Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hi Stephan, Interesting that you talk about the Liver. I've always believed that the Liver is the gate way for the earthly spirit. A classic example of that is Xiao Yao Wan - Free the Wanderer patent pills. A happy person will always have a calm Liver, free from stagnation. The Liver, I believe, balances the ties of the body to the spirit. Of cause the Liver's emotion is anger, which blocks the Liver's Qi and ability to regulate the body's movement of Qi. This is linked to the fact that acceptance of the world around you will not cause anger and will lead to a happier life. I believe that drug abuse, is caused by people wishing to find a short cut route to the ideal person we believe ourselves to be. Most drugs will highlight certain qualities, relaxed, energetic, perception, etc. I've noticed that drug abuse, especially cannabis greatly affects the Liver's ability to move Qi freely. The 'stoned' feeling felt by users during cannabis consumption, is an exaggerated form of Liver Qi movement, making the body feel light and disorientated, as the lighter forces of spirit Liver Wind rise to the head. After use, the next day, the Liver has a come accustomed to external influences controlling its movement and literally backs off from regulating Qi movement as it expects a third party to do so, in this case the cannabis. No cannabis use, thereafter, leads to Liver Qi stagnation. Once cannabis is introduced again, the Liver Qi stagnation subsides until the next time. The episodes of none cannabis intervention, cause stagnation, leading to Heat and over a long period of time, a pattern of empty Heat in the Liver. What have other members noticed about drug abuse, especially cannabis, and its affects on the body? Kind regards Attilio www.chinesedoctor.co.uk <http://www.chinesedoctor.co.uk/> stephen macallan [stephenmacallan] 01 January 1601 00:00 Chinese Medicine Re: Re: the dragons treatment hello phil and ann, If there is no polluted ch'i, then the protocol merely sedates, slightly, the relevant officials, ,including liver - hence, perhaps, the calmer, nicer patient. regardez stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 > Attilio: > Interesting that you talk about the Liver. I've always believed that the > Liver is the gate way for the earthly spirit. A classic example of that is > Xiao Yao Wan - Free the Wanderer patent pills. A happy person will always > have a calm Liver, free from stagnation. The Liver, I believe, balances the > ties of the body to the spirit. > > Which discussion leads, indirectly and perhaps out of line with the current thought, to the intruguiging 41st Difficult issue in Nan Ching: [i am currently crafting an article on the enigma and much of the thinking below comes from it] 'Only the Liver has two lobes. What does that correspond to?' > The Liver, I believe, balances the > ties of the body to the spirit. Of cause the Liver's emotion is anger, which > blocks the Liver's Qi and ability to regulate the body's movement of Qi. > > Which lobe holds anger? Which depression, or anxiety? Which one finally, stagnated to stasis, leads to the unwelcome Corridors of Rage? The R is the larger lobe and occupies the R upper abdominal quadrant. It adjoins the GB channel at the part that it regulates the Dai [GB 26, 27, 28]. It sits athwart the Liver mu, and the SP mu to boot. Importantly it juxtaposes to the K mu, the only one at the ide of the body, in which case, part of the SJ - GB - Dai - Yang Wei ensemble. The L lobe is minuscule, almost an afterthought, a small player in the Wood drama. Or is it? For small is yin, the basis of all yang big. The Sage explains that the early part of Spring has not yet forgotten Winter, and is as yet in it's womb; and the latter part has not yet greeted fully the summer, and is not yet apposed to it. Hence the two lobes. One season is 90 days, all 4 making the 360. Early part would therefore be 45 days, from last day of winter to 45th day of spring, to be termed the " winter-spring " span of Wood Spring; Later part would therefore be 45 days, from 45th day of spring, to the first day of summer, to be termed the " spring - summer " span of Wood Spring. Which part would hold anger? Instantly the thought arises that impressed anger will live in the left, and the expressed, in the right. Extending this perilously fascinating thought, RAGE would arrive when the inherent yin-hold of the smaller L lobe would give way to the mad expressions of the R, large, overwhelming, and entirely oblivious of the harm it causes. [more later] Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hi Attilio, Strange this subject should come up as the acupuncture group has just concluded a thread in which I was a principle participant. I'll summarize my thoughts and information on the matter here but if you want to read the whole thread go to the acupuncture group and look for the subjects in the last couple of weeks titled " marijuana a great blood/yin tonic " and " ma fen... " It is a spirited discussion between myself and a student of TCM who was " treating " himself with pot and claiming wonderful results with certain " side effects " . According to one of my teachers Dr. Jamie Wu Qian-Zhi, all addictive substances, as you said, move qi to give a temporary feeling of wellbeing. The problem is that they do this at the expense of vital substances--qi, jing and shen--in the long run. Think the coke binger who feels emotionally wonderful and quite energetic during use and then " like being run over by truck " the next days. Marijuana in particular according to Wu, releases and makes available essence (hence the high energy, motivation, wisdom and creativity which seem to available to the user during the high) which is then dissipated as it powerfully moves the qi in the short run. Then the person experiences the textbook aftereffects of dull, spacey mind,lack of motivation, weakness, irritability until they use again. Long term use even contributes to gynecomastia, low sperm count/motility, lowered libido in men (though libido is increased during the high). I had a patient with acute Lin Syndrome once who was a regular pot smoker and reported extreme exacerbation of symptoms of weakness and urinary disturbance with only one puff of the smoke. He was absolutely unable to use while ill in the Kidney. I really have no problem with otherwise healthy people using pot on occassion recreationally as we do many things which effect our essence and health as a matter of " Joi de vive " . People who are sick, however, and fooling themselves into thinking that pot helps them would do much better to get on a good formula or receive an well crafted acupuncture treatment. Think chemo and glaucoma users-- aren't Chinese Herbs safer and more effective, truly restoring ones health at the root? The effects may be slower to realize but true supplementation is never quick. The key is adherence to the middle path so to speak. To become too obsessed with perfect eating/living can also be detrimental to quality of life and creates judgemental attitudes, self-agrandizing behavior, mental rigidity and qi stagnation. However choose wisely and only use very occassionally should be the rule for anything " bad " for us including alcohol, cigarrettes, chocolate, refined white flour...the list goes on and feels and tastes soooooooooo good!!! Thanks for stimulating a most interesting and important thread. Regards, Shanna Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > Interesting that you talk about the Liver. I've always believed that the > Liver is the gate way for the earthly spirit. A classic example of that is > Xiao Yao Wan - Free the Wanderer patent pills. A happy person will always > have a calm Liver, free from stagnation. The Liver, I believe, balances the > ties of the body to the spirit. Of cause the Liver's emotion is anger, which > blocks the Liver's Qi and ability to regulate the body's movement of Qi. > This is linked to the fact that acceptance of the world around you will not > cause anger and will lead to a happier life. > > I believe that drug abuse, is caused by people wishing to find a short cut > route to the ideal person we believe ourselves to be. Most drugs will > highlight certain qualities, relaxed, energetic, perception, etc. I've > noticed that drug abuse, especially cannabis greatly affects the Liver's > ability to move Qi freely. The 'stoned' feeling felt by users during > cannabis consumption, is an exaggerated form of Liver Qi movement, making > the body feel light and disorientated, as the lighter forces of spirit Liver > Wind rise to the head. After use, the next day, the Liver has a come > accustomed to external influences controlling its movement and literally > backs off from regulating Qi movement as it expects a third party to do so, > in this case the cannabis. No cannabis use, thereafter, leads to Liver Qi > stagnation. Once cannabis is introduced again, the Liver Qi stagnation > subsides until the next time. The episodes of none cannabis intervention, > cause stagnation, leading to Heat and over a long period of time, a pattern > of empty Heat in the Liver. > > What have other members noticed about drug abuse, especially cannabis, and > its affects on the body? > > Kind regards > > Attilio > > www.chinesedoctor.co.uk <http://www.chinesedoctor.co.uk/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Shanna - you seem to be saying that cannabis is detrimental to people who are really ill. Does that mean you think it has no medicinal properties? Is it more a case of over use that leads to the problems of qi flow? I think there's a lot more to this plant than most of us look to - and like anything, too much is detrimental. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hi Karen That depends on how you define " medicinal properties " . Yes, it has effects with respect to chemo-induced nausea, morning sickness and glaucoma but at what cost? I'm saying that a well crafted Chinese herbal formula is much superior with no side effects and does not endanger one's jing. It's like asking about using high blood pressure pharmaceuticals. Yes they work but at what cost to well being and future health? TCM works just as good if not better in many cases and the gains in health are real and longer lasting. Pot use is only for the moment--it does not cure glaucoma. One has a better chance of permanantly improving their problem with TCM. It's more of a hassle to go find a qualified practitioner, work at getting the formula right and drinking the stinky herbs but your long term results are far superior. I'm more like to vote for a law legalizing recreational use of pot than one which encourages people to use it medicinally. These people obviously have not found a qualified TCM practitioner to help them with their problems. I know of no disease which pot can help that TCM cannot do better. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Shanna Chinese Medicine , <tryfan@o...> wrote: > Shanna - you seem to be saying that cannabis is detrimental > to people who are really ill. Does that mean you think it > has no medicinal properties? Is it more a case of over use > that leads to the problems of qi flow? I think there's a lot > more to this plant than most of us look to - and like > anything, too much is detrimental. > Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hi Shanna, I wasn't, in my last post, referring to the medicinal use of Cannabis. Huo Ma Ren is already used to tonify Yin, especially in patients with constipation. However, now that the subject has been brought up by many members, why wasn't the leaves of the Cannabis plant ever used in TCM? THC is a bronchi-dilator amongst other things. I also believe that short doses of Cannabis can have beneficial emotional and spiritual effects, although extended use will be very much the opposite. I wrote a short paper on Cannabis some years ago, see the files section. As to the side effects of drug use, there a little more complicated than you state. A wonderful paper that delves deeper into the adverse effects of all drugs can be found in the JCM archives. Details below: Given, S. (1997). 'Understanding Addiction According to Traditional Chinese Medicine', Journal of , 54, 12, p1-6. Kind regards Attilio www.chinesedoctor.co.uk <http://www.chinesedoctor.co.uk/> shannahickle [shannahickle] 03 July 2004 18:02 Chinese Medicine Re: Liver - Cannabis Hi Attilio, Strange this subject should come up as the acupuncture group has just concluded a thread in which I was a principle participant. I'll summarize my thoughts and information on the matter here but if you want to read the whole thread go to the acupuncture group and look for the subjects in the last couple of weeks titled " marijuana a great blood/yin tonic " and " ma fen... " It is a spirited discussion between myself and a student of TCM who was " treating " himself with pot and claiming wonderful results with certain " side effects " . According to one of my teachers Dr. Jamie Wu Qian-Zhi, all addictive substances, as you said, move qi to give a temporary feeling of wellbeing. The problem is that they do this at the expense of vital substances--qi, jing and shen--in the long run. Think the coke binger who feels emotionally wonderful and quite energetic during use and then " like being run over by truck " the next days. Marijuana in particular according to Wu, releases and makes available essence (hence the high energy, motivation, wisdom and creativity which seem to available to the user during the high) which is then dissipated as it powerfully moves the qi in the short run. Then the person experiences the textbook aftereffects of dull, spacey mind,lack of motivation, weakness, irritability until they use again. Long term use even contributes to gynecomastia, low sperm count/motility, lowered libido in men (though libido is increased during the high). I had a patient with acute Lin Syndrome once who was a regular pot smoker and reported extreme exacerbation of symptoms of weakness and urinary disturbance with only one puff of the smoke. He was absolutely unable to use while ill in the Kidney. I really have no problem with otherwise healthy people using pot on occassion recreationally as we do many things which effect our essence and health as a matter of " Joi de vive " . People who are sick, however, and fooling themselves into thinking that pot helps them would do much better to get on a good formula or receive an well crafted acupuncture treatment. Think chemo and glaucoma users-- aren't Chinese Herbs safer and more effective, truly restoring ones health at the root? The effects may be slower to realize but true supplementation is never quick. The key is adherence to the middle path so to speak. To become too obsessed with perfect eating/living can also be detrimental to quality of life and creates judgemental attitudes, self-agrandizing behavior, mental rigidity and qi stagnation. However choose wisely and only use very occassionally should be the rule for anything " bad " for us including alcohol, cigarrettes, chocolate, refined white flour...the list goes on and feels and tastes soooooooooo good!!! Thanks for stimulating a most interesting and important thread. Regards, Shanna Chinese Medicine , " Attilio D'Alberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > Interesting that you talk about the Liver. I've always believed that the > Liver is the gate way for the earthly spirit. A classic example of that is > Xiao Yao Wan - Free the Wanderer patent pills. A happy person will always > have a calm Liver, free from stagnation. The Liver, I believe, balances the > ties of the body to the spirit. Of cause the Liver's emotion is anger, which > blocks the Liver's Qi and ability to regulate the body's movement of Qi. > This is linked to the fact that acceptance of the world around you will not > cause anger and will lead to a happier life. > > I believe that drug abuse, is caused by people wishing to find a short cut > route to the ideal person we believe ourselves to be. Most drugs will > highlight certain qualities, relaxed, energetic, perception, etc. I've > noticed that drug abuse, especially cannabis greatly affects the Liver's > ability to move Qi freely. The 'stoned' feeling felt by users during > cannabis consumption, is an exaggerated form of Liver Qi movement, making > the body feel light and disorientated, as the lighter forces of spirit Liver > Wind rise to the head. After use, the next day, the Liver has a come > accustomed to external influences controlling its movement and literally > backs off from regulating Qi movement as it expects a third party to do so, > in this case the cannabis. No cannabis use, thereafter, leads to Liver Qi > stagnation. Once cannabis is introduced again, the Liver Qi stagnation > subsides until the next time. The episodes of none cannabis intervention, > cause stagnation, leading to Heat and over a long period of time, a pattern > of empty Heat in the Liver. > > What have other members noticed about drug abuse, especially cannabis, and > its affects on the body? > > Kind regards > > Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hi Attilio (and Shanna), I was impressed with Shanna's commentary below here and in her other post regarding cannibis. Attilio, you make a good point about Huo Ma Ren' usage in herbal formulas. It seems to me that herbal formulas are intended to balance, regulate and harmonize homeostasis (qi or programming). This would lead to clarity of consciousness ... rather than altered states. It seems that when you bring up cannibis leaf, you are referring to the pharmacological effects of THC .... which has loads of mind altering capabilities in addition to other pharmacological actions. While I've seen where herbal formulas can mitigate the side effects of Western pharmaceuticals, the best herbalists that I know tend not to use herbal formulas to bring about Western pharmacological effects .... that is to directly (or exogenously) force a tissue action. Bringing about tissue actions through endogenous programming is the beauty of CM, no? I've posted about this before regarding the subtleties of physiological effects versus pharmacological effects. This dynamic or paradigm led to some lively debates that I'd prefer to let rest. But things are cyclical and perhaps they must be revisited from time to time. We almost slipped into this debate with the statins and Hong Qu versus using clinically effective herbal formulas. I think I'll take my answer off the air and simply enjoy whatever lively debate derives. So many excellent minds are joining this list. I'm really enjoying the exchanges. Respectfully, Emmanuel Segmen Hi Shanna, I wasn't, in my last post, referring to the medicinal use of Cannabis. Huo Ma Ren is already used to tonify Yin, especially in patients with constipation. However, now that the subject has been brought up by many members, why wasn't the leaves of the Cannabis plant ever used in TCM? THC is a bronchi-dilator amongst other things. I also believe that short doses of Cannabis can have beneficial emotional and spiritual effects, although extended use will be very much the opposite. I wrote a short paper on Cannabis some years ago, see the files section. As to the side effects of drug use, there a little more complicated than you state. A wonderful paper that delves deeper into the adverse effects of all drugs can be found in the JCM archives. Details below: Given, S. (1997). 'Understanding Addiction According to Traditional Chinese Medicine', Journal of , 54, 12, p1-6. Kind regards Attilio www.chinesedoctor.co.uk <http://www.chinesedoctor.co.uk/> shannahickle [shannahickle] 03 July 2004 18:02 Chinese Medicine Re: Liver - Cannabis Hi Attilio, Strange this subject should come up as the acupuncture group has just concluded a thread in which I was a principle participant. I'll summarize my thoughts and information on the matter here but if you want to read the whole thread go to the acupuncture group and look for the subjects in the last couple of weeks titled " marijuana a great blood/yin tonic " and " ma fen... " It is a spirited discussion between myself and a student of TCM who was " treating " himself with pot and claiming wonderful results with certain " side effects " . According to one of my teachers Dr. Jamie Wu Qian-Zhi, all addictive substances, as you said, move qi to give a temporary feeling of wellbeing. The problem is that they do this at the expense of vital substances--qi, jing and shen--in the long run. Think the coke binger who feels emotionally wonderful and quite energetic during use and then " like being run over by truck " the next days. Marijuana in particular according to Wu, releases and makes available essence (hence the high energy, motivation, wisdom and creativity which seem to available to the user during the high) which is then dissipated as it powerfully moves the qi in the short run. Then the person experiences the textbook aftereffects of dull, spacey mind,lack of motivation, weakness, irritability until they use again. Long term use even contributes to gynecomastia, low sperm count/motility, lowered libido in men (though libido is increased during the high). I had a patient with acute Lin Syndrome once who was a regular pot smoker and reported extreme exacerbation of symptoms of weakness and urinary disturbance with only one puff of the smoke. He was absolutely unable to use while ill in the Kidney. I really have no problem with otherwise healthy people using pot on occassion recreationally as we do many things which effect our essence and health as a matter of " Joi de vive " . People who are sick, however, and fooling themselves into thinking that pot helps them would do much better to get on a good formula or receive an well crafted acupuncture treatment. Think chemo and glaucoma users-- aren't Chinese Herbs safer and more effective, truly restoring ones health at the root? The effects may be slower to realize but true supplementation is never quick. The key is adherence to the middle path so to speak. To become too obsessed with perfect eating/living can also be detrimental to quality of life and creates judgemental attitudes, self-agrandizing behavior, mental rigidity and qi stagnation. However choose wisely and only use very occassionally should be the rule for anything " bad " for us including alcohol, cigarrettes, chocolate, refined white flour...the list goes on and feels and tastes soooooooooo good!!! Thanks for stimulating a most interesting and important thread. Regards, Shanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hi Dr Keikobad, I'm very much interested in your article. Hopefully you wouldn't mind emailing it to me off-list. It seems that we share a very similar path. I'm fascinated with the Liver, more so than any other organ. I can't see why the Heart is the monarch of the Zangfu, when the Liver plays such a important and often superior role to the other organs. It's interesting that you talk of the Liver and seasons. In the past few years I've noticed that my feelings for the various seasons has been growing stronger and stronger. The feeling rises from the pit of my stomach and is a kind of wounded love. Partly because the seasons change, and its lost yet re-found again, like our incarnations. Perhaps this is because I'm getting older, or perhaps the seasons are changing and will be no more, with global climatic change and I subconsciously feel a lost for them. What I can say is that the moment I'm actively looking forward to Autumn and also Winter (but less so), whilst Spring is a million miles away. I'm contemplate your other thoughts and suggestions regarding the Liver's lobes and get back to you. Kind regards Attilio www.chinesedoctor.co.uk <http://www.chinesedoctor.co.uk/> Dr. Holmes Keikobad [acuheal] 03 July 2004 16:55 Chinese Medicine Re: Liver - Cannabis > Attilio: > Interesting that you talk about the Liver. I've always believed that the > Liver is the gate way for the earthly spirit. A classic example of that is > Xiao Yao Wan - Free the Wanderer patent pills. A happy person will always > have a calm Liver, free from stagnation. The Liver, I believe, balances the > ties of the body to the spirit. > > Which discussion leads, indirectly and perhaps out of line with the current thought, to the intruguiging 41st Difficult issue in Nan Ching: [i am currently crafting an article on the enigma and much of the thinking below comes from it] 'Only the Liver has two lobes. What does that correspond to?' > The Liver, I believe, balances the > ties of the body to the spirit. Of cause the Liver's emotion is anger, which > blocks the Liver's Qi and ability to regulate the body's movement of Qi. > > Which lobe holds anger? Which depression, or anxiety? Which one finally, stagnated to stasis, leads to the unwelcome Corridors of Rage? The R is the larger lobe and occupies the R upper abdominal quadrant. It adjoins the GB channel at the part that it regulates the Dai [GB 26, 27, 28]. It sits athwart the Liver mu, and the SP mu to boot. Importantly it juxtaposes to the K mu, the only one at the ide of the body, in which case, part of the SJ - GB - Dai - Yang Wei ensemble. The L lobe is minuscule, almost an afterthought, a small player in the Wood drama. Or is it? For small is yin, the basis of all yang big. The Sage explains that the early part of Spring has not yet forgotten Winter, and is as yet in it's womb; and the latter part has not yet greeted fully the summer, and is not yet apposed to it. Hence the two lobes. One season is 90 days, all 4 making the 360. Early part would therefore be 45 days, from last day of winter to 45th day of spring, to be termed the " winter-spring " span of Wood Spring; Later part would therefore be 45 days, from 45th day of spring, to the first day of summer, to be termed the " spring - summer " span of Wood Spring. Which part would hold anger? Instantly the thought arises that impressed anger will live in the left, and the expressed, in the right. Extending this perilously fascinating thought, RAGE would arrive when the inherent yin-hold of the smaller L lobe would give way to the mad expressions of the R, large, overwhelming, and entirely oblivious of the harm it causes. [more later] Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hi Attilio - how about this: the Liver does, is the General in Charge of Strategic Planning, very active and important. The Heart, the Emperor, is supposed to be. The character for Heart represents the void. If the Heart is empty, the spirits have a place to live. the most admirable emperors in ancient China (as I understand it) were those who did nothing and the people prospered. Proper ritual (the virtue of the Heart) meant facing the Dao with an empty, still Heart, ready to receive. The spirit of the Liver, the Hun, always follows the Shen, the spirit of the Heart which communicates with/listens to Heaven. The Hun therefore actively brings us information from the Shen - which has/holds the connection to the Dao. Karen ps - if you're starting to fall in love with the seasons, you may be on your way to becoming a Five Element practitioner ;- )! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 [ad continuum, from my manuscript under construction] Of the zang, all are twain except SP, which is of Earth and cannot be particulate. LV is bilobulate, HT is right and left, LU are twain, and so K even when one on the right is no more than the 3 Cavities structured in to an organic shape. As each zang is two, one must be yin in nature and one yang. Of the zang, only two of four carry the awareness of being conscious, in life, love and living; which are LU, and LV. K sleeps and does not wake, and misses out on living life, just as HT wakes, and does not sleep, and foregoes the world of slumber. LU encompasses an awareness of whatever happened at the first breath, and lasts, nominally, till the last. LV on the other hand holds the memory of all lives ever lived, here on Earth, or whatever planet one woke up in, by default. Now the concept of 'past' is as much a creative myth as that of 'future', and if one were to have the luxury of being reckless, or artistic, both being very nearly the same thing, than the LV would be the container of all lives we ever lived, or, remarkably, will ever live in the future, the LU being the station in which we can contemplate what the two states mean.. If I were to run everything together, in a mad attempt at linear thinking, the undoing of better writers than I, and have LU come together with LV in a love-hate relationship, where the former restrains while pretending to train, and ends up the marauder, than all consciousness is bounden by the LU-LV consortium. Thus the yin of LU resides in the left lobe, and the yang in the right. And the yin of LV resides in the left lobe, and the yang in the right. If all consciousness, of the 'now' and the 'then' resides in these orbs, the one must propose some kind of a sequence to how one lives and sleeps in Tennessee, to wake up in Timbuktu. As yin sleeps and yang wakes, the left LU beckoned, and the breath came into the right LU, after which inflation it pervaded to the left LU. In terms of consciousness this would mean: < A non-breathing left LU [sleep segments of this life] > gave way to - < a breathing right lung [waking segments of this life] > - to - < sleeping left lobe of LV [memory of lives lived] > - to - < wakeful right lobe of LV [awareness of lives to be lived in future] >. In terms of somatic landmarking, politely termed surface anatomy, the left lobe of LU would be found to surface, as a qi-line, much as a ley-line, at the hollow of the left shoulder with the deltoid. If some disharmony involves sleep particles of this life, LU 1 and LU 2 on the left will be palpably out of sorts. If some disharmony involves waking particles of this life, LU 1 and LU 2 on the right will be palpably out of sorts. By the same token: If some disharmony involves particles of past lives lived, LV 14 on the left would be palpably out of sorts. If some disharmony involves particles of future lives to come, LV 14 on the right would be palpably out of sorts. Now if this were not mad enough, all this bilateralism leads us to a fatally predictable inference: The left rib cage at the apex, to it's termination in the left 12th half rib, represents the somatic structure to sleep of this life and sleeping past of past lives. Just as the right rib cage at the apex, to it's termination in the right 12th half rib, represents the somatic structure to wakeful days of this life and sleeping part of the lives which are to happen in the future. [in next whatever, we get to have acupuncture points with which we can fiddle with all kinds of lives, this one, a past one which dos not want to go away, or a futuristic in the wings, in short, if you are so inclined, to play God] Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi Karen, Thanks for this, very interesting. Yes, if the Heart is empty, which it should be, then it can hold everything. It is our connection to our higher self. When we follow our Heart we are following our truer selves and our rightful destiny. The Liver is the spirit that governs and drives the actions of the Heart. It's like the organiser or executive whilst the Heart is the chairman. The Kidney is Will or the power house, the workers, the Spleen is the engineering side, busy thinking and working problems out, given to it by the Liver who got it from the Heart. The Lung is like the law, governing all and making sure its in line. It also protects the exterior aspects of the company, the company being us. Kind regards Attilio www.chinesedoctor.co.uk <http://www.chinesedoctor.co.uk/> tryfan [tryfan] 04 July 2004 12:46 Chinese Medicine RE: Liver - Cannabis Hi Attilio - how about this: the Liver does, is the General in Charge of Strategic Planning, very active and important. The Heart, the Emperor, is supposed to be. The character for Heart represents the void. If the Heart is empty, the spirits have a place to live. the most admirable emperors in ancient China (as I understand it) were those who did nothing and the people prospered. Proper ritual (the virtue of the Heart) meant facing the Dao with an empty, still Heart, ready to receive. The spirit of the Liver, the Hun, always follows the Shen, the spirit of the Heart which communicates with/listens to Heaven. The Hun therefore actively brings us information from the Shen - which has/holds the connection to the Dao. Karen ps - if you're starting to fall in love with the seasons, you may be on your way to becoming a Five Element practitioner ;- )! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi Attilio - I agree with everything you said about the spirits of the Officials/systems except I don't believe the Liver governs the Heart. I see the Heart as Emperor doing nothing but being available for communications from Heaven. The Emperor needs, therefore, a 'staff' to run the country/body. That's where the rest of what you said falls in. But I don't think anything should govern/lead the Heart - that's when we get into trouble, when the Heart is led by something instead of just being. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 [continuing from previous post] No organ has more lobes that the LV, and by that virtue none has generated never ending controversies over centuries than Orbus Hepaticus. Case in point. At last count circa 1510 it seemed to have 7 lobes, whereas contemporary reportage says it has in fact 8. Did we grow an extra one along the way over last 500 years? Chang shih-hsien, comenting on the 41st Difficult Issue Nan Ching: " The LV has a total of seven lobes. Here the text speaks of two lobes. That is because the three lobes on the left contitute one lobe, and the four lobes on thr right constitute one lobe " . [1] Campus Program.com - a reference library hosting an encyclopedia: " Functional lobes are divided along the line of the inferior vena cava. Each half is supplied by a different division of an artery. These functional lobes are further divided into segments, four on each, giving a total of eight numbered segments of the liver " . [2] In terms of the Art of Numbers, 7 denotes Neptune, a somewhat forgetful older man with a picturesque beard who stands in th middle of the Atlantic catching a cold. By an older interpretation 7 also denotes the Seven Seas, and here the icon is a fierce woman sitting stalwart on a wind strewn rock mid-ocean, and you don't want to tangle with her. By yet another interpretation, 7 also is the number for wizards of the seconday sort hwo mess about with the occult, which sooner or late tends to past lives. The number 8 is something one hsould give wide berth to, if one is Occidental. It is the last of all known numbers, and signifies, transitions in life, and most decidely tend to lives other than this. 7 and 8. The Occult and the Unseen. Coming to the ethereal soul. The ethereal soul? What in the world can that mean, considering one has never seen a sol of any sort, and would not recognize one if one ran into one on Wilshire and 57 th in downtown LA. Something has to be done about Occidentals coming up with Oriental tranlations. Ethereal? As in surreal? Constituted of ether, as in chloroform and nitrous oxide, they gas you to extintion in case you decide to stay after your your 100 th birthday? What can past lives mean to someone who has no concept of what the present life is made of? Liver hold the memory of past lives. Really! And who is going to confirm this? What if there were no past lives? One can't be in a past life and say clever things in the present. In which case what is said is said on the wings of the Winds, and could be so much blarney with a large potion of presumption. LV needs to flow smoothly, and it does this on blooded feet. LV qi is for the alerge part LV Blood, and LV Blood is largely what K makes for it in the marrow factory. And if 7 to 8 lobes were not bad enough, LV comes up with two clear systems of blood supply, the hepatic artery, and the portal vein. [continued, unless every one falls aspleep] http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/l/li/liver.html Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video. NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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