Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hi, Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at night. Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she went on this diet. She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely gone (since the last 3 months). Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... She craves carbohydrate and coffee. She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. Any ideas or comments welcomed! Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? Thanks May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Sounds like a lingering pathogen to me. With acupuncture, I would do the Shaoyang.....perhaps wiht Lu 5 along with St 40, and maybe St 36 to enhance her bodies ability to dislodge the pathogen. Du 1 might be helpful as well. Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > Hi, > > Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. > > She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 > years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at > night. > > Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a > yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal > itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still > very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which > vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she > went on this diet. > > She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor > sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and > needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of > excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely > gone (since the last 3 months). > > Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is > that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats > a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... > > She craves carbohydrate and coffee. > > She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. > > Any ideas or comments welcomed! > Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? > > Thanks > > > May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi May! Is she overweight? Boils? Are these red and sore or hot? I think these may be thrombosed hemorrhoids. You could do a TCM differentiation, pulse, tongue etc. I am guessing a liver or GB syndrome, but that is a guess. If the stool isn't brown there is a shortage of bile, either not being produced or not getting into the digestive system. I think you might also consider a pregnancy test in a young woman who has not had a period in three months if this has not already been done. I usually want to know everything the patient is taking, meds, supplements and the like. In a case like this a food journal of a couple weeks - food, time eaten, quantity etc., would be instructive as well. You want to know whether or not she is giving in to the carbohydrate and coffee craving, the food journal would show that if she will keep one. Usually people who have eating disorders to one degree or another don't want to keep food journals, though. At 02:47 PM 7/16/2004, you wrote: >Hi, > >Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. > >She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 >years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at >night. > >Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a >yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal >itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still >very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which >vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she >went on this diet. > >She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor >sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and >needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of >excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely >gone (since the last 3 months). > >Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is >that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats >a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... > >She craves carbohydrate and coffee. > >She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. > >Any ideas or comments welcomed! >Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? > >Thanks > > >May Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi May Does she have any discharge from her anus? Ask her to wipe herself when she is having itching to find out. Sometimes a little stool- fluid is leaking causing irritation and itching. I have found that adding astringing medicinals to her formula like Mu Li help immensely to stop this process. Also, my patient's gluteal boils went away with this treatment. I suspect it's a type of damp mixed with non-astringing of fluids. Her entire syndrome must be differentiated and then some of these other medicinals added. My patient ended up also presenting with cloudy urine which eventually went orange/bloody. I treated her for deficiency type cloudy lin and the anal itching/leaking and bum sores also disappeared. What a relief!! Good luck. The formula for cloudy lin which worked is below: Shan Yao 12g Qian shi 6g Sheng Di Huang 9g Long Gu 12 g Mu Li 12g Bai Shao 6g Dang Shen 6g My patient also had sometimes (during and after menses) trouble sleeping, fatigue on and off, low back pain on and off, acne around period, cloudy urine, sometimes urgent urination which could be dark especially in the morning. Her stools were loose with some undigested food sometimes. She also had a pastey white to yellow vaginal discharge which she had always considered normal but which went away with 2 bags of the above formula. All her symptoms are now relieved. No acupuncture. Good Luck. Shanna Chinese Medicine , May Lucken- Ardjomande <maylucken@q...> wrote: > Hi, > > Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. > > She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 > years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at > night. > > Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a > yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal > itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still > very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which > vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she > went on this diet. > > She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor > sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and > needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of > excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely > gone (since the last 3 months). > > Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is > that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats > a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... > > She craves carbohydrate and coffee. > > She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. > > Any ideas or comments welcomed! > Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? > > Thanks > > > May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi Pete, No she isn't overweight all all. Not pregnant. The boils are red and sore, not really hot. They change in texture more or less every day. Quite watery. They only appeared about a month ago (and the perianal/anal itching is 2 years old). The itching that is very severe. Her main diet is yeast-free bread and butter for breakfast and morning snack/ carrots, salad for lunch, no afternoon snack and fish, greens and brown rice for diner. Occasional chicken. Some cashew nuts. The coffee is decaf. No tea. Only herbal e.g. chamomile. She gives in to her craving i.e.. Each yeast free bread and decaf coffee (once or twice a day). Supplements taken: milk thistle, Echinacea. Ginseng, caprylic acid, golden seal, vitamin C, vitamin B6, fish oil, advanced multion-billion dophilus and pancreatin. I am thinking of putting her for a month on Shi Quan Ba Bu Tang. Primarily to start to deal with the menses (or lack of). An maybe use a herbal wash to help with the itching. Not sure what yet. Tongue is swollen, teethmarks, no cracks, thin white coating, pale. Pulse is moderate, deep at left and right cubit position. Left bar wiry. Both inch positions weak. May On 17/7/04 8:45 am, " Pete Theisen " <petet wrote: > Hi May! > > Is she overweight? > > Boils? Are these red and sore or hot? I think these may be thrombosed > hemorrhoids. You could do a TCM differentiation, pulse, tongue etc. I am > guessing a liver or GB syndrome, but that is a guess. If the stool isn't > brown there is a shortage of bile, either not being produced or not getting > into the digestive system. > > I think you might also consider a pregnancy test in a young woman who has > not had a period in three months if this has not already been done. > > I usually want to know everything the patient is taking, meds, supplements > and the like. In a case like this a food journal of a couple weeks - food, > time eaten, quantity etc., would be instructive as well. You want to know > whether or not she is giving in to the carbohydrate and coffee craving, the > food journal would show that if she will keep one. Usually people who have > eating disorders to one degree or another don't want to keep food journals, > though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi Shanna, Thanks for your reply. I will check when I see her next week. Since her menses have completely stopped (and she isn't pregnant) I think that's the primary thing to deal with. I thought to try to put her on something like Shi Quan Da bu Tang. As far as she told me when I first saw her last week, her urine is clear, but I asked her to check this over the week. Thanks again May On 17/7/04 2:14 pm, " shannahickle " <shannahickle wrote: > Hi May > > Does she have any discharge from her anus? Ask her to wipe herself > when she is having itching to find out. Sometimes a little stool- > fluid is leaking causing irritation and itching. I have found that > adding astringing medicinals to her formula like Mu Li help > immensely to stop this process. Also, my patient's gluteal boils > went away with this treatment. I suspect it's a type of damp mixed > with non-astringing of fluids. Her entire syndrome must be > differentiated and then some of these other medicinals added. My > patient ended up also presenting with cloudy urine which eventually > went orange/bloody. I treated her for deficiency type cloudy lin and > the anal itching/leaking and bum sores also disappeared. What a > relief!! Good luck. The formula for cloudy lin which worked is below: > > Shan Yao 12g > Qian shi 6g > Sheng Di Huang 9g > Long Gu 12 g > Mu Li 12g > Bai Shao 6g > Dang Shen 6g > > My patient also had sometimes (during and after menses) trouble > sleeping, fatigue on and off, low back pain on and off, acne around > period, cloudy urine, sometimes urgent urination which could be dark > especially in the morning. Her stools were loose with some > undigested food sometimes. She also had a pastey white to yellow > vaginal discharge which she had always considered normal but which > went away with 2 bags of the above formula. All her symptoms are now > relieved. No acupuncture. Good Luck. > > Shanna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 May - Your patient should also be checked for parasites. Matt - May Lucken-Ardjomande Chinese Medicine Friday, July 16, 2004 11:47 AM Patient case help and advice? Hi, Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at night. Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she went on this diet. She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely gone (since the last 3 months). Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... She craves carbohydrate and coffee. She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. Any ideas or comments welcomed! Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? Thanks May Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi May, What is her pulse, tongue color and coating? By the way, congratulations! if the addition to your name indicates what I think it indicates. Ming May Lucken-Ardjomande <maylucken wrote: Hi, Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at night. Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she went on this diet. She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely gone (since the last 3 months). Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... She craves carbohydrate and coffee. She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. Any ideas or comments welcomed! Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? Thanks May Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Hi Matt, She is on a waiting list to do those test, but the earliest will be in 6 months (The UK NHS for you!). May On 17/7/04 3:49 pm, " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy wrote: > May - Your patient should also be checked for parasites. Matt > - > May Lucken-Ardjomande > Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 16, 2004 11:47 AM > Patient case help and advice? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Six months -wow. Any private labs that will test samples through the mail for reasonable costs? Matt - May Lucken-Ardjomande Chinese Medicine Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:33 PM Re: Patient case help and advice? Hi Matt, She is on a waiting list to do those test, but the earliest will be in 6 months (The UK NHS for you!). May On 17/7/04 3:49 pm, " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy wrote: > May - Your patient should also be checked for parasites. Matt > - > May Lucken-Ardjomande > Chinese Medicine > Friday, July 16, 2004 11:47 AM > Patient case help and advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 May, Shih quan da bu tang will be contraindicated in this case, because of the damp heat symptoms and itching, which may be aggravated by the warm, greasy supplementing herbs. Also, she needs to stop taking echinacea and golden seal, two cold medicinals that can damage spleen qi. This sounds like a complex case with a mixture of kidney/spleen yang vacuity and damp-heat in the lower burner so far. For an herbal wash, consider huang bai, she chuang zi, ku shen, and yi yi ren. On Jul 17, 2004, at 7:08 AM, May Lucken-Ardjomande wrote: > Hi Pete, > > No she isn't overweight all all. > > Not pregnant. > > The boils are red and sore, not really hot. They change in texture > more or > less every day. Quite watery. They only appeared about a month ago > (and the > perianal/anal itching is 2 years old). > The itching that is very severe. > > > Her main diet is yeast-free bread and butter for breakfast and morning > snack/ carrots, salad for lunch, no afternoon snack and fish, greens > and > brown rice for diner. Occasional chicken. Some cashew nuts. > The coffee is decaf. No tea. Only herbal e.g. chamomile. > > She gives in to her craving i.e.. Each yeast free bread and decaf > coffee > (once or twice a day). > > Supplements taken: > milk thistle, Echinacea. Ginseng, caprylic acid, golden seal, vitamin > C, > vitamin B6, fish oil, advanced multion-billion dophilus and pancreatin. > > > I am thinking of putting her for a month on Shi Quan Ba Bu Tang. > Primarily to start to deal with the menses (or lack of). > > An maybe use a herbal wash to help with the itching. Not sure what yet. > > Tongue is swollen, teethmarks, no cracks, thin white coating, pale. > > Pulse is moderate, deep at left and right cubit position. Left bar > wiry. > Both inch positions weak. > > May > > > On 17/7/04 8:45 am, " Pete Theisen " <petet wrote: > >> Hi May! >> >> Is she overweight? >> >> Boils? Are these red and sore or hot? I think these may be thrombosed >> hemorrhoids. You could do a TCM differentiation, pulse, tongue etc. I >> am >> guessing a liver or GB syndrome, but that is a guess. If the stool >> isn't >> brown there is a shortage of bile, either not being produced or not >> getting >> into the digestive system. >> >> I think you might also consider a pregnancy test in a young woman who >> has >> not had a period in three months if this has not already been done. >> >> I usually want to know everything the patient is taking, meds, >> supplements >> and the like. In a case like this a food journal of a couple weeks - >> food, >> time eaten, quantity etc., would be instructive as well. You want to >> know >> whether or not she is giving in to the carbohydrate and coffee >> craving, the >> food journal would show that if she will keep one. Usually people who >> have >> eating disorders to one degree or another don't want to keep food >> journals, >> though. > > > > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, > religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being > delivered. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi May! Comments in (parentheses), and below. Of course you remember all your own parentheses <g>. At 10:08 AM 7/17/2004, you wrote: >Hi Pete, > >No she isn't overweight all all. (Underweight?) > >Not pregnant. (Inquire about sexual activities, be alert for anything that >may cause trauma to the area, such as a lover who is into anal sex. If >this is going on, it should stop for a while to let things heal up, then >*maybe* with lots of lubricant and very gently . . . ) > >The boils are red and sore, not really hot. They change in texture more or >less every day. Quite watery. (dampness, I am guessing yeast or fungus in >western terms) They only appeared about a month ago (and the >perianal/anal itching is 2 years old). >The itching that is very severe. (Wind evil is sometimes the cause of >itching. So maybe is wind dampness, yang and blood deficiency?) > >Her main diet is yeast-free bread and butter for breakfast and morning >snack/ carrots, salad for lunch, no afternoon snack and fish, greens and >brown rice for diner. Occasional chicken. Some cashew nuts. >The coffee is decaf. No tea. Only herbal e.g. chamomile. > >She gives in to her craving i.e.. Each yeast free bread and decaf coffee >(once or twice a day). > >Supplements taken: >milk thistle, Echinacea. Ginseng, caprylic acid, golden seal, vitamin C >(increase C to 6000 - 12000 (depending on tolerance) mg per day *time >release*, must be time release at that dosage), >vitamin B6 (add all the other b vitamins - a high potency b vitamin >complex formula), fish oil, advanced multion-billion dophilus and >pancreatin. (add a multiple mineral formula, assign reading of Earl >Mindel's vitamin bible, cheap in paperback). > >I am thinking of putting her for a month on Shi Quan Ba Bu Tang. (Do you >mean Shi Quan *Da* Bu Tang - tonifying qi and blood? Bensky p. 260) >Primarily to start to deal with the menses (or lack of). > >An maybe use a herbal wash to help with the itching. Not sure what yet. >(try some tolnaftate salve or powder, western med idea, but it works quite >well, over the counter in the US, don't know about UK) > >Tongue is swollen, teethmarks, ( " retention of dampness due to yang >deficiency " Maciocia p. 151) no cracks, thin white coating, pale >( " deficiency of yang or deficiency of blood " p. 150). > >Pulse is moderate, deep at left and right cubit position. (deep weak or >deep full? Maciocia p. 167) Left bar wiry. (Liver disharmony, p. 169) >Both inch positions weak. (heart and lung, CAM p. 268) Young women who are not overweight may be deficient in basic nutrition, particularly vitamins and minerals. Then there are micro nutrients that you need *a little* of, but never get *any* of them in a diet low enough in calories to prevent getting fat. Chinese herbal tonics I think contain micro nutrients, many of which have no officially established need in Human nutrition. Yang deficiency, blood deficiency may be the same thing in TCM as the western vitamin and mineral deficiency. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi May! How much to see someone private for the tests? It is only money . . . At 06:33 PM 7/17/2004, you wrote: >Hi Matt, > >She is on a waiting list to do those test, but the earliest will be in 6 >months (The UK NHS for you!). > >May Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi May, I agree with Matt Bauer's assessment, and I believe that it is a strong possibility that this is the work of pinworms. The female pinworms move out of the anus to lay eggs, and this leads to the itching around the anus. Instead of waiting 6 months for a test, I think a couple of formulas from a Chinese website may help your patient. I have never tested them, but the formula seem logical for your patient's condition. 1. The anal wash Shi Lio Pi (Punita granatum L.) (30g) + Vinegar (15g) (?) Pound the Shi Lio Pi into small pieces and boil the herb in 500 ml of water. Once the solution is in a boil add the vinegar. You can first use the solution to " smoke " the anus. As the temperature cools to acceptable warm temperature, use the solution as a wash. 2. The herbal formula Shi Lio Pi (3 g) + Bing Lang (Areca cathecu L.) (4.5 g) Cook the herbs as you would cook it in a herbal formula. The patient should consume the herb for a period of 3 days. The source is the following website: http://www.npcnews.com.cn/big5/paper152/1/class015200007/hwz132572.htm Hope this helps. Sincerely, Ming H. Lee May Lucken-Ardjomande <maylucken wrote:Hi Ming, So... Tongue is swollen, teethmarks, no cracks, thin white coating, pale. Pulse is moderate, deep at left and right cubit position. Left bar wiry. Both inch positions weak. Hope you are well. May ps: no good news yet. I have both my parents family names. lol On 17/7/04 5:19 pm, " Ming H. Lee " wrote: > Hi May, > > What is her pulse, tongue color and coating? By the way, congratulations! if > the addition to your name indicates what I think it indicates. > > Ming > > May Lucken-Ardjomande wrote: > Hi, > > Wondered if anyone could help with this new patients I am having. > > She is 31 years old, and is suffering from severe anal itching for about 2 > years. She has some anal fissures as well. The itching is usually worse at > night. > > Following the advise of a allergy testing practitioner, she went on a > yeast-free, sugar-free diet about 3 months ago. Since then the vaginal > itching she was also experiencing has gone, but the anal itching is still > very present. She started developing boils on the rim of her bottom, which > vary each day in hardness. And her periods have completely stopped since she > went on this diet. > > She is also very fatigued, has cold hand/feet/nose, lack of strength, poor > sleep (mainly because she wakes up 2-3 times at night from the itching and > needs to take baths), has recurrent cold sores and flu, has a feeling of > excess phlegm but that she can't expectorate, and her libido is completely > gone (since the last 3 months). > > Her stools change in texture/color and odor every day. What is surprising is > that her stools takes the color of whatever she eats. Fr example if she eats > a small plate of carrots they go orange; beans they go green etc... > > She craves carbohydrate and coffee. > > She sometimes experiences spots in the corner of her eye. > > Any ideas or comments welcomed! > Also any ideas on washes or creams that could help locally? > > Thanks > > > May > > > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, > spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being > delivered. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 No idea. Do anyone know how someone in the UK? On 18/7/04 4:13 am, " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy wrote: > Six months -wow. Any private labs that will test samples through the mail for > reasonable costs? Matt > - > May Lucken-Ardjomande > Chinese Medicine > Saturday, July 17, 2004 3:33 PM > Re: Patient case help and advice? > > Hi Matt, > > She is on a waiting list to do those test, but the earliest will be in 6 > months (The UK NHS for you!). > > May > > > On 17/7/04 3:49 pm, " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy wrote: > >> May - Your patient should also be checked for parasites. Matt >> - >> May Lucken-Ardjomande >> Chinese Medicine >> Friday, July 16, 2004 11:47 AM >> Patient case help and advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi May A trick we used on pediatrics is to put a piece of surgical adhesive tape over the anus when the child went to bed at nite. the pinworms come out and stick to the tape, it's not one hundred percent and you may have to do it a few nites in a row but it may save waiting 6 months for a test. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 May, That's a very legitimate question and not a stupid one. Let's start with the tongue. The tongue color is pale which indicates either cold or blood deficiency. In her case it indicates both, because these parasitic worms tend to feed on the blood of the patient. Lack of blood will also leads to cold and possibly yang deficiency. In her case it also lead to a stop in her periods. As you know period will delay if a female patient has a blood deficiency. For your patient it completely stopped, which in my opinion lead me to believe that the patient's blood deficiency problem is quite severe. Heat and pale color are inconsistent and incompatible. The swollen tongue is a sign of qi deficiency and it is likely the result of the severe blood deficiency since it is the blood that carries the qi. Furthermore, there is no crack which indicates that there is no yin deficiency which may result in heat. So, we can pretty much rule out heat as a possibility. The coating is thin white which is surprisingly normal for her condition indicate that there is no dampness present. The color is white, and that's another sign that there is no heat. The pulse also showed no sign of dampness (ie. slippery pulse) or heat (pounding or speedy). Cold hands and feet are also indications of blood deficiency since circulating blood brings heat. Cold sores and flu is consistent with the weakened immune system brought on by the blood deficiency. Taken together with the patient's desription that her anus only itches at night, we have a pretty good possibility that there may be pinworms present since the females lays eggs at night around the anus area. Try the formula. If it doesn't work, refer her to an allopath. Ming May Lucken-Ardjomande <maylucken wrote: Hi Ming, Maybe that’s a stupid question and I should know, but better to ask than to pretend! How can you tell it’s parasites and not just damp heat in the lower burner. How do you differentiate. Also do you think I should deal with this first and when the itch etc... Is gone, then address the fact that her periods have stopped? Sorry to take your time. Thanks May On 18/7/04 4:37 pm, " Ming H. Lee " <aceqihealer wrote: By the way, May. I accidentally left out this instruction for the wash only: Use at night before bed. This makes sense, because the female lays its eggs around the anus area at night. You want to get them when they come out for their mischief. Ming Note: forwarded message attached. Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! <http://advision.webevents.//votelifeengine/> New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Hi May, Mary and Ming, The description of itching at night in the anal region immediately put me in thought of pinworms. In the 1950s (boy does this date me), doctors never had children's stools sent to labs to check for pin worms. It's expected that you can look under your own microscope at low power. My family doctor (graduated medical school 1930s) was cool enough to show me, as a little kid, every thing under his microscope. When I went to medical school in Texas, he gave me that microscope, and I have it now in this room. You can see pin worms under low power with any stool sample. In medical school we're taught to do gram stains as well. My family doctor was also cool enough that if he didn't find gram positive bacteria, he didn't give antibiotics. Let's see modern day MDs do that! At any rate, pin worms are seen under low power on your microscope with any stool sample of someone harboring pin worms. You don't need an MD (or a lab) to make a positive diagnosis of pin worms. Respectfully, Emmanuel Segmen Hi May A trick we used on pediatrics is to put a piece of surgical adhesive tape over the anus when the child went to bed at nite. the pinworms come out and stick to the tape, it's not one hundred percent and you may have to do it a few nites in a row but it may save waiting 6 months for a test. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hi Emmanual! Do the pin worms move or have some other characteristic that you can distinguish them? There is often all kinds of stringy stuff in stool. How does the presence of pinworms explain the color of the stool, or is that a separate issue? At 06:20 PM 7/18/2004, you wrote: >Hi May, Mary and Ming, > >The description of itching at night in the anal region immediately put me >in thought of pinworms. In the 1950s (boy does this date me), doctors >never had children's stools sent to labs to check for pin worms. It's >expected that you can look under your own microscope at low power. Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hi All, As well as taking care of pinworms, as described in mails by other listers, one might treat the anal fissures, if present. AP points for anus include: Shu Pt: BL30 (baihuanshu - white circle = anus) and BL25 Nearby Pt: BL35 Local Pts: GV01 or CV01 [omit in shy people!] Distant Pts: GV20 + BL57 Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hi Emmanuel, Now that we have identified the culprit. Is there a way that would tell us if the pinworms and its eggs have been completely eliminated from the patient's body? Best Regards, Ming H. Lee Emmanuel Segmen <susegmen wrote: Hi May, Mary and Ming, The description of itching at night in the anal region immediately put me in thought of pinworms. In the 1950s (boy does this date me), doctors never had children's stools sent to labs to check for pin worms. It's expected that you can look under your own microscope at low power. My family doctor (graduated medical school 1930s) was cool enough to show me, as a little kid, every thing under his microscope. When I went to medical school in Texas, he gave me that microscope, and I have it now in this room. You can see pin worms under low power with any stool sample. In medical school we're taught to do gram stains as well. My family doctor was also cool enough that if he didn't find gram positive bacteria, he didn't give antibiotics. Let's see modern day MDs do that! At any rate, pin worms are seen under low power on your microscope with any stool sample of someone harboring pin worms. You don't need an MD (or a lab) to make a positive diagnosis of pin worms. Respectfully, Emmanuel Segmen Hi May A trick we used on pediatrics is to put a piece of surgical adhesive tape over the anus when the child went to bed at nite. the pinworms come out and stick to the tape, it's not one hundred percent and you may have to do it a few nites in a row but it may save waiting 6 months for a test. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 It's the coffee....decaf or not....it creates lower jiao damp heat...she has to stop it....also have her apply a small amount of PoSum On liniment to the anus every night... it will sting a little but will serve to locally move the stagnation. - " May Lucken-Ardjomande " <maylucken <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:08 AM Re: Patient case help and advice? > Hi Pete, > > No she isn't overweight all all. > > Not pregnant. > > The boils are red and sore, not really hot. They change in texture more or > less every day. Quite watery. They only appeared about a month ago (and the > perianal/anal itching is 2 years old). > The itching that is very severe. > > > Her main diet is yeast-free bread and butter for breakfast and morning > snack/ carrots, salad for lunch, no afternoon snack and fish, greens and > brown rice for diner. Occasional chicken. Some cashew nuts. > The coffee is decaf. No tea. Only herbal e.g. chamomile. > > She gives in to her craving i.e.. Each yeast free bread and decaf coffee > (once or twice a day). > > Supplements taken: > milk thistle, Echinacea. Ginseng, caprylic acid, golden seal, vitamin C, > vitamin B6, fish oil, advanced multion-billion dophilus and pancreatin. > > > I am thinking of putting her for a month on Shi Quan Ba Bu Tang. > Primarily to start to deal with the menses (or lack of). > > An maybe use a herbal wash to help with the itching. Not sure what yet. > > Tongue is swollen, teethmarks, no cracks, thin white coating, pale. > > Pulse is moderate, deep at left and right cubit position. Left bar wiry. > Both inch positions weak. > > May > > > On 17/7/04 8:45 am, " Pete Theisen " <petet wrote: > > > Hi May! > > > > Is she overweight? > > > > Boils? Are these red and sore or hot? I think these may be thrombosed > > hemorrhoids. You could do a TCM differentiation, pulse, tongue etc. I am > > guessing a liver or GB syndrome, but that is a guess. If the stool isn't > > brown there is a shortage of bile, either not being produced or not getting > > into the digestive system. > > > > I think you might also consider a pregnancy test in a young woman who has > > not had a period in three months if this has not already been done. > > > > I usually want to know everything the patient is taking, meds, supplements > > and the like. In a case like this a food journal of a couple weeks - food, > > time eaten, quantity etc., would be instructive as well. You want to know > > whether or not she is giving in to the carbohydrate and coffee craving, the > > food journal would show that if she will keep one. Usually people who have > > eating disorders to one degree or another don't want to keep food journals, > > though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Pete, They look like what they are. Yes, they move. Might be easier to use a swab or Q-tip (though uncomfortable for some) to collect enough to put on a slide. Easier at the time of examination than obtaining a stool. Emmanuel Segmen - Pete Theisen Hi Emmanual! Do the pin worms move or have some other characteristic that you can distinguish them? There is often all kinds of stringy stuff in stool. How does the presence of pinworms explain the color of the stool, or is that a separate issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi Ming, Apparently the patient must wait some bizarre amount of time for a simple lab test. Thus, it might be best to proceed with treatment until there is simply a self-referencing relief from symptoms. While the lab test would be definitive, I'm old enough to have seen a time when this most common of childhood conditions was almost never diagnosed with a lab test. Not quite as common as a cold, but most kids where I grew up experienced pinworms once or twice in their childhood. All the Best, Emmanuel Segmen Hi Emmanuel, Now that we have identified the culprit. Is there a way that would tell us if the pinworms and its eggs have been completely eliminated from the patient's body? Best Regards, Ming H. Lee Emmanuel Segmen <susegmen wrote: Hi May, Mary and Ming, The description of itching at night in the anal region immediately put me in thought of pinworms. In the 1950s (boy does this date me), doctors never had children's stools sent to labs to check for pin worms. It's expected that you can look under your own microscope at low power. My family doctor (graduated medical school 1930s) was cool enough to show me, as a little kid, every thing under his microscope. When I went to medical school in Texas, he gave me that microscope, and I have it now in this room. You can see pin worms under low power with any stool sample. In medical school we're taught to do gram stains as well. My family doctor was also cool enough that if he didn't find gram positive bacteria, he didn't give antibiotics. Let's see modern day MDs do that! At any rate, pin worms are seen under low power on your microscope with any stool sample of someone harboring pin worms. You don't need an MD (or a lab) to make a positive diagnosis of pin worms. Respectfully, Emmanuel Segmen Hi May A trick we used on pediatrics is to put a piece of surgical adhesive tape over the anus when the child went to bed at nite. the pinworms come out and stick to the tape, it's not one hundred percent and you may have to do it a few nites in a row but it may save waiting 6 months for a test. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi Emmanual! Thanks for the reply, good to know that. At 07:05 PM 7/19/2004, you wrote: >Pete, > >They look like what they are. Yes, they move. Might be easier to use a >swab or Q-tip (though uncomfortable for some) to collect enough to put on >a slide. Easier at the time of examination than obtaining a stool. > >Emmanuel Segmen Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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