Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Rich, Do you think Tuina can help with knee pain? I have an elderly patient with knee pain. Her kneecap is placed laterally, so the mechanics of the knee are off. I can only give her temporary relief with acupuncture. Are there any tuina techniques that would be helpful for her? Otherwise, I'm afraid her next option is surgery. Thanks, I appreciate it. Diane Bryson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Take a look at the whole quadracept group,release whatever contractions you find with whichever modality you use,that should allow knee cap to realign,Also you should look at how the foot-ankle-knee-hip is used,are the toes pointing straight forward etc... In other words what causes the misalignment?Without correcting that you will be treating branch without the root, and so the symptoms will most likely come back even if you will get initial improvement.Hope it helps some.Alexander Zide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Im interfering here sorry, but I feel compelled to add my 2 cents worth, all the bones of the human body including knee caps are positioned by the sorrounding ligaments tendons muscles and facia, if the knee capp is 'off' then the structural position is distorted, usually by one or more meridians affecting that particular facia muscle tendon etc., structure which invariably occurs due to long term stress in one or more meridian structures. As always specific diagnosis is required to redress the balance and acupuncture is an unaparallel tool for structural mislalingment. salvador www.meridian-qi-acupuncture.com > Rich, > > Do you think Tuina can help with knee pain? I have an elderly patient with > knee pain. Her kneecap is placed laterally, so the mechanics of the knee are > off. I can only give her temporary relief with acupuncture. Are there any > tuina techniques that would be helpful for her? Otherwise, I'm afraid her next > option is surgery. Thanks, I appreciate it. > Diane Bryson > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 > Do you think Tuina can help with knee pain? I have an elderly patient with > knee pain. Her kneecap is placed laterally, so the mechanics of the > knee are > off. I can only give her temporary relief with acupuncture. Are there any > tuina techniques that would be helpful for her? Otherwise, I'm afraid > her next > option is surgery. Thanks, I appreciate it. This sounds more like Runner's Knee, which is where the patella, instead of moving correctly superiorly and inferiorly as it's supposed to, it's moving laterally when she moves. This often happens to runners (especially those who run on roads or other uneven surfaces). Often this is due to a softening or cracking of the cartilage under the kneecap, or overstretching of the patellar tendon or overstretching of the supporting ligaments. A cause can also be due to an imbalance between the iliotibial band and the medial muscles of the quadriceps and triceps. I'd take a look at her shoes and see how she walks, checking her posture. She may be relying too heavily on using one side of her body when walking, leading to posture deviations. It could also be that she's overpronating the foot (too much rotation on her foot when she walks on it). Remember that the body is a giant set of musculoskeletal hinges that perform a constant balancing act. It could be that there are problems in her back that are causing the quadriceps/triceps of that one leg to shorten through constant tetanic muscle contraction, which would then put extra load on it when she walks on it. She also needs to try to keep the foot elevated and avoid weight-bearing activities on that leg. See if you can get her to wear an athletic knee brace over a period of a week or so and see if that helps reduce the pain. Tui na will certainly help, especially some of massage-like manipulations such as Mo (to improve the tone of the weaker muscles), and passive joint movement. Be sure to make sure that the knee is tracking correctly though. Energetically, IMO, her qi will be encountering a turbulent location in her body and a major blockage will be occuring there because the meridians that pass through there (notably Stomach) are disrupted. Using An manipulations on ST 34, BL 25, BL 26, BL 40 can also help. The biggest problem you will run in to is if the ligaments and tendons are torn or overstretched, as there's no much that can be done to get them to return to their original shape if they're severely damaged. -- Jason Paul McCartan - jasonm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hi Diane, I know of friends who have visited my Chinese doctor and have had their knee problems sucessfully treated with a combination of Tuina and qigong techniques. Basically the protocol is conceptually simple, though I expect it takes lots of practice and experience to execute correctly. I personally do not work on knees since I am still in study. The essential ideas are: 1) Locate areas of stagnated blood and qi. This is usually cold qi (congealed qi) or damp that is either inherited or a manifestation of emotions. 2) Remove the obstructions so that fresh, healthful qi and blood can flow through the body unimpeded - sort of like flushing out a plumbing system. 3) Use vigorous qigong, tuina, gua sha, and cupping techniques to remove obstructions and conjealed qi so that the body can be reinvigorated and healed with a fresh flow of qi and blood. 4) Use pulling and rotating techniques to coax the body parts back to their natural position. Note, there is no thought of " balancing " energies using this approach. The body naturally balances itself once qi and blood is freely flowing. Generally there is lots of blood and qi stagnation existing above the knee (repletion) and lack of energy flow (vacuity) below the knee. This can extend back into the abdomen (hara) region and into the shoulders. Almost always, the spine area is stiff and stagnant and also has to be manipulated. The treatment begins by first moving the " cold qi " in the meridians using qigong intent. The cold qi usually is inherited (parents often experience the same problems) or it may be accumulated from emotional issues. Then the blood and " damp " are manipulated out of the the muscles and sinews using very vigorous Tuina techniques that hurts like craze. Most people learn to understand that the pain is a " release " of the stagnated blood and toxins - though not everyone adjusts. Most feel so much better afterwards (I have done this in my classes) that they come back for more. The pain comes from the stagnated energy and blood which has caused a deterioration in the physical and energetic structures - the way I visualize it is that it is similar to the way lack of water would cause a tree branch to deteriorate and eventually break. The muscles and bones below the knee will also hurt afterwards as new blood and energy flood in areas that have become " brown " from lack of energy. Usually patients are able to right away feel a significan difference - enough to encourage them to further treatments. Often the cold qi or damp is so deep in the muscles and bones that it is necessary to use cupping and gua gua sha techniques. This is also often painful and leave deep purple or black and blue marks where the stagnation is deepest. My doctor uses his experience and senses to locate the areas of obstrcution and releases them. He also uses tuina rotating and pulling techniques to bring the knee back into alignment. Those people who stick with it for a few months find that they are able to avoid surgery. But there are those who chose surgery and inevitably they develop chronic problems in their knee. While I realize this outline is very inadequate and may not be of direct usefulness to your patient, I hope it helps you a bit. Regards, Rich Chinese Medicine , thechidoctor@a... wrote: > Rich, > > Do you think Tuina can help with knee pain? I have an elderly patient with > knee pain. Her kneecap is placed laterally, so the mechanics of the knee are > off. I can only give her temporary relief with acupuncture. Are there any > tuina techniques that would be helpful for her? Otherwise, I'm afraid her next > option is surgery. Thanks, I appreciate it. > Diane Bryson > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 A good job whith acupuncture for the knee dislocazion is to activate the cuople Yin-Yang Qiao throgh BL 62 and KI 6, adding samo other point to strengten this action. Then Tuina on Bladder-Kidney couple meridian. Marvi - " salvador_march " <salvador_march <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:32 PM Re: Tuina > Im interfering here sorry, > > but I feel compelled to add my 2 cents worth, > > all the bones of the human body including knee caps are positioned > by the sorrounding ligaments tendons muscles and facia, if the knee > capp is 'off' then the structural position is distorted, usually by > one or more meridians affecting that particular facia muscle tendon > etc., structure which invariably occurs due to long term stress in > one or more meridian structures. > > As always specific diagnosis is required to redress the balance and > acupuncture is an unaparallel tool for structural mislalingment. > > salvador > www.meridian-qi-acupuncture.com > > > Rich, > > > > Do you think Tuina can help with knee pain? I have an elderly > patient with > > knee pain. Her kneecap is placed laterally, so the mechanics of > the knee are > > off. I can only give her temporary relief with acupuncture. Are > there any > > tuina techniques that would be helpful for her? Otherwise, I'm > afraid her next > > option is surgery. Thanks, I appreciate it. > > Diane Bryson > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.