Re:The Truth Fairy (the dragons treatment)

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , mystir

<ykcul_ritsym> wrote:

> stephen macallan <stephenmacallan@u...> wrote:

>

> Oh gawd,I knew some one would want evidence

>

> Iatrogenic Statistics

>

http://www.garynull.com/documents/iatrogenic/deathbymedicine/DeathByMedicin=

e2.htm

> (Tables)

 

As looking through these sources and looking at the previous stats

that Steve quoted, I am hard pressed to find any 'real' evidence. I.e.

check out the above link (I am just investigating the first stat that

steve quoted : " > > the medical community is now the leading cause of

death in

> > the USA, "

 

Gary null says: The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the

following table is 783,936. then quotes other high death rates (of

course being quoted lower that the above stat)… Most importantly there

is no source for his stat, it somehow appears out of thin air. If one

checks the footnote that follows this stat one of course does not find

it. CDC definitely does not say so… Don't get me wrong I am not

defending the medical community completly, because I do think they do

cause a lot of deaths, but let us be causious about throwing around

stats, it only creates hysteria and more times than not the stats are

bogus or totally manipulated. There are a lot of hysterics out there

and just because they have a website that says something, is a far cry

from a fact. SO THIS fact may or may not be true, it is all in how you

view or define things. The medical community does do a lot of good,

and hopefully we can exert a positive influence on them (because they

are here to stay) – I think everyone loses by slinging mud around.

 

-Jason Blalalck

 

 

 

> http://www.healthisyourwealth.org/HealthInfo/DeathByMedicine.htm

> (more)

> http://www.doctoryourself.com/deathmed.html

>

> Pediatric Medical Errors Kill 4500 Children per year, in US alone.

> http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458-b

>

> Cold Blooded Malpractice Myths

> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/21/opinion/21HERB.html?th

>

> Former FDA Personnel Sabotage Supplement Industry

> http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000017.htm

>

> True cost of Drugs

> http://www.sonomavalleyvoice.com/articles.php?id=411

> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244

>

>

> Pharmacuetical Industry / Political Connections

> http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=123 &

>

> Medical Monopolies over 100 Years

> http://mercola.com/2004/jun/30/ama_money.htm

>

> Plans to Screen Total Population For Mental Illness

> http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7454/1458

>

> Genetically Modified Organisms: No Mo Organic Nothin

> http://www.ivu.org/news/2-97/genetic.html

>

> Catalog of Concentration of Corporations in Food Health and Science

> http://www.etcgroup.org/documents/Comm82OligopNovDec03.pdf

>

> Codex RED ALERTS

> http://www.corsello.com/politics/politics_red_alerts.htm

>

> Some people may be interested in this

> organization and in joining it, cost free. It

> campaigns for all the health issues so important

> to us that big corporations with help from the

> government are keeping from us, like banning

> beneficial and inexpensive homeopathy substances

> and medicines from being sold here, treatments

> that cure from being taught in medical schools,

> etc., etc.

> http://campaignfortruth.com/priorities.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason...

 

--- < wrote:

> that Steve quoted, I am hard pressed to find any

> 'real' evidence. I.e.

> check out the above link (I am just investigating

 

> Gary null says: The total number of iatrogenic

> deaths shown in the

> following table is 783,936. then quotes other high

> death rates (of

> course being quoted lower that the above stat)… Most

> importantly there

> is no source for his stat, it somehow appears out of

> thin air. If one

> checks the footnote that follows this stat one of

> course does not find

> it.

 

I think you might not have spent enough time with the

document. I found the following references for the

stat you quote. I consider myself a die-hard realist,

so if I don't see it happen it doesn't exist for me

whether reference exists for it or not.

 

The first three sources listed in the table (rest are

available in the complete ref list) are:

1. Lazarou J, Pomeranz B, Corey P. Incidence of

adverse drug reactions in hospitalised patients. JAMA.

1998;279:1200-1205.

49. Suh DC, Woodall BS, Shin SK, Hermes DeSantis ER.

Clinical and economic impact of adverse drug reactions

in hospitalised patients. Ann Pharmacother. 2000

Dec;34(12) 1373-9

6. Thomas et al., 2000; Thomas et al., 1999.

Institute of Medicine.

 

Don't know if these are valid.

 

> are here to stay) – I think everyone loses by

> slinging mud around.

 

In this case it may not be exactly or only mud.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

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Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself

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[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor> wrote:

> Hi Jason...

>

> --- wrote:

> > that Steve quoted, I am hard pressed to find any

> > 'real' evidence. I.e.

> > check out the above link (I am just investigating

>

> > Gary null says: The total number of iatrogenic

> > deaths shown in the

> > following table is 783,936. then quotes other high

> > death rates (of

> > course being quoted lower that the above stat)… Most

> > importantly there

> > is no source for his stat, it somehow appears out of

> > thin air. If one

> > checks the footnote that follows this stat one of

> > course does not find

> > it.

>

> I think you might not have spent enough time with the

> document. I found the following references for the

> stat you quote. I consider myself a die-hard realist,

> so if I don't see it happen it doesn't exist for me

> whether reference exists for it or not.

>

> The first three sources listed in the table (rest are

> available in the complete ref list) are:

> 1. Lazarou J, Pomeranz B, Corey P. Incidence of

> adverse drug reactions in hospitalised patients. JAMA.

> 1998;279:1200-1205.

> 49. Suh DC, Woodall BS, Shin SK, Hermes DeSantis ER.

> Clinical and economic impact of adverse drug reactions

> in hospitalised patients. Ann Pharmacother. 2000

> Dec;34(12) 1373-9

> 6. Thomas et al., 2000; Thomas et al., 1999.

> Institute of Medicine.

>

> Don't know if these are valid.

 

 

Hugo,

 

They are not valid, because they do not at all support the kind of

numbers that gary null (or steve) is suggesting. I.e. It is true the

1st documents the incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitals

(which is of course a real phenomenon), but like I said this has

nothing to do with the initial statistic quote. The second source says

nothing also… the 3rd source was not found, but an excerpt was found

that says:

" Between 44,000-98,000 Americans die from medical errors annually

(Institute of Medicine, 2000; Thomas et al., 2000; Thomas et al., 1999) "

This is far from the 783,936 that gary purports… This is just further

evidence that there is more BS out there than …

 

 

So, thanx for trying to find evidence for (in my mind) bogus stats,

but this is IMO mud slinging… If anyone has other sources please

present them, but read them first to see if they actually have

anything to do with the quoted stat.. and if I actually missed

something in your sources, I will be happy to admit that I am wrong…

But either way his stat is not properly sourced anyway, because it is

impossible to find…

 

Respectfully,

 

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Jason!

 

99% of statistics are quite simply made up, unfortunately. It is getting to

the point that you have to do your own studies on everything to be

reasonably sure.

 

At 07:04 PM 7/6/2004, you wrote:<snip>

 

an excerpt was found

>that says:

> " Between 44,000-98,000 Americans die from medical errors annually

>(Institute of Medicine, 2000; Thomas et al., 2000; Thomas et al., 1999) "

>This is far from the 783,936 that gary purports… This is just further

>evidence that there is more BS out there than …

>

 

Regards,

 

Pete