Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Hi All, I agree that we have to be careful about people describing certain OM techniques or theories as being " classical " , when they could be the product of a fertile imagination. That said, it is ridiculous to demand a classical literary source for everything that is practices in traditional medicine. A great deal of traditional oriental medicine has existed as closely-guarded covert oral knowledge passed down from father to son. There is nothing written down, but it is no less traditional for that. The classical texts that do survive are probably only a fragment of the first 2000 years of disparate views and concepts that we strangely try to homogenise into one school called " TCM " . As for the Seven Dragons possession treatment, there are many practitioners who can attest to both the diagnosis and effectiveness of the treatment, as Stephen McCallan testifies. The sources for Worsley's protocols are explored by Eckman in " In the Footsteps of the Yellow Emperor " which identifies Worsley's source for this as " Master Hsiu " , a classical Chinese practitioner who taught Worsley in the 1960s. Best wishes, Godfrey Bartlett > > > > Jody H and I had the same instructor. My notes show the treatment > came from George Soulie De Morant; > > Can't find it, could you point out where? > > . > > > > Kind of like waking the dragon to attack the negative > energy/spirits/disharmony. I look at it as more healing or nurturing. > > > > This is the concept that I question... I would like to see a chinese > source on this... > > Thanx in advance, > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 I am not concerned here about the clinical efficacy of the Seven Dragons treatment, but how medical information is communicated in our profession. At times, our profession seems like a free for all, where anything goes, and everything is accepted. Clearly, issues of spirit or demon possession are in the history of Chinese medicine, and treatments for these are in, for example, Sun Simiao's Qian Jin Yao Fang. I am more concerned about accurate translation and depiction of concepts in Chinese medicine, If we don't know what 'aggressive energy' means, or what the original Chinese characters or concepts are, or where the " Seven Dragons " comes from, we have only the modern teacher to trust. We have to 'believe', rather than understand. This, my friends, is very poor scholarship. Poor scholarship leads to poor transmission of medicine to future generations of practitioners. Would you study any modern subject, from physics to metaphysics, without clear definitions of terminology? Without sources? How would you then understand the subject matter? Why obscure the core concepts of a system of medicine without explaining them? If you cannot say clearly what seven dragons are, aggressive energy, or possession are in the context of Chinese medicine or the Chinese language, what on earth are you talking about? On Jul 2, 2004, at 5:02 AM, acu_qichina wrote: > As for the Seven Dragons possession treatment, there are many > practitioners who can attest to both the diagnosis and effectiveness > of the treatment, as Stephen McCallan testifies. The sources for > Worsley's protocols are explored by Eckman in " In the Footsteps of the > Yellow Emperor " which identifies Worsley's source for this as " Master > Hsiu " , a classical Chinese practitioner who taught Worsley in the > 1960s. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Chinese Medicine , " acu_qichina " <acu@q...> wrote: > Hi All, > I agree that we have to be careful about people describing certain OM > techniques or theories as being " classical " , when they could be the > product of a fertile imagination. > > That said, it is ridiculous to demand a classical literary source for > everything that is practices in traditional medicine. Just for the record I agree and have never said otherwise... > > As for the Seven Dragons possession treatment, there are many > practitioners who can attest to both the diagnosis and effectiveness > of the treatment, as Stephen McCallan testifies. From my perspective that is completely moot, I could care less if you and others think it works... But on a side note What people think works is always amazing to me... The sources for > Worsley's protocols are explored by Eckman in " In the Footsteps of the > Yellow Emperor " which identifies Worsley's source for this as " Master > Hsiu " , a classical Chinese practitioner who taught Worsley in the 1960s. So I assume you are saying that there is no written record for the dragons treatment in Chinese? And for that matter, no mention of any idea of summoning dragons to disperse the evil written previous to worsley? Are you saying that it completely comes from an oral tradition? Finally for the record, I could care either way, I am just trying to gather information on it's past and history, please no need for people to get defensive. Respectively, -Jason > > Best wishes, > > Godfrey Bartlett > > > > > > > Jody H and I had the same instructor. My notes show the treatment > > came from George Soulie De Morant; > > > > Can't find it, could you point out where? > > > > . > > > > > > Kind of like waking the dragon to attack the negative > > energy/spirits/disharmony. I look at it as more healing or nurturing. > > > > > > > This is the concept that I question... I would like to see a chinese > > source on this... > > > > Thanx in advance, > > > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Chinese Medicine , " " wrote: >> The sources for > > Worsley's protocols are explored by Eckman in " In the Footsteps of the > > Yellow Emperor " which identifies Worsley's source for this as " Master > > Hsiu " , a classical Chinese practitioner who taught Worsley in the 1960s. > > So I assume you are saying that there is no written record for the > dragons treatment in Chinese? And for that matter, no mention of any > idea of summoning dragons to disperse the evil written previous to > worsley? Are you saying that it completely comes from an oral > tradition? Finally for the record, I could care either way, I am just > trying to gather information on it's past and history, please no need > for people to get defensive. > > in the Peter Mole article there is an endnote which mentions a journal article written by Bob Flaws in 1989 in which he writes about the 4 blocks within the larger body of CM. Anybody perchance have the article and can summarize? Or can ask Flaws? Might shed some light on the question. rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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