Guest guest Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Hi Holger, I really, really need to stop posting on this topic about my traumatic injury when I slept on the needle (I fear I might be becoming a nuisance!). You had asked if there was a temperature at the site of pain, and I wanted to tell you that it is cold. I know that IC is generally heat, but mine has always been cold (I had IC years before the incident, but had been healed by TCM (eg: moxa on Kidney 3 helped) until this happened). Also, I've tried some of the points that you talked about, and I wanted to ask you a question about them. I use Richard Tan points a lot with great success, but I don't feel like I have a deep understanding of the theory. I've used mirror points along the SI by the elbow and one on the dorsum of the hand at a " ren 4 " location. Actually after I first read your ideas both areas started to throb, aching to be needled! The treatment was helpful. Should I just needle one side, and if so should it be the more achey side (I'm assuming that is correct)? Also, should I use points on the other side to balance the treatment? Dr. Tan often talks in his books about adding points to the other side to balance, but I don't think I understand the theory well. Thanks again for your time! Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Hi Laura .... > and I wanted to tell you that it is cold. Stabbing pain usually is blood stagnation and most often in my experience caused by cold. > I know > that IC is generally heat, but mine has always been cold (I had IC > years before the incident, but had been healed by TCM (eg: moxa on > Kidney 3 helped) until this happened). I must have lost the beginning somewhere. You mean when you slept on the needle? What do you think happened as a result of that? A " vacuity " that invited a patogen factor? And please clarify for me as english is not my first language; what is IC? > Also, I've tried some of the > points that you talked about, and I wanted to ask you a question > about them. I use Richard Tan points a lot with great success, but I > don't feel like I have a deep understanding of the theory. the theories by Tan are always based on a balancing of Yin and Yang as I see it. He balances Tai Yin with Tai yang, hand with foot, anterior with posterior, Shao Yang with Shao Yin eg. and every other possible way of balancing. The legs and arms as mirrors of the abdomen is one way that also connects with the ECIWO idea (look it up on the internet) of a distinct part heving its own embryonic life and therefore also reflecting the whole. By the way a location close to Hegu-LI4 could also be used as the 2nd metacarpal bone is used a lot in ECIWO (wonder if it starts to throb now?) as a reflexion of the whole body (head at the distal end, feet at the proximal end). If so Ren 4 should be located close to that bone, midway between the ends. > I've used > mirror points along the SI by the elbow and one on the dorsum of the > hand at a " ren 4 " location. Actually after I first read your ideas > both areas started to throb, aching to be needled! The treatment was > helpful. Should I just needle one side, and if so should it be the > more achey side (I'm assuming that is correct)? I think so to, more painful is probably a good indication But maybe you can needle both or moxa there > Also, should I use > points on the other side to balance the treatment? Dr. Tan often > talks in his books about adding points to the other side to balance, > but I don't think I understand the theory well. I never read his books, only attended a seminar. But in the case of using the hand as a reflexion of the body, my experience is it is enough to use one hand. Of course you can alternate. > > Thanks again for your time! > > Laura > You are welcome and I enjoy it when you do! Holger > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Hi Holger, If you respond to this post maybe you should email me directly so we don't bother others, my email is: heylaurag So where are you from (you said English isn't your primary language)? This story is really convoluted (in other words, complex and moving in many directions), so I can imagine how hard it would be to follow in a second language! So I will try to be clear: I don't really have " stabbing pain " , I wrote that I slept ON a needle which was in Ren 4, so it was stabbing me at the time that the incident happened. See? I used the word, " Stabbing " so that people would know that I actually slept ON the needle (other practitioners that I have seen have often thought that I just slept through the night with the needle in me, so I was trying to be clear). IC is interstitial cystitis. It is different from a urinary tract infection because there is no infection, but you feel the pain as if you have an infection and you urinate frequently. It is an inflammation of the lining of the bladder. I had this problem when I was 20 years old, but TCM worked to get rid of it. But ever since I slept on the needle it has been back, worse than ever. And every evening during the bladder time I get a coating on the back of my tongue, which I don't have at any other time of the day. The coating on my tongue started after I slept on the needle also. I think that you are right that there is a deficiency and an excess pathogen at the same time. For one thing, I had a dampcold stomach EPI at the time, so I drained the EPI with herbs through my traumatized bladder. I also wonder about blood stagnation from the trauma of sleeping on a needle. The thing that confuses me about this idea of " balancing yin and yang " in Richard Tan is that I then wonder if I need to eg: use a yang point on the other side of the body if I've used a yin point on the other. But I think it just means that I use a paired yang channel point if there is yin channel pain, and vise versa. Right? Thanks for the additional tips. I will try them and let you know how it goes! Laura Chinese Medicine , Holger Wendt <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > Hi Laura > ... > > and I wanted to tell you that it is cold. > Stabbing pain usually is blood stagnation and most often in my > experience caused by cold. > > > I know > > that IC is generally heat, but mine has always been cold (I had IC > > years before the incident, but had been healed by TCM (eg: moxa on > > Kidney 3 helped) until this happened). > I must have lost the beginning somewhere. You mean when you slept on > the needle? > What do you think happened as a result of that? A " vacuity " that > invited a patogen factor? > > And please clarify for me as english is not my first language; what is > IC? > > > Also, I've tried some of the > > points that you talked about, and I wanted to ask you a question > > about them. I use Richard Tan points a lot with great success, but I > > don't feel like I have a deep understanding of the theory. > > the theories by Tan are always based on a balancing of Yin and Yang as > I see it. > He balances Tai Yin with Tai yang, hand with foot, anterior with > posterior, Shao Yang with Shao Yin eg. and every other possible way of > balancing. > > The legs and arms as mirrors of the abdomen is one way that also > connects with the ECIWO idea (look it up on the internet) of a distinct > part heving its own embryonic life and therefore also reflecting the > whole. > > By the way a location close to Hegu-LI4 could also be used as the 2nd > metacarpal bone is used a lot in ECIWO (wonder if it starts to throb > now?) as a reflexion of the whole body (head at the distal end, feet at > the proximal end). If so Ren 4 should be located close to that bone, > midway between the ends. > > > I've used > > mirror points along the SI by the elbow and one on the dorsum of the > > hand at a " ren 4 " location. Actually after I first read your ideas > > both areas started to throb, aching to be needled! The treatment was > > helpful. Should I just needle one side, and if so should it be the > > more achey side (I'm assuming that is correct)? > > I think so to, more painful is probably a good indication > But maybe you can needle both > or moxa there > > > Also, should I use > > points on the other side to balance the treatment? Dr. Tan often > > talks in his books about adding points to the other side to balance, > > but I don't think I understand the theory well. > I never read his books, only attended a seminar. But in the case of > using the hand as a reflexion of the body, my experience is it is > enough to use one hand. Of course you can alternate. > > > > Thanks again for your time! > > > > Laura > > > You are welcome > and I enjoy it when you do! > > Holger > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2004 Report Share Posted June 1, 2004 Hi Laura! Now, now - we need to stick with this topic until we find a cure for you. Your first post mentioned " my old interstitial cystitis " How old? At 02:38 PM 5/31/2004, you wrote: >Hi Holger, > >I really, really need to stop posting on this topic Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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