Tuina-how effective is it?

[Guest guest]

I use Tuina a lot in my practice, almost always with good results. In

addition I discuss with my clients what it was that caused their condition to

begin

with (or at least my idea of it).Then they get " homework " to observe the cicle

of creating of the condition and ways to balance ,or inhibit the process. In

this case the Tuina Tx. addresses the branch and the " homework " deals with the

root. Together this approach brings long lasting results.Alexander Zide.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

I've been having Tuina sessions for some 3-4 months now by a well

qualified and experience and also wonderful blind practitioner, here

in Beijing. It's not for anything really serious, just my very stiff

upper back and neck from using this pc too much, lol. However, I

have a friend (a group member) who had a lot more sessions than I

did, is a Tuina practitioner himself, and has a back problem from an

accident some years ago.

 

Both of us have been to the same practitioner after visiting all the

rest in Beijing, this one was by far the best. In the short term, we

both noticed immediate relief from our symptoms and felt a lot

better. However, after 3 months of treatment, with a Tuina massage

every week, sometimes twice a week, the treatment outcome was the

same, with no further regression of symptoms, although we were a lot

more relaxed, felt well and were comfortable in movement.

 

This has lead me to think as to our beneficial Tuina actually is. Is

it really a stand alone treatment method that can completely treat

disorders by itself, or does it need to be combined with our forms

of healthcare such as acupuncture and herbs to be truly effective?

Does anyone have any personal experience and possible answers?

 

Attilio

 

P.S. Am off to Korea tomorrow to visit family, don't know how much

internet time i'll get.

[Guest guest]

According to my Tuina teacher, it is good in combination with acupuncture

because it takes to much time and energy to do on someone. He taught us to

use acupuncture to relax a muscle and then to use the tuina after the

needles have already done most of the work for you. I feel it is a good

quick fix, but not for long term, kinda like chiropractic and massage.

[attiliodalberto]

Friday, June 18, 2004 10:11 AM

Chinese Medicine

Tuina-how effective is it?

 

 

Hi all,

 

I've been having Tuina sessions for some 3-4 months now by a well

qualified and experience and also wonderful blind practitioner, here

in Beijing. It's not for anything really serious, just my very stiff

upper back and neck from using this pc too much, lol. However, I

have a friend (a group member) who had a lot more sessions than I

did, is a Tuina practitioner himself, and has a back problem from an

accident some years ago.

 

Both of us have been to the same practitioner after visiting all the

rest in Beijing, this one was by far the best. In the short term, we

both noticed immediate relief from our symptoms and felt a lot

better. However, after 3 months of treatment, with a Tuina massage

every week, sometimes twice a week, the treatment outcome was the

same, with no further regression of symptoms, although we were a lot

more relaxed, felt well and were comfortable in movement.

 

This has lead me to think as to our beneficial Tuina actually is. Is

it really a stand alone treatment method that can completely treat

disorders by itself, or does it need to be combined with our forms

of healthcare such as acupuncture and herbs to be truly effective?

Does anyone have any personal experience and possible answers?

 

Attilio

 

P.S. Am off to Korea tomorrow to visit family, don't know how much

internet time i'll get.

 

 

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

spam messages,flame another member or swear.

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Attilio, and all,

 

I have a patient who, when she first came to me, was needle-phobic, and

requested

acupressure only. She had a 27-year history of frequent debilitating migraines.

I

treated her with intensive weekly tui na sessions every week for several months.

She

experienced almost immediate partial relief, which continued to increase until,

perhaps six to eight months later, she was virtually migraine-free. By that

time she

had come to trust me sufficiently that I was able to introduce a few needles

after tui

na; gradually the acupuncture became the dominant modality, though I still do

some

tui na at the beginning of each treatment (and sometimes afterward). She now

sees

me once a month for maintenance/tune-up and occasional minor complaints, but no

longer has migraines.

 

It has been my perception that though she experienced major relief with tui na

only -

and sometimes tui na can be more effective than acupuncture - the introduction

of

needles took her course of treatment to a deeper lever that it would not have

otherwise achieved. She was eventually able to come to terms with and clear up

some

deep-seated issues and imbalances that were associated with the original onset

of

her headaches, and that had adversely affected many aspects of her lifestyle.

The

relative elegance and subtlety of acupuncture evoked in her a proactive,

internal locus

of control that I believe she would not have acquired had the treatments

remained

with tui na alone.

 

Of course she is an exceptionally compliant and self-aware patient; and we had

established an unusual degree of intellectual and spiritual rapport. No two

situations

are alike, so take this case for what it's worth.

 

Simcha

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<attiliodalberto> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I've been having Tuina sessions for some 3-4 months now by a well

> qualified and experience and also wonderful blind practitioner, here

> in Beijing. It's not for anything really serious, just my very stiff

> upper back and neck from using this pc too much, lol. However, I

> have a friend (a group member) who had a lot more sessions than I

> did, is a Tuina practitioner himself, and has a back problem from an

> accident some years ago.

>

> Both of us have been to the same practitioner after visiting all the

> rest in Beijing, this one was by far the best. In the short term, we

> both noticed immediate relief from our symptoms and felt a lot

> better. However, after 3 months of treatment, with a Tuina massage

> every week, sometimes twice a week, the treatment outcome was the

> same, with no further regression of symptoms, although we were a lot

> more relaxed, felt well and were comfortable in movement.

>

> This has lead me to think as to our beneficial Tuina actually is. Is

> it really a stand alone treatment method that can completely treat

> disorders by itself, or does it need to be combined with our forms

> of healthcare such as acupuncture and herbs to be truly effective?

> Does anyone have any personal experience and possible answers?

>

> Attilio

>

> P.S. Am off to Korea tomorrow to visit family, don't know how much

> internet time i'll get.

[Guest guest]

Dear Attilio,

I combine tuina with acupunture.It works better.

regards,

yudono

 

<attiliodalberto wrote:

Hi all,

 

I've been having Tuina sessions for some 3-4 months now by a well

qualified and experience and also wonderful blind practitioner, here

in Beijing. It's not for anything really serious, just my very stiff

upper back and neck from using this pc too much, lol. However, I

have a friend (a group member) who had a lot more sessions than I

did, is a Tuina practitioner himself, and has a back problem from an

accident some years ago.

 

Both of us have been to the same practitioner after visiting all the

rest in Beijing, this one was by far the best. In the short term, we

both noticed immediate relief from our symptoms and felt a lot

better. However, after 3 months of treatment, with a Tuina massage

every week, sometimes twice a week, the treatment outcome was the

same, with no further regression of symptoms, although we were a lot

more relaxed, felt well and were comfortable in movement.

 

This has lead me to think as to our beneficial Tuina actually is. Is

it really a stand alone treatment method that can completely treat

disorders by itself, or does it need to be combined with our forms

of healthcare such as acupuncture and herbs to be truly effective?

Does anyone have any personal experience and possible answers?

 

Attilio

 

P.S. Am off to Korea tomorrow to visit family, don't know how much

internet time i'll get.

 

 

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam

messages,flame another member or swear.

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I do the same thing and it works well.

All my patients are satisfied.

 

yudono

 

simchagottlieb <gottlieb wrote:

Attilio, and all,

 

I have a patient who, when she first came to me, was needle-phobic, and

requested

acupressure only. She had a 27-year history of frequent debilitating migraines.

I

treated her with intensive weekly tui na sessions every week for several months.

She

experienced almost immediate partial relief, which continued to increase until,

perhaps six to eight months later, she was virtually migraine-free. By that

time she

had come to trust me sufficiently that I was able to introduce a few needles

after tui

na; gradually the acupuncture became the dominant modality, though I still do

some

tui na at the beginning of each treatment (and sometimes afterward). She now

sees

me once a month for maintenance/tune-up and occasional minor complaints, but no

longer has migraines.

 

It has been my perception that though she experienced major relief with tui na

only -

and sometimes tui na can be more effective than acupuncture - the introduction

of

needles took her course of treatment to a deeper lever that it would not have

otherwise achieved. She was eventually able to come to terms with and clear up

some

deep-seated issues and imbalances that were associated with the original onset

of

her headaches, and that had adversely affected many aspects of her lifestyle.

The

relative elegance and subtlety of acupuncture evoked in her a proactive,

internal locus

of control that I believe she would not have acquired had the treatments

remained

with tui na alone.

 

Of course she is an exceptionally compliant and self-aware patient; and we had

established an unusual degree of intellectual and spiritual rapport. No two

situations

are alike, so take this case for what it's worth.

 

Simcha

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<attiliodalberto> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I've been having Tuina sessions for some 3-4 months now by a well

> qualified and experience and also wonderful blind practitioner, here

> in Beijing. It's not for anything really serious, just my very stiff

> upper back and neck from using this pc too much, lol. However, I

> have a friend (a group member) who had a lot more sessions than I

> did, is a Tuina practitioner himself, and has a back problem from an

> accident some years ago.

>

> Both of us have been to the same practitioner after visiting all the

> rest in Beijing, this one was by far the best. In the short term, we

> both noticed immediate relief from our symptoms and felt a lot

> better. However, after 3 months of treatment, with a Tuina massage

> every week, sometimes twice a week, the treatment outcome was the

> same, with no further regression of symptoms, although we were a lot

> more relaxed, felt well and were comfortable in movement.

>

> This has lead me to think as to our beneficial Tuina actually is. Is

> it really a stand alone treatment method that can completely treat

> disorders by itself, or does it need to be combined with our forms

> of healthcare such as acupuncture and herbs to be truly effective?

> Does anyone have any personal experience and possible answers?

>

> Attilio

>

> P.S. Am off to Korea tomorrow to visit family, don't know how much

> internet time i'll get.

 

 

 

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam

messages,flame another member or swear.

 

 

http://babel.altavista.com/

 

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Attilio:

> This has lead me to think as to our beneficial Tuina actually is. Is

> it really a stand alone treatment method that can completely treat

> disorders by itself, or does it need to be combined with our forms

> of healthcare such as acupuncture and herbs to be truly effective?

> Does anyone have any personal experience and possible answers?

>

>

 

If the body is asymmetric, no amount of treatment by any system of

intervebtion will assure complete healing.

 

For instance, if the L shoulder is higher, and the R hip therefore more

apposed to the R, the contents and the channel, lymphatic and

vascular systems of R middle warmer directly, and the R upper

and lower warmers indirectly, will run constricted, simply as a result

of compromised hydrodynamics.

 

The middle warmer contents, notably LV and GB, will run stagnation,

in turn upsetting the venous return by the portal circulation, giving rise

to a venous engorgement in the drainage field, and setting up myriad

other flux and ebb patterns.

 

For instance, if one were dealing with a R sided sciatica flux, which

occasionally came to ebb, setting up a chronic, on again-off again

pattern of pain, even the best treatment protocol by tuina or acupuncture

would prove fruitless, because the physical impediment was as yet

unresolved.

 

Conversely, I have found it fruitful to approach this pain as a remote and

secondary result of a very immediate cause, which is basic structural

asymmetry in

the two girdles, the pectoral and the ischial.

 

Notably, when these are righted, and the shoulder, and therefore the hip,

falls level with it's original position, the pain in many cases simply

disappears, without ever being addressed.

 

In which one has treated dire symptomology by never having treated

it at all, the ultimate in nudging the yin to have the yang behave.

 

Then there are the more intangible asymmetries, which are around the

sphenoid, parietal, frontal bones, temporals almost always bearing

the brunt by proxy. These set up vascular and hormonal imbalances

which can create horrendous results.

 

A hypothyroid may not be a hypothyroid, and may not remain a

hypothyroid; just as a chronically fatigued person may be no more than

someone whose adrenals have been exhausted because of a hip

misalignment.

 

After very many years of practice, I find myself tending to dealing with

the asymmetry first once I find it, and then proceeding with conventional

approach.

 

One is always looking for that root treatment which so affects the lowest

tier of qi energetics, that the rest of the system falls into place.

 

I think this work merits a look.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - 15 CEUS by video.

NCCAOM reviewed. Approved in CA & most states.

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio,

 

My family and friends had been using very competent acupuncture for

over 15 years and are now exclusively using Tuina/Qigong with far

superior longer lasting results. This is our experience but the

treatment protocol that is being used by our doctor may be quite

different from the ones that you have tried. Let me briefly outline

the protocol:

 

1) Energize the spine using special pulling technqiues.

2) Clear " cold qi " from the body using medical qigong techniques.

3) Eliminate physical obstructions from the body using very vigorous

(read sometimes very painful) circular tuina rubbing techniques

(mostly with elbow and forearm) and other tuina techniques.

4) Remove " cold " stagnation using vigorous gua sha and cupping techniques.

5) Remove obstructions (stagnation) in the joints using various joint

turning techniques.

6) Remove obstructions in the spine using " spine-opening " techniques.

7) Energize qi flow using medical qigong techniqes.

 

" Intent " is a key element to the protocol. There is nothing really

fancy in the treatment process - but it is in many ways unique because

the combination of modalities applies to all layers of the energetic

body.

 

Additionally, the patient can be easily taught various tuina and

qigong techniques that they can practice on their own so that they are

effectively getting treatments 7 days a week (24 hours a day if they

practice qigong full body breathing techniques).

 

This treatment plan has had very significant effects in both acute and

chronic cases for my family and dozens of our friends. Our use and

need for acupuncture and herbs has pretty much ceased. We only us

certain teas on a daily basis for health reasons or possibly some

patent pills in some acute situations but very rarely. We also go for

a " maintenance " visit now and then because it feels good. :-)

 

Hope this input provides you with some additional information. It

would be interesting to compare this approach with those that you have

been exposed to in China.

 

Best,

Rich

[Guest guest]

Thank you ALL for getting back to me regarding the effectiveness of

Tuina. I agree with those that state it needs to be combined in

order to be completely effective. Alone it is useful up until a

point, and from that point other forms of treatment need to be

introduced.

 

Attilio

 

" Rich " <rfinkelstein@a...> wrote:

> Hi Attilio,

>

> My family and friends had been using very competent acupuncture for

> over 15 years and are now exclusively using Tuina/Qigong with far

> superior longer lasting results. This is our experience but the

> treatment protocol that is being used by our doctor may be quite

> different from the ones that you have tried. Let me briefly outline

> the protocol:

>

> 1) Energize the spine using special pulling technqiues.

> 2) Clear " cold qi " from the body using medical qigong techniques.

> 3) Eliminate physical obstructions from the body using very

vigorous

> (read sometimes very painful) circular tuina rubbing techniques

> (mostly with elbow and forearm) and other tuina techniques.

> 4) Remove " cold " stagnation using vigorous gua sha and cupping

techniques.

> 5) Remove obstructions (stagnation) in the joints using various

joint

> turning techniques.

> 6) Remove obstructions in the spine using " spine-opening "

techniques.

> 7) Energize qi flow using medical qigong techniqes.

>

> " Intent " is a key element to the protocol. There is nothing really

> fancy in the treatment process - but it is in many ways unique

because

> the combination of modalities applies to all layers of the

energetic

> body.

>

> Additionally, the patient can be easily taught various tuina and

> qigong techniques that they can practice on their own so that they

are

> effectively getting treatments 7 days a week (24 hours a day if

they

> practice qigong full body breathing techniques).

>

> This treatment plan has had very significant effects in both acute

and

> chronic cases for my family and dozens of our friends. Our use and

> need for acupuncture and herbs has pretty much ceased. We only us

> certain teas on a daily basis for health reasons or possibly some

> patent pills in some acute situations but very rarely. We also go

for

> a " maintenance " visit now and then because it feels good. :-)

>

> Hope this input provides you with some additional information. It

> would be interesting to compare this approach with those that you

have

> been exposed to in China.

>

> Best,

> Rich