Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Hi all, I suspect that many practitioners on this forum have not studied qigong and may find the subject of qi emission sounding rather foreign and exotic. It is actually quite simple and straightforward and I would like to briefly describe how I feel when I use qigong. It feels exactly the same whether I do it myself or with someone else - with some minor exceptions that I will explain. Given that this is a TCM group, most forum members understand and accept the concept of " wei qi " . That is, the qi that extends beyond our physical body. This qi, which is nothing more than an extension of our jingluo qi (it is all the same, just fulfilling different purposes), " breathes " in and out along with our breath and our mind intention. One aspect of qigong training is to nurture this process. Another is to learn how to store qi in our extraordinary vessels so that we can call upon this reservoir of qi when we need it. I view one of the roles of qi is to act as the " oil " of the body. It keeps the body clean and running smoothly so that the body can nourish and if necessary repair itself - also by utilizing qi. What transforms qi into these many uses? - Individual consciousness or Shen. Shen lives in the 5 viscera. A person will become ill because of obstructions that may be present at the energetic or physical layer. The physical layer is nothing more than condensed qi. Because the physical layer is " condensed " , it is easier to remove obstructions at this layer using " condensed qi " . Hence, the reason for using physical tuina manipulation along with other techniques such as cupping and gua sha. For the same reason, it is easier to eliminate obstructions at the energetic layer using qigong. In other words - " likes move likes " . For certain purposes, I will move qi " out of the body " using intent in order to eliminate energetic obstructions - i.e. cold qi. I simply use intent and motion of the extended qi of my body (similar to moving qigong or standing taiji) to move " evil " or " cold " (stagnant) qi out of the body of the person. It feels like a cool breeze. I can then reverse the process and assist the qi to begin moving again by either touching the person with warm qi (I will rub my hands to bring the qi to the surface) or by using intent to " breath " the qi out of my body and warm the receiving body. This is just a few inches at most. When I touch the person, I will normally feel a very slight " buzzing " feeling (like electricity) or I may feel a deep breathing of the body. It may feel like a little flow pulse. It is different for each person. Interestingly, once the qi is flowing again, the receiving person will automatically shut down the reception of qi from me and start going on their own. So I am like a battery jump start in the process. The ability to help someone using this method largely depends upon how well modulated is the givers Mind. There should be awareness of the breath and a certain calmness. Otherwise the qi energy cannot be harmonized between the giver and the receiver. Developing this well-modulated awareness is a key aspect of qigong training. Just like any other modality, qigong is not for everyone. I suspect that many of the other modalities in TCM were developed by ancient doctors who preferred one approach over another because it suited them best. But for those who are inclined toward this approach, it is very worthwhile studying since it not only benefits patients but also greatly benefits oneself. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Hello My name is Kevin Dockery. I am the Director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Human Knowledge (www.fahk.org). I was invited to join this community in order to be able to help when I can and serve when it is right for me to do so. This is my first response since becoming a member. Rich, I tend to go into things with eyes wide open not wide shut. Your opening indicates that you have some preconcieved notion regarding this group knowledge of chi emission and to that matter the depth of the knowledge contained by many of the practitioners within this group. Though many members may be students, there are, I have noticed, many I will refer to as adepts of Chi Kung. Included in this is the moderator. I found your post to be fool hearty. A mistake often made by novices in the play of chi. I say this not in opposition of you. I say this in hopes that you can look within yourself and see that this is not the proper approach to chi kung. Allow me to explain in depth. Your explanation of chi emission is indicative of a person who has read a book on chi kung and taught himself. You state that chi is the oil of the body and that it is guided by Shen which you define as consciousness. (Shen according to the classics is refered to as spirit something quite apart from consciousness; for consciousness is a state of the spirit not what the spirit is. Yes, chi is lead by Yi (mind). However, chi nourish the mind and elevates it, thereby unfolding the consciousness; making higher congnitve functions available to us. By so doing, what is given to us is a very different understanding then you have of chi. Chi because of its functions as a consciousness unfolding tool gets to be far more than oil (energy). It becomes the sin qua non of phenomenon. Chi is the stream in which life (Shen) floats upon. When a master speaks of the development of chi, she or he speaks of the union of all things. Not the development of some form of energy localized in the body, though this is what seems to be. The meridians, 8 psychic vessels and three dantiens that reside in the body are nothing more than murky reflections of their true counter parts. In the last few sentences I wrote, the true secret to chi emission was given. Attempt to gleem it. It has been written that a journey of a thousand miles may begin with a single step. But people need to stop and give thought to rather or not that first step is in the right direction. It is easy to begin on a journey to the East. But if your first step is Westward you will haft to circle the world rightly before you ever get there. Who was it that said a straight line is the shortest path? Something to give thought to before you continue to speak on those subjects you know very little of while your claim to them is more intuitive knowledge then knowledge gleemed from both that of intuition and direct experience. As far as the technique you have given, it is garbage. Just like the rest of the stuff brought to the west with the new age craze. Everyone thinks they know how to emit energy. What you are doing is the lowest level of chi emission. If it effects or triggers a change in anyone, I will consider the report as being made by someone who was given a placebo. True Chi work is direct, deliberate and taken with full knowledge. Did you even know the the way in which you even transmit chi is different for every human being. No two people are the same, yet still those who know very little of chi kung attempt to create a one technique fits all method. Chi application is organic in nature because at its very essence the purpose of chi kung is to bring life herself into the direct control of the Yi of the weilder. I think I said enough to say everything yet say nothing to those that do not need to hear what I have said. Kevin Dockery, Director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Human Knowledge www.fahk.org I suspect that many practitioners on this forum have not studied qigong and may find the subject of qi emission sounding rather foreign and exotic. It is actually quite simple and straightforward and I would like to briefly describe how I feel when I use qigong. It feels exactly the same whether I do it myself or with someone else - with some minor exceptions that I will explain. Given that this is a TCM group, most forum members understand and accept the concept of " wei qi " . That is, the qi that extends beyond our physical body. This qi, which is nothing more than an extension of our jingluo qi (it is all the same, just fulfilling different purposes), " breathes " in and out along with our breath and our mind intention. One aspect of qigong training is to nurture this process. Another is to learn how to store qi in our extraordinary vessels so that we can call upon this reservoir of qi when we need it. I view one of the roles of qi is to act as the " oil " of the body. It keeps the body clean and running smoothly so that the body can nourish and if necessary repair itself - also by utilizing qi. What transforms qi into these many uses? - Individual consciousness or Shen. Shen lives in the 5 viscera. A person will become ill because of obstructions that may be present at the energetic or physical layer. The physical layer is nothing more than condensed qi. Because the physical layer is " condensed " , it is easier to remove obstructions at this layer using " condensed qi " . Hence, the reason for using physical tuina manipulation along with other techniques such as cupping and gua sha. For the same reason, it is easier to eliminate obstructions at the energetic layer using qigong. In other words - " likes move likes " . For certain purposes, I will move qi " out of the body " using intent in order to eliminate energetic obstructions - i.e. cold qi. I simply use intent and motion of the extended qi of my body (similar to moving qigong or standing taiji) to move " evil " or " cold " (stagnant) qi out of the body of the person. It feels like a cool breeze. I can then reverse the process and assist the qi to begin moving again by either touching the person with warm qi (I will rub my hands to bring the qi to the surface) or by using intent to " breath " the qi out of my body and warm the receiving body. This is just a few inches at most. When I touch the person, I will normally feel a very slight " buzzing " feeling (like electricity) or I may feel a deep breathing of the body. It may feel like a little flow pulse. It is different for each person. Interestingly, once the qi is flowing again, the receiving person will automatically shut down the reception of qi from me and start going on their own. So I am like a battery jump start in the process. The ability to help someone using this method largely depends upon how well modulated is the givers Mind. There should be awareness of the breath and a certain calmness. Otherwise the qi energy cannot be harmonized between the giver and the receiver. Developing this well-modulated awareness is a key aspect of qigong training. Just like any other modality, qigong is not for everyone. I suspect that many of the other modalities in TCM were developed by ancient doctors who preferred one approach over another because it suited them best. But for those who are inclined toward this approach, it is very worthwhile studying since it not only benefits patients but also greatly benefits oneself. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 In a message dated 8/6/04 5:20:17 AM, kevindockery writes: << My name is Kevin Dockery. I am the Director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Human Knowledge (www.fahk.org). >> Kevin, It is of interest to hear several people speak on the subject of qi transmission; in that regard I appreciate hearing from you. However, I think it would be better just to speak your own thoughts, and not try to diminish or disqualify what Rich has said. Actually, the way you go after him makes me tend to trust what you say to a lesser degree. One thing I have seen over and over in my own experience is that the real masters (in any field) do not attack other people, but instead meet everyone with great generosity. [the true secret to chi emission was given. Attempt to gleem it. ......knowledge gleemed......] I think the word you are looking for here is 'glean'. -----roseanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Hey Kevin, I think you are being a bit harsh on Rich there. I agree with you that Qi Emission is not to be learned from a book or an e-mail description. Rich's explanation may have been incorrect in parts, but his intentions seemed good. The reality is that most people on this forum will not have had much exposure to Medical Qigong and many will have a preconceived belief that it is hocus pocus. Anything that encourages them to take a closer look is a good thing. I think this is what Rich was hoping to achieve. Kind regards Dermot - " Kevin Dockery " <kevindockery <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:30 PM Re: Qi Emission > Hello > My name is Kevin Dockery. I am the Director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Human Knowledge (www.fahk.org). I was invited to join this community in order to be able to help when I can and serve when it is right for me to do so. This is my first response since becoming a member. Rich, I tend to go into things with eyes wide open not wide shut. Your opening indicates that you have some preconcieved notion regarding this group knowledge of chi emission and to that matter the depth of the knowledge contained by many of the practitioners within this group. Though many members may be students, there are, I have noticed, many I will refer to as adepts of Chi Kung. Included in this is the moderator. I found your post to be fool hearty. A mistake often made by novices in the play of chi. I say this not in opposition of you. I say this in hopes that you can look within yourself and see that this is not the proper approach to chi kung. Allow me to explain in depth. > > Your explanation of chi emission is indicative of a person who has read a book on chi kung and taught himself. You state that chi is the oil of the body and that it is guided by Shen which you define as consciousness. (Shen according to the classics is refered to as spirit something quite apart from consciousness; for consciousness is a state of the spirit not what the spirit is. Yes, chi is lead by Yi (mind). However, chi nourish the mind and elevates it, thereby unfolding the consciousness; making higher congnitve functions available to us. By so doing, what is given to us is a very different understanding then you have of chi. Chi because of its functions as a consciousness unfolding tool gets to be far more than oil (energy). It becomes the sin qua non of phenomenon. Chi is the stream in which life (Shen) floats upon. When a master speaks of the development of chi, she or he speaks of the union of all things. Not the development of some form of energy localized in the body, > though this is what seems to be. The meridians, 8 psychic vessels and three dantiens that reside in the body are nothing more than murky reflections of their true counter parts. In the last few sentences I wrote, the true secret to chi emission was given. Attempt to gleem it. > > It has been written that a journey of a thousand miles may begin with a single step. But people need to stop and give thought to rather or not that first step is in the right direction. It is easy to begin on a journey to the East. But if your first step is Westward you will haft to circle the world rightly before you ever get there. Who was it that said a straight line is the shortest path? Something to give thought to before you continue to speak on those subjects you know very little of while your claim to them is more intuitive knowledge then knowledge gleemed from both that of intuition and direct experience. > > As far as the technique you have given, it is garbage. Just like the rest of the stuff brought to the west with the new age craze. Everyone thinks they know how to emit energy. What you are doing is the lowest level of chi emission. If it effects or triggers a change in anyone, I will consider the report as being made by someone who was given a placebo. True Chi work is direct, deliberate and taken with full knowledge. Did you even know the the way in which you even transmit chi is different for every human being. No two people are the same, yet still those who know very little of chi kung attempt to create a one technique fits all method. Chi application is organic in nature because at its very essence the purpose of chi kung is to bring life herself into the direct control of the Yi of the weilder. I think I said enough to say everything yet say nothing to those that do not need to hear what I have said. > > Kevin Dockery, Director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Human Knowledge > www.fahk.org > > > I suspect that many practitioners on this forum have not studied > qigong and may find the subject of qi emission sounding rather foreign > and exotic. It is actually quite simple and straightforward and I > would like to briefly describe how I feel when I use qigong. It feels > exactly the same whether I do it myself or with someone else - with > some minor exceptions that I will explain. > > Given that this is a TCM group, most forum members understand and > accept the concept of " wei qi " . That is, the qi that extends beyond > our physical body. This qi, which is nothing more than an extension of > our jingluo qi (it is all the same, just fulfilling different > purposes), " breathes " in and out along with our breath and our mind > intention. One aspect of qigong training is to nurture this process. > Another is to learn how to store qi in our extraordinary vessels so > that we can call upon this reservoir of qi when we need it. > > I view one of the roles of qi is to act as the " oil " of the body. It > keeps the body clean and running smoothly so that the body can nourish > and if necessary repair itself - also by utilizing qi. What transforms > qi into these many uses? - Individual consciousness or Shen. Shen > lives in the 5 viscera. > > A person will become ill because of obstructions that may be present > at the energetic or physical layer. The physical layer is nothing more > than condensed qi. Because the physical layer is " condensed " , it is > easier to remove obstructions at this layer using " condensed qi " . > Hence, the reason for using physical tuina manipulation along with > other techniques such as cupping and gua sha. > > For the same reason, it is easier to eliminate obstructions at the > energetic layer using qigong. In other words - " likes move likes " . For > certain purposes, I will move qi " out of the body " using intent in > order to eliminate energetic obstructions - i.e. cold qi. I simply use > intent and motion of the extended qi of my body (similar to moving > qigong or standing taiji) to move " evil " or " cold " (stagnant) qi out > of the body of the person. It feels like a cool breeze. I can then > reverse the process and assist the qi to begin moving again by either > touching the person with warm qi (I will rub my hands to bring the qi > to the surface) or by using intent to " breath " the qi out of my body > and warm the receiving body. This is just a few inches at most. > > When I touch the person, I will normally feel a very slight " buzzing " > feeling (like electricity) or I may feel a deep breathing of the body. > It may feel like a little flow pulse. It is different for each person. > Interestingly, once the qi is flowing again, the receiving person will > automatically shut down the reception of qi from me and start going on > their own. So I am like a battery jump start in the process. > > The ability to help someone using this method largely depends upon how > well modulated is the givers Mind. There should be awareness of the > breath and a certain calmness. Otherwise the qi energy cannot be > harmonized between the giver and the receiver. Developing this > well-modulated awareness is a key aspect of qigong training. > > Just like any other modality, qigong is not for everyone. I suspect > that many of the other modalities in TCM were developed by ancient > doctors who preferred one approach over another because it suited them > best. But for those who are inclined toward this approach, it is very > worthwhile studying since it not only benefits patients but also > greatly benefits oneself. > > Regards, > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Hi Kevin, I hardly think that your approach of slapping Rich down with your 'superior knowledge' is that useful. For that matter all you have shared is more words where as Rich also shared his experience. IMO Were you to share practical examples of your experience your understanding might shine for the rest of us like a beacon. of course I will understand if you consider me 'one of those that does not need to hear' in which case this email will self destruct...5...4......3....2....1...... salvador Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Hi Kevin, > Chi application is organic in nature because at its very essence the > purpose of chi kung is to bring life herself into the direct control > of the Yi of the weilder. Interesting perspective. I do not see it in this way at all. But I do very much agree with you that everyone experiences qigong and studies it in their own way and for their own purposes. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Hi Dermot, Thank you for your posting. I try to maintain a posture of a student that is here to share experiences, and learn. When I ever reach the point that I think I " know " something better than someone else - then, I believe, it is that precise thought that has begun my own process of Shen stagnation - and I seek to clear the obstruction. :-) I always try to maintain an openess to all ideas - like a network rather than a hierarchy because networks are open-ended in all directions and a hierarchy is closed at the top. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Hi Roseanne, and Salvador, Yes, I very much agree that it would be interesting to hear from others about their experiences. It is difficult sometimes because one has to deal with metaphors to describe the experience. But I try my best to relate the experiences that I have encountered - as does my own teacher. My teacher is very open and attempts to make qigong accessible and available to everyone. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Relevant to the discussion in a general sense. This is a very interesting paper for anyone who cares to study it. http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/naturearticle.htm Sammy. prostateman.org - " Rich " <rfinkelstein <Chinese Medicine > Friday, August 06, 2004 2:40 PM Re: Qi Emission > Hi Kevin, > > > Chi application is organic in nature because at its very essence the > > purpose of chi kung is to bring life herself into the direct control > > of the Yi of the weilder. > > Interesting perspective. I do not see it in this way at all. But I do > very much agree with you that everyone experiences qigong and studies > it in their own way and for their own purposes. > > Regards, > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 Friday, August 06, 2004 5:47 PM Re: Qi Emission Relevant to the discussion in a general sense. This is a very interesting paper for anyone who cares to study it. http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/naturearticle.htm Sammy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Hi Sammy, Thank you for the reference. A couple of interesting statements in the article: " The percipent and the source of information are in a resonant relationship for the information to be accuratately perceived. " As applied to medicine, I think this statement can be applied to the affect that the doctor/patient relationship might bear on cure. Good resonsance is required in order for information to be exchanged. I believe that this is a function of the Mind, and the more " calm " the Mind the more easily it can find the appropriate resonance - sort of like a regular wave pattern as opposed to a chaotic one. " Existence of the non-local quantum hologram suggests that nature has utilized non-local information from the big bang forward .. " This is the crux of the article. That there is information that is being passed all the time, that are not dependent upon the five senses. This makes perfect sense to me, since clearly there is so much phenomenon that surrounds us (e.g., the emotions) that cannot be explained via the senses. One of the objectives, I believe, of qigong, is to nuture the sensitivity to non-local information. Thanks again for the article. I would be interested in any comments that you may have as I continue reading it. Regards, Rich Chinese Medicine , " sammy_bates " <sammy_bates@b...> wrote: > Relevant to the discussion in a general sense. This is a very interesting > paper for anyone who cares to study it. > > http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/naturearticle.htm > > Sammy. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 How do you recommend studying this method? How did you study? Betty In a message dated 8/5/2004 10:39:05 AM Central Daylight Time, rfinkelstein writes: Hi all, I suspect that many practitioners on this forum have not studied qigong and may find the subject of qi emission sounding rather foreign and exotic. It is actually quite simple and straightforward and I would like to briefly describe how I feel when I use qigong. It feels exactly the same whether I do it myself or with someone else - with some minor exceptions that I will explain. Given that this is a TCM group, most forum members understand and accept the concept of " wei qi " . That is, the qi that extends beyond our physical body. This qi, which is nothing more than an extension of our jingluo qi (it is all the same, just fulfilling different purposes), " breathes " in and out along with our breath and our mind intention. One aspect of qigong training is to nurture this process. Another is to learn how to store qi in our extraordinary vessels so that we can call upon this reservoir of qi when we need it. I view one of the roles of qi is to act as the " oil " of the body. It keeps the body clean and running smoothly so that the body can nourish and if necessary repair itself - also by utilizing qi. What transforms qi into these many uses? - Individual consciousness or Shen. Shen lives in the 5 viscera. A person will become ill because of obstructions that may be present at the energetic or physical layer. The physical layer is nothing more than condensed qi. Because the physical layer is " condensed " , it is easier to remove obstructions at this layer using " condensed qi " . Hence, the reason for using physical tuina manipulation along with other techniques such as cupping and gua sha. For the same reason, it is easier to eliminate obstructions at the energetic layer using qigong. In other words - " likes move likes " . For certain purposes, I will move qi " out of the body " using intent in order to eliminate energetic obstructions - i.e. cold qi. I simply use intent and motion of the extended qi of my body (similar to moving qigong or standing taiji) to move " evil " or " cold " (stagnant) qi out of the body of the person. It feels like a cool breeze. I can then reverse the process and assist the qi to begin moving again by either touching the person with warm qi (I will rub my hands to bring the qi to the surface) or by using intent to " breath " the qi out of my body and warm the receiving body. This is just a few inches at most. When I touch the person, I will normally feel a very slight " buzzing " feeling (like electricity) or I may feel a deep breathing of the body. It may feel like a little flow pulse. It is different for each person. Interestingly, once the qi is flowing again, the receiving person will automatically shut down the reception of qi from me and start going on their own. So I am like a battery jump start in the process. The ability to help someone using this method largely depends upon how well modulated is the givers Mind. There should be awareness of the breath and a certain calmness. Otherwise the qi energy cannot be harmonized between the giver and the receiver. Developing this well-modulated awareness is a key aspect of qigong training. Just like any other modality, qigong is not for everyone. I suspect that many of the other modalities in TCM were developed by ancient doctors who preferred one approach over another because it suited them best. But for those who are inclined toward this approach, it is very worthwhile studying since it not only benefits patients but also greatly benefits oneself. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Hi Bettty, > How do you recommend studying this method? How did you study? > > Betty > There is the long reply, which would outline my personal history over the last 25 years, and then there is the short reply, which I hope is a bit more practical yet still useful. There are many ways to approach " qi cultivation and awareness " . Among the more common are taiji, qigong, yoga, various meditation techniques (e.g. zen budddhism), etc. I have personally studied taiji, qigong, and yoga, always with the attitude to learn more about " consciousness " . Everyone is different, and everyone learns in their own way. For me it has been a gradually evolving process where I have have slowly increased my overall awareness of everything that may be inside or outside of me. To this end, I have tried to be " open " to new ideas and try lots of things: sports, arts, philosophy, health, etc. It seems the more I learn about things, the more they all seem the same. Different but still the same. This is one observation that I experienced that has helped me develop a " pattern of awareness " . The other thing that helped me " understand " things better is that I try to accept everything and not to take anything to seriously - especially myself. There seems to be an reciprocal relationship between Awareness and Ego. The more I think of myself, the less I see what's around me. It is sort of like the focus of a lens. The more the lens is focused on one thing, the more things are blurred all around it. This is no small personal discovery, but it may be only relevent to me since as I said, everyone is different. Over time, I became more aware of the qi in my body and I became more aware of the qi flow in other people's body - through practice of Taiji Push Hands, shiatsu, tuina, etc. It can happen very quickly or it can take a long time. Everyone is different. It is not about getting a " new power " but it is more a matter of developing Awareness. I am quite certain there are many people who are born with this Awareness - and are off doing something else in their life. :-) If I was to recommend something to you, I would say trust your own intuition. That is, ... where do you want to start. It could be taiji or qigong ... or it could be dancing and singing. It is all the same ... and it is all different. For me, it is all a matter of inceasing Awareness of what is already there .. sort of like playing the game, " Where's Waldo " . When you find him, you realize he was always there, all you had to do was see him. :-) Let me know if you need any more specific information. But this is a complex subject and I tried to keep my answer as brief as I could without being totally meaningless. Regards, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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