U.S. sale of ma huang to licensed heatlhcare practitioners

[Guest guest]

On this day 5/27/04 Tony Young, chief counsel of AHPA, stated that you can sell

ma huang in a finished product to licensed healthcare practitioners in the U.S.

if you label the product (according to the Federal Register) stating that it is

" Traditional Asian Medicine " . The label may not say anything about dietary or

herbal supplements in order for this to work. It may not be sold over the

counter in the retail marketplace. It may be sold only through distribution to

or directly to licensed healthcare practitioners.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is very nice.

In order for it to carry any weight.....let's see this clarification from the

FDA published in the Federal Registerand stated as such.

 

When the licensed healthcare practitioner then uses these individual

ingredients or formulates (mixes) such ingredients....how do they in turn label

the

product to their patient as it then becomes retail in the sense of distribution

to the end user? Shall it be legal to simply label it as 'Traditional Asian

Medicine'?

 

And will the FDA formally comment on this also so as to give clear legal

instruction to the licensed healthcare practitioner?

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 5/27/2004 9:27:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

susegmen writes:

On this day 5/27/04 Tony Young, chief counsel of AHPA, stated that you can

sell ma huang in a finished product to licensed healthcare practitioners in the

U.S. if you label the product (according to the Federal Register) stating that

it is " Traditional Asian Medicine " . The label may not say anything about

dietary or herbal supplements in order for this to work. It may not be sold

over

the counter in the retail marketplace. It may be sold only through

distribution to or directly to licensed healthcare practitioners.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel,

 

Is this a direct quote? or is this an interpretation of his statment?

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

> " Emmanuel Segmen " <susegmen

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Traditional Medicine >

> U.S. sale of ma huang to licensed heatlhcare practitioners

>Thu, 27 May 2004 16:16:54 -0700

>

>On this day 5/27/04 Tony Young, chief counsel of AHPA, stated that you can

>sell ma huang in a finished product to licensed healthcare practitioners in

>the U.S. if you label the product (according to the Federal Register)

>stating that it is " Traditional Asian Medicine " . The label may not say

>anything about dietary or herbal supplements in order for this to work. It

>may not be sold over the counter in the retail marketplace. It may be sold

>only through distribution to or directly to licensed healthcare

>practitioners.

>

>Emmanuel Segmen

>

>

[Guest guest]

My reference to Tony Young's comments on ma huang were in relation to finished

and labeled products sold by manufacturer's to practitioners. That's the

context of my post.

 

Regarding ma huang as a crude herb, I have no problems to import this item, to

ship and sell to practitioners and clinics, and I've seen no problems for

practitioners to formulate using ma huang as a crude herb. The relationship of

a practitioner to her patient is not the relationship of a health food store

owner to her retail customers ... though the level of retail of a patient and a

store customer is economically the same. One relationship is quite confidential

and regulated through credentials. The other relationship is quite public and

regulated through labeling.

 

Respectfully and Gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

-

acudoc11

Chinese Medicine

Friday, May 28, 2004 6:31 AM

Re: U.S. sale of ma huang to licensed heatlhcare practitioners

 

 

This is very nice.

In order for it to carry any weight.....let's see this clarification from the

FDA published in the Federal Registerand stated as such.

 

When the licensed healthcare practitioner then uses these individual

ingredients or formulates (mixes) such ingredients....how do they in turn

label the

product to their patient as it then becomes retail in the sense of

distribution

to the end user? Shall it be legal to simply label it as 'Traditional Asian

Medicine'?

 

And will the FDA formally comment on this also so as to give clear legal

instruction to the licensed healthcare practitioner?

 

Richard

 

In a message dated 5/27/2004 9:27:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

susegmen writes:

On this day 5/27/04 Tony Young, chief counsel of AHPA, stated that you can

sell ma huang in a finished product to licensed healthcare practitioners in

the

U.S. if you label the product (according to the Federal Register) stating that

it is " Traditional Asian Medicine " . The label may not say anything about

dietary or herbal supplements in order for this to work. It may not be sold

over

the counter in the retail marketplace. It may be sold only through

distribution to or directly to licensed healthcare practitioners.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam and Rory,

 

It has come to me through industry sources and AHPA that from their

perspective, I have broken a trust by my post on TCM. This is not my

perspective as I was not advised that such information was shared in

confidence. On the contrary it was information offered to all AHPA members.

So I must say that I'm disappointed in their perspective of my actions.

However, I must honor their sensibilities and warn you that contacting

industry sources and AHPA may result in a less than clear and satisfying

exchange. If you should nevertheless decide to proceed, you might point out

to the AHPA and their industry members that as a practitioner and

representative of many such practitioners that clarifications of this sort

are both valuable and important exchanges that should occur between the

realms of industry and the realm of clinical practice.

 

However, I must bow to my relationships within my own cohort and cease and

desist from further commentary on this subject. I will only comment on my

own company's relationship to the world around us and not reference again

the comments of others ... unless with their permission.

 

Respectfully and with apologies,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

-

" Rory Kerr " <rmk

" Emmanuel Segmen " <susegmen

Friday, May 28, 2004 6:56 AM

U.S. sale of ma huang to licensed heatlhcare practitioners

 

 

> At 4:16 PM -0700 5/27/04, Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

> >On this day 5/27/04 Tony Young, chief counsel of AHPA, stated that

> >you can sell ma huang in a finished product to licensed healthcare

> >practitioners in the U.S. if you label the product (according to the

> >Federal Register) stating that it is " Traditional Asian Medicine " .

> >The label may not say anything about dietary or herbal supplements

> >in order for this to work. It may not be sold over the counter in

> >the retail marketplace. It may be sold only through distribution to

> >or directly to licensed healthcare practitioners.

> >

> >Emmanuel Segmen

> --

>

> Hi Emmanuel.

>

> May I have your permission to post your message above to CHA?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Rory

> --

[Guest guest]

Robert,

 

This is unauthorized on my part, and I've offered my apologies both to this

group and to Tony Young. Having said that, Tony Young has contacted me directly

with an offer to make statements that are more specific to this community of

professional people. Of course this does not mean that my statements are false.

I was reporting on a conversation that I was privy to ... based on a policy of

marketing that my industry is engaged in. Do I think that you the users of our

products should be informed on these matters? Yes. Our existence as an

industry is based on your existence as professional utilizers of our products.

 

Clearly I am an academician who was hired to work as general manager of a

company. So sometimes I tend to lead with my ideals and values rather than my

balance sheet. I occasionally get chewed out for this behavior. Such is life.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

-

Robert Chu

Chinese Medicine

Friday, May 28, 2004 9:47 AM

RE: U.S. sale of ma huang to licensed heatlhcare practitioners

 

 

Emmanuel,

 

Is this a direct quote? or is this an interpretation of his statment?

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME

chusauli

 

See my webpages at: http://www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

> " Emmanuel Segmen " <susegmen

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Traditional Medicine >

> U.S. sale of ma huang to licensed heatlhcare practitioners

>Thu, 27 May 2004 16:16:54 -0700

>

>On this day 5/27/04 Tony Young, chief counsel of AHPA, stated that you can

>sell ma huang in a finished product to licensed healthcare practitioners in

>the U.S. if you label the product (according to the Federal Register)

>stating that it is " Traditional Asian Medicine " . The label may not say

>anything about dietary or herbal supplements in order for this to work. It

>may not be sold over the counter in the retail marketplace. It may be sold

>only through distribution to or directly to licensed healthcare

>practitioners.

>

>Emmanuel Segmen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Richard!

 

Well, perhaps they want to keep their options open in case they want to

prosecute someone on a slow news day <s>. Things like this so often end up

getting clarified in the courts. I think many bureaucrats want to be clear,

but are incapable of it.

 

At 09:31 AM 5/28/2004, you wrote:

>This is very nice. In order for it to carry any weight.....let's see this

>clarification from the FDA published in the Federal Register and stated as

>such.

>

>When the licensed healthcare practitioner then uses these individual

>ingredients or formulates (mixes) such ingredients....how do they in turn

>label the product to their patient as it then becomes retail in the sense

>of distribution to the end user? Shall it be legal to simply label it as

>'Traditional Asian Medicine'?

>

>And will the FDA formally comment on this also so as to give clear legal

>instruction to the licensed healthcare practitioner?

>

>Richard

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete

 

It's much more insidious than that.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 5/29/2004 2:46:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, petet

writes:

Hi Richard!

 

Well, perhaps they want to keep their options open in case they want to

prosecute someone on a slow news day .