Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 My son has an infection with this bacteria (staphylococcus aureus), and close to the bone to (in his left femur). His response to ekvacillin (kloxacillin) was urticaria, so they replaced this with a combination of klindamycin and rifampicin, this afternoon. If this is not working they have a third alternative: Vancosin. My gut feeling, without no studies to relay on, is ... this is really not very good to him. The risks for problems in liver and kidneys and also for excema and nausea and diarrea exist as a possibility, but also I have heard from many sources, again without the studies to support it, that antibiotics is supressing the symtoms of the bacteria and putting it even furter down into the tissue. In this case it would then go into the bone!! Questions: 1. Anyone who can point to a study or a respected group of people that support this idea of antibiotics putting the problem deeper? 2. Anyone know of an alternative? My homeopath friend recommended Streptoccocinum D30..... but he said also that if it was his own kid, he would be not so sure on how he would decide himself. 3. And any studies that confirm that the alternative you suggest is working? 4. If this was your kid.. What would you do? Warm regards, Holger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Holger, Since I have tried, 4 times in a row, and failed to finish the response before some magic of the computer flashes and made it disappear, I’ll have to be brief before running to my next task. Sorry about that. I just want to share with you a case I did recently. This is a teenager with otherwise good constitution, incurred a Straphylococcus Infection with ~3cm diameter red skin and ~0.6cm opening with yellow/green-ish pus in the occipital area. Tx: Tui Na along Du meridian AP: LI11 (Qu Chi), Du14 (Da Zhui), and local pts to surround the red skin Rx: Huo Xiang, Pei Lan, Qing Hao, Dan Pi, Yin Hua, Lian Qiao, Chi Shao, Fu Ling, Huang Lian, Huang Qin, Shan Zhi Zi, Che Qian Zi, Gan Cao, Bai Hua She She Cao. Every herb is 9g, except 5g for Huang Lian, and 3 g for Gan Cao, all using KPS herbal powder. Take twice a day, 3 g each time. One week after, the opening is completely closed and the pus is completely gone. The red skin area turned closer to normal. Of course, the symptoms and Tx and Rx are specific to this patient but I thought it might give you some inspiration: clear heat and eliminate toxin. (We have a plan to address her compromised immune system issue for longer term but it’s a separate topic.) Hope this helps! Mike L. Holger Wendt <holger.wendt wrote:My son has an infection with this bacteria (staphylococcus aureus), and close to the bone to (in his left femur). His response to ekvacillin (kloxacillin) was urticaria, so they replaced this with a combination of klindamycin and rifampicin, this afternoon. If this is not working they have a third alternative: Vancosin. My gut feeling, without no studies to relay on, is ... this is really not very good to him. The risks for problems in liver and kidneys and also for excema and nausea and diarrea exist as a possibility, but also I have heard from many sources, again without the studies to support it, that antibiotics is supressing the symtoms of the bacteria and putting it even furter down into the tissue. In this case it would then go into the bone!! Questions: 1. Anyone who can point to a study or a respected group of people that support this idea of antibiotics putting the problem deeper? 2. Anyone know of an alternative? My homeopath friend recommended Streptoccocinum D30..... but he said also that if it was his own kid, he would be not so sure on how he would decide himself. 3. And any studies that confirm that the alternative you suggest is working? 4. If this was your kid.. What would you do? Warm regards, Holger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Hi Holger > Can anyone point to a study or a respected group of people that > support this idea of antibiotics putting the problem deeper? I cannot recall seeing papers on that. IMO, if bacteria are sensitive to the antibiotic, it should destroy most of them. There is evidence, however, that small numbers of bacteria can become resistant. They can lie dormant and can multiply later as a strain resistant to that antibiotic. Therefore, if they flare up later, the same antibiotic will have little or no effect on them. I would recommend antibiotic use routinely in serious bacterial infections. However, the main problem, even when they " work " in a given infection, is that they do NOT address the BASIC CAUSE that allowed the bacteria to multiply and become pathogenic. > 2. Anyone know of an alternative? My homeopath recommended > Streptoccocinum D30..... but he said also that if it was his own > kid, he would be not so sure on how he would decide himself. I am not as familiar with the details of homeopathic prescribing as I am with other complementary methods [see below]. But I would have thought that a Staphylococcal nosode would be better than a Streptococcal one in this case. Also consider Silicea, Hepar sulph and Crotalus (?rattlesmake). > 3. Any studies that confirm that the alternative you suggest is > working? There are few studies of complementary methods in serious staphylococcal infections. However, go to Medline at: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=pubmed and search for the following: staphylococc* AND infection AND herb* There are a few papers that sho benefit from herbal medicines, like Angelica dahurica (Baizhi), moxibustion with garlic, etc. See: J Infect Chemother. 2003 Mar;9(1):58-61. Effect of Hochu-ekki-to on asymptomatic MRSA bacteriuria. Nishida S. Department of Urology, Yokohama Seibu Hospital, St Marianna University School of Medicine, 2-16-1 Sugao, Miyamae-ku, Kawasaki 216-8511, Japan. yazniskisla Hochu- ekki-to, a multiple herbal drug which consists of 10 medicinal plants (Astragali radix, Atractylodis lanceae rhizoma, Ginseng radix, Angelicae radix, Bupleuri radix, Zizyphi fructus, Aurantii nobilis pericarpium, Glycyrrhizae radix, Cimicifugae rhizoma, and Zingiberis rhizoma), was administered to 38 patients with asymptomatic methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) bacteriuria, and the effect was evaluated. The patients received Hochu-ekki-to at a daily dose of 7.5 g for at least 24 weeks. As a prognostic nutritional index (PNI), albumin and lymphocytes in the peripheral blood were measured, in addition to urine culture. The results were compared with those in 12 untreated control patients with asymptomatic MRSA bacteriuria. Four of the 38 patients treated with Hochu-ekki-to received antibacterial drugs during the treatment period, and were excluded from the study. Among the 34 eligible patients treated with Hochu-ekki-to, urinary MRSA was eradicated in 12 patients, and the bacterial counts in urine culture decreased to 10(2) CFU/ml or less in 10 patients. In patients treated with Hochu-ekki-to, urinary bacteria were decreased from 10 weeks after treatment compared with the findings in control patients (P < 0.05). PNI improved in all patients compared with the baseline before treatment. It was considered that the biodefense function was recovered via nutritional improvement by the administration of Hochu-ekki-to, and, as a result, MRSA bacteriuria improved. Further investigation would be needed in future. PMID: 12673409 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Zhong Yao Cai. 2000 May;23(5):272-4. [study on the inhibitory activity, in vitro, of baicalein and baicalin against skin fungi and bacteria] [Article in Chinese] Yang D, Hu H, Huang S, Chaumont JP, Millet J. School of Life Sciences, University of Zhougshan, Guangzhou 510275. In this paper, we concentrated in examining, in vitro, the antiseptic activity of the baicalein and baicalin upon the seventeen pathogenic skin fungal and sixteen skin bacterial strains, these two flavonic compounds were known principally as the biosubstances of a traditional Chinese medicinal plant: Scutellaria baicalensis. In agar media, the baicalein possessed potent specific activity against the pathogenic yeasts with MICs of 70-100 micrograms/ml; But in the same condition, no inhibitory effect was observed upon dermatophytes and filamentous imperfect fungi for baicalein, and upon all used strains for baicalin. According to the antibacterial test of baicalein, a high efficacy was achieved against certain causative specie of axillary and foot's odour such as Micrococcus sedentarius, Staphylococcus epidermidis, S. hominis and C. xerosis with a MICs inferior to 250 micrograms/ml. The good inhibitory activity of baicalein could be linked to the group hydroxyl (-OH) in position seven of the molecule. PMID: 12575154 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Zhongguo Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi. 1999 Mar;19(3):170-3. [Experimental study on effect of yishen shengxue tablet in treating aplastic anemia] [Article in Chinese] Zhou A, Wang T, Yang J. Department of Hematology, Xiyuan Hospital, China Academy of TCM, Beijing (100091). OBJECTIVE: To study the mechanism of Yishen Shengxue Tablet (YSSXT) in treating aplastic anemia. METHODS: Observing the effect of YSSXT on hematopoietic, immunologic, anti- infection and body resistance of model mice of aplastic anemia. RESULTS: YSSXT had marked effect of promotion on recovering myleran injury induced reduction of colony forming unit-spleen (CFU-S), colony forming unit-culture (CFU-C), colony forming unit-erythrocyte (CFU-E), markedly promoting the peritoneal macrophage phagocytosis of normal mice, also markedly lower the mortality of Staphylococcus aureus inoculated mice, and elevate the anoxia resistant ability under normal pressure of anoxic mice, prolonging their survival time. CONCLUSION: Using YSSXT to treat aplastic anemia that the effectiveness might be realized through promoting the proliferation of hematopoietic stem cells of bone marrow, enhancing the non-specific immunity, and the anti-infection as well as body resistance. PMID: 11783288 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > 4. If this was your kid.. What would you do? Warm regards, Holger (a) I would use CONVENTIONAL MEDICINE as first-line treatment. (b) If I hear of someone with chronic infections, I advise them ALSO to use complementary methods to boost their immunity: Vitamin E, bioplexed selenium, Immunostimulant herbs, like echinacea, or herbal formulas, like Gegen, Huangqin Huanglian Tang, and acupuncture at the imunostimulant points [LI04, ST36, GV14. For bvone, I would add BL23 + BL11]. My herb notes mention antistaphylococcal activity in many herbs, such as Jiegeng, Jinyinhua, Xuanfuhua and Yejuhua. Other herbs with antistaphylococcal activity include: Aidicha, Baqi, Baimaogen (Imperata), Biba, Bichengqie, Bingpian, Chixiaodou, Chuanjinpi, Chuanxinlian, Congbai, Daxueteng, Fenfangji , Haijinsha, Jianghuang, Jiegeng, Jimu, Jingucao, Jinsitao, Jinyinhua, Laifuzi, Ludou (Mung Bean), Maodongqing, Mengshi, Pipaye, Qianliguang, Qinpi, Shiliupi, Sijiqing, Weilingxian, Wuweizi, Xianrenzhang, Xiaoji (Cephalanoplos Hb), Xiebai (Chives), Xuanfuhua (Inula Fl), Xuchangqing (Rx Cynanchi), Yejuhua (Fl Chrysanthemi), Yidianhong, Yuxingcao (Hb Houttynia), Yuzhu (Rx Polygonati), Zhongjiefeng (Hb Sarcandrae). © A father who has treated his own child may blame himself for the rest of his life if something goes wrong. Therefore, and for other reasons, I would ask someone else (a friend or colleague) to give the complementary treatment in serious cases. (d) Positive thought, prayer and visualisation by family and friends is also worthwhile in many cases. Best regards, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holger wrote: > My son has an infection with this bacteria (staphylococcus aureus), > and close to the bone to (in his left femur). His response to > ekvacillin (kloxacillin) was urticaria, so they replaced this with > a combination of klindamycin and rifampicin, this afternoon. If > this is not working they have a third alternative: Vancosin. My > gut feeling, without no studies to relay on, is ... this is really > not very good to him. The risks for problems in liver and kidneys > and also for excema and nausea and diarrea exist as a possibility, > but also I have heard from many sources, again without the studies > to support it, that antibiotics is supressing the symtoms of the > bacteria and putting it even furter down into the tissue. In this > case it would then go into the bone!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 hello holger, my heart goes out to you, I have four kids. Antibiotics are bad, very bad, will mess with his gut flora majorly and yes could well drive the infection deeper into the bone and generally mess with his immune system. Answers to questions 1 Check out wddty.com (what doctors don't tell you - a great magazine and electronic newsletter) 2+4 If he's old enough (how old is he?)- say 12 or older, as per my oldest two. I would....... Juice-fast him for say 5 days - drink 1 - 2 litres filtered water and 1 - 2 litres freshly pressed fruit AND veg juice take a superfood such as Spirulina at 25 tablets a day in divided doses. All this every day. (this juice-fast business engages top gear in the immune system) take 50 ml. Astragalus Membranaceus(1:5) in divided doses Plus take 20 cloves of garlic, mash with equal quantity, by volume, of olive oil, slather it over his feet up to ankles, put feet into a plastic bag, cover in an old sock and sleep in it. No puny staph aureus will survive that!!! Huh! Seriously, I would be very confident with that program and my kids would do it 3 No studies, most studies are bull.... any way, but my daughter did the above 3-4 years ago for a nasty skin infection, it cleared in 2 days - she was 10 at the time If he's too young to juice-fast then I'd still use Astragalus and garlic mash and add 10 - 20 ml hydrastis canadensis orally, and a Symphytum Officinale poultice topically. Good luck stephen My son has an infection with this bacteria (staphylococcus aureus), and > close to the bone to (in his left femur). His response to ekvacillin > (kloxacillin) was urticaria, so they replaced this with a combination > of klindamycin and rifampicin, this afternoon. If this is not working > they have a third alternative: Vancosin. > > My gut feeling, without no studies to relay on, is ... this is really > not very good to him. The risks for problems in liver and kidneys and > also for excema and nausea and diarrea exist as a possibility, but also > I have heard from many sources, again without the studies to support > it, that antibiotics is supressing the symtoms of the bacteria and > putting it even furter down into the tissue. In this case it would then > go into the bone!! > > Questions: > > 1. Anyone who can point to a study or a respected group of people that > support this idea of antibiotics putting the problem deeper? > > 2. Anyone know of an alternative? My homeopath friend recommended > Streptoccocinum D30..... but he said also that if it was his own kid, > he would be not so sure on how he would decide himself. > > 3. And any studies that confirm that the alternative you suggest is > working? > > 4. If this was your kid.. What would you do? > > Warm regards, > > Holger > > > > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > and adjust accordingly. > > If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being delivered. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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