My experience and some of my thoughts

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

 

Okay, since I get this in digest form twice a day, there is often so much

I'd like to respond to but it's hard to keep organized.

 

So here goes:

 

#1: Re: The conversation on eczema and the theory of toxins " pushing out. "

 

This idea falls under Hering's Law of Cure.. which I know was mentioned a

few days back. Asthma is looked at as eczema of the lungs, in this theory,

and thus healing from lung conditions often involve some kind of skin

disorder. I know in TCM, eczema can have many etiologies as well. I know

this is an issue of much disagreement in the field. I have my own experience

with Hering's Law of Cure that I thought I'd share...

 

I began experiencing migraines at 12. I was given Vicodin. I developed an

ulcer at 16. Tagamet. Vertigo spells, disorientation at 17. No doctor.

Finally escalated to a full-blown grand-mal seizure. Many doctors, hospital,

MRI, EKG, EEG, neurologists. I rejected drug-therapy and just gritted my

teeth and bore it through my early college years. That stopped and I

developed chronic lower right abdominal pain and depression through the

latter half of college. After many trips to the OB-GYN, and finally a

psychologist (recommended to me by the Ob-GYN after being diagnosed with

" polycystic ovarian syndrome " which i was told didn't actually explain my

pain..).. the pain got worse and worse. At the time, I'd like to add, I was

pre-med, hell bent on going to med school. I went to an urgent care clinic

at UCLA that turned me away saying... " your pain is " chronic " make an

appointment, we can't see chronic cases at urgent care. " i was devastated. I

wouldn't have gone to urgent care had the pain not been URGENT! so that was

the final straw that encouraged me to pick up the phone and try an

acupuncturist. I went down a list I'd found on the internet and called the

first one that struck me. She saw me that same day.

 

She listened to what i had to say very carefully. Then told me I was very

sick. and that i would get sicker before i'd get better. She predicted a bad

cold or flu of some kind (it happened within two weeks.. 104 fever) started

me on herbs and acupuncture and a very strict diet cutting out all sugar

including fruit and making sure to eat chicken and fish every day. I

followed this diet completely for at least a year. She asked me to come in

two to three times a week for the first couple of weeks and then tapered me

off to once a week. She encouraged me to take warm baths, walks and take it

easy.. NO STRESS.

 

Here's the bizarre thing. My pain didn't really go away. It got worse. AND I

started experiencing vertigo again. but it was different this time.. and

muscle twitches began. all over my body. my hands began *buzzing*. They felt

hot, electric and tremored. It was so bad i couldn't sleep at night, I tried

to sleep *on* my hands so that they would become numb. I couldn't think, my

brain was fuzzy. I could not put a thought together or hold my short-term

memory.. I would just completely blank. And this was terrible for my work

where I had to teach logical reasoning to law school bound students. I

remember laying awake one night and sobbing and sobbing. Hot flashes were

starting at the bottom of my feet and running up my body to my head and then

back down again. I was sure I was dying. I became hysterical... then

remembered this book i kept in my nightstand. Someone had given it to me and

I hadn't picked it up yet.. it was called Radical Healing by Rudolph

Ballentine, M.D. So I frantically flip through the index looking for

" tremors " or " seizures " or " muscle spasms " .. couldn't find it but my eyes

rested on one word.. detox. So i open the book to the page, and find an

entire chapter. The first question addressed, to my great relief was, how do

i know i'm getting better and not worse? EXACTLY i thought! And this was my

first encounter with Hering's Law of Cure.

 

Illness begins from the bottom of the body and moves to the top.. from

outside, in. And thus healing must move its way outward. And that while

healing, you must go through every stage of your illness backwards. All i

can say is that this struck a cord, and explained my vertigo and inability

to think.

 

Maybe it is true that my acupuncturist's healing plan could have included

ways to minimize these side effects, but I do not blame her in the least. It

took me 20 years of tension, stress, and abysmal eating to get to the point

I was at, how could I expect to be well in two, three, or even 20

treatments? How could I expect a smooth, " trouble " free healing process? My

opinion and experience is that healing is hard work.. both emotionally and

physically. You must let go of patterns that are deeply ingrained. Your body

must release all the memories, and possibly toxins it is holding. Pain from

injury is another story, but chronic illness brought on by a combination of

physical, emotional and spiritual neglect/abuse is deep seated. And it

requires not just acupuncture or herbs, but a total commitment on the part

of the patient to change the behaviors that led to the illness. And that is

what i did. This is the field I'm most fascinated by in TCM.

 

Perhaps too, responding to the comment on LI, SI and Liver needing to be

able to handle the detox.. is it not possible that the body, once prodded,

will want to release everything as quickly as possible? There are many ways

for the body to release toxins.. urination, defecation, but also menstration

and through the skin.. sweating (sweating- even according to TCM!).

 

So where am I now? four years after my first acupuncture treatment and two

years into my own study of TCM?

 

After breaking off a relationship that was not working, monitoring my

nutrition and mental state and beginning martial arts, and thanks in

enormous part to the help of my acupuncturist.. not just for the acupuncture

and herbs she prescribed but the rock of calm and confidence she became and

the new path she introduced to me, the pain disappeared completely. But it

took three and a half years of dilligence. I did in fact experience stomach

pain for a brief while and the headaches appeared as recently as three or

four months ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the side pain is

haunting me a little- a direct result of falling off the nutrition and

emotional balance band wagon. I have been overly stressed and controlling in

my life, with a new relationship that is throwing me into tailspins..

something I am working on as we speak. I look now at the pain as my body's

way of reminding me of the lessons I've learned.

 

We talk about depth of illness in TCM.. Wei, Qi, Ying, Blood.. And we

include release the exterior herbs in some Ying-heat and Blood-heat

formulas, under the assumption, as I understand it, that the heat clearing

herbs will push the heat outward and downward so that the release the

exterior herbs (as well as the downward draining herbs) might vent it (or

drain it) out. Is it not possible that various illnesses find their way to

certain depths in our body and that by releasing the inner most we will can

begin to clear the more superficial layers? I don't think it is so very

different from TCM.

 

Take or leave my experience. I think it may only be really relevant for, as

I said, chronic illness with a strong emotional component.

 

I also wanted to address the idea of WM's approach to illness. I am in

complete agreement that the biological sciences have only hit the tip of the

iceberg when it comes to their chosen methodology.. classifying the primary,

secondary, tertiary, quaternary structure of every single biological

molecule. What fascinates me is that it seems the deeper and deeper the

sciences go, the more questions are raised and the more the theories become

reminiscent of mysticism. Take the much cited Heisenberg Uncertainty

Principle or Quantum Mechanics in general. Advanced physics as well. This is

fascinating trend, as I see it, but ultimately devoid of even the attempt at

a clear and reasoned understanding of the utter complexities in the

interactions of every factor in the system (in medicine's case, the human

body), I doubt, for this reason, that WM will find the answers that are so

desperately needed for chronic illness. Becoming ill takes time and

destructive patterns. How can we expect that a pill or surgery will remedy

this? That is why I respectfully declined a life in western medicine.

 

For these reasons I am totally opposed to the idea of using a term like

Unified medicine. I do not want to unify with western medicine.. Because of

the dogma now prevalent there, I agree with, was it Z'ev? who remarked on

Assimilative medicine. We can Compliment WM, and we are an Alternative to

WM. I am proud to be.

 

Please forgive any ignorance I may have shown. I am young and still have

much to learn and welcome any insight or response.

 

Respectfully,

Nadia

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia!

 

Have you considered that you may have endometriosis? Just reading this,

makes me wonder . . . " the pain disappeared completely. But it took three

and a half years of diligence. I did in fact experience stomach pain for a

brief while and the headaches appeared as recently as three or four months

ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the side pain is haunting

me a little- a direct result of falling off the nutrition and emotional

balance band wagon " . Of course, I am *not* a gynecologist . . .

 

At 03:56 PM 5/11/2004, you wrote:<snip>

thanks in

>enormous part to the help of my acupuncturist.. not just for the acupuncture

>and herbs she prescribed but the rock of calm and confidence she became and

>the new path she introduced to me, the pain disappeared completely. But it

>took three and a half years of dilligence. I did in fact experience stomach

>pain for a brief while and the headaches appeared as recently as three or

>four months ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the side pain is

>haunting me a little- a direct result of falling off the nutrition and

>emotional balance band wagon. I have been overly stressed and controlling in

>my life, with a new relationship that is throwing me into tailspins..

>something I am working on as we speak. I look now at the pain as my body's

>way of reminding me of the lessons I've learned.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

OB/GYN? Work the Liver meridian, in general. Of

course, you must still examine the patient, but LR3,

4,8,and 14 always work wonders in my practice. JG

--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

> Hi Nadia!

>

> Have you considered that you may have endometriosis?

> Just reading this,

> makes me wonder . . . " the pain disappeared

> completely. But it took three

> and a half years of diligence. I did in fact

> experience stomach pain for a

> brief while and the headaches appeared as recently

> as three or four months

> ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the

> side pain is haunting

> me a little- a direct result of falling off the

> nutrition and emotional

> balance band wagon " . Of course, I am *not* a

> gynecologist . . .

>

> At 03:56 PM 5/11/2004, you wrote:<snip>

> thanks in

> >enormous part to the help of my acupuncturist.. not

> just for the acupuncture

> >and herbs she prescribed but the rock of calm and

> confidence she became and

> >the new path she introduced to me, the pain

> disappeared completely. But it

> >took three and a half years of dilligence. I did in

> fact experience stomach

> >pain for a brief while and the headaches appeared

> as recently as three or

> >four months ago. I will say I am in relapse at the

> moment.. the side pain is

> >haunting me a little- a direct result of falling

> off the nutrition and

> >emotional balance band wagon. I have been overly

> stressed and controlling in

> >my life, with a new relationship that is throwing

> me into tailspins..

> >something I am working on as we speak. I look now

> at the pain as my body's

> >way of reminding me of the lessons I've learned.

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'

http://movies./showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete!

 

Yes I have considered that. Ultimately, I guess I don't know how

useful that particular WM diagnosis is. To diagnose it would require

a laproscopy and even then they may not find anything.. And there's

no real solution, WM-wise for endometriosis.

 

I've always thought the most major component CM-wise was the Liver

channel.. the pain is right along that meridian and radiates down my

leg on occasion and up around my liver. Last time I was into the

clinic however I had one of my supervisors trying to convince me

that it was Spleen Qi deficiency at which point I inquired how the

Spleen Qi deficiency was causing the pain. I don't doubt that there

may be Spleen Qi deficiency as a result of Liver overacting on the

Spleen but focusing on the Spleen seemed to defy CM philosophy of

treating the root.. especially given my history and since I am

keenly aware of my emotional state's relevance in the condition. He

was adamant that Gui Pi Tang would be a better formula for me than

Xiao Yao San and went into a long diagrmatic explanation that left

me unconvinced but pondering it. I just feel, given my history...

Migraines (Liver Yang rising quite possibly), Ulcer (liver

overacting on Stomach), Seizures (Overall deficiency causing Liver

wind) and finally lower right abdominal pain (Liver Qi stagnation)

that the underlying cause was Liver.

 

Thanks for the thoughts... :>

 

Respectfully,

Nadia

 

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petet@a...> wrote:

> Hi Nadia!

>

> Have you considered that you may have endometriosis? Just reading

this,

> makes me wonder . . . " the pain disappeared completely. But it

took three

> and a half years of diligence. I did in fact experience stomach

pain for a

> brief while and the headaches appeared as recently as three or

four months

> ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the side pain is

haunting

> me a little- a direct result of falling off the nutrition and

emotional

> balance band wagon " . Of course, I am *not* a gynecologist . . .

>

> At 03:56 PM 5/11/2004, you wrote:<snip>

> thanks in

> >enormous part to the help of my acupuncturist.. not just for the

acupuncture

> >and herbs she prescribed but the rock of calm and confidence she

became and

> >the new path she introduced to me, the pain disappeared

completely. But it

> >took three and a half years of dilligence. I did in fact

experience stomach

> >pain for a brief while and the headaches appeared as recently as

three or

> >four months ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the

side pain is

> >haunting me a little- a direct result of falling off the

nutrition and

> >emotional balance band wagon. I have been overly stressed and

controlling in

> >my life, with a new relationship that is throwing me into

tailspins..

> >something I am working on as we speak. I look now at the pain as

my body's

> >way of reminding me of the lessons I've learned.

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi John!

 

The examination requirement is a limitation of email discussion with list

members. I get the impression that she is associated with a medical school

and will know enough to see someone for an examination.

 

At 11:43 AM 5/12/2004, you wrote:

>OB/GYN? Work the Liver meridian, in general. Of

>course, you must still examine the patient, but LR3,

>4,8,and 14 always work wonders in my practice. JG

>--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

> > Hi Nadia!

> >

> > Have you considered that you may have endometriosis?

> > Just reading this,

> > makes me wonder . . . " the pain disappeared

> > completely. But it took three

> > and a half years of diligence. I did in fact

> > experience stomach pain for a

> > brief while and the headaches appeared as recently

> > as three or four months

> > ago. I will say I am in relapse at the moment.. the

> > side pain is haunting

> > me a little- a direct result of falling off the

> > nutrition and emotional

> > balance band wagon " . Of course, I am *not* a

> > gynecologist . . .

> >

> > At 03:56 PM 5/11/2004, you wrote:<snip>

> > thanks in

> > >enormous part to the help of my acupuncturist.. not

> > just for the acupuncture

> > >and herbs she prescribed but the rock of calm and

> > confidence she became and

> > >the new path she introduced to me, the pain

> > disappeared completely. But it

> > >took three and a half years of dilligence. I did in

> > fact experience stomach

> > >pain for a brief while and the headaches appeared

> > as recently as three or

> > >four months ago. I will say I am in relapse at the

> > moment.. the side pain is

> > >haunting me a little- a direct result of falling

> > off the nutrition and

> > >emotional balance band wagon. I have been overly

> > stressed and controlling in

> > >my life, with a new relationship that is throwing

> > me into tailspins..

> > >something I am working on as we speak. I look now

> > at the pain as my body's

> > >way of reminding me of the lessons I've learned.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Pete

> >

> >

>

Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'

>http://movies./showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia!

 

Sometimes a patient with endometriosis is made better by pregnancy. You

*might* get some clues about it by using contraceptive pills for a few

months, some of these work by creating the same hormonal levels as a

pregnant woman would experience, you'd have to investigate the various

types with that in mind. Of course, the result might be inconclusive, too.

 

I heard of one lady who just about stayed pregnant. She wound up with seven

kids. Her husband was OK with that. Impressive family pictures!

 

At 12:40 PM 5/12/2004, you wrote:

>Hi Pete!

>

>Yes I have considered that. Ultimately, I guess I don't know how

>useful that particular WM diagnosis is. To diagnose it would require

>a laproscopy and even then they may not find anything.. And there's

>no real solution, WM-wise for endometriosis.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete!

 

Forgive me my passion, but you've hit upon a nerve :>

 

No way jose. Yes I have tried birth control pills back when I was

seeing my OB/GYN many years ago. In fact, that is the most common

suggestion made to women who have any type of problem at all that

defies a clear diagnosis. And it did nothing more for me than

regulate my periods... (They also suggested anti-depressants.. the

cure all for women! BC Pills and anti-depressants! Let's put all

women on them and their hysterical unfounded medical complaints will

end!)

 

I was suffering from Amenorhea at the time I was diagnosed with a

last ditch Polycystic ovarian syndrome based on nothing but an

abnormal LH, FSH blood test level - no ultrasound could confirm it,

and the solution? BC Pills! Yay! My message was not intended as a

call for help, as I mentioned I am managing the situation with

exercise, nutrition, occasional acupuncture and herbs when called

for and first and foremost emotional and psychological patterning

readjustment. Actually, the point I was trying to make, albeit it

seems unsucessfully, was that healing is hard work! And doesn't

always happen in the few acupuncture treatments we've been told it

should.. and also, as far as chronic, psychologically triggered

issues, often requires a comprehensive treatment plan involving not

just the acupuncture and herbs, but nutrition, physical activity and

sometimes psychological counseling (whether by " professional " ,

solo " soul " searching, etc.) of some type.

 

As always, I appreciate the thoughts, but having a strong

background in the biological sciences (my bachelors degree is in

biology: neuroscience and behavior), and being an avid student of

all alternative medicine, not the least of which is TCM for which I

will soon be licensed, I shudder at the thought that we would

overlook the actual *causes* of medical complaints despite the fact

that they may defy a clear WM diagnosis. Frankly, WM diagnosis

strike me as, by and large, useless pieces of renaming that do more

to engender fear and helplessness than shed light on the path to

wellness.

 

Kind Regards,

Nadia

 

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petet@a...> wrote:

> Hi Nadia!

>

> Sometimes a patient with endometriosis is made better by

pregnancy. You

> *might* get some clues about it by using contraceptive pills for a

few

> months, some of these work by creating the same hormonal levels as

a

> pregnant woman would experience, you'd have to investigate the

various

> types with that in mind. Of course, the result might be

inconclusive, too.

>

> I heard of one lady who just about stayed pregnant. She wound up

with seven

> kids. Her husband was OK with that. Impressive family pictures!

>

> At 12:40 PM 5/12/2004, you wrote:

> >Hi Pete!

> >

> >Yes I have considered that. Ultimately, I guess I don't know how

> >useful that particular WM diagnosis is. To diagnose it would

require

> >a laproscopy and even then they may not find anything.. And

there's

> >no real solution, WM-wise for endometriosis.

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia!

 

Well, you didn't present the full case then, did you? Without the full

history, you are asking a lot to call for suggestions. What else haven't

you told us?

 

At 03:55 PM 5/13/2004, you wrote:

>Hi Pete!

>

>Forgive me my passion, but you've hit upon a nerve :>

>

>No way jose. Yes I have tried birth control pills back when I was

>seeing my OB/GYN many years ago.

 

Regards,

 

Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete!

 

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world! I never asked for suggestions! :>

I was sharing my experience (The " case " as you call it) that led to

a realization I had about healing! When I asked for " comments " I was

speaking on that realization and the opinions I had expressed on

alternative versus integrative medicine, not comments on how to heal

myself, as I mentioned in both emails on the subject, I am managing

just fine with the treatment plan I have engineered. I'm sorry if

the " case " distracted from my thoughts, as the latter was the point,

and the former the premise on which I had based my thoughts. Thank

you, though..

 

Regards,

Nadia

 

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petet@a...> wrote:

> Hi Nadia!

>

> Well, you didn't present the full case then, did you? Without the

full

> history, you are asking a lot to call for suggestions. What else

haven't

> you told us?

>

> At 03:55 PM 5/13/2004, you wrote:

> >Hi Pete!

> >

> >Forgive me my passion, but you've hit upon a nerve :>

> >

> >No way jose. Yes I have tried birth control pills back when I was

> >seeing my OB/GYN many years ago.

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia!

 

I guess we got caught in the semantic trap - comments, suggestions . . .

 

At 03:31 PM 5/14/2004, you wrote:

 

>Hi Pete!

>

>I feel like I'm in bizzaro world! I never asked for suggestions! :>

>I was sharing my experience (The " case " as you call it) that led to

>a realization I had about healing! When I asked for " comments "

 

Regards,

 

Pete