the person's

presentation not the disease, but there are hard conditions generally

speaking, such as tinnitus or cancers. "

 

I am asking you whether herbalists, acupuncturists, western trained

M.D.s, including yourself should be tested in the same way?

 

Regards,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Rich "

<rfinkelstein@a...> wrote:

> Hi Jason,

>

> > No that is not what I am saying...

> >

> > -

>

> Sorry, let me review from your previous posts concerning how to test

> for a good qigong dcotor - a Master in your way of speaking:

>

> 1) " He said you have to test them. Send them a hard case and see. "

 

First of all if you notice I did not say anything. It was HE!! I

just was passing on what a well respected TCM doctor said. Do not put

words in my mouth.

 

>

> 2) " What is a hard case? IT is usually dependent on the person's

> presentation not the disease, but there are hard conditions generally

> speaking, such as tinnitus or cancers. "

 

Yes I think that a hard case (or a few) is a good way to test anyone's

skill level. But please re-read what I think is a hard case! " What

is a hard case? IT is usually dependent on the person's presentation

not the disease "

 

So, we have to pick cases that are appropriate for the modality or the

practitioner's specialty or interest. Therefore, if acupuncture is

not supposed to treat Cancer and the practitioner doesn't even treat

Cancers, then it is not a fair test. If a QiGong master says that he

can bust up tumors and cure cancer, then let us see it. That is a fair

test. Tinnitus is not a good pick for CM because it doesn't have a

good track record, of course if there is someone that is treating such

cases (i.e. Cancer or tinnitus) then there is a good bet that he knows

something. To sum up, Send someone a hard case (not disease) that the

practitioner says he treats. Practitioners that commonly do well with

difficult cases are IMO better practitioners. Make sense?

 

>

> I am asking you whether herbalists, acupuncturists, western trained

> M.D.s, including yourself should be tested in the same way?

 

YES see above.

 

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason,

 

> To sum up, Send someone a hard case (not disease) that the

> practitioner says he treats. Practitioners that commonly do well with

> difficult cases are IMO better practitioners. Make sense?

 

I definitely think that someone should give it a try and see how it

goes. I have had dozens of friends and acquaintences, with a wide

range of acute and chronic problems, try out tuina/qigong with very

good results compared to their experiences with other modalities. For

them, it was a good choice. For others, maybe another modality will

work better. The biggest problem is finding someone since there is

really no good resource directing people to doctors practicing these

modalities at this time.

 

Regards,

Rich