Energy Medicine?

[Guest guest]

>

[Z'ev]

> While Chinese medicine was not always taught in academies or formal

> schools (although even this type of education goes back centuries),

> Chinese medicine was always based on a literary tradition of study and

> text, like it or not. This is how it has survived somewhat intact,

> unlike, sadly, native American herbalism.

 

[RICH]

One is what someone mentioned before, that the method of learning CM

primarily from textbooks is a 'western' method. People seem so

concerned that we not lose any of the Chinese theory (through lack of

reading the language, for instance) yet do these same people care if

we lose the 'eastern' methods of learning (movement, energy work,

direct hands-on learning, direct transmission?)

 

Rich,

 

I 100% agree with Z'ev, according to Dan Bensky, The literary

tradition has been going on for quite some time (way before the

western influence) – I.e. if you wanted to study with Zhang ZHong

Jing, you would have to memorize his book (SHL) (ala textbook) before

you could even study with him. Again the belief that CM was once some

energetic body work type of medicine is unsubstantiated and IMO a

newage fantasy. Energy type healing methods have RARE mention in the

historical record, this should be noted.

 

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[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " "

wrote:

> Rich,

Again the belief that CM was once some

> energetic body work type of medicine is unsubstantiated and IMO a

> newage fantasy. Energy type healing methods have RARE mention in

the

> historical record, this should be noted.

>

> -

 

Hi Jason

 

Do you have any information as to how the acupoints were first

discovered? Could they have been discovered without some tactile

i.o. " Qi " techniques of perception? How do you locate points on your

patients? Strictly by measuring cun from landmarks, or do you " feel "

a difference there? I've always wondered this myself and would be

interested to hear your thoughts or wheather there is any

information (perhaps only legends) on this in Chinese?

 

Thanks, Shanna

[Guest guest]

Hi Shanna,

>

> Do you have any information as to how the acupoints were first

> discovered? Could they have been discovered without some tactile

> i.o. " Qi " techniques of perception? How do you locate points on your

> patients? Strictly by measuring cun from landmarks, or do you " feel "

> a difference there? I've always wondered this myself and would be

> interested to hear your thoughts or wheather there is any

> information (perhaps only legends) on this in Chinese?

>

> Thanks, Shanna

 

Though the question was asked of Jason, I hope that you do not mind if

I relate what my doctor told me. Basically he said that the path of

meridians is different for each individual, the point locations are

different for each individual, and they change over time in each

individual. Everything changes. He uses his senses (physical touch as

well as energetic) to determine the course and condition of the

meridians and uses touch and qigong to treat the complete meridian

paths as well as individual points - as well as all the physical

aspects of the body. He is primarily interested in finding

obstructions along these paths, eliminating them, and energizing

using qigong. He is not concerned with where they are - just that he

senses something as he palpates the body. If they move, they move.

Since he is always working the whole body, it doesn't matter to him -

though movement may indicate a positive realignment within the body.

In my own sessions I have found this description to be quite effective

and helpful.

 

I hope you and other forum members find this information useful.

 

Rich

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " shannahickle "

<shannahickle> wrote:

 

>

> Hi Jason

>

> Do you have any information as to how the acupoints were first

> discovered? Could they have been discovered without some tactile

> i.o. " Qi " techniques of perception? How do you locate points on your

> patients? Strictly by measuring cun from landmarks, or do you " feel "

> a difference there? I've always wondered this myself and would be

> interested to hear your thoughts or wheather there is any

> information (perhaps only legends) on this in Chinese?

>

> Thanks, Shanna

 

I do use a very subtle (Japanese) style way of finding points via

minute changes in skin etc. Although, this subtle method is not

mainstream in Japan either. I don't think I have ever talked to

anyone (except maybe Jason Robertson) that has come back from China

and not said what I said, " There is nothing subtle about Chinese

Acupuncture. " Meaning it is very brute-force (finding and

needling)... But let us go back 4000 years or so. First, needles were

huge - not really even needles. According to Unschuld, acupuncture

originated from the idea that demons were in the body and must be

driven out, (previous to this, if I remember correctly, was the idea

that demons were in the corners of the rooms, and spears were thrown

at them.) but anyway, once they were presumed to be in the body they

were attempted to be driven out (to stop pain, disease etc). This was

not subtle qigong master meditating sensing all the acupoints while

trying to reach Samadhi. I have never read anything of merit that

suggests this. It was more about poking larger objects into the skin

and muscle. This makes much more sense to me than some daoist monk

meditating in a cave with a crystal finding acupoints. In the

Suwen/lingshu I think there is only 1 mention of anything subtle when

it comes to acupuncture. After reading books like unschuld, history

of Chinese medicine etc, and looking at acupuncture now, I doubt that

there was some super energetic `qi thang' going on. Ask Ken Rose what

he thinks, he would be good input on the subject, since he is mainly a

body worker. As many of you know, most people who really delve into

the word (qi) from a historical perspective, as Ken, really hate the

idea that we translate it as energy. Many argue that this energetic

way of perceiving it just was not how the word translates. I trust

Unschuld almost more than anyone, at least not to make stuff up. What

has your experience been watching Chinese Needle?

 

Finally though, I have often weighed in on the importance

of accepting the more energetic style of acupuncture. Do I contradict

myself? Not really... I believe the historical record as above, but

feel that we have evolved a much more energetic style approach, which

is not the PRC standard. I practice a very subtle style of

acupuncture (much non-insertion) I believe in the Qi-Gong reports from

Rich, but just as Z'ev as stated, I just like to be clear on what is

what, and for sake of discussion groups try to separate out things

that might not necessarily jive with TCM thought, for sake of

non-confusion.

 

Any other historical accounts of how acupunture started?

 

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