Guest guest Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Hi Jason, Just wanted to check something... So if I have a patient with a long standing addiction (here to crack). That still relapses, put not very often. So there is an internal and external side to it. Would that be indicated in this case? Would you do alternate the internal dragons and external dragons protocol? That would be of great help if you could let me know. Thanks May On 29/6/04 8:14 pm, " jason davies " <jason wrote: > > > > i think i'm sympathetic to your points here phil - i'm just curious as to what > you're calling 'evil' though ? > if there is that which is greater than our earthly selves, i believe that it > is something which is greater than any concept we may have about 'good' and > 'evil'. i believe that, by definition, it is something which embraces both - > otherwise there is that which lies outside of it. To suggest that is to put > limits on the truth.....it is to divide the world in 2. > to keep this relevant to acupuncture, maybe you know of the treatment protocol > for possession. it is a set of 7 points needled to 'release dragons'. The > dragons are seen as the good guys who one summons with the needles. once > released they go about their job dealing with whatever is possessing the > patient - be that a haunting memory of a past traumatic event, an obsession > about something or someone, voices in ones mind, an outside influence... or > whatever. > this idea of expelling 'evil' influences goes way back to taoist and buddhist > healing traditions. 'expelling' is really only a lay understanding of what is > seen to be taking place. if you look into the spiritual teachings on this what > you find is emphasis on 'conversion' rather than 'expulsion'. in other words > nothing is 'cast out of eden' so to speak, because it's evil. what it needs is > a friendly dragon (which in taoist tradition are usually protectors of the > truth) to point it back to the truth of unity - of all things being embraced > within the truth - 'good' and 'evil' alike. > in that manner, the bit of us that has gone awry is thereby 'converted' back > to a sense of completeness and unity. i put it like this because it is evident > to me that confusion only arises, bad things are only done, when we forget > that we are, from the first, perfect and complete. after all, i only go about > stealing things from other people when i feel like there's something i don't > have. when i know deeply that, in the big picture, i have absolutely > everything i need for this adventure called life, that i lack for nothing, > that there is nothing within me that needs to be cast out, nothing from the > ouside that needs to be imported, why on earth would the idea of stealing > something arise ??? > i think this is what you are saying when you write " If one chooses to live > an evil life, one chooses to turn away from good/God. " > when i know deeply that i am equal and one with all things, a profound peace > settles inside....and within that peace, there is neither absence nor presence > of good and evil. > To return to the possession protocol - goodness knows how it really works - > but my sense is that what goes on whilst the needles are in is that they > somehow give the patient an opportunity to reconnect with that place within > themselves that knows and understands on some level their 'oneness with all > things', however they come to experience or describe it. and when that > opportunity presents itself, all of those bits of us that are getting in the > way - in this case the 'possessors' - kind of get dragged out into the > light..........not so much expelled as reassured that they too have a place > within the scheme of things....they just need to not turn away from that > truth. > for your interest, there are 2 possession protocols. one is to release > 'internal dragons' - to deal with possessions arising from internal > influences. these points are Ren 15 (actually the command point 1/4 cun below > Ren 15), St25, St32, St41. > 'External dragons' are Du 20, Du11, Bl 23, Bl61. > if the patient is ready for this, reactions during treatment can often be > dramatic. > jason ======================================== > Message date : Jun 26 2004, 08:53 PM > From : " " > To : Chinese Medicine > Copy to : > Subject : Hearsay? > Hi Holmes & All, > > I wrote: > But the Spirit lives on and the Spirit in severe pain (in self- > chosen isolation from its Creator) is a terrible concept. > > Holmes replied: > Hearsay? > > (a) (that the Spirit lives on): Those who do not believe, or know this > from personal experience call this hearsay, superstition, > hallucination or nonesense. I do not. > > I, and many of my family and friends, have had many personal > experiences that leave confirm the reality of Spirit independent of > the body to me/us. But I cannot prove this to one who may not be > receptive to the idea. > > (b) (that the Spirit in severe pain (in self-chosen isolation from its > Creator) is a terrible concept ...): Many religions, especially the > Christian religions, believe in good and evil, personified in God and > the Devil. > > Human beings, unless out of control because of psychiatric > conditions, are responsible for their actions. If one chooses to live > an evil life, one chooses to turn away from good/God. That choice > has consequences in the next life. Those who do not believe in a > next life call this hearsay, superstition, hallucination or nonesense. > I do not. > > I believe in (and have had some personal experiences with) Spirit > (human Soul). If human Soul can exist before and after earthly life, I > find it logical to believe in a higher level of Soul (God/Devil, > Angels/Demidevils, etc. > > But belief and science have a great gulf between them. I know that. > No microscope, telescope or scanner has yet seen anything but > natural phenomena. Supernatural, by definition, is beyond the > realm of the natural. > Best regards, > > Email: > > WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland > Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm > > Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man > doing it " > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, > spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being > delivered. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I learned that external dragons were for more recent " stuff " , and internal was for old " stuff " . So for long-standing addiction I would think the root would be old " stuff " . ~Jody On Jun 29, 2004, at 3:11 PM, may wrote: > > Hi Jason, > > > > Just wanted to check something... > So if I have a patient with a long standing addiction (here to > crack). That > still relapses, put not very often. So there is an internal and > external > side to it. > Would that be indicated in this case? > Would you do alternate the internal dragons and external dragons > protocol? > > That would be of great help if you could let me know. > > Thanks > May > > > On 29/6/04 8:14 pm, " jason davies " > <jason > wrote: > > > > > > > > > i think i'm sympathetic to your points here phil - i'm just curious > as to what > > you're calling 'evil' though ? > > if there is that which is greater than our earthly selves, i > believe that it > > is something which is greater than any concept we may have about > 'good' and > > 'evil'. i believe that, by definition, it is something which > embraces both - > > otherwise there is that which lies outside of it. To suggest that > is to put > > limits on the truth.....it is to divide the world in 2. > > to keep this relevant to acupuncture, maybe you know of the > treatment protocol > > for possession. it is a set of 7 points needled to 'release > dragons'. The > > dragons are seen as the good guys who one summons with the needles. > once > > released they go about their job dealing with whatever is > possessing the > > patient - be that a haunting memory of a past traumatic event, an > obsession > > about something or someone, voices in ones mind, an outside > influence... or > > whatever. > > this idea of expelling 'evil' influences goes way back to taoist > and buddhist > > healing traditions. 'expelling' is really only a lay understanding > of what is > > seen to be taking place. if you look into the spiritual teachings > on this what > > you find is emphasis on 'conversion' rather than 'expulsion'. in > other words > > nothing is 'cast out of eden' so to speak, because it's evil. what > it needs is > > a friendly dragon (which in taoist tradition are usually protectors > of the > > truth) to point it back to the truth of unity - of all things being > embraced > > within the truth - 'good' and 'evil' alike. > > in that manner, the bit of us that has gone awry is thereby > 'converted' back > > to a sense of completeness and unity. i put it like this because it > is evident > > to me that confusion only arises, bad things are only done, when we > forget > > that we are, from the first, perfect and complete. after all, i > only go about > > stealing things from other people when i feel like there's > something i don't > > have. when i know deeply that, in the big picture, i have absolutely > > everything i need for this adventure called life, that i lack for > nothing, > > that there is nothing within me that needs to be cast out, nothing > from the > > ouside that needs to be imported, why on earth would the idea of > stealing > > something arise ??? > > i think this is what you are saying when you write " If one chooses > to live > > an evil life, one chooses to turn away from good/God. " > > when i know deeply that i am equal and one with all things, a > profound peace > > settles inside....and within that peace, there is neither absence > nor presence > > of good and evil. > > To return to the possession protocol - goodness knows how it really > works - > > but my sense is that what goes on whilst the needles are in is that > they > > somehow give the patient an opportunity to reconnect with that > place within > > themselves that knows and understands on some level their 'oneness > with all > > things', however they come to experience or describe it. and when > that > > opportunity presents itself, all of those bits of us that are > getting in the > > way - in this case the 'possessors' - kind of get dragged out into > the > > light..........not so much expelled as reassured that they too have > a place > > within the scheme of things....they just need to not turn away from > that > > truth. > > for your interest, there are 2 possession protocols. one is to > release > > 'internal dragons' - to deal with possessions arising from internal > > influences. these points are Ren 15 (actually the command point 1/4 > cun below > > Ren 15), St25, St32, St41. > > 'External dragons' are Du 20, Du11, Bl 23, Bl61. > > if the patient is ready for this, reactions during treatment can > often be > > dramatic. > > jason > > ======================================== > > Message date : Jun 26 2004, 08:53 PM > > From : " " > > To : Chinese Medicine > > Copy to : > > Subject : Hearsay? > > Hi Holmes & All, > > > > I wrote: > But the Spirit lives on and the Spirit in severe pain > (in self- > > chosen isolation from its Creator) is a terrible concept. > > > > Holmes replied: > Hearsay? > > > > (a) (that the Spirit lives on): Those who do not believe, or know > this > > from personal experience call this hearsay, superstition, > > hallucination or nonesense. I do not. > > > > I, and many of my family and friends, have had many personal > > experiences that leave confirm the reality of Spirit independent of > > the body to me/us. But I cannot prove this to one who may not be > > receptive to the idea. > > > > (b) (that the Spirit in severe pain (in self-chosen isolation from > its > > Creator) is a terrible concept ...): Many religions, especially the > > Christian religions, believe in good and evil, personified in God > and > > the Devil. > > > > Human beings, unless out of control because of psychiatric > > conditions, are responsible for their actions. If one chooses to > live > > an evil life, one chooses to turn away from good/God. That choice > > has consequences in the next life. Those who do not believe in a > > next life call this hearsay, superstition, hallucination or > nonesense. > > I do not. > > > > I believe in (and have had some personal experiences with) Spirit > > (human Soul). If human Soul can exist before and after earthly > life, I > > find it logical to believe in a higher level of Soul (God/Devil, > > Angels/Demidevils, etc. > > > > But belief and science have a great gulf between them. I know that. > > No microscope, telescope or scanner has yet seen anything but > > natural phenomena. Supernatural, by definition, is beyond the > > realm of the natural. > > Best regards, > > > > ======================================== > > Message date : Jun 26 2004, 08:53 PM > > From : " " > > To : Chinese Medicine > > Copy to : > > Subject : Hearsay? > > Hi Holmes & All, > > > > I wrote: > But the Spirit lives on and the Spirit in severe pain > (in self- > > chosen isolation from its Creator) is a terrible concept. > > > > Holmes replied: > Hearsay? > > > > (a) (that the Spirit lives on): Those who do not believe, or know > this > > from personal experience call this hearsay, superstition, > > hallucination or nonesense. I do not. > > > > I, and many of my family and friends, have had many personal > > experiences that leave confirm the reality of Spirit independent of > > the body to me/us. But I cannot prove this to one who may not be > > receptive to the idea. > > > > (b) (that the Spirit in severe pain (in self-chosen isolation from > its > > Creator) is a terrible concept ...): Many religions, especially the > > Christian religions, believe in good and evil, personified in God > and > > the Devil. > > > > Human beings, unless out of control because of psychiatric > > conditions, are responsible for their actions. If one chooses to > live > > an evil life, one chooses to turn away from good/God. That choice > > has consequences in the next life. Those who do not believe in a > > next life call this hearsay, superstition, hallucination or > nonesense. > > I do not. > > > > I believe in (and have had some personal experiences with) Spirit > > (human Soul). If human Soul can exist before and after earthly > life, I > > find it logical to believe in a higher level of Soul (God/Devil, > > Angels/Demidevils, etc. > > > > But belief and science have a great gulf between them. I know that. > > No microscope, telescope or scanner has yet seen anything but > > natural phenomena. Supernatural, by definition, is beyond the > > realm of the natural. > > Best regards, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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